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#1 Dec 13 2009 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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My fellow Paladins. Recently I have started to invest both time and gil on a magic redux set for my Tarutaru Paladin. I have a couple of questions. First off, here's my gear:

Weapon: Iron Ram Lance
Grip: Nothing (Ugrading to either Shark or Sword)
Ranged: Lamian Kaman (obvious upgrade would be +1)
Head: Iron Ram Sallet
Neck: Parade/Harmonia's (upgrades would include Ritter and that new Bloodbead)
Ears: Merman's
Body: Iron Ram Hauberk
Hands: Iron Ram Dastanas
Rings: Merman's
Back: Lamia Mantle +1
Waist: Warwolf/Swift (looking for enough rank for Lieutenant's Sash)
Legs: Iron Ram Breeches
Feet: Iron Ram Greaves

Ok, so assume the following. Capped Shellra V. Full barspell merits. A 1000 DMG Flare, no resists.

In my understanding, assuming the listed upgrades and gear, I should have reached the cap of -50% magic damage taken. 23.43%(240/1024 ???) from gear and 27.4%(?) from Shellra V.

At this point it's clear that the Flare should do 500 DMG to my char instead of the usual 1000. Here comes the tricky part. When does MDB calculate? At the same time M% or after. Maybe even before?

Let's say after first. 500 DMG base with 33MDB (assuming Barfira with max merits) comes to around a 335DMG blast.

If it's calculated at the same time, the reduction is roughly 83%, resulting in a 170DMG blast.

Calculating before, results in 333DMG.

Further reducing this damage with a /RDM sub for an additional 10MDB will result in a 280/70/280 DMG blast respectively.

The first obvious question is: which is the correct calculation? I can't test this myself since my PLD at the moment is just a toy, and I'm forced to go BRD to events (yay...)

The second question is, without taking Aegis into the calculations, which is the absolute best straight magic reduction set a PLD can get? Seems to me Resentment cape is situational for those odd times you don't have a capped Shellra V. Mind you, this isn't a resistance set, I still have long long ways to go with that one.

As always, I'd appreciate feedback from my fellow Paladins.


EDIT: Since I was curious, I found out what the best possible -dmg set there is available, and since I'm pretty sure I don't know how to calculate it, any math gurus please help me! Comes out to this:

Aegis + Shellra V = -50%magic dmg. cap.

Lamian Kaman +1 (+2 MDB)
Full IR gear + Ataractic Solea (+ 18 MDB)
Static Earring (+2 MDB)
Shadow Ring (Darksday +10MDB)
Volunteer's Ring (+3 MDB)
Resolute Belt (+2 MDB)
Lamia Mantle +1 (+4 MDB)
/WHM (+12 MDB)
Diabolos buff (+10?MDB)
Full merit Barspell (+10 MDB)

Comes to: MDB +73

Also, assuming Magus' Roll with a BLU in party is MDB instead of -DMG taken (I tried looking for it and couldn't find a definite answer). Gives +33 on XI with BLU in party. If it is indeed MDB, total comes to +106MDB.

So, -50% magic damage taken AND 106%MDB. How does it calculate? Seems to me only mobs with Magic Attack Bonus can hurt you this way, unless it caps at some point.


Edited, Dec 14th 2009 12:12am by Cigarman
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#2 Dec 14 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage

In short, MDB is calculated, and then MDT is calculated.
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#3 Dec 14 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Ok, took a look at the thread. I suck at math, but here's my attempt.

1) D
2) Multiple-Target Damage Reduction
3) resist
4) Staff Bonus
5) Day | Weather Bonus
6) Magic Burst Bonus
6a) Magic Burst Bonus Gear #1
6b) Magic Burst Bonus Gear #2
7) MAB / MDB
8) Target Magic Damage Adjustment

D = 1000 (assuming the Flare example)

D x 1.0 = DmtR = 1000

1000 x resist (1.0) = 1000

1000 x SB/Day/Weather/MB/MBg (all 1.0) = 1000

MDB: 1000 x (1/1.33)

1000 x .75 = 750


750 x (.5 magic damage modifier) = 375 DMG on first case scenario. Capped Shellra V and enough -MDT. MDB +33.


Ok, now looking at the calculation for Aegis (assuming Magus Roll won't wrok)

1000 x (1.00/1.73 =.58 (if rounded up to your disadvantage)) = 580 / .5 = 290 DMG assuming MDB+73.

Now with a +33 Magus Roll, assuming it works:

(1000(1/2.06))/(.5) = DMG
(1000x.49)/(.5) = DMG
(490)/(.5) = 245.

Conclusion: With the best gear available and buffed to **** and back, you can achieve a 75.5% damage reduction from spells.

amidoinitrite?

Thanks for the link :)

EDIT: Holy **** at the diminishing returns from MDB.

EDIT2: Didn't account for the ~10% proc on Shadow Ring negating all damage. So you have a static -75.5% plus another 10% to be negated. I don't know if to straight up add it for -85.5%, et ceteris paribus. (Meaning the only spell you eat is Flare with a D of 1000)

EDIT3: Let's see the best possible w/o Aegis vs. best with Aegis.

w/o: MDT-50%, MDB:

Kaman+1: +2
IR + Solea: +18
Lamia Mantle +1: +4
Diabolos: +10(?)
Bar spell: +10
Magus Roll, BLU on PT XI: +33
Total: 77
282DAMAGE (71.8% magic reduction)


w Aegis: MDT-50%, MDB+106: 245DAMAGE (75.5% magic reduction)

The difference is smaller than I thought, really. Only a 3.7% decrease in magic damage taken with an Aegis. However, you get to keep your sword (A+ skill caps at 267) instead of fighting with Polearm (E, caps at 200). That alone is huge, since you obviously ain't gonna Penta Proto-Ultima sometime soon lol. Also, you lose TP when switching from sword to IR Lance.

Lastly, I've looked for the absolute best magic redux set without sacrificing sword.

Joy/Palmerin's/Kaman+1/nada
IR/anything/Merman/Merman
IR/IR/Merman/Merman
Resentment/Sash/Coral+1/Solea

So, MDT-50%.
And, MDB16 from gear, +10 Bar spell, +10 Diabolos, +33Magus = +69MDB
295DAMAGE. (70.5% Damage reduced vs Aegis 75.5/85.5%)

Only a 5% difference overall with Aegis, however, there's also the enmity, HP factors to take into account while tanking (exceeds the subject of this post). Moreover, Aegis enables the equipping of a Shadow Ring, which negates 10% more, making the difference around 15% more damage reduced over time assuming a constant and equal amount of nukings of the same damage, all while allowing to keep sword. If you choose to use a Shadow instead of a Merman's, you can close the gap a bit if you use the following setup:

Joy/Palmerin/Kaman+1/nada
IR/anything/Merman/Merman
Coral+1/IR/Shadow/Merman
Resentment/Sash/Coral+1/solea

After calculations (both cap 50% MDT):

Darksday: 21 from gear, 10 bar, 10 diabolos, 33 magus = 74 = 287DMG (71.3% +- ~10 = 81.3% vs 85.5% Aegis, 4.2% difference, pretty close)
Restday: 11 from gear, "" = 64 = 305DMG (69.5% +- ~10% = 79.5% vs 84.5% Aegis(removed MDB+10), for a 5% difference)

CONSCLUSION: Aegis offers, while fully pimped and buffed, a 5% extra reduction in damage. However, given the dramatic diminishing returns from MDB, might be worth it to take around an extra 5-10% magic damage, sacrificing MDB for acc and haste for Atonement, which is the true beauty of Aegis. But was nice to come to the conclusion that gearswapping for big nukes (Hello Citadel Buster) while keeping sword out is only 5% more damage over relic shield.

Now, I'm off to do a spreadsheet on the diminishing returns on MDB.

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 4:48pm by Cigarman
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#4 Dec 14 2009 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I completely forgot about Valhalla stuffs. Assuming you want to keep sword out, I found out these setups (leaving Lance setups out since LOL200skill is not worth it no matter how godly your equip is):

Joy/Caballero/Kaman+1/nada
Vhelm/any/Mermans/Mermans
Vbody/IR/Mermans/Shadow
Lamia+1/Lt.Sash/Coral+1/Solea = -50MDT, 14MDB (67 fully buffed).

EST DMG Taken: 299 (not Darksday, +-10% over time with Shadow Ring)


Another workable setup:

Joy/Palmerin's/Kaman+1/nada
Vhelm/any/Mermans/Mermans
Vbody/IR/Volunteer's/Shadow
Resentment/Lt.Sash/IR/Solea = -50%MDT, 15MDB (68 fully buffed).

EST DMG Taken: 297 (not Darksday, +-10% over time with Shadow Ring)


Yet another:

Joy/Palmerin's/Kaman+1/nada
Vhelm/any/Mermans/Mermans
Hauby+1/IR/Shadow/Mermans
Resentment/Life Belt/Coral+1/Solea = -50%MDT, 8MDB (61 fully buffed)

EST DMG taken: 310 (not Darksday, +-10% over time with Shadow Ring) This set has the benefit of +22 extra acc.


Can switch from Vbody to that King Arthro [S] drop, which removes slow from Vbody and gives acc.

Also, just noticed that if you fight anything with MAB, such as BLM mobs or some NM's, Aegis will pull further ahead, and most of your MDB will be negated unless you have LOTS of it. In other words, focus on MDT first, then add MDB as much as you can.


 
MDB+	NUKEAFTERMDB.-50%DMG	MDB Value 
0.01	990.0990099	495	     - 
0.02	980.3921569	490	-0.980392157 
0.03	970.8737864	485	-0.970873786 
0.04	961.5384615	481	-0.961538462 
0.05	952.3809524	476	-0.952380952 
0.06	943.3962264	472	-0.943396226 
0.07	934.5794393	467	-0.934579439 
0.08	925.9259259	463	-0.925925926 
0.09	917.4311927	459	-0.917431193 
0.1	909.0909091	455	-0.909090909 
0.11	900.9009009	450	-0.900900901 
0.12	892.8571429	446	-0.892857143 
0.13	884.9557522	442	-0.884955752 
0.14	877.1929825	439	-0.877192982 
0.15	869.5652174	435	-0.869565217 
0.16	862.0689655	431	-0.862068966 
0.17	854.7008547	427	-0.854700855 
0.18	847.4576271	424	-0.847457627 
0.19	840.3361345	420	-0.840336134 
0.2	833.3333333	417	-0.833333333 
0.21	826.446281	413	-0.826446281 
0.22	819.6721311	410	-0.819672131 
0.23	813.0081301	407	-0.81300813 
0.24	806.4516129	403	-0.806451613 
0.25	800	        400	-0.8 
0.26	793.6507937	397	-0.793650794 
0.27	787.4015748	394	-0.787401575 
0.28	781.25	        391	-0.78125 
0.29	775.1937984	388	-0.775193798 
0.3	769.2307692	385	-0.769230769 
0.31	763.3587786	382	-0.763358779 
0.32	757.5757576	379	-0.757575758 
0.33	751.8796992	376	-0.751879699 
0.34	746.2686567	373	-0.746268657 
0.35	740.7407407	370	-0.740740741 
0.36	735.2941176	368	-0.735294118 
0.37	729.9270073	365	-0.729927007 
0.38	724.6376812	362	-0.724637681 
0.39	719.4244604	360	-0.71942446 
0.4	714.2857143	357	-0.714285714 
0.41	709.2198582	355	-0.709219858 
0.42	704.2253521	352	-0.704225352 
0.43	699.3006993	350	-0.699300699 
0.44	694.4444444	347	-0.694444444 
0.45	689.6551724	345	-0.689655172 
0.46	684.9315068	342	-0.684931507 
0.47	680.2721088	340	-0.680272109 
0.48	675.6756757	338	-0.675675676 
0.49	671.1409396	336	-0.67114094 
0.5	666.6666667	333	-0.666666667 
0.51	662.2516556	331	-0.662251656 
0.52	657.8947368	329	-0.657894737 
0.53	653.5947712	327	-0.653594771 
0.54	649.3506494	325	-0.649350649 
0.55	645.1612903	323	-0.64516129 
0.56	641.025641	321	-0.641025641 
0.57	636.9426752	318	-0.636942675 
0.58	632.9113924	316	-0.632911392 
0.59	628.9308176	314	-0.628930818 
0.6	625	        313	-0.625 
0.61	621.1180124	311	-0.621118012 
0.62	617.2839506	309	-0.617283951 
0.63	613.4969325	307	-0.613496933 
0.64	609.7560976	305	-0.609756098 
0.65	606.0606061	303	-0.606060606 
0.66	602.4096386	301	-0.602409639 
0.67	598.8023952	299	-0.598802395 
0.68	595.2380952	298	-0.595238095 
0.69	591.7159763	296	-0.591715976 
0.7	588.2352941	294	-0.588235294 
0.71	584.7953216	292	-0.584795322 
0.72	581.3953488	291	-0.581395349 
0.73	578.0346821	289	-0.578034682 
0.74	574.7126437	287	-0.574712644 
0.75	571.4285714	286	-0.571428571 
0.76	568.1818182	284	-0.568181818 
0.77	564.9717514	282	-0.564971751 
0.78	561.7977528	281	-0.561797753 
0.79	558.6592179	279	-0.558659218 
0.8	555.5555556	278	-0.555555556 
0.81	552.4861878	276	-0.552486188 
0.82	549.4505495	275	-0.549450549 
0.83	546.4480874	273	-0.546448087 
0.84	543.4782609	272	-0.543478261 
0.85	540.5405405	270	-0.540540541 
0.86	537.6344086	269	-0.537634409 
0.87	534.7593583	267	-0.534759358 
0.88	531.9148936	266	-0.531914894 
0.89	529.1005291	265	-0.529100529 
0.9	526.3157895	263	-0.526315789 
0.91	523.5602094	262	-0.523560209 
0.92	520.8333333	260	-0.520833333 
0.93	518.134715	259	-0.518134715 
0.94	515.4639175	258	-0.515463918 
0.95	512.8205128	256	-0.512820513 
0.96	510.2040816	255	-0.510204082 
0.97	507.6142132	254	-0.507614213 
0.98	505.0505051	253	-0.505050505 
0.99	502.5125628	251	-0.502512563 
1	500	        250	-0.5 
1.01	497.5124378	249	-0.497512438 
1.02	495.049505	248	-0.495049505 
1.03	492.6108374	246	-0.492610837 
1.04	490.1960784	245	-0.490196078 
1.05	487.804878	244	-0.487804878 
1.06	485.4368932	243	-0.485436893 
 
 
 
... 
 
 
1999.8	0.49980008	0	-0.049980008 
 


Diminishing returns. After 100MDB, each point of MDB is worth less than half of what the first one does. You need +19998MDB to negate damage to 0, and it may even be impossible if the game rounds up or truncates decimals.





Edited, Dec 14th 2009 5:44pm by Cigarman

Edited, Dec 14th 2009 6:04pm by Cigarman
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Champion

Muzaa wrote:
The Paladin Code: First man in, last man out.
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