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Marksmanship only accetable at 75?Follow

#1 Jan 20 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
I'm leveling RNG currently, and plan on going the gun route because Marks merits from THF and COR crossover nicely. Simply put, would I miss E-bow once I switch to HF+1? By miss, I mean a situation in which I'd say, "Damn this gun and its apparently undesirable quality which is holding me back." I'd rather have Sword merits for RDM funsies than Archery merits I'd want as a technicality, but as this is a DD job it gets preference for DD merits.

Also quick rate my gear-esque question, checking if I'm missing anything painfully obvious out of my intended set.
TP Gear wrote:
Main:Mekki (5)
Sub:Rose (9)
Range:HF+1
Ammo:Werewolf killers
Head:Snap+4STR 15Racc MKD
Neck:Faith Torque
Rear:Triumph/Fenrir
Lear:Triumph/Ratt Drone
Body:Snap+Ratt ACP
Hands:CFG
Lring:Rajas (14)
Rring:Augmented Behemoth (0/20 so far, but its coming)
Back:Amemet+1
Waist:Buccaneer's Belt
Legs:Hachiryu Haidate
Feet:Hachiryu Ledelsens (18-19 sTP, either way I'm safe)
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#2 Jan 20 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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As long as you're /Sam you only need Rajas to get a 5-hit setup.
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#3 Jan 20 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
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tertoonetwothreefour wrote:
I'm leveling RNG currently, and plan on going the gun route because Marks merits from THF and COR crossover nicely. Simply put, would I miss E-bow once I switch to HF+1? By miss, I mean a situation in which I'd say, "Damn this gun and its apparently undesirable quality which is holding me back."

I haven't used archery on RNG in over 4 years.
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#4 Jan 20 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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I was all... "wtf are Werewolf Killers? I need to pay more attention to the updates." Then I figured it out. :P

Archery is good for when you need to be faaaar away from the mob, or if it's being kited or whatevz. But really it's not a huge advantage. Just make sure you get an OBow too.
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#5 Jan 20 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
A RNG friend whose opinion actually counts told me he kinda held /SAM and /WAR equal for most events where he can stay out of imminent danger, so long as you didn't need to go with some of the more lame sTP options to make it happen. He definitely mentioned that sometimes being able to nail a mob (thus pulling hate) was just not the best decision, and if you have to fire a couple times while waiting for the moment to be right, /WAR has your back where /SAM just smiles and looks pretty. This is especially the case for medium length fights (longer than the blink of an eye, shorter than pushing dinner plans due to late window pop), where you would just become the tank if you let Slugwindervoke go whenever you could.

He also said on /WAR he kills every other mob in dynamis, and /SAM doesn't pull ahead and make it every fight unless Meditate/Barrage is up. I could kinda see the argument that you can Med > Barrage > Med to WS one or two more times per pull, is that the kind of thing that makes it pull ahead?


I think I paid too much attention to someone arguing for well played RNG/WAR over RNG/NIN back in the day, and now I'm having trouble seeing it any other way x.x;

Lothiriel wrote:
Just make sure you get an OBow too.


Acids or something? Coulda sworn they got resisted... everywhere. I know the merit of debuffing mobs, I just learned that that was for level 70 and under, the sh*t just didn't stick on targets I was handed at 75. SE must have realized how broken Acids are - heaven forbid the THF can contribute by sticking acid, maybe the player base needed a bitch slap to relearn the meaning of TH4.


Lol bawls lightning struck like 50 feet outside my window.

Edited, Jan 20th 2010 10:16am by tertoonetwothreefour
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#6 Jan 20 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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tertoonetwothreefour wrote:
A RNG friend whose opinion actually counts told me he kinda held /SAM and /WAR equal for most events where he can stay out of imminent danger, so long as you didn't need to go with some of the more lame sTP options to make it happen. He definitely mentioned that sometimes being able to nail a mob (thus pulling hate) was just not the best decision, and if you have to fire a couple times while waiting for the moment to be right, /WAR has your back where /SAM just smiles and looks pretty.

This is generally accurate. /SAM's main (offensive) advantage over /WAR is the ability to spam (such as it were) WSes, and if you aren't able to shoot WSes at 100 TP (be it for safety or accuracy reasons), /SAM is basically /NIN with less reliable shadows.

That being said, unless you are perfectly precise with your hate calculation, it's nice to have Seigan+3E in your pocket for when (not if) you eventually do pull hate.

Quote:
He also said on /WAR he kills every other mob in dynamis, and /SAM doesn't pull ahead and make it every fight unless Meditate/Barrage is up.

I'd have to question the effectiveness of the other DDs.

Even as /SAM, it's tough for me to fire a WS every other mob. I hate playing /WAR (or /NIN) in Dynamis specifically because it takes too long to build TP on the other SJs. Plus, it's pretty dangerous for /WAR to open fights with WS, whereas /SAM can open any fight with 3E+WS without worry.

Quote:
Acids or something? Coulda sworn they got resisted... everywhere.

Acids work great in Dynamis, Limbus, most ZNM mobs, sky/sea farming... pretty much anything that's LV85 or lower.

Holy bolts work very well on most of the same, and are actually better on several mobs of note (if your holy effect is more than 21 damage for every 100 points of physical holy bolt damage, holies are more damaging than darksteel).
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#7 Jan 21 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Acids or something? Coulda sworn they got resisted... everywhere.


I'm in lonve with my OBow personally. Pretty much only use the HF+1 for zergs. Acids proc very well on most endgame areas except where you are fighting the HNM level mobs or on wind based mobs. Of course that means ToAU mobs like colibri, puks and mamool are resistant but i never take RNG to those mobs. But in limbus, dynamis, sky farming, Nyzul, I'v had no problem sticking acids frequently.

And holies work well on alot of those mobs too.

And as far as gear goes, with marksmanship I find I get more bang for my buck from S. Kote in the hand slot.
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Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#8 Jan 22 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=7&mid=1161924072301798838&num=121&page=1


Quote:
Hands
S Kote - 1.93% SW, 2.71% SS
CFG - 2.35% SW, 2.22% SS
BFG - 2.58% SW, 2.45% SS

Basically here, the rule of thumb is S Kote for SS and CFG/BFG for SW. However at very High damage S Kote will begin to outdamage CFG on SW, and at very Low damage BFG will outdamage S Kote on SS.


As far as the marksmanship / archery debate, which has raged for years, again i use the school of thought: Best per situation and i go with that. I never leave the house w/o V.Bow, O.bow and HF +1 and appropriate ammo for each. I do alot of events where i cant stay within (prime range) and tend to use my v.bow for those instances. I swap them in and out on a regular basis, always testing and see whats perfroming best at what i'm doing.

Quote:
Feet:Hachiryu Ledelsens (18-19 sTP, either way I'm safe)


Great for marksmanship ws's but i'd still use Scout's socks for tping as youre really only getting +5 racc from hachi.

and if i recall correctly, Scout's belt > Buccaneer's belt for marksmanship as well.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2010 11:38am by Aryden
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#9 Jan 23 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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Reason to tp in att versus acc? seems like a trade off now other DD would make. Also I think having a 5 hit with Hellfire is why /sam is so amazing for me atleast.
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#10 Jan 24 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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/sam is for the tp and minor defensive capabilities, yes its great. However, with trading out the hachi feet, youre trading 5 racc for +10 ratt, thats pretty big for us, considering the amount of racc we get natively ontop of the amount of racc we can stack in other slots that we cant get ratt for or is very difficult to get ratt for. If youre using marksmanship, I think the closest comparison would be CFG/BFG vs S.kote

Quote:
Hands
S Kote - 1.93% SW, 2.71% SS
CFG - 2.35% SW, 2.22% SS
BFG - 2.58% SW, 2.45% SS


This is about as close as i can get w/o running actual numbers, showing that on ws's S.kote > cfg/bfg's for slugshot, given there is a 5 agi difference which would drop the s.kote vs cfg/bfg variance a few tenths of a percent.

Even still, w/o running the actuals, it would stand to reason that Socks would out damage Hachi feet on sidewinder, however on SS, they would most likely parse right next to each other. the bigger trade off is that your per shot dmg will be higher with socks. I would personally tp in socks and maybe ws in hachi feet if using SS. However, most relic rng's i know on my server sold their hachi feet and stick with socks due to the lack of difference hachi feet make.
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Sir CorLeonisX: "Nah, SE will just declare it an exploit to fight him with jobs over 75 since it's not the "proper" way to kill it, and just ban us all instead."

Deadonarrival: "Dart as usual, your post is made of FAIL."
#11 Jan 26 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason you use Hachiryu Feet is for the STP bonus when paired with Hachiryu Haiadate to cover the STP you lose from Skadi.
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