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#27 Mar 28 2009 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Ya I hear you, I'll just use what I prefer. Anyways thanks for the info guys on the subject ^^.
#28 Mar 28 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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Can be higher.
True, it could theoretically be higher. But you still need to keep in mind Accuracy rate effecting counterrate. Counterstance, capped merits and AF2 boots put you at 60%. You can toss on a few more pieces, but of course can't swap in too heavily, without making cuts into your accuracy rate elsewhere.
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#29 Mar 28 2009 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've never really seen Blue Mage tanks in action, so I can't really comment on it. I've never noticed if their spells spike hate as well as PLD, RDM, and /DRK, or if they can mitigate damage nearly as well as PLD, RDM, and NIN, but again, it's not like I've either witnessed it firsthand or looked elsewhere to draw similar conclusions. Also, I don't really consider things like Limbus and Nyzul as really "end game tanking" situations, as really, any job can tank a majority of the mobs involved in that, if not all of them.
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#30 Mar 29 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cyth wrote:
Quote:
Can be higher.
True, it could theoretically be higher. But you still need to keep in mind Accuracy rate effecting counterrate. Counterstance, capped merits and AF2 boots put you at 60%. You can toss on a few more pieces, but of course can't swap in too heavily, without making cuts into your accuracy rate elsewhere.
True. I only ever use specific counter gear when /DNC or in PvP anyway. Counterstance is almost always up though, our mages love me. Smiley: laugh
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#31 Mar 29 2009 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
I really dont think anything matches up to blood tanking Nyzul bosses with retaliation and a fanatic's drink. I think war is the king of that situation for tanking, but like lolgaxe says, Nyzul is hardly AV.
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#32 Mar 30 2009 at 2:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
I really dont think anything matches up to blood tanking Nyzul bosses with retaliation and a fanatic's drink.
I have to admit, if Retaliation is anything, it's fun.
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#33 Mar 30 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Also, I don't really consider things like Limbus and Nyzul as really "end game tanking" situations, as really, any job can tank a majority of the mobs involved in that, if not all of them.


Nyzul, no. Limbus, yes. Nyzul would count if you couldn't use cheese items like fanatics, because bosses swing really fast, and hit really hard, and you can't enfeeble them for crap. Now, Omega and Ultima get the endgame tanking nod. Our biggest hurdle when fighting those (Ultima specifically) was getting talented, well-geared tanks. They both have annoying hate wipe moves that tanks need to recover hate from quickly. But they are a little easier to tank for normal mob tp because they aren't immune to slow/para/elegy.


Edited, Mar 30th 2009 11:26am by LordMnementh
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#34 Mar 31 2009 at 2:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, Omega and Ultima are the exceptions of what I said, of course, but the other areas of Limbus are perfectly easy to Warrior tank.
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#35 Mar 31 2009 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I hope some of you don't get mad at my posts as this is my very first melee job ever. Only other job I ever had was smn and that was pretty darn simple imo. With that being said, does soloing as a warrior get a lil easier with Ni? I find solo wise it's hard as /nin pre Ni. I know if I had dancer leveled or more subjobs it could be easier but atm I only have mnk and nin to 37. Another thing is what's the best BSNM to do as warrior that drops the Ni scroll? I have almost 400k saved up from doing retrace/ninja/teleaport quests (I had to give in and get a Hauberk. Should I give in a buy Ni or try some BSNM fights, I only have about 60 beastman seals atm. But without Ni post 74 I think that's like a rdm without dispel etc. My gear right now is AF head,Royal Guard's Collar,Fang earring x2,Hauberk,Tarasque Mitts,Sun Rings x2,Amemet's Mantle,Life Belt,Barone Cosciales,Fighter's Calligae and Gawaine's Axe.

I could use some more money to upgrade my gear but don't know if I should get Ni first and just stick it out...please try to reply nice lol.
#36 Apr 01 2009 at 2:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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You need ni at 74.

You will never be able to solo efficiently as a warrior, thats my only complaint about the job.

Royal jelly drops it I believe, i've never had any luck though.
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#37 Apr 01 2009 at 2:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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You'll definitely find situations where Ni is a lifesaver.
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#38 Apr 01 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Meh sucks I'll have to spend almost all my money on Ni ... oh well guess I'll have to try and do the sleepga 2 quest.
#39 Apr 01 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Meh sucks I'll have to spend almost all my money on Ni ... oh well guess I'll have to try and do the sleepga 2 quest.
LRN2RoyalJelly.
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#40 Apr 01 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Eltio wrote:
LordMnementh wrote:
Eltio wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I'd think the bigger barrier is that four other jobs can do it better.


Fix'd.


Whm?


Nah, BLU. I'm not sure I'd consider Salvage endgame tanking. MNKs do a great job on chariots tho.
Really!?, I don't want to argue about the viability of blue for endgame tanking because the job have what it takes to do it half decent... but I stand with the big 3(2&1/2? even as much as I love RDM we really don't have what it takes for those ohh s--t moments) PLD, RDM, NIN.

But if we want to include Blu, I'm pretty sure that Blm and Whm also want a shot for the run, besides of course main Drk who isn't THAT bad for the spot either.

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#41 Apr 01 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
I really dont think anything matches up to blood tanking Nyzul bosses with retaliation and a fanatic's drink.
I have to admit, if Retaliation is anything, it's fun.


Idk, I always found Retaliation to be a pain in the *** outside of fighting MNK mobs, I never understood why SE added that stupid -run/walk.
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#42 Apr 02 2009 at 1:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Pluelf wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
I really dont think anything matches up to blood tanking Nyzul bosses with retaliation and a fanatic's drink.
I have to admit, if Retaliation is anything, it's fun.


Idk, I always found Retaliation to be a pain in the *** outside of fighting MNK mobs, I never understood why SE added that stupid -run/walk.
Swings and roundabouts?

It's the same reason they added it on dusk gear. Makes you value it more during fights, but it's not something to be taken for granted and used 100% of the time! (unless you're in mmj and not moving at all, ever)
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#43 Apr 02 2009 at 2:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe I've been so used to Dusk gear that I hardly notice the -movement speed. Then again, the few merits I do on Warrior anymore is with like a totally awesome Bard who stages mobs right on top of me (I think he's trying to kill me), so I hardly actually move in parties to begin with. Either way, mob hits me, I hit him back.
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#44 Apr 02 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pluelf wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
I really dont think anything matches up to blood tanking Nyzul bosses with retaliation and a fanatic's drink.
I have to admit, if Retaliation is anything, it's fun.


Idk, I always found Retaliation to be a pain in the *** outside of fighting MNK mobs, I never understood why SE added that stupid -run/walk.


I am convinced SE created hermes sandles for retaliation.

I am also convinced I should buy them right now insted of berk +1. price is going down on my server ; ;
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#45 Apr 02 2009 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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Eltio wrote:
LordMnementh wrote:
Eltio wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I'd think the bigger barrier is that four other jobs can do it better.


Fix'd.


Whm?


Nah, BLU. I'm not sure I'd consider Salvage endgame tanking. MNKs do a great job on chariots tho.
I would've said SAM/NIN for lowman tanking stuff.
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#46 Apr 02 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I've never really seen Blue Mage tanks in action, so I can't really comment on it. I've never noticed if their spells spike hate as well as PLD, RDM, and /DRK, or if they can mitigate damage nearly as well as PLD, RDM, and NIN, but again, it's not like I've either witnessed it firsthand or looked elsewhere to draw similar conclusions. Also, I don't really consider things like Limbus and Nyzul as really "end game tanking" situations, as really, any job can tank a majority of the mobs involved in that, if not all of them.


Well, consider that BLU has AOE Flash (actinic burst), AOE stun (temporal shift), dispel (blank gaze and geist wall), sleeps--all key spells for RDM, PLD, and /DRK tanking, all with equivalent hate generation (slightly less but Conserve MP Job Trait makes up for it)--as well as a sizable hate tool noone else has, Terror (Jettatura). As well as the most MP efficient cure in the game (Magic Fruit). As well as a move that generates more hate than Invincible if it buffs 6 targets, and on a 10 minute timer (Diffusion + Exuviation). As well as MDB+50 spike spell (Saline Coat). As well as ability to cap phys. damage down without d.ring, can cap magic damage down with Shell V, MDB trait, auto-refresh, etc. etc. Oh, and lolDefense (50% defense boost from Cocoon).

The main downside to BLU tanking is that the recast timers are fairly blaaarrrrgh, but the quantity of spells makes up for it overall. And it doesn't have Shield to prevent ichi interrupts (altho flash and stun makes up for it slightly). The AOE nature of spells is a handicap too if therethings to miscast on. There isn't much in the way of enmity gear either, but haste functions well instead.

And to my knowledge BLU's tanked things such as Tiamat, Cerberus, Khim, etc.
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#47 Apr 02 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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My friend on Pandy has tanked a lot of things on BLU and says diff/exu isn't even all that necessary, only need to do it once. Spammed Exu (highest CE/MP spell for BLU) and Actinic Burst (cost 1mp less than flash, but on 60s timer) and maybe Jettatura too? Been awhile.
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#48 Apr 02 2009 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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RedshiftOnPandy wrote:
My friend on Pandy has tanked a lot of things on BLU and says diff/exu isn't even all that necessary, only need to do it once. Spammed Exu (highest CE/MP spell for BLU) and Actinic Burst (cost 1mp less than flash, but on 60s timer) and maybe Jettatura too? Been awhile.


Yea, BLU can be a hate beast, when played right, and take the hits when they have to. We can also do damage to tank and mitigate it to keep that hate.

Also, like Eltio said, Diffusion+Exuviation is some insane hate.

Like any other endgame tank in the game though (PLD/NIN, NIN/DRK, even RDM/anything - they still need a solid backline to stay alive and keep hate) we need some support to do it right. No tank is gonna solo tank anything major without proper support. When the time comes where a job can tank something major solo, that's when FFXI is broken. You can have three Aegis on you, making out with their weird shield faces and still not be able to tank most things solo.
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#49 Apr 03 2009 at 3:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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It sounds feasible, but AoE hate tools can be massive liabilities, too. Just on paper, I'd rank it just slightly higher than Warrior itself, but even then I feel it might be debatable.
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#50 Apr 03 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can see all of the tools at their disposal as a very good opportunity to tank heavily. However, they suffer the same problems as warriors when it really gets down to it:

1. They don't have 7 shadows and can't sub drk
2. They don't have a shield or fantastic JA to mitigate damage when they do get hit.
3. They don't have native tier 3-5 fast cast to make up for the lack of 1 or 2

They strike me as pretty much like rdm without fast cast. So I can see them doing as well as rdm if they can stick flashes/stuns/etc.
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#51 Apr 03 2009 at 5:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've always said, BLU/PLD is for when the linkshell you hate claims your dragon. "But Mr. GM sir, I was only trying to cure the plague aliment from my party members!"

EDIT: BLU won't be doing much damage on HNM though lol. BLU/RDM is my favourite to go to campaign though.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2009 10:03am by RedshiftOnPandy
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