Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Subjob QuestionFollow

#1 Apr 02 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
44 posts
I've recently came back after a 2 year break. I am thinking about taking warrior to 75 and beyond. But I'm a little confused as to what subjob I should use. I did a /sea all warr on my server and most lvl 75 warrs was /dnc /nin and /mnk. I've looked around this forum but it seems that all the info is from 2004 so I'm not sure if the info is still up to date. Why would I need /nin? I'm using a Great Axe and since I'm not tanking I see no need to have Blink. As for the rest I just don't know. Thanks for any info anyone can give me.
#2 Apr 02 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
211 posts
/NIN for damage mitigation. Dual wielding Axe/Sword, Axe/Axe, sword chucks.

/SAM for boost to DD potential/pseudo damage mitigation.
#3 Apr 12 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Default
*
64 posts
funny i'm in the same boat, all the info seems outdated. whatever happened to thf as a sub?

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 10:30am by GreySoulZ
____________________________
R.I.P. - 75sam/75mnk/75rdm/75smn Server: Unicorn
New Beginning - 60war Server: Bismarck

#4 Apr 12 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
4,681 posts
It's still used as a sub, for farming low level crap. Also in a very few fights where you just TA WS, but that strategy is not exactly common any more.

____________________________
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#5 Apr 12 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
****
7,129 posts
/NIN, /SAM, and probably /DNC for good measure.

/NIN is good for Utsu, or if you want to dual wield for some reason.

Quote:
Why would I need /nin? I'm using a Great Axe and since I'm not tanking I see no need to have Blink.


Because if you're doing good damage, you will be tanking at least part of the time. Whether or not /NIN is justified tends to come down to whether you expect to be tanking for extended periods of time, and/or against things that Third Eye won't block, such as magic.

Depending on the party setup, you may be expected to 'voke and split tanking with another DD/etc. XP parties, and certainly merit parties, don't have a "tank". Many other activities will use DD/NIN's as tanks (Nyzul, Salvage, many Limbus runs, some Dynamis zones, etc).


/SAM offers some great offensive gains, and still offers Seigan/Third Eye for those oh shi- moments (though you won't get Seigan from /SAM until 70). Generally speaking, this is your subjob to maximize damage output with a 2h weapon for higher levels. The only real question becomes whether or not it's manageable for your party setup/event. Seigan/TE is not as reliable as Utsu, there's only one timer, and there are different tradeoffs...TE won't absorb magic, but it will count multi-hit moves as one block, etc.


/DNC is your best pick for solo, or possibly low manning something. Again, basically no offensive bonus (well, you get some enfeebles n' ACC bonus), but rather than avoid damage, you can use TP to get HP back. For lower end stuff, this can keep you alive, at the cost of WS rate.


/THF technically still could have a use, but not usually.
____________________________
•• Isiolia - Mithra - Pandemo... Asura FU SE ••
RDM BLM BST BRD NIN WAR PLD DNC BLU
#6 Apr 12 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
*
64 posts
i'm at lv 52 now..should i be prepared to use rampage from 55-60? or should great axe be used anyway?
____________________________
R.I.P. - 75sam/75mnk/75rdm/75smn Server: Unicorn
New Beginning - 60war Server: Bismarck

#7 Apr 12 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
****
7,129 posts
You "can", but GAxe is still solid in that range (perhaps doubly so since you'll be on food-stealing Colibri in all likelyhood).
____________________________
•• Isiolia - Mithra - Pandemo... Asura FU SE ••
RDM BLM BST BRD NIN WAR PLD DNC BLU
#8 Apr 13 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Good
***
3,959 posts
GreySoulZ wrote:
whatever happened to thf as a sub?
People stopped being retarded and realised there's more to killing mobs than dumping one massive e-peen WS. Now it's about dumping lots of big WS, with lots of good standard attacks to back them up, while stacking enough Haste during the TP phase to bring you to your next WS faster.


/NIN = general utility, whack things as hard as you like while maintaining damage mitigation through shadows
/SAM = balls-to-the-wall damage, faster WS spam, very nice for things that don't have an AoE that can be blocked by shadows but not Seigan (Of course, if an AoE will ignore shadows or erase them all while damaging you, then it's moot)
/DNC = solo, campaign
/THF = Dumping a WS on Genbu? That's really all I can think of.
/MNK = stop using this after about 30


Edited, Apr 13th 2010 3:24am by Lucinus
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#9 Apr 14 2010 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
*
64 posts
good info, one last question. i'm being told to level polearm for birds, any truth to that?
____________________________
R.I.P. - 75sam/75mnk/75rdm/75smn Server: Unicorn
New Beginning - 60war Server: Bismarck

#10 Apr 14 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,959 posts
Sort of, but not really until DLY:480 polearms come in. Anything with a lower delay will also have a lower base damage (meaning weak WS), and coupled with the Attack and Accuracy drop from A+ to B- skill ratings, this sort of polearm is not worth it. I personally disapprove of the sort of WAR who sees Lessers and takes out a DLY:396 spear, mostly because Great Axe damage can comfortably keep up with piercing bonus in my opinion -- remember, it's a base damage drop as well as a skill one.

I'll let actual WARs answer this but I suspect the answer is probably "only if you've got a broken Gondo or an Engetsuto, but no Perdu". The reason SAMs do it is because Great Katana is so horrible on birds, and they can get very easy 5-hits with a weapon whose base damage is comfortably higher than Hagun's (not to mention Penta's a better WS than Gekko for, at least, birds and small stuff). When your main weapon's base damage is somewhere in the 90s, it's less clear cut.

Edited, Apr 14th 2010 11:48am by Lucinus
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#11 Apr 15 2010 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,961 posts
Lucinus wrote:
...The reason SAMs do it is because Great Katana is so horrible on birds...


Um...GAX dmg = slashing, Great Katana dmg = slashing (and I'm referring to slashing vs. piercing vs. blunt here).

How exactly would a GKT suffer any more than a GAX?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Obviously, birds are weak to piercing, but that's not what I'm confused about here. SAM and WAR both have B- in PLM compared to their A+ in GKT and GAX respectively.
____________________________
Current games:
FFXI: Yzerman on Bahamut server
DOTA2: rslogic
#12 Apr 15 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,959 posts
Roller wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
...The reason SAMs do it is because Great Katana is so horrible on birds...


Um...GAX dmg = slashing, Great Katana dmg = slashing (and I'm referring to slashing vs. piercing vs. blunt here).

How exactly would a GKT suffer any more than a GAX?
A valid question. Hagun, no matter how much the martial bonus affects its WS output, swings as a D:75 weapon, patently weaker than Engetsuto's D:85. Additionally, Penta Thrust is better than the Big Three on birds.

Just from swapping weapon damage ratings, we're seeing a 13.3% increase in overall damage. I won't assess Delay, piercing, or anything else there. Skill will come into it and it's gonna bite said SAM in the ass, but let me explain why this is less important.

Obviously, for a SAM, Store TP is pretty darn important, much more so than for other jobs. If a SAM has to drop STP in favour of Accuracy gear for a polearm build, bully for him, because he can get a 6-hit just out of two Store TP merits. Should he then go for a 5-hit, his damage shoots up because he's dropping WS about 20% faster (and given the existence of Hachiman hands, getting into 5-hit territory isn't an especially difficult task).

So for a SAM, polearm's a much better choice.

On the other hand WAR already gets weapons with higher base damage than polearms. Perdu's D:96 for example. Again, looking entirely at base damage, you're losing about as much from swapping to Polearm as SAM gains from ditching the Hagun. Skill also becomes more of an issue here, because you're losing base damage, you're losing skill (therefore Acc and Att), and you have a harder time making that up through Store TP because you have to work harder to maintain your 6-hit (and, correct me if I'm wrong, you probably can't get enough of it to even make a stab at a 5-hit without relying on multiple WS hits; moot if you get Feather Tickled). I'm not convinced that the piercing bonus makes up for that.

Additionally, Raging Rush and King's Justice are at least comparable with, if not stronger than, Penta -- more so since you're starting off with a bigger weapon.

Again, I will leave it for proper WARs to answer this properly -- I just drink here -- but hopefully that at least goes partway towards answering your question.
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#13 Apr 15 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
*
64 posts
just as a tid bit, i'm speaking in reference to being level 55, not so much a meripo party or a higher level group. if i shouldn't worry until delay on a polearm is 480, then that won't be until like level 70?
____________________________
R.I.P. - 75sam/75mnk/75rdm/75smn Server: Unicorn
New Beginning - 60war Server: Bismarck

#14 Apr 15 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
***
3,959 posts
Correct, because your average greataxe at lv.55 will be around D:80 (Schwarz Axt at 56 is this, Darksteel Voulge at 55 is D:81, Leucos Voulge at 50 is D:79) whereas your average WAR-usable polearm at 55 has a D in the low 60s. The damage gap is even bigger both in percentages and in raw numbers.
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#15 Apr 17 2010 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
when i went thru lvling war i pretty much used polearm 54-65ish (whenever u decide to go to imps) and even in bird pts and get better results. granted i have 4 pole merits to no GA merits but even 55-60 with the weaker battle fork i was putting out 600-1k pentas compared to 300-400 sturmwinds. didnt have a parser running for the low lvl pt but i can tell u at 75 ive outparse well geared drgs(zahaks,heca legs, etc) with a pole build on war at birds, even tho i was /sam and rode hasso and retaliation the whole time lol....as far as the GKT vs pole on sam in a bird pt ur fighting mobs with not so high def and (should be) getting some type of attack buff which helps penta a decent bit and does **** for YGK....if ur not getting any type of attack buff /drg it up and use a GKT....but to answer ur question, at least in my experience as war, if ur fighting a mob weak to piercing rock a polearm =)

Edited, Apr 17th 2010 5:31am by BiggHowie
#16 May 02 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
*
64 posts
i'm 60 now, and have partied with a few wars using poles. they completely decimate my damage if i'm using a GA. i can't stand that embarrassment anymore, so i'll be leveling my pole. i'd like to see how raging rush does though, but i don't even know when i'll graduate to higher level birds that i can use it on. i'll be stuck in the 50s for a few more levels i think ;p

forgot to mention, dual wielding axes with rampage is quite good with the right buffs. my rampages were anywhere between 600-950 without much loss to my dot.

Edited, May 2nd 2010 4:02pm by GreySoulZ
____________________________
R.I.P. - 75sam/75mnk/75rdm/75smn Server: Unicorn
New Beginning - 60war Server: Bismarck

#17 May 02 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Yeah, 55-60 penta absolutely destroys Sturmwind. There's rampage as well, but you need to have axe skilled, and I never did. Raging Rush didn't start coming into it's own until the low/mid 60s.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#18 May 06 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
****
4,154 posts
Lifted straight from my guide in the sticky:
Quote:

/mnk. the tried-and-true warrior subjob, monk can be used effectively from level 1 to level 37. THIS IS THE ONLY SUBJOB YOU SHOULD USE IN PARTIES UNTIL AT LEAST 20s. good boosts to str, dex and vit, along with a sizeable HP increase and a slew of useful JA's and JT's make /mnk the preferred subjob of most warriors when starting out. early on, boost provides a welcome attack increase along with some extra hate to hold aggro with, while providing passive abilities such as counter and HP boost that further increase the power a warrior has while tanking. its the cheapest, most effective way for a warrior to kick **** and take names pre-30, and its pretty fun to level as well.


/nin is what you will be using most from 37-75 probably. It allows you to comfortably go nuts with your damage, while not worrying about pulling hate as you will be able to remain untouched for up to 6 hits with one of Nin’s spells, Utsusemi. Utsusemi creates three shadows of the user, and these three shadows are used to absorb attacks directed at the warrior. Once the first 2 have been taken, start casting and as the third goes you will finish, having another 3 shadows ready and waiting for the mob. If your tank can’t get hate back after 6 shadows, you’re party isn’t exactly ideal.
These attacks can be physical or magical in nature, but they must be a single target. -ga spells of any kind will negate the effect of Utsusemi and erase all of your shadows.

The second big thing about /nin is the ability to use dual wield. This JT allows a warrior to use two 1h axes while decreasing the overall delay on those axes. Post-50, when a war/nin gains access to the second dual wield trait, the war/nin becomes capable of dealing great damage over time. The decrease in delay at 50 makes dual-wield very viable. Before this it's not recommended.

Proper party configuration and cooperation allows the utsusemi of the war/nin to be used without interruption, allowing massive amounts of damage to be absorbed and thus saving a huge amount of MP when hate is shared between the party members. a good war/nin can perform in the absence of a pld or nin as a reasonably decent offensive tank. This can be especially effectively utilized with a second war/nin in the party, sharing hate to help you recast shadows. Don't expect to go without downtime though, it just won't happen.

At 74-75, with the second utsusemi spell, war/nin is widely regarded as one of the best merit tanks in the game, due to the warrior’s natural ability to deal great damage while absorbing almost every hit directed at him.
It’s important to remember that just because you are war/nin, it’s not essential to use Dual Wield. It’s fine to use Great axe too, and until 48, it will always outperform 2xAxes. Keep axe capped, but use Great Axe most of the time to 50. Then it’s a matter of preference.


/drg is a fun subjob, but offers nothing in the way of damage mitigation like /nin or the vit/hp boost of /mnk.
If you are confident that your tank will hold hate no matter what you do to the mob, this is a nice job combination after level 30. You get jump at 20 which will give you small damage boosts and tp, and an accuracy boost eventually at 60.
More importantly, you get access to wyvern earring, giving you haste+5%, and wyvern mantle giving you a hefty att bonus. These two items make /drg a very viable choice for DDs. I wouldn't use this before 30, as you won't have the wyvern gear. I prefer /mnk 1-30, and /drg after 30-50 if you want just pure DD.

/sam takes over from where drg leaves off at level 50. If you are confident in your tank’s ability to hold hate, /sam with hasso (and TE for emergencies I guess) is absolutely fantastic, and allows you to wear other gear in the slots taken up by wyvern gear as /drg. At level 60 a war/sam gains access to meditate, allowing the war/sam to gain 60 TP over the course of five seconds which is a great bonus ever 3 mins allowing 2 weaponskills in rapid succession.
At 70, you get seigan and third eye, and as much damage mitigation as you will ever need with a good tank, making this the ideal subjob for war in a good party 70+. The security of /nin is hard to beat though.


/thf, /whm, /pld, /dnc:

All of these have situational uses, but in a party? NOT EVER. PROMISE ME. NEVER.
____________________________
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
#19 May 06 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
*****
15,262 posts
Mojo: I think people deliberately don't read stickies by me because I'm such an **** Smiley: grin
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#20 May 06 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
****
4,681 posts
Nah Nil, people don't read my RNG sticky either, and I'm not an asshole. Oh wait...

lol at, "The sticky hasn't been updated in 2 years". Neither has some jobs.
____________________________
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
#21 May 06 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
*****
15,262 posts
Cyth wrote:
Nah Nil, people don't read my RNG sticky either, and I'm not an @#%^. Oh wait...

lol at, "The sticky hasn't been updated in 2 years". Neither has some jobs.
I know right? People are retarded. Smiley: facepalm

Seriously, I think the only people who read my stickies are the ones who hate me so much they **** their underpants when they see so many posts in the same place. Smiley: laugh
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#22 May 06 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
I did /MNK to 30, /DRG to 50, /SAM to 75.

On very rare occasions (maybe 4 or 5 total) I had a party request I sub /NIN, and I did it on my own a few times in the 50s and 60s just because of how insanely powerful polearm WAR is in that range.

Shield Break doesn't pull as much hate and allows everyone else to DD better, making /DRG a hair less dangerous, but I still found I could put out 400+ dmg in a few seconds with hit -> jump -> shield break.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (18)