So my Pld just dinged 35 today. I recently leveled Dnc to 37 so thought I might aswell get my 32Pld to 37 1) for completeness sake 2) As I had some gear from Dnc (well, actually not that much) and 3) I need some more CP.
I've been mixing it up with some DD gear easly on anyway, and haven't been buying up the proper HQ/Good everythign I usually would (Like Kampf, Buckler etc) As my gil is being used up for other things right now (Brd AF+1 legs this weekend ftw).
But just a few things then,
1) I notice Trump Crown is still listed in the equipment guide as being really good but really expensive - you might need to change that, it cost me 5k.
I'm still using it over Esien/Kampf as I value the HP and MP more than 3Def and 1Agi, but if I was to take Pld over 37, how long do you think it'd last?
In a similar way, how long will my Mithra RSE gloves (MP+16 Vit+4) last? Untill the Acc+3 or Acc+5 gloves maybe? Or will I need to be looking at a Def upgrade befor then?
Also, I notice Republic Subligar is not listed on the gear list? I know Eisen/Kampf are good in this slot, but they only boast 4Def and 1Vit (NQ) over the Subligar, which is arguably the best DD piece for it's level.
Similarly, Warrior's Belt +1 is listed, but not Brave Belt nor Mohbwa's Sash. I've been using the sash for it's MP in the early 30s and I think it has some worth. In truth I've been using it mainly because there wasn't a brave belt available when I was gearing myself up, but I think it should be listed. At least as a piece for the start of a fight that can be macro'd out when you've used up the MP.
I'm using PCC, Rajas and Venerer, and will be changing to PCC/Sniper's x2 at 40 (if I do go higher) along with Tilt>Life>Swift. I'm also using DD earrings (Beetle+1).
If I do decide to level it properly, I'll be looking to get the important stuff, such as Shield Torque, Buckler Earring, Herculese Ring etc, however for EXP mobs, will it be more beneficial keeping this above DD gear in and just using the shield+ for cures and enmity+ for spells/JAs etc?
I'm kind of thinking along the lines of "Stick with what works" by experiance, and this more DD-orientated route is definiely working in the 30s. Hate rarely moves, and it's only ever enough that one cure or voke will bring it firmly back.
That said, I'm also using Berserk almost fulltime. I still time when I put it up based on HP/JAs/Mob/TP etc, usually putting it up just befor a WS, but I'm not taking it off afterwards unless I'm in trouble with low MP. As I usually make sure we're not overcamping I feel the added damage done as well he more damage taken (meaning more HP I can cure myself for) is outweighing the actual danger of taking more damage in the first place. Does that make sense? Do you think it's worth it?
What else was there... I think that was it.
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Pld low level musingsFollow
[HTID]
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
Yet another shameless plug. The equipment section is the closest section to being complete. However, it doesn't have any macro pieces listed yet. It's just the tp build section.
To address one thing specifically, I honestly wouldn't even consider a trump crown as anything BUT a macro piece. Once the mp is used from it, it really doesn't help you all that much. +hp is nice and all, but it has very little use if you aren't sitting on full either. Except maybe to keep the CE loss from being hit lower.
It looks like you're on the right track, though.
To address one thing specifically, I honestly wouldn't even consider a trump crown as anything BUT a macro piece. Once the mp is used from it, it really doesn't help you all that much. +hp is nice and all, but it has very little use if you aren't sitting on full either. Except maybe to keep the CE loss from being hit lower.
It looks like you're on the right track, though.
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
Thanks for the link, giving it a read through.
You missed Askar Body and more importantly Brutal Earring from your gear lists!
You suggest not using Berserk for it's full duration, I guess I'll play it by ear on that one, depending on how much dmage I'm taking.
You missed Askar Body and more importantly Brutal Earring from your gear lists!
You suggest not using Berserk for it's full duration, I guess I'll play it by ear on that one, depending on how much dmage I'm taking.
[HTID]
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
I've got a lot of responses. Yes, you've got the right idea, but you can always improve, amirite? (And reading Dracoth's guide is indeed a good thing to do).
-----------
I don't think trump crown is worth using.
Republic Subligar is indeed the best thing you can be using at that level... arguably up to 55 with royal knight's breeches.
Don't use raja's ring until level 60, and use two mighty rings until level 40 (yes, two mighty rings is better than mighty/venerer).
Use royal footman's gloves until... I don't know, 25 or 30 or something. Then use something with +acc. Your RSE gloves aren't worth much.
Yes, use the sash, but not full time. Warrior's belt +1 is fine really.. there's nothing really exciting for the waist.
I don't recommend using berserk full time, as it really does increase the dmg you take, and I don't think the trade-off is worth it. Unless you're getting chain5 easily without downtime, don't fulltime berserk.
If/when you have access to life/swift belt, always use life belt unless your acc is high AND you have about 25% haste (haste/march would do it). Of course, once you're at 75 you can often default to the swift belt, but not 50-74.
Shield+ is good to have full-time, but its generally accepted that if you're trying to DD, use PCC over shield torque. Buckler you can use full-time, but since I don't have one..... well, do what you want.
Edited, Feb 18th 2009 12:36pm by Illusitaru
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I don't think trump crown is worth using.
Republic Subligar is indeed the best thing you can be using at that level... arguably up to 55 with royal knight's breeches.
Don't use raja's ring until level 60, and use two mighty rings until level 40 (yes, two mighty rings is better than mighty/venerer).
Use royal footman's gloves until... I don't know, 25 or 30 or something. Then use something with +acc. Your RSE gloves aren't worth much.
Yes, use the sash, but not full time. Warrior's belt +1 is fine really.. there's nothing really exciting for the waist.
I don't recommend using berserk full time, as it really does increase the dmg you take, and I don't think the trade-off is worth it. Unless you're getting chain5 easily without downtime, don't fulltime berserk.
If/when you have access to life/swift belt, always use life belt unless your acc is high AND you have about 25% haste (haste/march would do it). Of course, once you're at 75 you can often default to the swift belt, but not 50-74.
Shield+ is good to have full-time, but its generally accepted that if you're trying to DD, use PCC over shield torque. Buckler you can use full-time, but since I don't have one..... well, do what you want.
Edited, Feb 18th 2009 12:36pm by Illusitaru
Illusio - Caitsith
Gandhi wrote:
A man is but the product of his thoughts; what he thinks, he becomes.
Noodles wrote:
Thanks for the link, giving it a read through.
You missed Askar Body and more importantly Brutal Earring from your gear lists!
You missed Askar Body and more importantly Brutal Earring from your gear lists!
I didn't miss it - I intentionally left it off. Haubergeon is better. Haubergeon +1 trumps it. The first is far easier to obtain. The second is the upgrade I personally felt like making (course, I made it at 60... but that's besides the point). Askar body is far from the most helpful piece in the set.
[/quote]You suggest not using Berserk for it's full duration, I guess I'll play it by ear on that one, depending on how much dmage I'm taking.[/quote]
Exactly what you should be doing.
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
You can bet I'll be using brutal when I get there.
Going to agree on askar body, unless your capped ACC without haub haub > askar by far.
Going to agree on askar body, unless your capped ACC without haub haub > askar by far.
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Redding wrote:
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>.<
Brutal should (and is being) added, though. I was specifically referring to Askar.
Brutal should (and is being) added, though. I was specifically referring to Askar.
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
I assumed Askar would only be at it's prime when at capped acc; I've read enough drk and sam topics discussing it's worth to know when at uncapped acc it is worse than hauby.
Are Mighty Rings the best thing to use? Even after Lv40? I will have Sniper's +2 to ding into if I do level pld.
I'm enjoying Pld, but I prefer leveling jobs which I already have ra/ex gear for, which thus are cheaper to level, and although I have some things to ding into (Joyeuse, Askar Head/Hands, Homam Feet, Brutal/Suppa) there is still a lot to buy (the more defensive gear). But I guess we'll see how it pans out.
Actually, on that note, what was the eventual concensus on Askar Manopolas vs Homam Manopolas? Was it: If you have both: TP/Idle in Homam and cast Flash/Cures in askar? Or Were they deemed pretty much equal? Or was one "better" than the other (the argument being 1Haste vs 1Enmity?)
Also, again, an "if" (as is most of this topic actually) I decide to take it over 37, how much time would you consider it worth working on the 2 Gothic pieces befor giving up to continue leveling? Are they invaluable? If so I'll work at them, if not I'll give them a day or so and then give up.
Also, Pld/Dnc is broken on EM or under in the 30s. Seriously.
Are Mighty Rings the best thing to use? Even after Lv40? I will have Sniper's +2 to ding into if I do level pld.
I'm enjoying Pld, but I prefer leveling jobs which I already have ra/ex gear for, which thus are cheaper to level, and although I have some things to ding into (Joyeuse, Askar Head/Hands, Homam Feet, Brutal/Suppa) there is still a lot to buy (the more defensive gear). But I guess we'll see how it pans out.
Actually, on that note, what was the eventual concensus on Askar Manopolas vs Homam Manopolas? Was it: If you have both: TP/Idle in Homam and cast Flash/Cures in askar? Or Were they deemed pretty much equal? Or was one "better" than the other (the argument being 1Haste vs 1Enmity?)
Also, again, an "if" (as is most of this topic actually) I decide to take it over 37, how much time would you consider it worth working on the 2 Gothic pieces befor giving up to continue leveling? Are they invaluable? If so I'll work at them, if not I'll give them a day or so and then give up.
Also, Pld/Dnc is broken on EM or under in the 30s. Seriously.
[HTID]
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
DRG BRD TH4 RNG RDM75
Dragoon Equipment Guide
ArsDraconis wrote:
Ultima spends 10 whole seconds shouting "I'MA FIRIN MAH LAZER" like a 2004 valkurm melee waiting for SC
SAM and DRK can cap Acc FAR easier than PLD can due to 4 points of dex being 3 acc. I would expect it to be more difficult for askar body to win out vs. hauby for a 1-hander. Hence, I'm still going to hold that Askar is one of those pieces that isn't going to see much use for a PLD.
Mighty Rings trump any other rings until level 40 in terms of raw damage increase. There isn't enough accuracy gear for it not to at that point. It's also why Tiger Stole wins out over Spike Necklace until you're at 175ish attack total. At 40, the Snips will serve you far better.
Having R/E gear to ding in to is great, but most gear from 1-70ish is "supplemental." Sure, you spend gil on it now. But, you'll be getting some of that gil back in the very near future when you resell it. As such, it's supplemental or transitory. It just isn't liquidated. It SHOULDN'T be the reason you don't level a job. Also, most of the best gear for PLD IS R/E. And a lot of groups won't let you lot on it until you have PLD leveled. This depends on your shells, though.
Askar vs. Homam comes down to 1 haste vs. 1 enmity. Honestly, 1 enmity won't break you. It gets you a very small return at such a high level. I believe (but haven't done the math to show it yet) that enmity has diminishing returns the more you throw on. Haste, on the other hand, doesn't. So, it comes down to Homam winning out due to the 1 haste. I'd guess that if you were to really optimize, though, you'd want homam for Flash/TP/idle in Homam and Cure in Askar. The haste really will win out since it affects the recast on the spell, letting you get it off faster.
As for gothic - some people have said that having both pieces makes it tremendously beneficial. Having one doesn't seem to be as helpful. I'd recommend getting both or neither.
Mighty Rings trump any other rings until level 40 in terms of raw damage increase. There isn't enough accuracy gear for it not to at that point. It's also why Tiger Stole wins out over Spike Necklace until you're at 175ish attack total. At 40, the Snips will serve you far better.
Having R/E gear to ding in to is great, but most gear from 1-70ish is "supplemental." Sure, you spend gil on it now. But, you'll be getting some of that gil back in the very near future when you resell it. As such, it's supplemental or transitory. It just isn't liquidated. It SHOULDN'T be the reason you don't level a job. Also, most of the best gear for PLD IS R/E. And a lot of groups won't let you lot on it until you have PLD leveled. This depends on your shells, though.
Askar vs. Homam comes down to 1 haste vs. 1 enmity. Honestly, 1 enmity won't break you. It gets you a very small return at such a high level. I believe (but haven't done the math to show it yet) that enmity has diminishing returns the more you throw on. Haste, on the other hand, doesn't. So, it comes down to Homam winning out due to the 1 haste. I'd guess that if you were to really optimize, though, you'd want homam for Flash/TP/idle in Homam and Cure in Askar. The haste really will win out since it affects the recast on the spell, letting you get it off faster.
As for gothic - some people have said that having both pieces makes it tremendously beneficial. Having one doesn't seem to be as helpful. I'd recommend getting both or neither.
Leviathan - PLD90, BLU90, MNK 90, DRG 78
I got gothic set and used both pieces 43-52 (my current level) and I got another 6k xp using af boots and gothic hands.
WIth the set id say it's a 20-30% proc on the ice spikes for 4-10 damage which gets significant. Not much better options in that level range for DD purposes even without considering the spikes and 4 enm to boot!
I LOVED them, made me feel cool and it's a real eye popper for the pt, and looked sexy with my luisant haubert ;D
When I switched to af feet and just had gothic hands on spikes proced MAYBE 10% of the time, was more of a rare treat, you no longer get the 5 atk so they're pretty weak on their own.
BTW I tihnk the para procrate is based on int as it seemed to proc 50% of the time when I used them on my synced down drk and on pld it is much lower proc, I'm not gonna put a number as it's hard to say with mages casting para n such.
That being said I spent about 3 hours getting the feet and about . . . 24 hours of play time at LEAST on the hands, and that is going on my 75 thf and using picks to ensure I opened ever brown casket that dropped.
My friend got the hands in 7 kills, 1 brown casket.... jerk.
Anyway Maybe go out and try at it for a lil bit and see if you get lucky, but I'm not sure they were worth the time and money (spent about 150k on thief tools) that I put into them. I'm just stubborn XD
WIth the set id say it's a 20-30% proc on the ice spikes for 4-10 damage which gets significant. Not much better options in that level range for DD purposes even without considering the spikes and 4 enm to boot!
I LOVED them, made me feel cool and it's a real eye popper for the pt, and looked sexy with my luisant haubert ;D
When I switched to af feet and just had gothic hands on spikes proced MAYBE 10% of the time, was more of a rare treat, you no longer get the 5 atk so they're pretty weak on their own.
BTW I tihnk the para procrate is based on int as it seemed to proc 50% of the time when I used them on my synced down drk and on pld it is much lower proc, I'm not gonna put a number as it's hard to say with mages casting para n such.
That being said I spent about 3 hours getting the feet and about . . . 24 hours of play time at LEAST on the hands, and that is going on my 75 thf and using picks to ensure I opened ever brown casket that dropped.
My friend got the hands in 7 kills, 1 brown casket.... jerk.
Anyway Maybe go out and try at it for a lil bit and see if you get lucky, but I'm not sure they were worth the time and money (spent about 150k on thief tools) that I put into them. I'm just stubborn XD
Mistress Darqflame wrote:
Sorry, anything representing or remotely resembling a dildo is a nono.
gigasnail wrote:
i'm lighting the freak signal here, sara help me out ~
Redding wrote:
Same ol' Sara now with 50% less hidden penis
I'd make just one slight change: woodsman rings instead of snipers. At lv40 losing 20def is a fair chunk while losing evasion is laughable. Could probably make a little gil selling snipers and buying woodsman too.
You still need some defense as a tank, it's just defense food isn't the answer usually (meats, sushi, pizza are better choices, camp/mob allowing). A lot of the DD options in the mid lvls have fair amounts of defense on them but snipers can hurt a little early going. It's also why you shouldn't ride berserk as a tank in exp unless you use it to ws, defender to even out the effect and then cancel defender for another ws and cancel berserk afterward.
Prepare to do some experimentation while you lvl with different gear as you should still remain flexible depending on the mob/camp/pt and whether you really have a choice to overcamp or not (typically in lower lvls you'll overcamp just so you can stay there for a few hours, otherwise you'd outlvl the mobs real fast and have to move or suffer em/t mobs; gets better later as exp/lvl rises).
~Ori
You still need some defense as a tank, it's just defense food isn't the answer usually (meats, sushi, pizza are better choices, camp/mob allowing). A lot of the DD options in the mid lvls have fair amounts of defense on them but snipers can hurt a little early going. It's also why you shouldn't ride berserk as a tank in exp unless you use it to ws, defender to even out the effect and then cancel defender for another ws and cancel berserk afterward.
Prepare to do some experimentation while you lvl with different gear as you should still remain flexible depending on the mob/camp/pt and whether you really have a choice to overcamp or not (typically in lower lvls you'll overcamp just so you can stay there for a few hours, otherwise you'd outlvl the mobs real fast and have to move or suffer em/t mobs; gets better later as exp/lvl rises).
~Ori
Champion's guide to using Berserk in a party:
A. Use Berserk
B. Weaponskill
C. Put Defender up
D. Build 100% TP
E. Drop Defender
F. Weaponskill
G. Drop Berserk
Also, Nood:
Get Buckler+AF Boots, that way you can drop the Shield Torque for a PCC, which helps you hold hate better. Unless your healer is slow or are grossly overcamping, then you might want to put that torque on.
Edited, Feb 27th 2009 2:28am by Cigarman
A. Use Berserk
B. Weaponskill
C. Put Defender up
D. Build 100% TP
E. Drop Defender
F. Weaponskill
G. Drop Berserk
Also, Nood:
Get Buckler+AF Boots, that way you can drop the Shield Torque for a PCC, which helps you hold hate better. Unless your healer is slow or are grossly overcamping, then you might want to put that torque on.
Edited, Feb 27th 2009 2:28am by Cigarman
Midgardsormr
Champion
Champion
Muzaa wrote:
The Paladin Code: First man in, last man out.
Quote:
In a similar way, how long will my Mithra RSE gloves (MP+16 Vit+4) last? Untill the Acc+3 or Acc+5 gloves maybe? Or will I need to be looking at a Def upgrade befor then?
90 BLM ~ Full AFv5
84 DRK
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84 DRK
15 WAR
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"I hear if you close your eyes and hold your breath...but try to push out air anyway REALLY hard....you'll see a bear humping a sheep." ~XvExodusvX
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