Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Obligatory pent-up dark knight ideas threadFollow

#1 Aug 16 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Default
**
275 posts
I know, I know, it's another one of 'those threads'. But I've had some thoughts I really like, and I'm curious to hear what others think. I've also tried to internalize the SE mindset of new things with shared recast, since I recall hearing somewhere they're running out of memory for more timers.

First off, the groundwork. A 'Dark Celerity' ability, to lower the recasts of dark magic spells. I know a lot of people say dark magic fast cast, but I think I'd prefer more sizeable recast reductions to that, personally.

On the subject of our magic, then, we get to another idea that certainly isn't groundbreaking, but is oft expressed in vague terms.

Blood Magic
1 min. recast, 5 min.-2 hour duration
Allows the dark knight to cast elemental magic spells with hp instead of mp, at a ratio of 1 hp for every 2 (or perhaps 3?) mp of cost. Grants an amount of magic attack bonus and fast cast that varies with current hp. (more hp = more mab and fast cast)

Another idea I've had forming in the back of my mind is a partner to souleater, and not the 'add mp to your damage' sort most think of. Now, I also think souleater should have its recast reduced to 2-3 minutes or so, since it already has its cost plenty built in. This, then, would share it's recast with souleater and be similar, but more fulltimey.

Bloodlust
3 min. recast, 2 min. duration
Grants the dark knight additional melee attacks and increased Drain potency at a cost of health. Restores health for every enemy felled. This would give the dark knight a 20+/tic damage over time effect while active, in exchange for something like 20-30% double attack, and a 25% or so increase to drain (and maybe aspir, since the two tend to be linked) potency. Would then also restore hp whenever an enemy is killed within 10-20' of you, at least like a cure 4-5, if not outright full heal.

That one might be a bit overpowered as is, not sure, would need to be tested and possibly have the numbers tweaked. Still, I think it would be a good compliment to souleater that would be useful in today's fast paced exping environment. Would also be an option against souleater resistant NMs.

This next one, I'll admit, is a bit of a nod towards my own vision of dark knight, as a mixed DD/tank that plays dangerous games with its hp. All of these so far go along those lines to some extent, but this one is to adress the fact that for a job that gambles with its hp, I kinda think they don't have enough as-is to gamble with.

Deathless Body
5 min. recast, 2 hour duration
Increases max hp at a cost of max mp, This would give a max hp boost in the range of 30-50% or so, preferably enough to put a drk somewhere in the vicinity of a monk of the same race, but would also cut max mp down by about 50% as well. One would think Blood Magic would negate this penalty, but do note- that only applies to elemental magic for this very reason.

I have one last idea, and this one builds on weapon bash. Again, I think that weapon bash should probably have its recast lowered to a minute or so, for a start. Then these two abilities could be added, sharing a recast with weapon bash, but also, and this is why I like this idea, separating scythe and greatsword into somewhat different playstyles.

Reaving Slash
1 minute 30 second-2 minute recast (Longer, if SE really can't wrap their head around why weapon bash doesn't need a 5 minute recast)
Performs a melee attack that drains hp and inflicts a variable potency plague. The lower the dark knight's hp is when they use this attack, the higher the plague potency. Only usable with a scythe.

Crushing Blow
Same recast as Reaving Slash.
Performs a melee attack that stuns the target and inflicts a 10-20 second amnesia effect. Only usable with a greatsword.

I really don't think cutting weapon bash down to a minute or a minute 30 seconds is an unreasonable request. I know we also have stun the spell, but it's hard to argue that more stuns would be broken when blue mages have at least like 15 stuns spells, most of which also do damage, and one of which not only does damage, inflicts reliable stun, is obtained at level 12, and can be used every 12 seconds or so. Besides, thief has sneak attack and trick attack, dragoon has jumps, I never got why weapon bash had to have a 5 minute cooldown.

So yeah, I -think- that was everything I was thinking of, not sure though because I've spent like an hour working on this, might have forgotten something I meant to say. Looking for thoughts/comments/feedback, I figure I'll workshop this here and then send it along to the official suggestion forum once it's been put through the wringer a bit (To be dead, buried, and safely ignored, I know).

Edit: I remember now what it was I was forgetting. Increase Dread Spike's duration from 1 minute to 5. It already has the hp limitation and potentially resists against things that matter, it won't break the game if we can lol at easy prey a bit harder. This would also ease up prediction and make cast time less of an issue.

Edited, Aug 16th 2011 9:00am by VonCrown
#2 Aug 17 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,451 posts
Well for starters that new spell Merton should've been given to DRK, since we're masters of dark magic yet ironically have 0 dark nukes.

Blood Weapon should be a Job Trait that randomly procs. Maybe increase the proc rate with gear, or merits. As far as a new 2 hour, I dunno.

On the topic of WS, Quietus is currently 40% STR/MND, supposedly ignores 10% DEF at 100 TP, 3x damage. The WS could easily be buffed by making it 60% STR, chance to ignore 100% DEF, and/or 4-6x damage. Before people say that's over powered, Ukko's Fury is 60% STR and crit based.

Torcleaver could be made crit-based. I see people talking about it's a decent WS....I've yet to see this first hand from the several people I know with the Empyrean GS. Seems fairly sh*tty over all.

DRK doesn't need much to get back in the game. Just a slightly better WS and a few new tricks.

Edited, Aug 17th 2011 2:06pm by Hexagram
#3 Aug 17 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,238 posts
Hexagram wrote:
Well for starters that new spell Merton should've been given to DRK, since we're masters of dark magic yet ironically have 0 dark nukes.

The new SCH spell is used with their 2-hour, dingus.
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#4 Aug 17 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,451 posts
Raelix wrote:

The new SCH spell is used with their 2-hour, dingus.


No sh*t. What kind of ****** logic is this? I said, it should've been given to DRK. The fact that it wasn't, or how SCH uses it, has nothing to do with what I said. Which is, DRK needs a dark-based nuke.
#5 Aug 17 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,238 posts
I suppose DRK should be able to cast it with a 10 second recast for just 12 mp then too?

You can say "DRK need dark-based nukes" instead of "DRK should get that spell just because we do the Dark Magic stuff and SCH's 2-hour should stay worthless."
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#6 Aug 17 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
5,684 posts
I hear drain is a decent nuke, haven't tried it myself yet though.
____________________________
Signature starts here.
#7 Aug 17 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
**
275 posts
Quote:
I hear drain is a decent nuke, haven't tried it myself yet though.

I chuckled a bit, I admit.

Drain is pretty good for its mp cost, but I wouldn't say it really fills much of a role as a nuke. ****, even drain 2 needs nether void to reach what I would consider 'a decent nuke'.

You know, all this talk of drks, nuking, and things that scholar got remind me of another rant I've been storing for a really long time. Did you all know that back when dark knight came out, before NA release, Dark Knight nukes had a point? That it wasn't completely pathetic that drk only got tier 1/2 nukes? (Probably only tier 1, I think this was at the 50 cap before AF came out)

Prepare to have your minds blown.

Long, long ago, in a distant age, before the patch that introduced magic bursts, dark knights used their nukes. You see, before magic bursts were added to the game, all spells skillchained, all the time. That's right folks, dark knight was the original solo skillchain job. Sure samurai had their two hour, but dark knights were skillchaining all over everything's faces, and it was as simple as nuke, weaponskill, profit. No chain affinity timers, no saving 200% tp and waiting for sekkanoki, no automaton AI hassle.

Then magic bursting came, and with it, the days of freeze macros that told the melee's when to weaponskill, and all of that. But the ones most left out in the cold were dark knights. Even to this dahy, some echo the call of 'you have small nukes so you can magic burst off skillchains you participate in'. Small comfort when the nukes are so bad, there's no reason to bother trying.

And yet, SE has yet to acknowledge that the dark knight nukes are the most stupidly pointless bit of spell list padding you'll find in this game. It's downright shameful that we're only now, at level 90, in the midst of nukes black mages get in their 60's, and rdms their 70s. Not that we'd have enough mp or magic attack bonus to do anything meaningful with higher tier nukes, of course.

Anyways, there is a point to this rambling. I don't think enough people know -why- dark knights had nukes in the first place. ****, I'm not sure even the current development team knows. I want this information to spead, for people to know about this. I think if SE considered all that, they could take a step back and see things the way we do. That no amount of occult acumen or magic damage boosting job abilities are going to make up for the fact that these nukes take up half our mp, and we HIT THINGS harder, faster, and for more reliable TP gain than these nukes offer. We could have literally infinite MP and it wouldn't matter, our melee will still be better than these crappy nukes.

For nukes to matter, the entire current progression has to be torn down and re-built. The paradigm that made drk nuking relevant is LONG gone, and that aspect of the job has to be re-made from scratch to have any meaning at all. Or at least, acknowledge it as pointless, and stop holding the job back because of it.

A final note, yes, when I came back from a 6 month break and found out while I was gone they gave scholars the ability to skillchain with nukes, I raged. Hard. F$%k merton, give dark knights immanence.
#8 Aug 18 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
785 posts
**** nukes

I dont wanna nuke I wanna beat **** with a stick, and I want magic that makes it easier to beat **** with a stick
#9 Aug 18 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
**
275 posts
Quote:
@#%^ nukes

I dont wanna nuke I wanna beat sh*t with a stick, and I want magic that makes it easier to beat sh*t with a stick


I would agree, on the whole, but the fact is that they are -there-, and are thus factoring into whatever insane balance calculations the Devs are doing regarding drk. That and the -vast- majority of the idea SE are putting forward are various tradeoffs to increase nuke damage, we really need to drive the point home that drks nukes were initially balanced around a system that no longer exists, so if they want to give us buffs to them, instead of, you know, useful things like beating sh*t with a stick, we should try our best to get them to at least address the underlying reasons -why- our nukes are so worthless, namely and in descending order of importance

1. Crap nuke tiers that we're getting 20-30 levels too late
2. Not enough mp to really let loose with
3. Lack of native magic attack bonus

Now, it seems more and more like all they're really looking to address is number 3, which alone still won't make our nukes worthwhile. And worthwhile or not, our nukes are always gonna be a big part of the reason we don't get nice things like Ukko's fury.
#10 Aug 18 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
5,684 posts
If I got a single elemental nuke that was instant-cast, cost 500mp, had a 1min recast, and did 2500 dmg, I'd be happy.
____________________________
Signature starts here.
#11 Aug 18 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
785 posts
Summoners have spirits and they are useless, and what Summoner in their right mind would actually WANT to use spirits, thats how I feel about nukes on DRK, let them stay useless, ramp up the usefulness of our dark magic be it enfeebles or supplements to our melee capabilities, and quietly forget that we even have nukes in our spell list
#12 Aug 18 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
785 posts
also I'm pretty sure the DRK community has managed to already convince SE that we don't want to touch elemental spells/WSs after they posted that manifesto, looking at the newer DRK post they talk about only one thing that would increase spell damage, and it would increase melee and spell
#13 Aug 18 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,451 posts
New DRK info straight from the Devs:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11544-DRK-Adjustments-via-Manifesto?p=172904&viewfull=1#post172904

Quote:
Based on everyone’s feedback, we will be making the below adjustments during the upcoming version update.

Readily Rearm* Lv95
Converts damage received into attack power and magic attack power.

Absorb-ATB* (absorb attributes) DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Additional magic that can be learned:

Blizzard III DRK Lv92
Break DRK Lv95

We tested it out…
Readily Rearm*
 →After taking approximately half of your current HP in damage, your damage output increase by over 20%!
  (This is also reflected in weapon skills it seems)
  Additionally, while under the effects there is no decay over time)

Absorb-ATB* (Absorb attributes)
 →Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

Just in case, we confirmed with the lead dev. once more and he said that they are finalizing the adjustments, but as long as there are no major problems it will be implemented as stated. Yay!

(*Please note that names and descriptions are under development and are subject to change.)
#14 Aug 19 2011 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
**
275 posts
Still think tier 4 nukes and the ability to cast them for hp instead of mp would go nicely with what they have planned. Or maybe comet at 99 + blood magic at some point or another.

Edit- Also, Re: Point about summoners, spirits may not be super-useful, but they have a point and get used ever for things other than lulz. Elemental syphon says hi. Also, balancingwise, summoner doesn't really seem to lose a lot by having spirits, as there's little to put them next to and say 'Well, because summoner has spirits and that doesn't, we need to make summoner worse at something else'. I think that comparative mindset is at the root of a lot of the problems drks have from the devs. We do things that a war can't, therefore we can't melee DD quite as hard, is the goal on paper. And I still say if we're gonna be hamstrung by having nukes, then they should at least be at a point where they serve some sort of a purpose. I don't give a sh*t whether you specifically wanna nuke or not. If nothing else, a way to nuke with hp would be a way to drop some health fast for rearm.

Edited, Aug 19th 2011 8:29am by VonCrown
#15 Aug 19 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
5,684 posts
For elemental nukes, I really liked what SE suggested as a JA:
Quote:
Add a job trait that raises magic attack.
We are looking into implementing an ability that converts a large amount of MP into increased magic attack. When using this you will also receive a stronger Occult Acumen effect.
I would not mind dumping most of my mp simply for 50tp and bonus damage. DRK elemental nukes will never be relevant in a fast paced setting, but sometimes, I find myself just sitting back and watching to limit TP gain. This would be the perfect setting for such a JA.

Of course, I definitely should not get my hopes up and just expect another series of worthless job updates. It's always the safest bet with SE.
____________________________
Signature starts here.
#16 Aug 19 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
**
275 posts
I just don't think that's a terribly practical solution. Even if it did dump all your mp, you wouldn;t get 50 tp. 30-40, and that's if it dumps all your mp. Which it won't. For occult acumen to be worthwhile, it either needs it's entire calculations to be changed so as to not be mp-cost dependant, or drk needs more mp, or a way to sidestep their small mp pools. These are all things I already considered in my original post.
#17 Aug 19 2011 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
****
6,238 posts
Quote:
Break (DRK Lv. 95)

****, now I'll actually have to skill Enfeebling.
____________________________
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

Nilatai wrote:
Vlorsutes wrote:
There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?
#18 Aug 20 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
**
275 posts
Quote:
@#%^, now I'll actually have to skill Enfeebling.


Ehh, I don't see us using it significantly more than sleep or bind. If you needed to use those often, you'd already have enfeebling skilled, if not, you probably won't use break very often either.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (17)