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My pld setup for endgame tankingFollow

#1 Nov 24 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?199838

Not really too many hard to get things in here honestly. Sattva is probably as hard as it gets lol. Maybe the +1 earrings too depending how much they go for on your server.

What do you guys think? What could I do to improve? I'm thinking I might have too much enmity and should think about switching to acc+
#2 Nov 25 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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You should have multiple sets for different functions, and modify the sets depending on the target.

Standing
: This is for when Utusemi is up, and you basically want TP and do a bit of damage. You may want to trade some DD gear for HP gear if fighting anything nasty.

Utsusemi: Ichi: Shield skill, Fast Cast (if you have), and maybe Haste and PDT-.

Utsusemi: Ni: Haste gear first and foremost; add shield skill and PDT- if you have room.

High Def: Defensive gears; Shield, PDT-, defense, etc. Use when the Utsusemi timers are down.

Flash: Haste gear; enmity if you have room.

Reprisal: Haste gear.

Cure: Cure Potency, and maybe Fast Cast.

MDB/MDT-: Switch to this to handle big -ga nukes.


There are also things like Enhancing Magic skill for Phalanx, VIT for Rampart (unless you're just using Rampart for enmity, in which case enmity gear), etc.

Edit: Also, cure cheat sets; one set to bring the max HP down, one to bring the max HP up--then you can cure yourself for enmity.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 12:30pm by IfritnoItazura
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#3 Nov 25 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
You should have multiple sets for different functions, and modify the sets depending on the target.

Standing
: This is for when Utusemi is up, and you basically want TP and do a bit of damage. You may want to trade some DD gear for HP gear if fighting anything nasty.

Utsusemi: Ichi: Shield skill, Fast Cast (if you have), and maybe Haste and PDT-.

Utsusemi: Ni: Haste gear first and foremost; add shield skill and PDT- if you have room.

High Def: Defensive gears; Shield, PDT-, defense, etc. Use when the Utsusemi timers are down.

Flash: Haste gear; enmity if you have room.

Reprisal: Haste gear.

Cure: Cure Potency, and maybe Fast Cast.

MDB/MDT-: Switch to this to handle big -ga nukes.


There are also things like Enhancing Magic skill for Phalanx, VIT for Rampart (unless you're just using Rampart for enmity, in which case enmity gear), etc.

Edit: Also, cure cheat sets; one set to bring the max HP down, one to bring the max HP up--then you can cure yourself for enmity.

Edited, Nov 25th 2010 12:30pm by IfritnoItazura


Thank you, I always neglect swapping my gear out.
#4 Nov 25 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
Edit: Also, cure cheat sets; one set to bring the max HP down, one to bring the max HP up--then you can cure yourself for enmity.


Just thought I'd mention, I prefer letting my hp go up with +HP gear I don't have in my standing set. It's an advantage that a lot of this +HP gear also has enmity and/or cure potency on it, maximizing the most from the curing set.

Other sets I'd recommend:

Other WS sets. Atonement is quickly getting outdated with mobs immune to it as well as a damage cap of 750. If SE really wants to help us tank again, we need something similar without the cap. Maybe based off mob HP or something. It would be a step in the right direction. Good WS's to have sets for: Sanguine Blade and Vorpal Blade (think RR here).

+MND set when /RDM (not often, but there's still times it's useful).

+VIT set when /DNC (again, not often, but it works great to maximize those curing waltzes).


If you aren't a Christmas tree as a PLD, you have no place acting as a tank in end game. Especially in this era where many feel that PLD is no longer necessary for anything with no small reason.
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#5 Nov 28 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dracoth wrote:
If you aren't a Christmas tree as a PLD, you have no place acting as a tank in end game. Especially in this era where many feel that PLD is no longer necessary for anything with no small reason.


This, a thousand times.

Even as an old, old (god I've played this game a long time) PLD main, I'll be the first to admit that my WAR can tank almost everything better than my PLD, and my RDM and another RDM can tackle so much game content as a duo, that PLD is having a hard time finding a solid niche. I can't remember doing anything in months that flat out needed my PLD, I would use the job because I enjoy it, but I was slowing things down. That's sad, but it's how the game is progressing, and anyone wanting to play PLD needs to be pretty serious about it.
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#6 Nov 30 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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I tanked Ironclad Pulverizer yesterday on Pld and Briareus a few days ago. Those 2 mobs I would have to say need a Pld tank. I was getting hit freakin' hard and had to cure spam myself to stay alive. I wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes on Drk/Nin trying that on either of those. The smaller mobs are np to tank with a Mnk, or Drk, but I think the harder hitting guys still need a Pld. I keep seeing "Pld is useless" everywhere. And that a DD can tank ANYTHING a Pld can. I would have to say that's about as true as it's always been. Sure any job can "tank". A Brd can "Tank" if you have enough mages cure bombing him. But that doesn't mean it's better than having a Pld.
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#7 Nov 30 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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The problem is that a couple of RDMs can duo that mob no problem. WAR and MNK can tank him with little chance of dieing as well.
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#8 Nov 30 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Dreakon wrote:
I tanked Ironclad Pulverizer yesterday on Pld and Briareus a few days ago. Those 2 mobs I would have to say need a Pld tank.

Did Ironclad Pulverizer yesterday myself. Didn't use PLD. WAR and NIN were tanks, but that choice was for triggering "!!"; it was pretty obvious just about any DD would've worked if we didn't care about triggering.

Generally speaking, most things in Abyssea can be easily tanked by MNKs due to their high HP. MNK's HP has gotten to the point of negating PLD's edge in survivability with the shield, IMO. The extra few seconds that higher HP buys for the healers to react trumps better average damage mitigation with the amount of MP recovery healers have these days. And, with the damage output they can do in Abyssea, getting monster's attention back from healers (if the MNKs even lose it in the first place) is no harder than hitting it for an attack round or two.

I love my PLD, but it's not nearly as useful as it used to be. DDs with good HP and DD Atma are now the go-to tank choice--there's absolutely nothing I can do to keep the monster facing me when Haste and March are on a Black Belt MNK with ToM weapon punching away with Razed Ruins.

* * *

Of course, a good PLD will make fights a lot smoother than a DD not prepared to tank but was shoved into the role. Even when the PLDs can't solidly hold monsters away from the melee DDs, they can still cure any alliance member in range. That's not something other front line jobs can offer. (Except DNC, and to lesser degree, BLU.)

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#9 Nov 30 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Dreakon wrote:
I tanked Ironclad Pulverizer yesterday on Pld and Briareus a few days ago. Those 2 mobs I would have to say need a Pld tank.
Tanked him myself as BLU/NIN just fine, as well. While you've got a point about a PLD being able to take hits slightly better than most jobs, there comes a point where the raw healing capacity makes up for it. MNKs with their high HP totals do really well. WARs do great with their tools, being nearly as defensive as PLDs with a lot of offensive capability, too. BLU can do great if played properly, having plenty of defense as well as plenty of offense to kill the mob and hold it at the same time.

You could take a defensive tank and make the fight last a while, or you can take an offensive tank, pulverize the mob, and move on to the next one. I'm a die hard PLD. I love the job. I love what it does. But it's just outclassed under the current mechanics. Unless SE gives us some reason to actually have our type of tank again, we're just going to be neglected by the majority of the player base. We'll have to wait and see what happens at 90.

Dreakon wrote:
Sure any job can "tank". A Brd can "Tank" if you have enough mages cure bombing him. But that doesn't mean it's better than having a Pld.


With how much refresh is available to mages, cure bombing is a perfectly viable tactic. YOU were even using it to try to keep hate. Until PLD's defense MEANS something and they have an offense to help destroy the mob as well, we're not going to see PLD's as mainstream again.
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Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
#10 Dec 01 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dracoth wrote:
With how much refresh is available to mages, cure bombing is a perfectly viable tactic. YOU were even using it to try to keep hate. Until PLD's defense MEANS something and they have an offense to help destroy the mob as well, we're not going to see PLD's as mainstream again.


This, basically (and unfortunately). Yesterday, I was farming pop sets in Attohwa, and we were trying to proc red !! to force them to drop. Normally, I just kite that fight, but with a WAR there to proc weakness, kiting makes landing the WS a real pain, so I just stood there and straight tanked it on RDM/NIN.

Who cares if I get hit? I have 17mp/tick Refresh for Cures and loads of HP and MP restore items. And if I lose hate, I can spam Tier IV nukes and cures until I get hate back. That's not to say PLD can't perform similarly, but what it can't do is turn around a second after the !! procs and kite/nuke the mob to death while the group starts on the next NM.

Honestly, I expected to see more use out of PLD in Abyssea now that it's 85, but the way the mechanics are set up, things are completely stacked against PLD. Maybe if I get Chant du Cygne will I be able to start coming PLD (but the way things are now, I'd probably just get on BLU instead).

That said, I'm going to try to sqweasel my way into being PLD for tonight's Omega (but I will probably end up on RDM like I usually do).
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#11 Dec 03 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, for the record I was able to successfully sqweasel into coming PLD for Omega (first thing I ever tanked since 37 PLD -- Abyssea doesn't count because I lose hate in 2 seconds). Was a total blast, and I only died once due to an unlucky TP move > Crit combo, right at the end when the mages were berserk-nuking it to death anyway.

Now I just want SE to fix PLD in Abyssea so I can tank on it more often. :(
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Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
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#12 Dec 03 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
Oh, for the record I was able to successfully sqweasel into coming PLD for Omega (first thing I ever tanked since 37 PLD -- Abyssea doesn't count because I lose hate in 2 seconds). Was a total blast, and I only died once due to an unlucky TP move > Crit combo, right at the end when the mages were berserk-nuking it to death anyway.

Now I just want SE to fix PLD in Abyssea so I can tank on it more often. :(


Omega? Missing fight? I recently 'tanked' that and Ultima on SAM/NIN for an acquaintance. A PUP may be able to solo that with a healer automaton; it's really, really nerfed now without the old level cap.

Or you mean Proto-Omega? We only lose BLMs who like to overnuke without using mana wall first. PLDs don't die to those things if the healers/stunner are paying attention. I didn't even bother with a shield last time; Duel Wield swords the entire fight in DD gear.

* * *

I don't know about losing hate in 2 seconds in Abysea. Try doing more damage; not going to be able to lock down monsters with DDs on the better Atmas, but you can contribute useful amount of damage (and cures!) and share the monsters' attention.

If talking about exp'ing, there is no tank; a PLD is just the main /assist. Your job is to flow smoothly and quickly from one target to the next and make sure they don't run after the puller or the sleeper, not hanging on to each with a death grip.

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#13 Dec 04 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
Or you mean Proto-Omega? We only lose BLMs who like to overnuke without using mana wall first. PLDs don't die to those things if the healers/stunner are paying attention. I didn't even bother with a shield last time; Duel Wield swords the entire fight in DD gear.


Well, like I said it was a freak accident; TP move followed by crit that killed me. I was fine the rest of the fight.

Edit: And yeah, I was talking about Proto-Omega. It's been so long since I did CoP 6-4 that I forgot to specify.

IfritnoItazura wrote:
If talking about exp'ing, there is no tank; a PLD is just the main /assist. Your job is to flow smoothly and quickly from one target to the next and make sure they don't run after the puller or the sleeper, not hanging on to each with a death grip.


Yeah, I was talking about XP. I was Flashing/Voking off the puller, and within a few seconds, hate would be gone. Unfortunately I don't have any good DD Atmas or CDC, but that's something I've been working on.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 3:44am by Aliekber
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Aliekber
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#14 Dec 04 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Aliekber wrote:
Yeah, I was talking about XP. I was Flashing/Voking off the puller, and within a few seconds, hate would be gone. Unfortunately I don't have any good DD Atmas or CDC, but that's something I've been working on.


I wouldn't bother trying to tank, period. For exp'ing, either you bring enough healers to keep people alive, or make the DDs use Utsusemi or Seigan + Third Eye. Between whatever temp items and damage mitigation they have, the DDs are responsible for staying alive until the healers can get to them.

You point them to what to fight next, help cure if you have MP, but tanking isn't your role. The other front line people have their duties to fill, and staying alive while the monster is on them is one of those duties.
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#15 Dec 04 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
Yeah, I was talking about XP. I was Flashing/Voking off the puller, and within a few seconds, hate would be gone. Unfortunately I don't have any good DD Atmas or CDC, but that's something I've been working on.


I wouldn't bother trying to tank, period. For exp'ing, either you bring enough healers to keep people alive, or make the DDs use Utsusemi or Seigan + Third Eye. Between whatever temp items and damage mitigation they have, the DDs are responsible for staying alive until the healers can get to them.

You point them to what to fight next, help cure if you have MP, but tanking isn't your role. The other front line people have their duties to fill, and staying alive while the monster is on them is one of those duties.


I wasn't trying to tank, I was voking off the puller so they could turn around and pull again. I'm aware of my duties as a PLD in different situations; even though I only leveled the job recently, I've been meaning to for a long time, and so I've lurked the PLD board here for about 2 years.
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Aliekber
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#16 Dec 04 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Why worry about:
Aliekber wrote:
I was Flashing/Voking off the puller, and within a few seconds, hate would be gone.
When you're not trying to tank?

Anyway, if you're really interested in how you do in exp settings, my advice is to run kParser. Parse the session, then afterward open up the "Performance" tab. Look at "Damage per Second" number. Specifically, the "Total DPS" column.

To give you an idea, in the last straight up exp* session (PUG group, even), with Haste and March on me much of the time, I got 55.35 Total DPS as PLD/NIN (Strout Arms and Heavens Atams) using my terribly out of date Organics and Joyeuse. The target was Ignis Eruca, and I had capped, fully merited sword skill. (* Well, I was only interested in shoes, but most others wanted experience points.)

In contrast, fighting Abyssobugard on SAM/NIN using a mix of Erebus's Lance and Hagun (Yes, was skill'ing up--I asked if it was OK before I joined), I got 57.98 Total DPS with uncapped Great Katana and Polearm skills with Strout Arms and Heirs Atmas. No march, barely any Haste.

Of course, the mobs are different so a direct comparison isn't possible, but you should aim to be no more than a notch or two behind any similarly buffed (and Atma'd? lol) DD on the same monsters. The typical PLD/WAR I see were under 30 Total DPS; usually under 20. Heck, under 10 isn't abnormal.

Don't be the typical PLD.

* * *

I just got Razed Ruins recently, and I'm curious what my PLD can do with that and Strout Arms together. But, there's really nothing I want from exp alliances, being limit/merit/exp capped with full merits. Not even shoes, since I have 6 pairs from gold boxes--and I have only have 5 high level jobs. (Forgot to pass DRG shoes and it dropped into my inventory. lol.)

I don't think I'd hit 100 DPS even with March and Haste, but would be interested to see how close I can come to it.
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#17 Dec 04 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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IfritnoItazura wrote:
Why worry about:
Aliekber wrote:
I was Flashing/Voking off the puller, and within a few seconds, hate would be gone.
When you're not trying to tank?


I'm not worried about it; I'm simply describing what happened, and why it doesn't count as tanking. The only reason I brought up XP at all is to highlight that I felt I had done pretty well for myself tanking Proto-Omega, considering the last time I had actually tanked anything on PLD was at level 37, in Garlaige Citadel, unless you want to count soloing Shield skillups, which I don't.

I know you're probably worried about someone taking PLD from 37 to 85 in two weeks being a bad PLD, or a bad player in general--and this isn't without reason or precedent--but it's not exactly my first time to the rodeo. I know my way around a sword from RDM + BLU, I used to be a RDM tank back when it was possible, I know how to maximize my melee damage from my days as a melee RDM, and from BLU, I know how to maximize a WS set from DRG, I know how to gear defensively with a Sword/Shield from my NM soloing on RDM/BLU days.

In fact, if it will put your mind at ease, I'll list my gearsets, and you can judge for yourself:

TP - Shadows Down:
Joyeuse/Koenig/Smart Grenade
Walahra/PCC/Suppa/Buckler
Perle/Homam/Woodsman/Rajas
Forager's/Swift/Homam/Gallant

TP - Shadows Up:
Joyeuse/Koenig/Smart Grenade
Walahra/PCC/Suppa/Brutal
Perle/Homam/Woodsman/Rajas
Forager's/Swift/Homam/Perle

Vorpal:
Joyeuse/Koenig/Smart Grenade
Varangian/PCC/Suppa/Brutal
Perle/Heca/Flame/Rajas
Forager's/Warwolf/Perle/Perle

Atonement:
///
Gallant/Flame Gorget//
Nuevo/Homam/Mermaid/Hercules
Resentment/Creed/Gallant/Perle

Sanguine:
///Phantom
Varangian/Lemegeton/Cunning/Moldavite
Nuevo/Heca/Snow/Snow
Prism/Warwolf/Perle/Perle

Utsusemi-Ichi Cast:
///
Walahra/Shield/Loq/Buckler
Nuevo(FC/Enmity+)/Homam//
/Swift/Homam/Gallant

Utsusemi-Ni Cast:
///
Walahra/Shield/Loq/Buckler
Nuevo/Homam
/Swift/Homam/Perle

Flash Cast:
///
Walahra/Harmonia's/Loq/
Nuevo/Homam/Mermaid/Hercules
Resentment/Swift/Homam/Perle

Sentinel/Provoke:
///
Gallant/Harmonia's//
Nuevo/Homam/Mermaid/Hercules
Resentment/Creed/Gallant/Perle

Cure:
///
Walahra/Harmonia's/Loq/Hospitaler
Nuevo/Homam/Mermaid/Hercules
Resentment/Creed/Homam/Perle

So if I'm n00bing it up, let me know; but I don't think I am.
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Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
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#18 Dec 06 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dracoth wrote:
IfritnoItazura wrote:
Edit: Also, cure cheat sets; one set to bring the max HP down, one to bring the max HP up--then you can cure yourself for enmity.


Just thought I'd mention, I prefer letting my hp go up with +HP gear I don't have in my standing set. It's an advantage that a lot of this +HP gear also has enmity and/or cure potency on it, maximizing the most from the curing set.
In Abyssea, clicking off the "HP boost" effect you get from the npc is a nice cure cheat. You get knocked down to 50% hp, but your HP boost comes back. Instant cure cheat, no gear required.
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#19 Dec 06 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
Dracoth wrote:
IfritnoItazura wrote:
Edit: Also, cure cheat sets; one set to bring the max HP down, one to bring the max HP up--then you can cure yourself for enmity.


Just thought I'd mention, I prefer letting my hp go up with +HP gear I don't have in my standing set. It's an advantage that a lot of this +HP gear also has enmity and/or cure potency on it, maximizing the most from the curing set.
In Abyssea, clicking off the "HP boost" effect you get from the npc is a nice cure cheat. You get knocked down to 50% hp, but your HP boost comes back. Instant cure cheat, no gear required.


That's.... brilliant. I never clicked off the HP boost, so never noticed that effect. Going to have to use that when I tank on BLU, too...
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