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#1 Feb 28 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vanafest 2010 wrote:
WAR: May get an ability allowing them to tank for a short period of time enhancing their versatility in parties.


Link to twitter feed.
I for one have been waiting for something like this. Hey, pull hate? Who cares! Throw on Retaliation while you're at it and you got yourself a solid setup.
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#2 Feb 28 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Dynas wrote:
I for one have been waiting for something like this.
Something like what? Warrior could already tank.
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#3 Feb 28 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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your sig says 75pld,war.. yet you just now figured out warrior can tank?
it was the first tank class and still very capable of doing it.. how could you possibly level 2 jobs to 75 and not know that lol
#4 Feb 28 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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uh.. lay off the OP guys. It would be nice to have a tanking stance on WAR to improve our tanking abilities. Yes, we "can" tank, but really outside of merits/exp, should we? Right now, WAR is at best a third tier tank. MNK and SAM are better for some situations, while NIN and PLD are better for the rest. WAR is... really not that great for tanking (it could certainly be improved!)

I'm curious as to the nature of the update. Maybe some enhancement to retaliation, like taking half damage from retaliated attacks, and increasing proc rate.
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#5Nilatai the Intelligent, Posted: Feb 28 2010 at 12:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.
#6 Feb 28 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
I know, I take back everything mean I've ever said about SE Smiley: inlove
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#7 Feb 28 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
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Princess Jinte wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
I know, I take back everything mean I've ever said about SE Smiley: inlove
WHERE THE **** HAVE YOU BEEN?!
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#8 Feb 28 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Princess Jinte wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
I know, I take back everything mean I've ever said about SE Smiley: inlove
WHERE THE **** HAVE YOU BEEN?!
AND WHY HAVEN'T YOUS CHANGED YOUR AVATARS?!

I bet its A-.
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#9 Feb 28 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Princess Jinte wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
I know, I take back everything mean I've ever said about SE Smiley: inlove
WHERE THE **** HAVE YOU BEEN?!
AND WHY HAVEN'T YOUS CHANGED YOUR AVATARS?!

I bet its A-.
RL drama owning my life, and I like this avatar Smiley: motz
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#10 Mar 01 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
You're still going to have more Martial Arts traits and just generally be better, though. I don't see PUP on Destroyers.
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#11 Mar 01 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Default
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Lucinus wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
MNK was better. I see PUP overtaking us thanks to this update.

I mean, jump from C to A skill? That's f*cking retarded.
You're still going to have more Martial Arts traits and just generally be better, though. I don't see PUP on Destroyers.
The thing is giving PUP this massive update has once again f*cked up the game balance. On the same scale as the huge SAM buff did.

Meh.
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#12 Mar 01 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Default
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Wouldn't the update make the current A level of H2H for Monk higher thereby keeping it still relatively more than PUP? Am I missing somewhere where PUP gets better but MNK stays the same?
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#13 Mar 01 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Assuming the current scheme of (roughly) five skill levels per job level for A+ and four for A-, at 99 it would be 396 for A+ and 365 for A-, give or take one or two.

Somehow, I can't see that working out in the long run, so we can look forward to Square fumbling with the combat mechanics again.
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#14 Mar 01 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Default
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TheBarrister wrote:
Wouldn't the update make the current A level of H2H for Monk higher thereby keeping it still relatively more than PUP? Am I missing somewhere where PUP gets better but MNK stays the same?
PUP can now break 300 skill. Which is a base damage increase in Hand-to-Hand terms.

They just got a massive boost to their damage potential. I don't seem to remember the (good) PUPs sucking all that badly when it came to merits. Yet they get a massive buff and MNKs are stuck holding our ****

Milich sums it up I think:

milich wrote:
the annoying thing about this update (and also about crybaby PUPs) is posters like this who have apparently been playing for about a year and don't remember when MNK was an loljob that made all its own parties. we've received no notable updates since that time, either. i never had sympathy for PUPs (except for the horrible AI that @#%^ed with soloing; SE should have fixed that immediately). i like PUP. i dislike people who clamor for things that make the game worse, and then get them.
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Solrain wrote:
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#15 Mar 01 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Aren't they going to up the level cap in an update or two? So doesn't that mean MNK will get over 300 Hand to Hand as well?
#16 Mar 01 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
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Attrebus wrote:
Aren't they going to up the level cap in an update or two? So doesn't that mean MNK will get over 300 Hand to Hand as well?
Yes. We've wanted to break 300 H2H for years.

PUPs whine about not getting parties over and over and they get it before we do? Seems like BS to me.
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#17 Mar 01 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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i dont think you have that much to worry about.

back when 1hd was the way to go, bst had the same skill level, same weaponskill, and same equipment as war, and they had a pet. yet they never took wars place in parties...
#18 Mar 01 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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iknoweverything wrote:
i dont think you have that much to worry about.

back when 1hd was the way to go, bst had the same skill level, same weaponskill, and same equipment as war, and they had a pet. yet they never took wars place in parties...


Not to derail the thread but BST also did not have snarl as such they would have to sub /nin. No DA or Zerk, and lets not even get into merits...

BST can be a good DD, but the comparison of Bst to War and Mnk to Pup is not a good comparison.

Pup when properly played is already powerful.
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#19 Mar 02 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Default
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iknoweverything wrote:
i dont think you have that much to worry about.

back when 1hd was the way to go, bst had the same skill level, same weaponskill, and same equipment as war, and they had a pet. yet they never took wars place in parties...
I guess. It's still a spit in the face, though. I'm tempted to stop inviting PUPs out of principle. Smiley: sly
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

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#20 Mar 02 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wars have 3 short-term tanking abilities already. They are called:

- Raging Rush
- Seigan
- Third Eye
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#21 Mar 02 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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TheKhory wrote:
Wars have 3 short-term tanking abilities already. They are called:

- Raging Rush
- Seigan
- Third Eye
You sir, get a cookie. Smiley: cookie
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#22 Mar 02 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
TheKhory wrote:
Wars have 3 short-term tanking abilities already. They are called:

- Raging Rush
- Seigan
- Third Eye
You sir, get a cookie. Smiley: cookie
You missed Retaliation. Shit's hilarious in Nyzul.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 11:44am by Lucinus
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#23 Mar 04 2010 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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Lucinus wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
TheKhory wrote:
Wars have 3 short-term tanking abilities already. They are called:

- Raging Rush
- Seigan
- Third Eye
You sir, get a cookie. Smiley: cookie
You missed Retaliation. Shit's hilarious in Nyzul.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 11:44am by Lucinus
Provoke says hi.

Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
iknoweverything wrote:
i dont think you have that much to worry about.

back when 1hd was the way to go, bst had the same skill level, same weaponskill, and same equipment as war, and they had a pet. yet they never took wars place in parties...
I guess. It's still a spit in the face, though. I'm tempted to stop inviting PUPs out of principle. Smiley: sly


love you too, nil.

Also, remember that you're still far and away better off in terms of gear choice, and also, pup is a lot harder to play well, and gear well. Even with the A- h2h, the number of pups you'll actually have to worry about beating you are pretty much the same as now, maybe a little higher.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#24 Mar 05 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I **** off some PUPs with my posts in this thread. Smiley: laugh
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#25 Mar 05 2010 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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Princess Jinte wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
TheKhory wrote:
Wars have 3 short-term tanking abilities already. They are called:

- Raging Rush
- Seigan
- Third Eye
You sir, get a cookie. Smiley: cookie
You missed Retaliation. Shit's hilarious in Nyzul.

Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 11:44am by Lucinus
Provoke says hi.
The last few times I did Nyzul, it was with a WAR in my LS that was essentially raping the parse (not that anyone was bothering to run one) and it took a fair bit of effort to drag things away from him in some cases. Don't think he even needed Provoke.
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#26TheBarrister, Posted: Mar 05 2010 at 4:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I made on one the main forum responding to someone asking another poster "Should BLU, PUP, COR, SCH and DNC been introduced? Would the game be better off or worse without them?"
#27 Mar 05 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
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TheBarrister wrote:

I felt we absolutely did not need Blue Mage and this was only introduced to appease people who wanted to play Khimari. 95% of the people I met who play BLU have confirmed that this is the type of player that this job appeals to. I feel better now about it, but still think it was an unnecessary addition to the game that didn't add a function or fulfill a need that the playerbase was yearning for.


Most of the BLU's I know are completionists who love to collect things and that's why they leveled the job. Pokemon fans and the like. These are the same people who maxed out the sphere grid/licence board for every character in FFX/FFXII. I don't think they make **** players... In fact they are usually extremely thorough with everything they do.

BLU has a long history in FF games. Unlike DNC, COR, PUP and SCH it's been in the majority of FF games. It was a shock that it was not introduced in RoZ for that matter.

Quote:

Once DNC and SCH were announced, I felt like SE actually put some real thought into what the needs of the playerbase were (both excellent subjob alternatives, and definite need for these jobs in exp, merits and even endgame niches that don't steal the thunder of current jobs, although SCH vs. BLM might not remain that way forever.)


REALLY? Wow. DNC is nothing like it has ever been in any previous FF games (it was a BRD clone before this game and was really present in only a handful of FF games). SCH is... what RDM should have been basically. It felt like a copout when much cooler mage jobs could have been released. Geomancer... Calculator... WotG jobs were super disappointing.

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#28TheBarrister, Posted: Mar 05 2010 at 5:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'll agree to disagree. I would have hated the concepts of Geomancer, Calculator, Viking, Chocobo Knight and any of these other (IMHO horrible) job concepts being introduced without thinking about the value-add of these jobs to the current FFXI environment. SE does such a poor job at balance as it is, that introducing jobs that don't provide some additional relief from their mess just compounds this issue.
#29 Mar 08 2010 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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not to go off topic and bring this thread back on topic, but what if they were to turn defender into 3min/5recast(still meritable) -%to damage instead of +deffence and gave warrior a 1:30/3min(nmeritable) instaheal that heals 3/4 life or a percentage = to your tp for emergancy dmg mitigation. or if they gave war a ability similar to the mammets that for :45/3min all dmg turns to health call it blood rage or something.
#30 Mar 09 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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The last healing thing might be interesting, but it'd probably be on a timer similar to Chakra, making it impractical as a tanking tool, but useful for emergency uses. It'd be funny if it were based on VIT, considering Warrior has incredibly low base VIT.

Changing Defender would still make Defender useless as a tanking tool, short of removing the decreased ATT.
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#31 Mar 09 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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its been awhile but defender did +25% defense? i was just thinking that turning that to -25%dmg taken would be more beneficial than the defense boost. would it be acceptable if it was -dmg% taken, +retaliate 100%, attack penalty.
if your accuracy is good enough or they could add an acc bonus for retaliate strikes it could be possible to keep hate just by number of hits but because of att down you won't do enough dmg to annihilate mobs in endless attacks. i think also keeping the duration shorter than the recast would be a must to keep it from being on constant.


edit, take the above idea and my previous one about a war natural tp emergency heal but make it a 2 teir 150%tp active and 300% one 150% would be a 40% health return and 300 would be 80%. to keep from stepping on dancer toes can make them only usable when <40% health. i think those 2 ideas would promote war as a tank and give it the freedom to sub just about anything effectively.

Edited, Mar 9th 2010 11:55pm by xfillupurcupx
#32 Mar 13 2010 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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knowing SE, it's probably going to be "Removes sub-job and doubles HP."
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#33 Apr 15 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Default
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Just throwing in my 2cents, but even with an increase in PUP H2H Skill (yes, I speak of the topic that derailed from the main topic), the amount of melee hit downtime caused by the sheer amount of JAs a PUP has to use (just read a thread about delay increase from JAs), the gear differences/availability, the Job Abilities/Traits and maybe even the WSs available MNK but not PUP, I'd still say a MNK's damage is going to be enough to keep up with and probably even beat a good PUP who knows how to use their Auto.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen a few videos where a Sharpshot Auto was absolutely decimating mobs (granted, it was against birds) and adding increased DMG from the Master is only going to make the total dmg higher, but I've also seen MNKs who just do outstanding dmg consistently.

I don't see it causing too much trouble.

As for the OP, WAY back shortly after the NA release, I picked up the game and wanted to be this "tank" I kept hearing about. I wanted to be the protector of my groups. So, naturally, I wanted to go Paladin. Then, silly me, I found out Pally couldn't use Axes (I just LIKED Axes better than Swords lol) and I saw Warrior could tank fairly well.

For awhile, War/Mnk is f'in amazing. Never have problems with hate, don't take more dmg than a PLD does, and at the same time I dish out more than a PLD does.

However, I was bummed when I began reading all these threads about how a WAR's DD potential while tanking didn't make up for the lack of mitigation and just made the WHM's job harder, etc.

I would LOVE to see some boost to a WAR's tanking ability that doesn't involve having to be level 74 and relying on Shadows.

It's funny to go to the DNC forum and see the threads about DNC tanking. It sucks that DNCs and NINs (these flimsy little jobs with so little in the way of armor) are better tanks than WARs.

Breaks my heart.
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