Oh hey, another question thread. Cerberus Mantle / Sky Gods.Follow

Saving for the Haub +1 is a personal decision. It's by far the best idle tp piece for PLD. Everything else is a side grade (at best) or very slightly inferior (at worst). However, the cost for the upgrade makes it one of those "I'm elitist and want to show off purchases" why I got mine... but keep in mind, I tried to hold that elitism to myself only or one of the "it's the last thing I can possibly upgrade" decisions. Cerberus Mantle should rank just a little bit ahead, especially as it benefits two jobs. Now, enmity +3 isn't a huge deal, but it's in a non-blinking position. I personally think Settlers is the better way to go for Atonement spam, but this isn't too shabby. I wouldn't sweat the -attack if you decide to full time it. Or you can make it a macro piece and ignore it entirely.



The biggest impact I had on tanking Byakko was going /NIN. Of the five times I tanked Byakko, the ONLY times I died were either because I was /WAR or because the one WHM who was always on top of everything decided he had time to "Raise I" the schmuck who unloaded with his SAM 2 hour in the first 4 seconds of the fight while /NIN. I had everything under control after that and the timing looked ok, but, as it sometimes will, Triple-Attack Full crit spam from Byakko dropped me just as the Raise animation started. I'd probably suggest a defensive build and /NIN til you're really comfortable with tanking him before moving into Atonement spam, but I don't see why you couldn't use it. The other gods are much more easily tanked /NIN than Byakko is so I imagine Atonement Spam would work great.

I'm Hume with just two lowly HP merits, so I guess I sit at about 1400.

Don't really have much in terms of HP gear though ; ; I don't even have a cure cheat macro, don't really like the concept of spending MP on "nothing" I guess, but I should consider one.

I guess if Byakko/Seiryu can be that cheap I should perhaps ease into god-killing with high HP build (Carbonara perhaps?) until I get used to it? Well there isn't much 'getting used to' freak accidents I suppose lol. Perhaps I'll just go with my current setup and bring along a dependable co-tank.

Also - any place for a magic def. build in sky? Macro it in before spells perhaps, or is it simply better to focus on keeping shadows up as much as possible? I suppose these are mostly up to personal discretion.

You're not spending MP on "nothing" with a cure swap macro, you're allowing yourself to cap out enmity faster without burning up all of your JAs, thus having them available for moments that you really need them for survival (Or to counter a hate reset).

With all the jobs you have listed, I'd consider PCC as your next upgrade. Personally, I like to TP in Parade Gorget since shadows tend to keep it running - but then again I'm very comfortable with my ACC in almost all situations (using Dorado Sushi, Pizza+1, or Carbonara depending on the situation). I think PCC will be more helpful to your other DD jobs than any of the items you listed will be to your PLD.

Cerb mantle is a nice piece that I don't personally have (not worth 800k - I'll wait for Valor Cape). Now I happen to TP in Shadow Mantle as an insurance policy against AOE TP attacks, Triple Attacks, things that avoid shadows, things that strip shadows, etc, but if I didn't have Shadow Mantle, I'd TP in Cerb and macro Boxer's in for shadows, so I'm not saying Cerb Mantle is a bad item. It's just that if I really urgently wanted the enmity macro swap I'd camp Resentment cape, and in your own case, I think Cerb is more of an upgrade specific to your PLD. If that's all you care about you should go that route, but in your case if you are dying for enmity you could just camp Resentment Cape yourself, and macro it in to Flashes, etc while TP'ing in Amemet. That plus 800k in your pocket is probably better than what you get out of owning a Cerb Mantle, especially given that your other DD jobs need PCC still...

On non-Kirin Sky gods, by the way, you have the luxury of starting with 300TP and your SAM(s) do too. I recommend you open with melee hit > hate spike JA's > Flash, then WS for a double-enmity producing Atonement. Meanwhile, you can have a 300TP SAM Sekkanoki and WSTA you for more hate, then with his remaining 200 TP he can Shikikoyo you another 100TP so you can Atonement again, which by now has planted so much hate on you he's free to use the remaining 100TP to SAWS. Basically, what I'm getting at is: I wouldn't worry too much about having or not having an enmity cape just for Sky gods.

Haub+1 is a nicer upgrade than both options (PCC or Cerb) in some ways, but the price reflects that so I think it's better as a final upgrade, as in: "I've already got a PCC and decided to buy/not buy Cerb, so now I'll finally get Haub+1". That said, what it comes down to at that point is your priority list. Eventually you will own both, so this is merely a matter of which comes first, but given you have 7 jobs that swing weapons, I'd think PCC would be a top priority (vs only 3 jobs that benefit from Haub+1). You can not go wrong either way.

Incidentally, I don't know if you have already purchased a solid MDT/MDB build, but if you haven't then I suggest getting that before any of these, by the way.

Settler's cape is terrible outside of PLD/dnc macro swapping (to land steps).

Standard Atonement build on Byakko is the way to go. If you are quick, you can hit your MDT/MDEF build in reponse to aga's and the immediately start putting shadows up so that he hits for minimum damage and you are safe to cure yourself right after. (Or your mages stun, or your bash, etc - all or any of that is good.) I totally would want to have a cotank until you've done him a few times and can decide for yourself how critical that back-up is.

Brutal is the easiest earring to swap out for a Joyuse PLD, btw. If you get ahold of Ethereal, I'd wave /goodbye to that piece. You can consider replacing it now with something like fowling earring (which is really cool when it procs on Suzy), or Merman's Earring (bonus MDT full time is nice for stuff that slips past you), or you can leave it as Brutal. I just mention it because I remember wearing mine without thinking about it as a simple reflex that went with picking up a sword; I might have had other/better options at the time.

Anyway, your gear looks great overall. You are clearly on the road to success and I wish you well.

Good Luck!!

PS: The best "Cure Cheat" macro I ever got was adding a Sorc-Ring BLM to the mage party. Costs me nothing besides not healing him as he's about to land a nuke.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 4:14pm by NatePrawdzik

Soopa, that makes more sense. I didn't look up Settlers, and you're exactly right. Ignore my previous statement regarding it. For some reason, I forgot I said that and thought you were referring to Cerb Mantle.

As for why I went /WAR... My LS demanded it until I "accidentally" showed up to Byakko and rocked his ass. No deaths from anyone in the shell the first time I did it, which (surprisingly) was a first. Someone ALWAYS died on Byakko. The general "Oh SH!T" comments were great. By the by, the LS seemed stuck in 2005ish strategies. We still kited Kirin. But, after my "Byakko" incident, we started full tanking it til two of the PLDs went down and THEN we kited with the remaining PLD. (Waste of time, maybe.... but we won, so meh.) That act alone dropped our kill time by thirty minutes... Just wish I had gotten the damn legs to drop.

This ^^. I died about 15 seconds into the first of three runs last night. 1.5HP, full shadows. Diaga > Triple Attack > Claw Cyclone.

We went 3/3 (Co-tank ftw) but yeah, if the other tank would have gotten really bad luck shortly after me (Luckily his HP build helps, by bringing him to 2k... he hit red, which would have killed me) it would have been a wash.

Stupid Kitty.

As a sorc. ring BLM I'll say that even with a full macro swap to get back down to my casting HP, it's really f*cking annoying when people cure me up to cap. Mostly only because I get caught midcast without people realizing it. If you can figure out a solid, reliable system to only cure people who just finished casting a nuke while still maintaining focus on tanking, fine.

Edited, Oct 22nd 2009 1:14pm by bsphil

IMO PCC is by FAR the best investment. It was already an awsome piece before Lvl sync, now.... its very hard to beat.

Sorry for the mini-necro, just letting you know that thanks to a very awesome guy named Siralin I currently have PCC, and Haub+1, but I did have to spend a bit extra for the Haub+1, so no cerby. I'm still thinking about it.

Anyway, as for Sky, well we've done fairly well - but I'm not sure exactly how Genbu is "lol" compared to the other sky gods. Obviously he is incredibly easy because of his move speed, and his 2hour sucks, but his general "DD" style doesn't seem any different from the others. The only one we haven't done yet is Byakko (and the big K) and frankly Seiryu has been by far the easiest.

I mean, I don't think I've ever been hit this hard from just a single crit. As for why I only had 1000hp? Well I had about 1600 total, but that poison is fairly potent, and he had just smashed me up a little earlier with a 600~ Aqua breath and a couple hits during Invincible where his en-water did some nasty amounts. And it's not as if I was slacking on tanking either, I left in the utsu details to see there really wasn't anything extra I could be doing. He was a nasty long Genbu as well, because at 15%ish somebody CFH-ed and we had to completely unclaim him.

I'm not complaining that he's actually hard, he's ridiculously easy, because you don't actually need the tanks. But in terms of actually tanking him I'm not sure why it's so embarrassing to die to him. Unless you expect all Paladins to have 1800HP, or all support to be brilliant? Little confused.

Depends what kinda support you had. Did you have a brd singing double marches(even with TS he doesnt spam it)? elegy+slow+para(if applicable)? Once you have all this, you will see how easy taking him on will make things. By the way his stomp lowers your defense, im not sure if you got hit with it previously but could explain why it hit you that hard. Genbu is lol because of his permagravity affect he has on him, any job w/o movement speed can kite him endlessly. Like all turtles hes annoying if anything, not hard, just annoying, his breaths move go through shadows doing 400-600 damage like any turtle does. Poisonga can be annoying to stun if you arent up for it, causing an easy Headbutt/stomp from him w/o shadows if you arent ready for it.

As far as what could of been done to prevent it, probably a lot of things. Like I said what kinda support did you have? Why was poison potent, your rdm or/and whm should of taken care of that the moment you got hit, with a cure or better yet a regen II/III. Shield bash/sentinel/rampart(poison negate) could have saved you as well provided that they were up. Was there another tank? If so what was she/he doing? I see no other flashes/cures/support coming from that tank(which leads to believe solo tanking)Its very important for the tanking pt to work as a unit together. A tank is only as good as his support. Theres nothing wrong with dying on pld regardless of the mob. Collect info from the fight(what wasnt done/what was done) apply them to the next flight, learn from experience and this will make you grow over time.


How did the other 2 gods go? any deaths from you? grats on being able to try them out on pld ^^

I recommend building TP to %300 before going in and opening with Spirits Within. It's instant and very good hate. So build your hp at start (Gigant Mantle, Bomb Queen Ring, I use Spaghetti Pescatora and High Breath Mantle) and give it to them at start then jump into your idle gear.

I know plenty about a PLD being about it's support, and in a fledging linkshell yes the support is a bit rocky. Bard was doing good, RDM's were a bit rocky. No WHM whatsoever. Support tank had no chance at getting hate, as they had died during the whole mess of trying to remove the CFH status, and I had been kiting while everybody recovered with constant flashes. Don't think they had the MP to cure either. That was a 16 second timeframe by the way, which is why you didn't see Flash. I know that poisona could of been quicker yes, but I don't know if we even had more than one person with poisona. Every JA was down also.

Because of the CFH it had become a mess, but I suppose the only point I was trying to make is that things can turn bad easily go bad even on Genbu, when straight-tanking him he is pretty much exactly like any other God with perhaps less-powerful TP moves.

Suzaku involved an almost complete wipe when the chainspell stunner failed to chainspell stun, so a couple deaths on him. Things get messy when there is an almost-wipe. Seiryu was well, I was in a sleep-deprived daze and basically flailed my way through those while chatting to somebody on vent so I'm not sure exactly what happened. I think I might of died once in the two battles.

Also Genbu is the first time we've even had a Bard in the linkshell :/ and it was pathetically easy to tank with elegy/slow/march/haste, as you'd expect it to be. I'm not saying I find it hard, it's more like, when things go bad it's not "lol" to die to Genbu. The point of the screenshot is kind of like, in those 16 seconds, I did everything I could and still died.

Anyway yeah who knows. I guess I'm just bitter at the the whole "if you die to Genbu, say your brother was playing or something" mentality. Or the "lol u died to genboob?". Makes me not even want to try and improve my PLD anymore cause I've damned put a lot into it, and done a lot with it, and then to die to Genbu after everybody has said it's lol - yet on the other hand tank Proto-Ultima all the way until Citadel Buster with no probs? (By the way, -24% MDT gear + Shell V + Rampart doesn't work when he still hits you for 1700~ ; ; Totally unfair after I got all that gear. Think he got a total non-resist + light weather bonus. Repeatedly.)

So the point I'm kind of trying to make is tank = support = tank. As you said it's about the tank party. Still makes me down though ._.; And ya I always open with Spirits btw.

/rantystuff

So your death happened after CFH? just trying to see how the timeline to the fight went @_@


Thats not correct, there is no such thing as a resist from damage taken gear, its a straight reduction, no resisting involved. Only when you wear element gear is there a resist factor involved, but for shell/MDT it reduces your damage, not raises your resist rate(unless someone has seen/tested different). You should not be taking 1700 damage ever even with lightsday+double weather with gear/shell/rampart/etc. Something wore or gear didnt go in for the macro :/


Not the right attitude to have, deaths will happen, get over it, see what the problem was, and try to correct it with your shell. Sometimes sh*t happens, nothing you could do to prevent it.


^ and this basically.

-note- I wouldnt try byakko until you guys get genbu/seiryu/suzaku done with a better performance. Hes just nasty the way he was designed, pop him and he comes out with triple attacks right from the bat. I usually pop him as ive seen other ppl pop it and die instantly just from popping him....heh (<3 shield bash)


Byakko: "I am Byakko, Divine Guardian of the West. You mortals are not worthy to feel my fangs, but perhaps you might pro-

*shield bash* Shuddup D:



Edited, Nov 4th 2009 10:59am by hitoseijuro

Frankly, I hate this quote. Replace it with any NM, god, or HNM you want. The only time you're a sh*t paladin is if you fail to learn from what killed you. And, sometimes, that means your support is at fault. Sometimes, it means you are. The only PLDs that bother me are the ones that always blame everyone else for the failed run.

Maybe I didn't have Rampart up or I guess shell V wasn't on. And I may have had only 22% gear on that day, I didn't have my own Merman's so usually borrowed one for that slot =x I know that it was only over my HP by 50-100. Sucked :/

I don't think I'll be doing proto-ultima ever again though, sad I never got to get a victory on him. Oh well, I think 1% twice in a row is close enough x.x; Srsly, such a bastard he is.