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41,355 posts

Nilatai wrote:

I picked up a Haub +1 for 200k on my server.

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

41,355 posts

I'd call you Mitchell, and imagine you to be Joe Don Baker.

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

Scholar

2,227 posts

Raelix wrote:

I'd have way more inventory space if I didn't have this wicked collection.

The only moghouse furniture I'll ever want is some kind of weapon rack to display six at a time... I'd need three XD

*Edited, Oct 8th 2012 2:10am by Raelix *

The only moghouse furniture I'll ever want is some kind of weapon rack to display six at a time... I'd need three XD

I've been wondering for years why you idle in that.

Sage

6,964 posts

Anyone in the mood for a math problem?

What I've done so far is factor the bottom to split it and use partial fractions...so you end up with

x(x+sqrt(-1+i))(x-sqrt(-1+i))(x+sqrt(-1-i))(x-sqrt(-1-i)) or x((x^2)+(1+i))((x^2)+(1-i))

Partial fraction split would be... left side = A,B,C,D,E over each of those factors or a/x then Bx+C & Dx+E if you used the x^2 factors

Multiply by lcd...then...yeah. I'm not sure if this is something simple and I'm just getting bogged down by so many factors, variables, and the ever so wonderful*i*. But If you could point me in a direction to try that would be great.

What I've done so far is factor the bottom to split it and use partial fractions...so you end up with

x(x+sqrt(-1+i))(x-sqrt(-1+i))(x+sqrt(-1-i))(x-sqrt(-1-i)) or x((x^2)+(1+i))((x^2)+(1-i))

Partial fraction split would be... left side = A,B,C,D,E over each of those factors or a/x then Bx+C & Dx+E if you used the x^2 factors

Multiply by lcd...then...yeah. I'm not sure if this is something simple and I'm just getting bogged down by so many factors, variables, and the ever so wonderful

Scholar

6,224 posts

Busaman wrote:

Raelix wrote:

I'd have way more inventory space if I didn't have this wicked collection.

The only moghouse furniture I'll ever want is some kind of weapon rack to display six at a time... I'd need three XD

The only moghouse furniture I'll ever want is some kind of weapon rack to display six at a time... I'd need three XD

I've been wondering for years why you idle in that.

No HQ boxes in idle set. Idle refresh piece. Gothic gear useless but super rare and unique looking and sorta matches. Ice Spikes legs to go with Gothic gives me about a 50% ice spikes rate. Used to make people say the

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

You're new here, aren't you?

Nilatai wrote:

Vlorsutes wrote:

There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?

Sage

5,684 posts

I looked at the question for 5 seconds, hence I have no idea how to solve it or what the solution is at this time, but two things I'd try (and in this order):

Integration by Parts

Substitution

My goal would be to keep things clean. I have no clue how this problem comes into what your class if covering, so I might be off.

Integration by Parts

Substitution

My goal would be to keep things clean. I have no clue how this problem comes into what your class if covering, so I might be off.

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

We just covered by parts and partial fractions so you're not far off. By parts seems like it would be messy as @#%^ though.

Sage

5,684 posts

Then in that case...

Wolfram|Alpha?

Also, I already punched it inSpoiler Solution (honestly, this really isn't even spoiler material, the problem is so @#%^ed up, but it uses partial fractions!). Your professor is such a dick, that's all I can say.

*Edited, Oct 9th 2012 4:06pm by xypin *

Wolfram|Alpha?

Also, I already punched it in

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

Yeah I had plugged it into wolfram and couldn't really make heads or tails of it. The way wolfram handles partial fractions is different than the way we learned it. :( The problem is worth 10 extra points on our next test so he certainly isn't a dick lol.

Sage

5,684 posts

Ahh, I was thinking this was a homework problem.

Then in this case, it's probably easier to solve partial fractions twice because of the imaginary parts.

N = numerator of original problem

D = denominator of original problem

So you'd first find partial fractions for x*(x^4 + 2x^2 + 2 )

You'll need to solve the following equation

N/D = A / x + (Bx^3 + Cx^2 + Dx + E) / (x^4 + 2x^2 + 2)

The numerator of partial fractions is one degree less than its denominator.

From here, multiply out, solve the equation.

The second is a bit tricky. You've already got the denominator parts:

x^2 + 1 - i

x^2 + 1 + i

but since there is an imaginary part, for the partial fractions you want to use the form

Ax + Bx*i + C + D*i

Even though the imaginary part is only a constant in the denominator, you still need it as function of x for the numerator. If it is indeed the case that there is no imaginary part (in this case B), then that variable will be equal to 0.

This is how I was taught partial fractions anyway. Is this any help?

*Edited, Oct 9th 2012 4:39pm by xypin *

Then in this case, it's probably easier to solve partial fractions twice because of the imaginary parts.

N = numerator of original problem

D = denominator of original problem

So you'd first find partial fractions for x*(x^4 + 2x^2 + 2 )

You'll need to solve the following equation

N/D = A / x + (Bx^3 + Cx^2 + Dx + E) / (x^4 + 2x^2 + 2)

The numerator of partial fractions is one degree less than its denominator.

From here, multiply out, solve the equation.

The second is a bit tricky. You've already got the denominator parts:

x^2 + 1 - i

x^2 + 1 + i

but since there is an imaginary part, for the partial fractions you want to use the form

Ax + Bx*i + C + D*i

Even though the imaginary part is only a constant in the denominator, you still need it as function of x for the numerator. If it is indeed the case that there is no imaginary part (in this case B), then that variable will be equal to 0.

This is how I was taught partial fractions anyway. Is this any help?

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

My current attempt. The way we were taught was if the factor is linear you can put a constant variable above it. If it's quadratic you put a linear above it (Bx+C). I think the way I'm currently trying will just lead to a dead end with a complicated system of equations to solve (Or can't be solved) I was trying to get the coefficients to line up so it was like...(B+D)x^4 on one side and -1/2x^4 on the other so you could equate (B+D)=-1/2...but that didn't seem to work either. I feel like my background in algebra just isn't quite up to par for this problem, or I'm just going about it wrong.

And of course, you're always a good help xyp. <3

*Edited, Oct 9th 2012 5:01pm by Siralin *

And of course, you're always a good help xyp. <3

Sage

5,684 posts

Get any further?

Image of my partial fraction solutions: http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x308/xypin/math.jpg

(Warning, might be more confusing)

PDF document outlining my partial fraction work: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/80054039/math_solution.pdf

(Slightly more detailed)

If you're still stuck on that part, this might be helpful.

Oh, I pulled out a 1/2 in the second part, it's there... just not there. So keep that in mind if you try this method.

Also, in the link you posted, while your setup isn't unsolvable, it's just really, really hard (something may or may not be wrong with the algebra, didn't check toooo closely). The difficulty comes from the fact that B, C, D, and E are all complex. The real(B-D) + imag(C +E) has to equal 2 while the other parts have to sum to 3/2. Setting B = a + bi and similar for other variables if you wanted to continue from that point would probably fix this.

*Edited, Oct 9th 2012 6:51pm by xypin *

Image of my partial fraction solutions: http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x308/xypin/math.jpg

(Warning, might be more confusing)

PDF document outlining my partial fraction work: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/80054039/math_solution.pdf

(Slightly more detailed)

If you're still stuck on that part, this might be helpful.

Oh, I pulled out a 1/2 in the second part, it's there... just not there. So keep that in mind if you try this method.

Also, in the link you posted, while your setup isn't unsolvable, it's just really, really hard (something may or may not be wrong with the algebra, didn't check toooo closely). The difficulty comes from the fact that B, C, D, and E are all complex. The real(B-D) + imag(C +E) has to equal 2 while the other parts have to sum to 3/2. Setting B = a + bi and similar for other variables if you wanted to continue from that point would probably fix this.

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

Where does the (Bx^3 + Cx^2 + Dx + E) come from in your solution? Is that just part of the way you were taught the decomposition?

Sage

5,684 posts

Siralin wrote:

Where does the (Bx^3 + Cx^2 + Dx + E) come from in your solution? Is that just part of the way you were taught the decomposition?

N / (x)(x^4 + 2x^2+ 2)

You actually answer your question here

Siralin wrote:

The way we were taught was if the factor is linear you can put a constant variable above it. If it's quadratic you put a linear above it (Bx+C).

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

Got it...and going from the first line to the second, how did the Bx^3 end up as Bx^4. :( That feels like a stupid question, but I'm not seeing where the x came from that was distributed through.

Sage

5,684 posts

You're trying to find

P = (Bx3 + Cx2 + Dx + E)/(x4+2x2+2)

Since D = x*(x4+2x2+2)

then

D*P = x*(x4+2x2+2)*(Bx3+Cx2+Dx+E)/(x4+2x2+2) = x*(Bx3+Cx2+Dx+E)

I'll update pdf file in a minute as well.

Oh, I see, I missed an x... sorry for the typo, the pdf is updated, should clear up the confusion.

*Edited, Oct 9th 2012 7:15pm by xypin *

P = (Bx3 + Cx2 + Dx + E)/(x4+2x2+2)

Since D = x*(x4+2x2+2)

then

D*P = x*(x4+2x2+2)*(Bx3+Cx2+Dx+E)/(x4+2x2+2) = x*(Bx3+Cx2+Dx+E)

I'll update pdf file in a minute as well.

Oh, I see, I missed an x... sorry for the typo, the pdf is updated, should clear up the confusion.

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

Going to try it with the (Bx3+Cx2+Dx+E) way. That seems like it will work out better (easier) than with my way. Will report back! You're my hero.

Sage

6,964 posts

I'm nearing the point of saying @#%^ this problem. You have to do partial fractions like 2 more times to come to a really @#%^ing convoluted answer. Ugh.

41,355 posts

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

Sage

5,684 posts

The moment I popped it into Wolfram, I gave up on solving the problem beyond computing the first three partial fractions. Since there is a fourth part to the solution, I'm guessing the (x^2 +1-j) integral can be separated, but my interest stopped at the end of that pdf.

I just wanted to prove to myself that I could at least do that much.

I just wanted to prove to myself that I could at least do that much.

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

I pushed through and got an answer. Going to check back over it tomorrow. Probably not right...but it seemed to work out. We'll see when my brain doesn't want to slap me.

Sage

6,964 posts

Here we go....https://dl.dropbox.com/s/nz62u45uugmun0r/MathEC.docx?dl=1

(Obviously it could be simplified more...[factor then combine lns], but @#%^ that because @#%^ this problem.)

*Edited, Oct 10th 2012 2:46pm by Siralin *

(Obviously it could be simplified more...[factor then combine lns], but @#%^ that because @#%^ this problem.)

Sage

5,684 posts

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/80054039/partial_result.pdf

Relevant: bottom of page 1 in your document

Ok, so the mistake isn't terrible, but either your B or D variable is incorrect on the bottom of page 1 (A and C are correct).

*Edited, Oct 10th 2012 3:23pm by xypin *

Relevant: bottom of page 1 in your document

Ok, so the mistake isn't terrible, but either your B or D variable is incorrect on the bottom of page 1 (A and C are correct).

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

I think I originally had (4/2i)+1 = B which apparently equals (1-2i) >.>

I wondering how long it takes until someone says STFU WITH THE MATH YOU GUYS TAKE IT TO PM.

I wondering how long it takes until someone says STFU WITH THE MATH YOU GUYS TAKE IT TO PM.

Sage

5,684 posts

Second page, middle- given your solution for A and B...

A + B =/= 0

I would guess A is missing a 1/2.

Also, where the hell is the physicist? I'm only an engineer and I'm pretty sure physics is 300% more math than engineering.

It's just a typo, but second page, second to last equation, the denominator should be x^2 + 1 - i, not x^2 + 1 + i.

*Edited, Oct 10th 2012 4:03pm by xypin *

A + B =/= 0

I would guess A is missing a 1/2.

Also, where the hell is the physicist? I'm only an engineer and I'm pretty sure physics is 300% more math than engineering.

It's just a typo, but second page, second to last equation, the denominator should be x^2 + 1 - i, not x^2 + 1 + i.

Signature starts here.

Sage

6,964 posts

He didn't even care when I mentioned it on facebook!

41,355 posts

Can't blame him for that.

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

Sage

3,959 posts

Gaxe, troll harder, you bore me.

LordFaramir wrote:

ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH

41,355 posts

Don't care.

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

Sage

6,964 posts

He wasn't even trolling though... Sounded pretty reasonable to me. Few people enjoy this kind of stuff like xyp.

Drunken English Bastard

15,246 posts

I did have a stab at that problem, but after a while I gave up because I suck at calculus, apparently. It's a pretty evil problem.

Did you get an answer in the end? I could put it in my Physics message board for Uni? XD

Did you get an answer in the end? I could put it in my Physics message board for Uni? XD

My Movember page

Solrain wrote:

WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:

ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3

Sage

5,684 posts

I think the last link Sira posted is the answer, mostly. I pointed out a few minor errors, but quickly became bored with that.

Signature starts here.

Drunken English Bastard

15,246 posts

I should have a read through what he posted, then. Haven't had a spare minute the past few days.

For some reason they've decided it's a good idea for the first four weeks of term that the Physicists should do more Mathematics based lectures than actual Mathematics degree students.

So burned out by it!

For some reason they've decided it's a good idea for the first four weeks of term that the Physicists should do more Mathematics based lectures than actual Mathematics degree students.

So burned out by it!

My Movember page

Solrain wrote:

WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:

ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3

Scholar

2,227 posts

INB4 Rae get's here. {Blood Cuisses}

[ffxisig]188740[/ffxisig] Drunken English Bastard

15,246 posts

You know, it's funny. When you're wrestling with some sort of moral dilemma, how songs suddenly jump out at you.

For example, right now I'm particularly drawn to this song by Cliff Richard.

I won't go into the why of it, cuz this isn't f*cking livejournal. Just thought it was, y'know, weird.

For example, right now I'm particularly drawn to this song by Cliff Richard.

I won't go into the why of it, cuz this isn't f*cking livejournal. Just thought it was, y'know, weird.

My Movember page

Solrain wrote:

WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:

ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3

Sage

4,327 posts

SPACE JUMPING

pld = 79 thf=

nin =

mnk = 76 war = 52

Retired for now ^ Screw you Abyssea.

milich wrote:

Scholar

6,224 posts

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Airships on fire off the shoulder of Bahamut. I watched Scapula Beams glitter in the dark near the Three Mage Gate...

You're new here, aren't you?

Nilatai wrote:

Vlorsutes wrote:

There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?

Sage

6,964 posts

Pst, they had Joe Kittinger leading the team. Everyone knows it was previously done. (At a lower altitude, slower speed, and with a droge chute.) The only record thy didnt break was the longest freefall time, which can be attributed to the lack of a droge chute.

If you're trying to say it's not special because they were able to do it 50 years ago, gfy.

If you're trying to say it's not special because they were able to do it 50 years ago, gfy.

Scholar

6,224 posts

It's funny to point out the drogue chute caused more problems than it solved, but Kittinger still broke the speed of sound (714mph, sound <680mph at those altitudes) even *with* the drogue.

Hey you know what? Felix did have a drogue 'just in case'.

It's a load of hype I don't buy into. 20% higher is not 20% cooler. Yes I guess I will eventually be that guy that says "Guys, this was already done at 1/10th the cost back in 1969" when private industry reaches a certain milestone.

Kinda hard to take modern high-performance aircraft seriously when you know the A-12 was designed in the 50's too. This isn't rose-tinted glasses and nostalgia, those engineers had*balls*. Today they'd say "WTF is this round window bullsh*t? You're dealing with 14 f*cking PSI, you aren't building a f*cking submarine. And get rid of this @#%^-ass hybrid rocket sh*t and put some f*cking LH2/LOX tanks in you pansy f*cks."

50's Engineers made things in Flash White. Burt Rutan thinks he makes things in Flash Gordon.

*Edited, Oct 15th 2012 8:06am by Raelix *

Hey you know what? Felix did have a drogue 'just in case'.

It's a load of hype I don't buy into. 20% higher is not 20% cooler. Yes I guess I will eventually be that guy that says "Guys, this was already done at 1/10th the cost back in 1969" when private industry reaches a certain milestone.

Kinda hard to take modern high-performance aircraft seriously when you know the A-12 was designed in the 50's too. This isn't rose-tinted glasses and nostalgia, those engineers had

50's Engineers made things in Flash White. Burt Rutan thinks he makes things in Flash Gordon.

Nilatai wrote:

Vlorsutes wrote:

There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?

Sage

6,964 posts

Everything that I'm finding (looked past wiki) is showing that he only hit 614 mph which is below the speed of sound at those altitudes. Even the Air Force's website states this. I was only able to find the 714 number at one link and it stated that Kittinger had stated this speed in later interviews.

No it's your own "I hate society and anything they think is cool" vision. You're taking the fact that this is a hyped marketing campaign and running with it to the point of discrediting the guy and the "mission." Sure there are some frat boys and video game majors out there going " BRO THIS IS THE COOLEST THING EVER THIS GUY HAS THE BIGGEST BALLS MAYBE HE SHOULD TAKE A PISS OFF THE BALLOON LOL THINK OF ALL THE*SCIENCE* THEY'RE GONNA GET FROM THIS BRO...@#%^ING *SCIENCE*," but that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty neat and a cool accomplishment. You would probably have some of the same (justifiable) criticisms as you do now if they had done this without big sponsors and it wasn't in the media, but you'd also be eating this sh*t up and bring it to us on your "I'm cooler than you because I know about things like this" platter.

Raelix wrote:

This isn't rose-tinted glasses

No it's your own "I hate society and anything they think is cool" vision. You're taking the fact that this is a hyped marketing campaign and running with it to the point of discrediting the guy and the "mission." Sure there are some frat boys and video game majors out there going " BRO THIS IS THE COOLEST THING EVER THIS GUY HAS THE BIGGEST BALLS MAYBE HE SHOULD TAKE A PISS OFF THE BALLOON LOL THINK OF ALL THE

Scholar

6,224 posts

You're confusing me with Turin, dangus.

I'm not saying jumping 300 feet on a motorcycle is lame because Knievel did 140 feet on a softtail harley. I'm saying media hype about a 'jump from space' that isn't even a third of the way to legal 'space' and being overseen by the guy who did it 50 years ago is just 'meh'.

*Edited, Oct 15th 2012 8:10am by Raelix *

I'm not saying jumping 300 feet on a motorcycle is lame because Knievel did 140 feet on a softtail harley. I'm saying media hype about a 'jump from space' that isn't even a third of the way to legal 'space' and being overseen by the guy who did it 50 years ago is just 'meh'.

Nilatai wrote:

Vlorsutes wrote:

There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?

Sage

6,964 posts

I wouldn't compare you to Turin, but you are being a bit of a twat.

I hate the media as much as anyone else (ask my GF, she has to listen to me rant about sensationalist article titles about science and technology all the time), but you have to understand that they need to make it out to be awesome (and more than it actually is) because they're sinking a sh*t load of money into it hoping they'll see a return. You can't blame them for this, but you also don't have to buy into it. (Which you're clearly not.)

*Edited, Oct 15th 2012 10:18am by Siralin *

I hate the media as much as anyone else (ask my GF, she has to listen to me rant about sensationalist article titles about science and technology all the time), but you have to understand that they need to make it out to be awesome (and more than it actually is) because they're sinking a sh*t load of money into it hoping they'll see a return. You can't blame them for this, but you also don't have to buy into it. (Which you're clearly not.)

Scholar

6,224 posts

Develop a suit that can survive higher speeds. Use 50 years of bettered materials and technology. Hell, bring back ribbon chutes.

Good? Now jump from 200k.

It's awesome sure, but it's a rerun.

Good? Now jump from 200k.

It's awesome sure, but it's a rerun.

Nilatai wrote:

Vlorsutes wrote:

There's always...not trolling him?

You're new here, aren't you?

Sage

4,327 posts

It was quite fun to watch though. Footage from this jump is undeniably better, just sayin. ;)

pld = 79 thf=

nin =

mnk = 76 war = 52

Retired for now ^ Screw you Abyssea.

milich wrote:

Keeper of the Shroud

12,928 posts

Since I've somehow gotten dragged into this, Raelix, you're being a douche again. Stop it.

41,355 posts

milich wrote:

space jump is obviously cool regardless of whether it's in the 50s or now.

George Carlin wrote:

I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.

Sage

6,964 posts

I don't particularly care if you thought it was cool or meh, but he broke all but one record that he set out for.

**B***i*__U__~~S~~
Smileys

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