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Job Adjustments and Additions: Part I (10/14/2009) Follow

#27 Oct 14 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Finally, I can solo worms and not worry about too much enmity.
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#28 Oct 14 2009 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Darn my rng just turned 75, pity I did not get to use the updated abilities while lvl'ing. Personally, I love this Velocity Shot update (yeah it irks me when VS wears off just right when I hit WS macro, it happened more than once while lvl'ing). I wish they'd make Unlimited Shot ammo such as PPA like a boomerang in the update (I lost 3).

Hope enmity reduction with Camo and distance big enough that we don't have to hold back shooting or WS.
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#29 Oct 14 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Camouflage adjustment sounds nice, but sounds like it just made stealth shot kinda worthless
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#30 Oct 14 2009 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
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yay my first sub default in years! <3!!!
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#31 Oct 14 2009 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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im still disappointed in that theres no rnc acc buff added to velocity shot to complete the set.
#32 Oct 14 2009 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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yay my first sub default in years! <3!!!



Hail to high enmity.

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#33 Oct 14 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I wish they'd make Unlimited Shot ammo such as PPA like a boomerang in the update (I lost 3).


What they need to do is make it possible for RNG to shoot a PPA while under the effect of Unlimited Shot. After that it should give the empty ammo message on any further attempts if the PPA is still equipped.

This Unlimited Shot update will do nothing to stop people losing their PPA's when fatigued and not paying attention.
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#34 Oct 15 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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What they need to do is make it possible for RNG to shoot a PPA while under the effect of Unlimited Shot. After that it should give the empty ammo message on any further attempts if the PPA is still equipped.


Do you mean make it impossible to shoot PPA unless under the effect of PPA?

Even though it is more restrictive, I agree that I can't think of a strategic situation where you would want to do this--maybe if you were last man standing on AV with a sliver of health left. :P
#35 Oct 15 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Do you mean make it impossible to shoot PPA unless under the effect of Unlimited Shot?


Yeah, that's pretty much what the suggestion is. As in the ability to fire the arrow is a Latent Effect, activated by having Unlimited Shot active. Would save many, many horrible tears of frustration.
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#36 Oct 15 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that's pretty much what the suggestion is. As in the ability to fire the arrow is a Latent Effect, activated by having Unlimited Shot active. Would save many, many horrible tears of frustration.


I actually like this idea. For someone who has been through 4 PPAs and 2 GMBs it would be most welcome XD.
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#37Aryden, Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 10:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) huh? maybe i'm missing something....again, but exactly how did DRG take over as the most accurate DD?
#38 Oct 15 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Really, DRG took over RNG's spot as the "most accurate DD" long ago, so it wouldn't be too mean for RNG to take over DRG's spot as "most hate-free DD", would it?


huh? maybe i'm missing something....again, but exactly how did DRG take over as the most accurate DD?


2-Handed weapon user, A+ Ranked skill, 2 Accuracy Bonuses, WS that doesn't deliberately degrade their ACC.

On top of that, RNG's "Accuracy Bonus" (which iirc was ignoring level differences on Ranged Attacks) was removed (although RNG retains the Accuracy Bonus Job Traits), RNG's strongest WS is capped at 95% Hit Rate at best (due to being single hit), while Penta Thrust and Drakesbane both are multihit (capping at 99.99996875% Hit Rate and 99.999375% Hit Rate, respectively).

I'm not saying RNG is bad. I'm saying that, statistically, DRG is the most accurate DD.

Edit: fixed quotefail

Man, I've had to edit this like 10 times. Lesson: don't post until after the caffeine kicks in.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 11:41am by Aliekber
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#39 Oct 15 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Congrats to the active rangers!
Hopefully this will be a nice adjustment. God knows the rangers of FFXI have waited long enough!

I think it will turn out to be a case of "too little, too late" for me to re-activate my account.

It's interesting to see that SE has noticed rangers need something, but it still seems like they are unsure what exactly rangers that might be.

Personally I feel like rangers really need some improved gear. This coupled with the update might be able to coax me back to the game I gave up over a year ago.

We all know that "endgame" is all about collecting the best piece for each of the 16 slots. Each piece of gear makes the job very slightly more powerful, but the best gear combined with merits, make the character much better at their given job.

I haven't really found any significant gear upgrades for my ranger since sky and that was a very very long time ago.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 11:01am by ANewbForever
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#40 Oct 15 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Aliekber wrote:
On top of that, RNG's "Accuracy Bonus" (which iirc was ignoring level differences on Ranged Attacks) was removed (although RNG retains the Accuracy Bonus Job Traits), RNG's strongest WS is capped at 95% Hit Rate at best (due to being single hit), while Penta Thrust and Drakesbane both are multihit (capping at 0.9999996875% Hit Rate and 0.99999375% Hit Rate, respectively).

So both of DRG's best WS cap at less than 1% hit rate?
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#41 Oct 15 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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redvenomweb wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
On top of that, RNG's "Accuracy Bonus" (which iirc was ignoring level differences on Ranged Attacks) was removed (although RNG retains the Accuracy Bonus Job Traits), RNG's strongest WS is capped at 95% Hit Rate at best (due to being single hit), while Penta Thrust and Drakesbane both are multihit (capping at 0.9999996875% Hit Rate and 0.99999375% Hit Rate, respectively).

So both of DRG's best WS cap at less than 1% hit rate?


I blame the caffiene (or lack thereof)!

Fixing...
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#42 Oct 15 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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yay #2!



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#43 Oct 15 2009 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Sicklove the Prophet wrote:
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Do you mean make it impossible to shoot PPA unless under the effect of Unlimited Shot?


Yeah, that's pretty much what the suggestion is. As in the ability to fire the arrow is a Latent Effect, activated by having Unlimited Shot active. Would save many, many horrible tears of frustration.

It helps, in a way, but doesn't necessarily secure. You still can lose the CP ammo.
You have your TP consumed if GMB/PPA Slugwinder missed. If you forgot to switch out the ammo after that, you still have chance to lose the ammo: i.e you don't swap out the ammo after the 1st connected shot, then you'll lose the ammo on next shot.

Aliekber wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Really, DRG took over RNG's spot as the "most accurate DD" long ago, so it wouldn't be too mean for RNG to take over DRG's spot as "most hate-free DD", would it?


huh? maybe i'm missing something....again, but exactly how did DRG take over as the most accurate DD?


2-Handed weapon user, A+ Ranked skill, 2 Accuracy Bonuses, WS that doesn't deliberately degrade their ACC.

Let me put some real numbers:
RNG Acc bonus IV: +48
DRG Acc bonus II: +30
It only takes +18acc to get the same number of acc as RNG. 80 total DEX is not hard to attain for Lv75 DRG. That's already 20 extra acc (compared to 1-hander or ranged) from 2 hander acc bonus.

milich wrote:
... good update, if the stuff works as intended and isn't too weak.

Which what I was saying on =10.
Of course, I doubt they will give RNG something close to Coronach-like effect

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 12:13pm by VZX
#44 Oct 15 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
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We're not good at meriting? WOW...
We're not good at campaign? WOW.. i die less than mnks/drks/drgs
We're not good at soloing?...Ok well i have to give that one to you, or you could actually use a machine xbow and have a blast pummelling things with darksteel + ascid bolts.


I have 3 75 jobs (RNG, RDM, COR). On two of those jobs I get an invite within minutes up putting up my flag for a meripo. On the other I can wait for hours just like every THF, PUP, DNC out there. All to go blow 50k on ammo if I do get a meripo party. Yes, we are not premium at meripo.

I also gain 2x as much xp in campaign on RDM as I can on RNG and don't waste any ammo. Even my COR gets xp faster in campaign and dies less thanks to joyeuse, /DNC and SAM and DNC rolls. A PLD, NIN and SAM with DNC subs will also outdo a RNG. We might do better than a MNK or DRK but only marginally.

I don't see how this update makes any of those things competitive with many other jobs.

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#45 Oct 15 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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VZX wrote:
Let me put some real numbers:
RNG Acc bonus IV: +48
DRG Acc bonus II: +30

Uhh, what?

Unless DRG's Accuracy Bonus II is completely different from every other 2nd-tier physical bonus (including RNG's Accuracy Bonus II), it should be +22.

+10
+22
+35
+48
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#46 Oct 15 2009 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
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I have 3 75 jobs (RNG, RDM, COR). On two of those jobs I get an invite within minutes up putting up my flag for a meripo. On the other I can wait for hours just like every THF, PUP, DNC out there. All to go blow 50k on ammo if I do get a meripo party. Yes, we are not premium at meripo.

I also gain 2x as much xp in campaign on RDM as I can on RNG and don't waste any ammo. Even my COR gets xp faster in campaign and dies less thanks to joyeuse, /DNC and SAM and DNC rolls. A PLD, NIN and SAM with DNC subs will also outdo a RNG. We might do better than a MNK or DRK but only marginally.

I don't see how this update makes any of those things competitive with many other jobs.


I'm sorry to hear that you dont get those invites, thats, something i dont have to worry about at the moment so i did not take that into account, merely referring to use in meripo.

As for campiagn battles, i was not comparing xp gained vs other jobs, i look at xp gained, death count, and addition to the fight that i do.do not give for comparison, which is not to say rng contributes more.
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#47 Oct 15 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Deboro wrote:
- Camouflage
Rangers with this ability in effect will incur less enmity for ranged attacks. There will be a chance that the ability remains in effect even after a ranged attack, depending on your position relative to your target.

I dont want to dig for the thread but this idea was posted here proably 3-4 months ago before last updates Notes, I think they troll.


I think you mean "lurk" not "troll" and I've been bringing up this idea for years. I got in a forum arguement with someone because they didn;t agree that Ranger should be able to reduce enmity and that the rangers role was "front like melee combat with some ranged attacks"

Oh well, I'm psyched. Now to see if it's actually a potent upgrade or a minor one.
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#48 Oct 15 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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redvenomweb wrote:
VZX wrote:
Let me put some real numbers:
RNG Acc bonus IV: +48
DRG Acc bonus II: +30

Uhh, what?

Unless DRG's Accuracy Bonus II is completely different from every other 2nd-tier physical bonus (including RNG's Accuracy Bonus II), it should be +22.

+10
+22
+35
+48

Yeah, thanks for the fix. No wonder I felt a bit weird when writing the numbers for that post.

Looks like half a year away makes my memory on numbers fade away.
But still, 26 acc extra will be attained with 104 DEX. (normal: 52 acc, 2hander: 78)

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 8:41pm by VZX
#49 Oct 15 2009 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry to hear that you dont get those invites, thats, something i dont have to worry about at the moment so i did not take that into account, merely referring to use in meripo.


Sadly most players are in the role of seeking for meripos. We don't all have similarly game addicted BRD and COR's at our beck and call.
Fortunately I do have 2 jobs that meripo well and can honestly say in the last 2 years I've seen exactly 2 RNG's in a meripo party.

Quote:
As for campiagn battles, i was not comparing xp gained vs other jobs, i look at xp gained, death count, and addition to the fight that i do.do not give for comparison, which is not to say rng contributes more.


The whole purpose of Campaign is to gain xp. Therefore a job that doesn't gain xp as well as others is not good at campaign. That was my original complaint. We are a job that does good damage against kited mobs and can hold out own in a zerg. We are not a top tier meripo, campaign or solo job.

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#50 Oct 15 2009 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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VZX wrote:
But still, 26 acc extra will be attained with 104 DEX. (normal: 52 acc, 2hander: 78)

I still don't think that's a fair comparison. Hume DRG/SAM has 65 base DEX; if you have 104 then you are certainly wearing heavy DEX gear (keep in mind that DRG cannot wear kittypants). I mean, full HQ Hecatomb is only DEX+24; DEX+39 is THF-SA-gearset country.

That being said, if you somehow manage to cram DEX+39 on to your DRG, you won't be wearing a **** of a lot of +ACC. Given that RNG has access to RACC gear that blows away any melee ACC set (RACC+100 is not particularly difficult), the only way that DRG can really touch RNG is with distance penalties.
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#51 Oct 15 2009 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope that the emnity down is powerful enough to allow us to sub warrior or samurai almost all the time while allowing us to eat ranged attack food.


Assuming that the enmity reduction is enough to elevate RNG out of it's current outcast status that will also put Yoichinoyumi and Annihilator in the same category as Ragnarok. The only reason to use the ranged relic WS is reduced enmity. Without that they are only slightly better than the v-bow and Hellfire +1


Quote:

Ranged Attack Adjustments
- Ranged attack enmity
Less enmity will be incurred the further away you are from the target of your ranged attacks.


Because you will miss and thus gain less enmity.


Edited, Oct 16th 2009 3:02am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
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