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#1 Mar 02 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Last Friday I was about to drop my Axe merits (have not used Axe in over a year) for some polearm for my Drg and upcoming Sam. I am sooo glad I did not.

Once we get access to another tier Dual wield, wonder if its worth redoing my ACP body to do dual weild and acc. (currently have it speced for pld)

8% Dual Wield incrase > GAX?
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#2 Mar 02 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Will close the Gap, certainly. I doubt it'll pull ahead though.
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#3 Mar 02 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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it looks as if it may pull ahead axe war/nin vs gaxe war/nin. innin will help out 1hd weapons more because they need more acc to begin with. ie, if gaxe only needed 5acc to cap but axe needed 15acc to cap, innin will give axe more acc. they both end up at the same place (capped acc) but if you compared both sets with innin on compared to innin off, axe will be closer to the gaxe with innin on.

i doubt axe war/nin will catch up to gaxe war/sam though, especially if they add in sekannoki like they said.
#4 Mar 02 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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An additional tier of Dual Wield and Innin will definitely bring a Dual Wield build up a notch or two, that goes without question.

This goes to everyone in general, but I'd hold off changing combat merits for the time being. With how skill levels are calculated, who knows how things are going to end up. So far, at least to me, it looks like a giant mess.
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#5 Mar 02 2010 at 10:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I definitely agree with waiting too. The difference between A+ and A- weapons could be very difficult to make up at level 99 when the gap is going to be much higher.

I'm really interested in what adjustments SE will make to adjust.

BTW: I suck on the math side, my main skill involves whacking things in the head over and over and over and over, let me know if I can help on the data collection side.
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#6 Mar 03 2010 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Lets not forget that atributes will rise too, and 2 handers get more from STR/DEX than 1 handers.

All i see is a mess.
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#7 Mar 03 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
Before I quit last time I still switched to axe/joyeuse now and then in merits because it was fun. I wish I had a Ridill though. Swordchucks 4ever. Smiley: sly
Honestly I still need a better axe than Byakko's. I'm far away from getting a Perdu Voulge, and I haven't played since last July. Anything else show up thats decent since then?
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#8 Mar 03 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Honestly I still need a better axe than Byakko's. I'm far away from getting a Perdu Voulge, and I haven't played since last July. Anything else show up thats decent since then?


Agumented GAxe can be. Rune Chopper is better with the right build/support.


I'd also lean towards Sekkanoki being lowered keeping GAxe ahead.

Innin only works for the crits (right now) if you're behind the mob, which doesn't tend to work too well if you're doing good damage.
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#9 Mar 03 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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minor correction, DW3 is 10% reduction, not 5%, so the total delay reduction with DW3, suppa, and ACP body would be 33%.
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#10 Mar 03 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Innin only works for the crits (right now) if you're behind the mob, which doesn't tend to work too well if you're doing good damage.

Well it also gives emn- which helps. Most NIN's seem to think that the emn- outweighs the acc/crit bonus... this said, you are right that it's probably not going to enough to stop us from taking hate and subsequently, we are not going to get the sort of bonus that a THF would for example.

I'm hoping that it will be enough to allow me to not take hate before WS and then use more att instead of acc for RR/KJ.
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#11 Mar 03 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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You guys are all missing the obvious. /RNG......velocity shot
Sure it was a wildly powerful merit before, but now "Aggresive Aim" will have everyone clamouring to level war. I'm buying up all the WAR useable bows now, but I'd thought I'd let you know before I corner this hot market.
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#12 Mar 03 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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Don't forget that job up to level 60, most jobs saw very little difference in skill between A and B. As you get to level 75, the difference in skill gets bigger.

We still don't know how level 75-99 will increase skills for jobs. It could mean that meriting a job B skill in a weapon might not be worth it.

doctorugh wrote:

Quote:
You guys are all missing the obvious. /RNG......velocity shot
Sure it was a wildly powerful merit before, but now "Aggresive Aim" will have everyone clamouring to level war. I'm buying up all the WAR useable bows now, but I'd thought I'd let you know before I corner this hot market.


I seriously hope you are being sarcastic. It wasn't worth it before and it won't be worth it after for a job with D skill in archery. Velocity shot is basically a haste/mini berserk for your ranged attacks while giving you a penalty to close combat.
#13 Mar 03 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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carlcarl wrote:
Don't forget that job up to level 60, most jobs saw very little difference in skill between A and B. As you get to level 75, the difference in skill gets bigger.

We still don't know how level 75-99 will increase skills for jobs. It could mean that meriting a job B skill in a weapon might not be worth it.

doctorugh wrote:

Quote:
You guys are all missing the obvious. /RNG......velocity shot
Sure it was a wildly powerful merit before, but now "Aggresive Aim" will have everyone clamouring to level war. I'm buying up all the WAR useable bows now, but I'd thought I'd let you know before I corner this hot market.


I seriously hope you are being sarcastic. It wasn't worth it before and it won't be worth it after for a job with D skill in archery. Velocity shot is basically a haste/mini berserk for your ranged attacks while giving you a penalty to close combat.


Of course I'm serious. So serious in fact that I've sold all my ranger gear and junked the Rare/EX stuff that war cant use to free up slots for my AA war/rng.
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#14 Mar 04 2010 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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hasso alone should keep GA ahead with enough buffs (and mar*2 + haste shouldn't be that rare). high haste aside, it will all depend on ACC and ATT and such, which will depend on what people's stats are like at the new levels and what kind of things they'll be fighting. and new weapons, i guess. axe/axe should never really beat GA or axe/sword (or possibly sword/sword), since no multihit. more dual wield will help, sure... but chances are it's still down to buffs and other stats that are more or less external to the actual weapon you use.
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#15 Mar 04 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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It ~really~ depends on the skill / accuracy difference between B and A rank skill at that level. Unless SE adjusts how skill levels are handled then most 1H weapons won't be able to touch GAXE due to raw accuracy difference. We're talking 60+ at level 90 and above.

That being said, another level of DW and Innin would be beyond awesome. Innin is +30% crit / accuracy (acc might be +20 though) and -20 enmity. The Crit / Acc only works from behind the monster, but the JA lasts for a long time and can be kept up indefinitely. Try to time your Rampage / Vorpals to get the biggest bonus from Innin, I know NIN's in merits can see a very good return on Jin's with that.

DWIII is 25% delay reduction, Suppa is 5% so without ACP body your looking at 30% delay reduction. This works similar to haste (for DPS) in how its better the more you have of it. 100/70 = 1.428 (42.8%) with ACP body 3% then its 100/67 = 1.492 (49.2%). TP gain might by slightly better depending on the weapon's chosen and where the final TP per hit lands. But delays over 480 and under 200 get a significant bonus to TP gain vs delay.
Sword Chucks
236 + 224 = 460 * .70 = 322 / 2 = 161
0 - 180 5.0 + [(Delay - 180) * 1.5 / 180]
5 + [(161 - 180) * 1.5 / 180] = 5 + (-0.158) = 4.84 [4.8]
100/4.8 = 20.8 [21] hits to 100. With Rajas only,
4.8 * 1.05 = 5.04 [5.0] for 20 hits to 100. Not sure if adding any more sTP would be worth it, unless it came "free" from some better items. Also a full TP return vorpal with sword chucks is 13 TP (5+5+1+1+1), assuming one hit miss's you end up with 88/5 = 17.6 [18] hits to 100.

For actual swing times (DA will have nearly no effect on ridill and only half effect on Joy)
(236/1.91 + 224/1.5) = 123.5 + 149.3 = 272.8 * .70 = 190.96 /2 = 95.48 average per swing. 95.48 * 20 = 1909.6 / 60 = 31.82 seconds per 100 TP (averaged). For four hits on vorpal then 18 * 95.48 = 1718.64/60 = 28.64 seconds between WS. This is without any form of haste.

504 Delay PV = 13.7 TP Per hit. Add /SAM + Rajas + Brutal (assuming PCC over Chiv, is there any other source of sTP that is common?) 13.7 * 1.21 = 16.57 [16.5]. 100/16.5 = 6.06 (effectively a 6 hit if you land at least two hits on RR / KJ, or just wear e.ring or rose strap).
504 / 1.22 (DA + Brutal + Pole + full merits) = 413.11 * 6 = 2478/60 = 41.3 seconds average between WS's. Again this is just a base rate and haste makes this much faster. This also doesn't include the 60 tp from meditate per 3 min.

After that its really hard to figure out which would do what in any situation. DW style weapons get mad fSTR benefits which actually mean more for them then GAXE. GAXE with /SAM gets med and 10% haste from hasso which in a SV situation can let them hit the haste cap. RR/KJ also tend to hit harder then Vorpal does.

How much haste does everyone get from gear? Without super unobtanium items (speed belt / niruta's / dusk +1) how does everyone fare? I'm on Turban + Kitty pants + Swift + Dusk hands / feet (piss boots evade me yet still) for 19% total gear haste.
19 Gear
15 Spell
20 Song
54 for DW, 100/46 = 2.173
64 for GAXE /SAM, 100/36 = 2.777
2.777/2.173 = 1.278 or 27.8% faster for GAXE.

From here on out it depends on camp and what they do with skill. If the formula remains the same then GAXE will win hands down because of the immense acc / atk gap that appears at 90+. If they somehow modify the formula's so there is the same potential difference, then DW is a very strong option.
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