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WAR Abilities and Traits in the June 2010 patchFollow

#1 Jun 17 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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Abilities:

Restraint: (WAR Lv.77 Ability Delay: 10 min. Effect Duration: 5 min.)
Enhances your weapon skill power with each normal attack you land, but prevents you from dealing critical hits.


Traits:

Critical Attack Bonus: (WAR Lv.78) Improves power of critical hits.

Shield Defense Bonus: (WAR Lv.80) Reduces damage taken when blocking an attack with a shield.

Fencer: (WAR Lv.45) Increases rate of critical hits when wielding with the main hand only.
Grants a TP bonus to weapon skills.


My thoughts:

Restraint sounds like it could potentially be useful. Kind of odd though that we're getting both a native trait that boosts damage of critical hits, and yet an ability that prevents us from getting any at all. I guess it all depends on whether or not the loss of criticals is outweighed by the boost in weaponskill power. I can see this being most useful when superbuffed with tons of attack. I wonder what will happen if Mighty Strikes is stacked with Restraint.

Critical Attack Bonus is a nice addition. This will only help to increase our damage, and makes Mighty Strikes even better than before.

Shield Defense Bonus finally gives us a reason to use our AF hands! WAR/PLD gogogogo.

Fencer looks more useful for jobs that will sub WAR at 90, like Paladin in particular. I guess Fencer + Shield Defense Bonus were what SE was talking about when they said they wanted to increase Warrior's ability to tank.

Discuss.
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#2 Jun 17 2010 at 6:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Conflicted. Boosting the damage of critical hits in the same update as introducing a JA that makes it so you can't crit? What? I really wish WAR would get some JAs without downsides for once. Agressor, okay, that's an easy trade. Berserk, fine, as long as we can keep our shadows up. Retaliation, that's a bit obnoxious for what you get out of it, but it's manageable. But no crits of of Restraint really hurts. I loves my crits! The function is odd too. You get a bonus to WS damage for each attack. This seems to strongly suggest a return to Axe/Riddil or Axe/Joy setups over wielding a weapon with one of the longest delays in the game. I was really hoping that we had finally gotten over that nonsense!

The whole shield defense bonus and one-hand only thing are alarming and don't fly with either Great Axe or my proposed "want us to dual wield for Restraint" theory. Fencer I guess seems to be an attempt to make /WAR an attractive subjob over /SAM or /NIN and may not even be meant for us, but Shield Defense Bonus at level 80 WAR? Really????

Mighty Strikes Critical Attack Bonus seems to be the best out of this misguided lot. God, I don't even know.
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#3 Jun 17 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll admit, its a bit perplexing. The increase to critical hit damage makes Mighty Strikes Full Buff Mode™ pretty freaking sweet. Restraint, on the other hand is odd. I guess you can use it for those rare instances where you build TP before a fight, like on Sky Gods and Ground Kings, but does it count all the hits, or does it end per mob? Guess time will tell. It definitely favors multi hit builds, so /NIN might make a comeback if the bonus is decent. Just turn it off and use Rampage/Vorpal Blade I guess. That thought intrigues me.

The shield bonus is still pretty useless, unless its a good chunk of reduction. And even then, Warrior philosophy is to take less damage by making the thing you're fighting dead faster. I guess a mixture of the Critical Hit Bonus + Fencer would be interesting to shield with, I guess.

Want to know just how much Restraint enhances Weapon Skill damage, if it even means damage. Is it extra attack like Berserk, or more fTP or what? That would be kind of hot. Every hit adds another 0.1 fTP to your weapon skill.

It was fTP, right? Its been a while since I thought in depth with this stuff.

Edit: It just dawned on me. If you turn off Restraint to use Rampage/Vorpal Blade, you'd probably lose that damage bonus, making it absolutely pointless. That just kind of dropped it's functionality.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 9:16am by lolgaxe
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#4 Jun 17 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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All these buffs to critical hits yet they make a JA that make them all useless. What concerns me is Restraint is with every HIT you land. This seems perfect for /nin for landing more attacks. Seems like 2-hand vs dual wield will arise once again.
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#5 Jun 17 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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it is odd that they give a crit dmg bonus and a ja that takes it away.

if restraint ends up accumulating the crit damage of a given hit and transferring it onto ws it could get obscene. think about the jt adds dmg to every crit hit but the ja negates crit hits and adds em to ws. pop 2hr, pop restraint, drop 5k ws at end of 30sec, im sure im exaggerating but it could be a plausibility depending on how they work the ability.

#6 Jun 17 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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If Restraint gives an immediate bonus without having to build on it, that's the only way I'll see myself using it. Between base crit rate, crit merits, and the new trait, I'd probably be hurting myself more than helping if I left it on too long. ...I can't prove that. I don't know the math to mentally parse it. I just assume so.

Anyway, no mention of Sekkanoki dropping to 40 with no sub restriction? That's probably the biggest thing we're getting.
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#7 Jun 17 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Davrost wrote:

Anyway, no mention of Sekkanoki dropping to 40 with no sub restriction? That's probably the biggest thing we're getting.


I covered that in this thread. That thread is for stuff that subs will give us. I made this one just to discuss WAR stuff and keep it separate.
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#8 Jun 17 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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There's a chance that the addition of Restraint is meant to be a tanking tool for WARs. Perhaps the additional damage plus the benefits of Fencer are meant to make normally unused weapon skills on WAR be more powerful so that WARs can trade in some of the DD gear they'd normally use for some more defensively orientated stuff. The new 1h Axe WS is elemental right? Maybe they're doing this for that.

Then again, there's no way S-E would even think of that.
#9 Jun 17 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I think there might be a place for Restraint for KJ. As I understand it, KJ doesn't crit without 2hr but still slightly outdoes RR (which crits). For a DoT loss you can seemingly get some serious KJ numbers. Most anything you'd use Steel Cyclone on would have higher def anyway and you'd want the crits in DoT. Maybe, I'm missing something there.


If shield somehow does become viable, WAR/MNK blood-tanking looks like it might actually work. Trading some damage taken for more retaliation DoT and WS. Full time acc bonus for 1h between aggressor/focus. Fencer buffing 1h DoT and Rampage.

Interesting ideas but WAR/SAM is just such a powerhouse, it would really take a lot to make other styles competitive again.
#10vstylz, Posted: Jun 17 2010 at 11:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ROFL @ Erecia Sage
#11 Jun 17 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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WAR update looks awesome. mix of different little useful things, and some bonuses for dual wielding.

caps lock key poster hopefully banned soon.
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#12 Jun 17 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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To me, Restraint sounds like a way to allow WARs to be more effective using weapons other than GAxe and Axe. It's been said quite a few times that if the different combat skill caps continue to grow at their current rate, there will be quite a gap between A+ and B rated skills. Restraint may be what allows WARs to use weapons like Polearms even at level 99.

Edit: nvm. I was interpreting "weapon skill" as "combat skill". Even if that's what they meant, it wouldn't make sense that the ability lasts only 5 minutes with a 10 minute re-use timer, so it wouldn't work as a stance.

Edit 2: Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if the Restraint effect disappears after a single WS. Then it would be a super charged WS once every 10 minutes. After you do a WS to drop your TP down, you could pop Restraint to build up it's power as you build up TP. Then you unleash your WS, after which you go back to your usual crit rate.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 2:55pm by svlyons

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 3:15pm by svlyons
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#13 Jun 17 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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When I saw restraint, the first and only use that came to mind was "Closing Skill Chains with Steel Cyclone" (or the new WS?) Other than that, I won't be touching it unless testing, proof and data come out to say I should be.
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#14 Jun 17 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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maybe they plan to add new merits to cut down the 10min timer, assuming the ability is even worthwhile.

it's looking like the crit abilities will help dual wield a lot, while /SAM GA skews much more towards WS damage and generally has higher ATT (so crits help less). unless the ability totally sucks (which given SE's track record is like 50/50 chance at best), there's a good chance the WS damage increase will be > crits with GA.

also, 1 Pahn Point to the first person who makes a video of themselves at an important zerg fight, where they buff the **** out of themselves, pop mighty strikes, then immediately pop restraint and go in for the zerg. assuming it nullifies mighty strikes of course. additional Pahn Point awarded if the editing/emoting/chat log is particularly funny. all Pahn Points will be taken away and you'll be unable to receive Pahn Points forever if you put some sh*tty nu metal/emo/mall punk song in the background of the video (or comparably stupid song). hilarious japanese hair metal is allowed.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 4:13pm by milich
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#15 Jun 17 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
also, 1 Pahn Point to the first person who makes a video of themselves at an important zerg fight, where they buff the **** out of themselves, pop mighty strikes, then immediately pop restraint and go in for the zerg. assuming it nullifies mighty strikes of course. additional Pahn Point awarded if the editing/emoting/chat log is particularly funny. all Pahn Points will be taken away and you'll be unable to receive Pahn Points forever if you put some sh*tty nu metal/emo/mall punk song in the background of the video (or comparably stupid song). hilarious japanese hair metal is allowed.

What's the ratio of Pahn Points to Schrute bucks and Stanley nickels?
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#16 Jun 17 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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xfillupurcupx wrote:
it is odd that they give a crit dmg bonus and a ja that takes it away.

Yeah, it's almost as weird as giving a job Berserk and Defender.
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#17cheza, Posted: Jun 17 2010 at 5:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The way I see Restraint is that you can't land Critical hits on WS but you can on normal hits.
#18 Jun 17 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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At first I had the same reaction for restraint, but I guess there may be a couple applications for it. If you can still have a forced crit land then obviously when we 2 hour there would be no reason to not pop it off. The other option might be when you are at a fight as /thf and SATASC onto the tanks. These are usually against higher end mobs that your crit rate is lower against and tanks are having some trouble on hate. Being able to unload higher WS's onto the tanks could supplant more hate on them as well as possibly lead to more damage done (obviously depends on the bonus to WS damage). I know this is not the most common situation but a lot of shells still use the /thf SATA method (and if someone says "if you need melee to go /thf your plds/shell suck" you can go f*ck yourself right off a cliff). I'm trying here folks, its gotta have some application or why would they add this? :/

Oh yeah, its SE. Hello almost all War AF/AFv2, non high damage OaT magian weapon, those OaT GA and axe from a few updates ago, and 90% of WS's.
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#19 Jun 18 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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would be awesome if WAR80/DRG40 with ridill turned out to be a contender due to new traits (would actually use wyvern targe). highly doubt it, but would be cool.
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#20 Jun 18 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
would be awesome if WAR80/DRG40 with ridill turned out to be a contender due to new traits (would actually use wyvern targe). highly doubt it, but would be cool.


Wouldn't Sentinel Shield be better than Wyvern Targe?
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#21 Jun 18 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Dynas wrote:
milich wrote:
would be awesome if WAR80/DRG40 with ridill turned out to be a contender due to new traits (would actually use wyvern targe). highly doubt it, but would be cool.


Wouldn't Sentinel Shield be better than Wyvern Targe?


I actually ran a comparison a while back on WAR/SAM(hasso + 19% gear haste) vs WAR/DRG(ridill + 25% gear haste) and they came out pretty close with /SAM winning by a few %. I never gave it a second thought after that, but now seems like it could be viable after the update.
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#22 Jun 18 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
maybe they plan to add new merits to cut down the 10min timer, assuming the ability is even worthwhile.

it's looking like the crit abilities will help dual wield a lot, while /SAM GA skews much more towards WS damage and generally has higher ATT (so crits help less). unless the ability totally sucks (which given SE's track record is like 50/50 chance at best), there's a good chance the WS damage increase will be > crits with GA.

also, 1 Pahn Point to the first person who makes a video of themselves at an important zerg fight, where they buff the **** out of themselves, pop mighty strikes, then immediately pop restraint and go in for the zerg. assuming it nullifies mighty strikes of course. additional Pahn Point awarded if the editing/emoting/chat log is particularly funny. all Pahn Points will be taken away and you'll be unable to receive Pahn Points forever if you put some sh*tty nu metal/emo/mall punk song in the background of the video (or comparably stupid song). hilarious japanese hair metal is allowed.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 4:13pm by milich


I'll throw in 1-3 Jurist points if there are some sort of flashing image references to particularly tasty beer. It better be >8% .
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#23 Jun 18 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Dynas wrote:
milich wrote:
would be awesome if WAR80/DRG40 with ridill turned out to be a contender due to new traits (would actually use wyvern targe). highly doubt it, but would be cool.


Wouldn't Sentinel Shield be better than Wyvern Targe?


yes, by about 2%~, 75% of the time, and about 0% 25% of the time. forgot that item.
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#24 Jun 21 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Good
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Restraint does not wear off after 1 WS, but did wear off at some point, but I didn't see when... And now they made me sync back to 75, cuz Exp was sucking... Poor Skill Ups. Still no Full Cleave at 77 and full merits. 300 is supposedly the magic number I hear?
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#25 Jun 22 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Enilanerda wrote:
Restraint does not wear off after 1 WS, but did wear off at some point, but I didn't see when... And now they made me sync back to 75, cuz Exp was sucking... Poor Skill Ups. Still no Full Cleave at 77 and full merits. 300 is supposedly the magic number I hear?


Any word on how much the percentage increase is?
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#26 Jun 22 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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300 skill is supposedly the magic number.

THF got his at lv 80.

I do not think merits have a influence on this one... Might be level related like the nyzul WSes - lv 80 only.
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#27 Jun 22 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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Just hit 80, and gunna pass the **** out.
Gunna play with full cleave tomorrow.
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#28Hexagram, Posted: Jun 22 2010 at 12:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Geez this forum is fail. How do we have people at level 80, or past the level you obviously get Restraint, and there is zero info on it. Aside from "whelp, I got Restraint!". C'mon son. This is the type of sh*t that gets Alla mocked on other sites.
#29 Jun 22 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Default
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Hexagram wrote:
Geez this forum is fail. How do we have people at level 80, or past the level you obviously get Restraint, and there is zero info on it. Aside from "whelp, I got Restraint!". C'mon son. This is the type of sh*t that gets Alla mocked on other sites.


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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#30 Jun 22 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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Hexagram wrote:
This is the type of sh*t that gets Alla mocked on other sites.


Oh, I thought it was the main forum kowtowing to all the EZmode players and the "I don't play anymore so the only way for me to justify my non-accomplishments is to cry about people that get stuff done."

If that isn't it, I could have sworn it was the one girl who keeps going on about how SMN needs to be buffed, the other 3 who keep going on about how CoP is still too difficult and the set of relics that are still whining about /nin.



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#31 Jun 22 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Fell Cleave is in fact AOE. Seems to be averaging 500-1000 in my merit party.
Also stacks with War Charge, so this leads me to beleive, that restraint + War Charge + Fell Cleave can help kill some of the massive crabs in Walk of Echoes I did earlier?
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#32 Jun 23 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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Enilanerda wrote:
Fell Cleave is in fact AOE. Seems to be averaging 500-1000 in my merit party.
Also stacks with War Charge, so this leads me to beleive, that restraint + War Charge + Fell Cleave can help kill some of the massive crabs in Walk of Echoes I did earlier?


How good is Restraint in your opinion Eni?
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#33 Jun 23 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Dynas wrote:
How good is Restraint in your opinion Eni?

Personally... I feel it's garbage.

In the 5 minutes it was active, I didn't see a single WS that stood out from any others I had done.
Better testing would need to be done, preferable on a single hit WS, on consistent mobs. But for the time being, you won't see me using it. The other 80 War in my ls pt last night had the same results. I watched him use it, and also didn't see any WS numbers differ from the rest of the party. Maybe it's boRked?

The only 2 uses I can come up with, is where you build 300tp, and close a Skillchain, but... it only last's 5 minutes. I don't know about you guys, but it takes my shell more than 5 minutes to build TP, port up, and actually pop a sky god. So that use is gone. The only other use, that I see being a possibility now, is Fell Cleave in dynamis or Walk of Echoes. Then you're only sacrificing crit's on 1 mob, to boost your damage on multiple mobs for the WS. That's the only scenario I can currently come up with. This isn't to say there aren't more, I just personally can't think of any.
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#34 Jun 23 2010 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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Enilanerda wrote:
Dynas wrote:
How good is Restraint in your opinion Eni?

Personally... I feel it's garbage.

In the 5 minutes it was active, I didn't see a single WS that stood out from any others I had done.
Better testing would need to be done, preferable on a single hit WS, on consistent mobs. But for the time being, you won't see me using it. The other 80 War in my ls pt last night had the same results. I watched him use it, and also didn't see any WS numbers differ from the rest of the party. Maybe it's boRked?

The only 2 uses I can come up with, is where you build 300tp, and close a Skillchain, but... it only last's 5 minutes. I don't know about you guys, but it takes my shell more than 5 minutes to build TP, port up, and actually pop a sky god. So that use is gone. The only other use, that I see being a possibility now, is Fell Cleave in dynamis or Walk of Echoes. Then you're only sacrificing crit's on 1 mob, to boost your damage on multiple mobs for the WS. That's the only scenario I can currently come up with. This isn't to say there aren't more, I just personally can't think of any.


Since it's based on how many hits are landed, have you tried it with DW yet? For that matter, why not try Polearm too. Penta can't crit, Restraint might be more worthwhile on Polearm setups. (I'm 14k tnl and will test once i get there).

Edited, Jun 23rd 2010 6:42pm by Dynas
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#35 Jun 23 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Keleon did a Steel Cyclone tester with Restraint on a DI and tested Mighty Strikes use with it as well.

He TPd on chaff mobs as WAR/SAM and used the WS on Dark Ixion.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2568/img20100622202932.png

Mighty Strikes will override the inability to crit on Restraint.
#36 Jun 26 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Pahn Point potential squashed;_;.
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#37 Jun 29 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Played with restraint during some MMM exp as war/sam synced to lv77. Used a mixture of RR and KJ, though more KJ for potential sc with a drg. Just not noticeable at all for this application (tp burn w/6hit)... Dmg looked pretty similar with and without it up, both RR and KJ. Unfortunately I didn't have my axes with me, but I was more concerned with skilling up gaxe anyway.

Reminds me, my previously all-capped combat skills on war are no longer capped... Must regain blue numbers...
#38 Jun 29 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I reached level 80. I am not sure if this was mentioned already, but WAR got another trait that wasn't mentioned on the update, a hidden buff -> Shield Mastery. I was surprised.

At level 80, WAR gets both Shield Defense Bonus and Shield Mastery, which does make sense.


Edited, Jun 29th 2010 5:27am by NRsssNR
#39 Jun 29 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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NRsssNR wrote:
At level 80, WAR gets both Shield Defense Bonus and Shield Mastery, which does make sense.
Well, more power to /DNC and an OAx weapon that way. Still can't think of any practical applications beyond solo~trio situations for using a shield on Warrior, though. Even then I still believe that, as Warrior, its more efficient to just kill things faster. Nice bonus, though. Good discovery.
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#40 Jun 29 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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orinthia wrote:

Reminds me, my previously all-capped combat skills on war are no longer capped... Must regain blue numbers...


I understand you. that is feeling so... wrong. Im not completely proeficient in kitchen sink fighting anymore, wtf?
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#41 Jun 29 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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So, now that a lot of us have gotten Restraint, I'm wondering how exactly it's enhancing WS power since it seems entirely useless. I'm wondering if it's some sort of fTP bonus or something to that effect.
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#42 Jun 30 2010 at 1:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Archain wrote:
Mighty Strikes will override the inability to crit on Restraint.


Another very useful tool for when we zerg. I can't wait to try it out.
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#43 Jun 30 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Good
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I played with Restraint a little bit in Einherjar earlier, Not much due to everything dying so fast and not getting to do it consistantly on mobs, but numbers were mostly if not all lower by 100-150 with Restraint on. I use Manny/Ridill Build, I'll have to play with it on Lesser Birds sometime this weekend
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#44 Jul 01 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
Ok so I don't have really awesome gear and such but i tried playing around with Restraint in Campaign and did not see diddlysquat difference in my WS. Does it build up and then work on the WS while its active or release after it wears off on the first ws you do?
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Sorka of Seraph now Bismarck
Mithra / F
WAR90 PLD90 DNC90 BLM90 RDM90
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#45 Jul 04 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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if you want to test restraint, do it vs lv1 mobs first. if you need help on what your max damage should be w/o it, post your stats and ask here. such tests may have already been done on bg; i haven't checked.

Edited, Jul 4th 2010 6:24am by milich
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pahn
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