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HP down -> HP up -> CureFollow

#1 Jun 06 2008 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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So this is a fairly easy concept and it's been around for a while now I believe. For the people that haven't heard of it, while /nin (You're not taking much damage while shadows are up so you can't cure for hate like /war) you drop your HP+ gear and put it all back on with more HP+ gear. This creates a gap between current and max HP that you can cure. After you've cured you change back to your normal idle gear. Easy enough.

Personally, I haven't made one yet as I'm seriously lacking in the HP+ gear dept. Some of the idle pieces I use have HP and MP so dropping them to cure might be more detrimental than helpful. (Turban, homam, etc.) Another thing to think about would be trying to keep as much enmity as possible while creating a large enough gap for a full cure 3 or 4. Inventory space will also be a limiting factor as PLD seems to be a job that carries around a bunch of sh*t already...

What I'd like to see are some more specifics about the pieces of gear people use for this and how much they're getting to cure total. (Screenshots are always nice) Obviously, this will vary greatly from person to person but it would give people some examples to go by when making their own setups.
#2 Jun 06 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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No SS's because I'm not at home, but my cheap setup atm:

1. HP Down: Star Necklace, Ether Ring, Mana Ring, Settler's Cape (-95 HP)
2. HP Up: Harmonia's Torque, Bomb Queen Ring, Sattva Ring, Resentment Cape, Warwolf Belt
(+105 HP and +95HP from the HP down gear, with a lot of Enmity behind it, I prefer to keep as much Enmity as possibly while just capping normal Cure3s)

You could forgo the Settler's Cape and use HP waist or neck (maybe RSE for some races), I just got lucky that a friend had one laying around so it saved me the 600k on Gigant Mantle.

Cure IV I haven't built for yet, focusing my gil mostly on WAR atm, plus my recent purchase of Assault Breastplate hurt the wallet. I just tend to spam Cure 3 during Sentinel as long my co-tanks can keep up, or if I'm straight tanking.

Edited, Jun 6th 2008 4:15pm by NCCoda
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#3 Jun 06 2008 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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I've never used HP- gear myself, I just add enough HP+ gear to get a good cure III /IV in and then let it drop (cure III macro is invisible gear only, IV is visible too).

Gear used (+HP is over what I normally wear, actual +HP in []):

Head: W.turban (+10) [30]
RSE2 hands/belt (+40 and +25 HP respectively) [60, 45]
BQR: [75]
Neck: Tempered Chain (+13 if I've swapped into it from shield torque) [20]
Back: Gigant [80]
Ear1: Cassie [50]
Legs: AF [15]
Feet: root sabots, +15 [35]

Total: +343 [410]

There's a lot of improvements I could make, if I had more gear, but it works well enough. I could also unequip and re-equip my ethereal and sattva (and other +HP pieces I wear generally), which I don't currently do.
#4 Jun 06 2008 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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There's a pretty comprehensive list of HP+ gear in the sticky, NCCoda did a great job there.

Another option you can consider is using Berserker's Torque for its latent effect of HP drain -50/tick while engaged. Macro it in for 10 seconds or so then hit yourself with a cure3 then macro it out. It takes a bit of getting used to the timing, but once you get a rhythm of macro in/out -> shadows -> cure -> shadows it works quite well.

It also works well at the start of a fight when you can see your enemy. Engage at distance to lower HP by 400 -> macro out torque -> approach enemy -> Sentinel -> Cure IV -> Flash and enjoy the nice initial VE/CE boost.

The torque can also be used to wake yourself up if you get slept, the drain counts as damage.

The overall drawback of using the torque is you are reducing your HP and curing it back (vs increasing your max HP), so you are taking more risk. And the torque itself isn't the most common piece as it is a drop from Hydra.

#5 Jun 06 2008 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I just go Cerberus Mantle, Warwolf Belt, and Sattva + Hercules, and swap on Gigant Mantle, RSE belt, and BQ ring over the Hercules. Thats +215 HP, Cure 3, then swap back to Cerb, Warwolf, and Hercules.

You lose 9 enmity during the cure 3, but you don't blink and with the way sentinel works, you can cap CE and VE in 2-3 minutes anyway, so its not bad.

Our serious tanks swap on Morgana Choker, Serket ring, Ether Ring, Settler Cape, and then swap to Ritter Gorget, Sattva, BQ Ring, and Gigant Mantle for a Cure IV with a net gain of 6 enmity on the Cure IV, then swap back to Parade Gorget, Sattva + shadow, and Cerb Mantle for flash and Idling gear.

Edited, Jun 6th 2008 9:49pm by Asdrabael
#6 Jun 08 2008 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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I would cast banish before sentinel so you get the bonus from sentinel also. Obviously though that's slow as hell so i don't suggest trying to claim with it or anything <.<;

Edited, Jun 8th 2008 7:00pm by ayulove
#7 Jun 08 2008 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I tried to go the mage-friendly non-blinking route. Take off neck, ears, rings, back and waist in 1 macro. re-equip them in a 2nd macro. I'm 1200 ampoules short of a Ritter Gorget atm, and still no Bomb Queen Ring. but I'm i'm done it would look like:

/Equip
Neck Ritter Gorget (+25)
Ear1 Ethereal Earring (+15)
Ring1 Sattva Ring (+30)
Ring2 Bomb Queen Ring (+75)
Back Valor Cape (+40)
Waist Trance Belt (+14)

Making for a perfect non-blink Cure III. A Cure IV would require a bit more work. NCCoda hit the nail on the head for the most part. Morgana's Choker (15k Einherjar Ampoules) also gives another 40 HP to MP. If you're lucky enough to own some Hydra gear, each piece has a decent amount of -HP and +MP also
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#8 Jun 09 2008 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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i actually use this exact method to generate some very solid hate on my pld/dnc. i don't need to worry about the casting times with the waltzes and stuff, so i can just sit there and pound my curing waltz macro for full HP even when i have full hp. i can also do the same for cure III, so i like to hit sentinel, cast flash then toss my curing waltz macro and interrupt the animation with the casting of my cure III. it works like a charm and i've only had one extremely overzealous thf pull hate off of me after using it, and even then it was because i turned around and just stood there after i did that ;).
#9 Jun 09 2008 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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ayulove wrote:
I would cast banish before sentinel so you get the bonus from sentinel also. Obviously though that's slow as hell so i don't suggest trying to claim with it or anything <.<;

Edited, Jun 8th 2008 7:00pm by ayulove


What did i miss? is there a bonus for banish/sential?
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#10 Jun 17 2008 at 2:57 AM Rating: Good
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Using windower macro scripts, I have 3 txt files:

hpdown.txt
input /equip Ear1 "Astral Earring";
input /equip Ring1 "Serket Ring";
input /equip Ring2 "Ether Ring";
input /equip Waist "Astral Rope";
input /echo --- PLD HP DOWN ---

hpup.txt
input /equip Ring1 "Sattva Ring";
input /equip Ring2 "Bomb Queen Ring";
input /equip Waist "Desert Sash";
input /equip Back "Gigant Mantle";
input /equip Neck "Iron Muskeeter's Gorget";
input /equip Ear2 "Cassie Earring";
input /equip Ear1 "Loquacious Earring";
input /wait 1
input /ma "Cure IV" <me>
input /echo --- PLD Cure IV ---

pldtank.txt
input /equip Ring2 "Hercules' Ring";
input /equip Ear2 "Ethereal Earring";
input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
input /equip Back "Cerberus Mantle";
input /equip Neck "Parade Gorget";
input /echo --- PLD TANK GEAR ---

Then setup a macro as follows:

/console exec hpdown.txt
/wait 2
/console exec hpup.txt
/wait 6
/console exec pldtank.txt

This nets me a full Cure IV (383HP) without any visible gear swaps.


Edit: Rated down for trying to provide some useful information. Good job!

Edited, Jun 17th 2008 5:00pm by RedzLak
#11 Jun 17 2008 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Nihcru wrote:

What did i miss? is there a bonus for banish/sential?


His statement was referring to initial CE/VE capping. Since you have to either act directly on the mob or on someone on the mob's hate list to get on the hate list, if you cast banish before using sentinel, you'll be on the hate list when you use sentinel, meaning you get the initial hate from the JA, as well as the bonus.

Banish "Hate listing":

> banish + negligible hate, but now on hate list
> sentinel + hate
> flash + x2 hate
> cures + x2 hate
etc

Normal "Hate listing":

> sentinel +0 hate
> flash x2 hate, now on hate list
> cures, x2 hate
etc
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MargavineLiselle wrote:
Alright, I'm tired of being civil, and now I'm tired of being sarcastically condescending, too.

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Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
#12 Jun 17 2008 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Siralin the Vile wrote:
What I'd like to see are some more specifics about the pieces of gear people use for this and how much they're getting to cure total.


Red removes HP, green adds it. List is not 100% complete, but most good items should be on it.

For non gear blinking slots:
neck:
Morgana's choker -40
Star necklace -15


Rho necklace +30
Ritter gorget +25 +3 enm
Tempered chain +20
Shield pendant +20
Ajase bead necklace +20
Guarding gorget +15


Max HP modification neck: -40||+30 70 HP total

ears:
Astral Earring -25

Cassie earring +50
Intruder earring +40 *Conquest item
Bloodbead earring +25
Physical earring +25
Pigeon earring (+1) +20 (+25)
Stoic earring +20
Crimson earring +20
Ethereal earring +15
Insomnia earring +15


Max HP modification ear1: -25||+50 75 HP total
Max HP modification ear2: -0||+25 25 HP total *note intruder would give 15 more
Max HP modification ears: -25||+75 100 HP total

rings:
active fire/earth/wind/lightning ring -15% HP
Serket ring -50 HP
Vivian ring -50 HP
Ether ring -30 HP
Astral ring -25 HP
Electrum ring -20 HP


Bomb queen ring +75
Bloodbead ring +50
Multiple ring +50 * lvl cap item
Sattva +30


Max HP modification ring1: -50||+75 125 HP total
Max HP modification ring2: -50||+50 100 HP total
Max HP modification rings: -100||+125 225 HP total

waist:

Astral rope -15
Quick belt -15 HP
Mantra belt -10


Racial belts +30-60
Gold moogle belt +3%
Kaiser belt +25
Marid belt (+1) +22(+24)
Koenigs belt +20
trance belt +14 +4 enm


Max HP modification waist: -15||+3% or 30-60 45+ HP total

back:
Settler's cape -30 HP
Thunderer's mantle -1% HP


Gigant mantle +80
Valor cape +40
Lieutenant's cape +40
Behemoth mantle +1 +30
Storm mantle +30 * (+75 in assault)


Max HP modification back: -30||+80 110 HP total

Max HP modification neck: -40||+30 70 HP total
Max HP modification ears: -25||+75 100 HP total
Max HP modification rings: -100||+125 225 HP total
Max HP modification waist: -15||+3% or 30-60 45+ HP total
Max HP modification back: -30||+80 110 HP total
Max HP modification Total -210|| +550 or more HP total
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I do not have pup unlocked.
Ragnarok

MargavineLiselle wrote:
Alright, I'm tired of being civil, and now I'm tired of being sarcastically condescending, too.

lolgaxe wrote:
Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
#13 Jun 17 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Nice info, I've been looking for some advise on this too. Nice post of all the items btw :)

#14 Jun 17 2008 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Very nice post Leonadis, do you mind if I use it (with credit) in my sticky?
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#15 Jun 18 2008 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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NCCoda wrote:
Very nice post Leonadis, do you mind if I use it (with credit) in my sticky?


Go for it; it's not complete, I left out some stuff I considered either hard to get(aka not worth the time to camp/quest) or not worth carrying (some items with just +/- 5-15 hp if there was a cheap alternative). Ffxiah's search function for gear is quite functional, if anyone wanted to look for EVERY item under a list.
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I do not have pup unlocked.
Ragnarok

MargavineLiselle wrote:
Alright, I'm tired of being civil, and now I'm tired of being sarcastically condescending, too.

lolgaxe wrote:
Whining about having to farm is so 2004.
#16 Feb 27 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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RedzLak wrote:
Using windower macro scripts, I have 3 txt files:

hpdown.txt
input /equip Ear1 "Astral Earring";
input /equip Ring1 "Serket Ring";
input /equip Ring2 "Ether Ring";
input /equip Waist "Astral Rope";
input /echo --- PLD HP DOWN ---

hpup.txt
input /equip Ring1 "Sattva Ring";
input /equip Ring2 "Bomb Queen Ring";
input /equip Waist "Desert Sash";
input /equip Back "Gigant Mantle";
input /equip Neck "Iron Muskeeter's Gorget";
input /equip Ear2 "Cassie Earring";
input /equip Ear1 "Loquacious Earring";
input /wait 1
input /ma "Cure IV" <me>
input /echo --- PLD Cure IV ---

pldtank.txt
input /equip Ring2 "Hercules' Ring";
input /equip Ear2 "Ethereal Earring";
input /equip Waist "Swift Belt";
input /equip Back "Cerberus Mantle";
input /equip Neck "Parade Gorget";
input /echo --- PLD TANK GEAR ---

Then setup a macro as follows:

/console exec hpdown.txt
/wait 2
/console exec hpup.txt
/wait 6
/console exec pldtank.txt

This nets me a full Cure IV (383HP) without any visible gear swaps.


Edit: Rated down for trying to provide some useful information. Good job!

Edited, Jun 17th 2008 5:00pm by RedzLak


This is the correct answer, and I'm bumping this thread on purpose because its always good for people to see it.

The diff between this one and mine is
hpdown.txt
input /equip Ear1 "Astral Earring";
input /equip Ring2 "Serket Ring";
input /equip Cape "Settler's Cape";
input /equip Neck "Morgana's Choker";

input /echo --- PLD HP DOWN ---

hpup.txt
input /equip Ring1 "Sattva Ring";
input /equip Ring2 "Bomb Queen Ring";
input /equip Waist "Desert Sash";
input /equip Back "Gigant Mantle";
input /equip Neck "Ritters Gorget";
input /equip Ear2 "Cassie Earring";
input /equip Ear1 "Hospitaler's Earring";
input /wait 1
input /ma "Cure IV" <me>
input /echo --- PLD Cure IV ---

pldtank.txt
input /equip Ring2 "Hercules' Ring";
input /equip Ear2 "Ethereal Earring";
input /equip Waist "Warwolf Belt";
input /equip Back "Shadow Mantle";

input /equip Neck "Parade Gorget";
input /echo --- PLD TANK GEAR ---

Then setup a macro as follows:

/console exec hpdown.txt
/wait 1
/console exec hpup.txt
/wait 4
/console exec pldtank.txt

This nets me a full Cure IV (401HP) without any visible gear swaps.

Edited, Feb 27th 2009 11:33am by Asdrabael
#17 Feb 27 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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That's Good. How often does lag mess that up?
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#18 Feb 27 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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#19 Feb 27 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Mogana's Choker(-40) --> Ritter Gorget(+25) = 65
Astral Earring(-25) --> Ethereal Earring(+15) = 40 + 65 = 105
Serket Ring(-50) --> Sattva Ring(+30) = 80 + 105 = 185
Swift Belt(0) --> Trance Belt(+14) = 14 + 185 = 199 (Cure III)

Ether Ring(-30) --> BQ Ring(+75) = 105 + 199 = 304
Cerb Mantle(0) --> Gigant Mantle(+80) = 80 + 304 = 384 (Cure IV)

Thats my cure macros, my C4 tops out at 386 so im only 2hp short. Plus i can keep the majority of my +enmity gear in aswell.

Edited, Feb 27th 2009 1:29pm by Kygents
#20 Feb 27 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lag has never messed up my Cure swap macro as well.
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#21 Feb 27 2009 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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ive been using these for a while but i dont macro hp down gear. As a taru lowering my max hp is just asking to get one shotted and tarus have access to a crazy amount of hp gear. i just macro in a lot of hp+ gear.

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#22 Feb 27 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Uh, I'm taru and I dunno about you, but I don't fight any mobs that swing for 1200+ damage as a normal matter of course, cause thats my hp after the hp down as taru.

I idle in 1360 hp and have never been 1 shotted by anything but a 8% Tiamat, and that was a mighty strike double attack that did 1600 damage and would have 1shot anyone but a galka or maybe a HP elvaan.

If you know how to tank, you can tank in 1000 hp or less without any issues.
#23 Feb 28 2009 at 12:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Asdrabael wrote:
Uh, I'm taru and I dunno about you, but I don't fight any mobs that swing for 1200+ damage as a normal matter of course, cause thats my hp after the hp down as taru.

I idle in 1360 hp and have never been 1 shotted by anything but a 8% Tiamat, and that was a mighty strike double attack that did 1600 damage and would have 1shot anyone but a galka or maybe a HP elvaan.

If you know how to tank, you can tank in 1000 hp or less without any issues.

Competely agree. I have maybe less than 100 hp more than that tops and Im elvaan and I can say idling in low HP isnt very dangerous. As ive said before anything that can kill you with that amount of HP, most likely could of done it with 1700 and more. Not very many moves in this game that can 1 shot you. And most of them can be either avoided or reduced in damate.

And yea thats about the only thing that has 1 shotted me as well, 2hour tiamat, double attack crit for 900+ both hits.

As far as cure sets, my cure III has me starting with
r1 - ether ring
r2 - serket ring
back - settlers cape
waist - astral rope

macro in -
r1 - hercules
r2 - BQR
back - Cerb mantle
waist - Trance belt

This gives my cure3 a 200+ range(194 is my cap atm w/o hosp earring) without blinking and only sacrificing 2 enmity for it.

Whenever I can get morgana+ritter combo, I can drop the BQR for another emnity ring. I still use BQR for my Cure IVs though.



Edited, Feb 28th 2009 12:38am by hitoseijuro
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#24 Feb 28 2009 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well not so much one shotted but a triple attack proc after an aoe attack could end things quickly.
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#25 Feb 28 2009 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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So basicly, when you fight Byakko, you run a very minor risk of a triple attack after diaga, and you somehow just get amazingly unlucky and none of the hits are blocked AND all land crit, and your healers are all asleep or out of MP and you're out of shihei so because you swapped out 150 hp, you get killed?

I don't know about when you fight Byakko, but last time I fought it in my usual tank gear plus food, byakko only hit me for like 200 a swing. Thats hardly enough to 1 shot me, or even 1 round me, even assuming none are blocked. This is a mob that people used to normally blood-tank with pld/war because he hits so weak, and you're worried about an aoe + triple attack 1 shotting you?

There is no conventional mobs in this game, outside of 1-2, who can legit 1 shot you if you don't prepare. Theres Ultima, which proper gear that every tank who fights Ultima should have which makes you not die. Theres Bahamut, which likewise proper gear, or just tp burning it prevents its special attack. Theres Fairy Ring, and he dies in 20 seconds, and even hes not even a real 1 shot. He just hits 1000 a hit. Other mobs can freak kill you with special circumstances, but those same freak kills also usually do so much damage than they would have killed you whether you had full hp or not, like when I tanked serket inside sandworm the other day and I was recasting Ichi, he double attacked, took my last shadow, then did Venom Sting for 2300 damage to me and 1 shot me.

What it comes down to, is with the monster setup in FFXI, in 99.9% of situations you'll ever encounter, swapping off a couple hundred hp for a macro swap won't kill you unless you literally have no idea what you're doing.

Edited, Feb 28th 2009 8:41pm by Asdrabael
#26 Mar 01 2009 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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Asdrabael wrote:
There is no conventional mobs in this game, outside of 1-2, who can legit 1 shot you if you don't prepare.
Theres Ultima, which proper gear that every tank who fights Ultima should have which makes you not die.
Theres Fairy Ring, and he dies in 20 seconds, and even hes not even a real 1 shot. He just hits 1000 a hit.


I agree with your other points, but this:

Ultima: Never come close to one-shotting me and I idle on him in full DD gear.

Fairy Ring: Never felt the need to even kill him, kill Nahinta (sp?) and farm Gobs over on that side to avoid having to do Cities for AF, and have a RDM/DRK that isn't asleep to stun-lock the boss.

My experiences might differ greatly from your own, but I've never been scared of Ultima one-shotting me. (If you're referring to Citadel Buster though, maybe if you get a Weather Bonus proc, you forgot all your MDB gear, you forgot to hit Rampart, everyone in the alliance with Cure forgets to top you off, and you yourself have 0 MP and can't top yourself off, then sure maybe it'll kill you.)

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#27 Mar 01 2009 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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well the fact remains i dont need to macro in hp down gear to cure myself. i can just stick to hp+ gear and drop a good cure iv on myself. no sences arguing it since its a moot point anyways.
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#28 Mar 01 2009 at 11:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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The point isn't moot. If you are stacking +HP gear to get enough for Cure IV you aren't casting you cures in as much enmity as you can. That is one of the main reasons for using HP down gear. Using HP down gear lets me cast the actual cure in more enmity gear, which makes the cures more effective.

Whether the cost to increase the performance of your cure macros is worth to you is a personal choice, but it's hardly a moot one. And for those who don't blink HP down gear become that much more important due to having fewer slots you can change to achieve the same effect.

Sincerely,
Hankthetank
#29 Mar 02 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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NCCoda wrote:
Ultima: Never come close to one-shotting me and I idle on him in full DD gear.

My experiences might differ greatly from your own, but I've never been scared of Ultima one-shotting me. (If you're referring to Citadel Buster though, maybe if you get a Weather Bonus proc, you forgot all your MDB gear, you forgot to hit Rampart, everyone in the alliance with Cure forgets to top you off, and you yourself have 0 MP and can't top yourself off, then sure maybe it'll kill you.)


He was obviously referring to his 1-shot move. And he stated if your arent prepared you will get one shoted by it. He is just illistrating how easy it can be to avoid being 1 shoted by mobs with proper gear/preparation.

While on his other circumstances he stated how there are somethings you cant prevent getting 1shoted having an additional 100-300 hp in gear.

And what hank said, only limiting your cheat cures to +HP is just limiting the amount of enmity you can stack for a greater gain.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2009 7:21am by hitoseijuro
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