I was scanning through the last census today trying to get some ideas on merits (finally got to level 75 ^^), had a quick read through the weapons section and noticed that only one person has ever actually obtained a Tupsimati across all servers (Alahsiedra on Titan apparently according to FFXIAH).
Looking through the specs of the weapon, especially at the 90 level, it actually looks to be a good weapon. The special effects are triggers from weather, so when combined with our Storm spells, the +MACC and +MATB effects should be quite devastating, or so I should think.
Is anyone aware of any in depth analysis of Tupsimati (90) vs the good ol HQ elemental staves? Given there's only one in existence I can't really expect any first hand experience, but I'm trying to understand better why there is only one of them. Is it just because Scholar is such an underplayed job (third only to Corsair and Puppetmaster)? Or is there an obvious flaw with the weapon I'm missing?
I thought I'd try setting my sights on obtaining one (incredibly unrealistic and unlikely, but nothing wrong with having a goal ^^), but if the weapon itself is easily trumped by Emperean or HQ staves, then it's probably not worth investigating. But from what I've read, the SCH Empy weapon looks somewhat useless; again though, I may be missing something there.
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Scholar Mythic Weapon (Tupsimati)Follow
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
A couple things make it not so great. For one, SCH doesn't exactly gear for melee, so the aftermath is going to be a bit of a pain to trigger. You basically have to become a front line job to take advantage of it, and that isn't always the best choice. Secondly, you are limited to the element you currently have a storm up for. Say you keep up Hailstorm full time, then if you want to cast Thunder IV/V, you either switch storms or switch staves. Third, magian staves with Magic Damage +5 elemental affinity give +30% damage to spells of a given element. That 30% is multiplied outside of MAB, which is basically the same as giving you 30% more MAB for comparison's sake. I don't know what Tupsimati's increase to Magic Attack under aftermath gives, but it would have to be a good amount to beat magian staves 30%. The base MAB on mythic won't be enough alone.
Empyrean is OK I guess as an mp recovery stick, but again it requires you to melee for it to work, and MP recovery need is greatly reduced in Abyssea by Atmas. Also you can't switch it out for nukes since you lose TP.
Empyrean is OK I guess as an mp recovery stick, but again it requires you to melee for it to work, and MP recovery need is greatly reduced in Abyssea by Atmas. Also you can't switch it out for nukes since you lose TP.
The Aftermath affect of increased magic accuracy and attack is independent of the regular bonus though isn't it? I'm not sure exactly how to read the descriptions on those weapons.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
There's ways to reasonably get around front lining although you have to sacrifice magic attack bonus from /blm or /rdm to do it.(/drk not /sam. Yay Absorb tp! You also get two forms of stun!) Any who it would take a lot of work to make the aftermath for mythic to work to your advantage and at the end of the day is that really worth it? The -emnitity would pretty much make you a ghost though(Outside abyssea obviously where it's not as easy to cap -emnitity) and since you would be essentially equipping the same weapon all the time you can take advantage of occult amen.
Empyreon would not be a very effective route and you have to re-define your roll withen the party as a sch.(Aka you shouldn't be nuking if your front lining with either weapon. Just do things that still would be effective without the steroids staves. Such as curing buffing and debuffing.)
Not that you find a super efficient way to do any of that, that's justifiable to the community en mass but at least you still be a strong party member offering something to the group. And hopefully having fun.
Empyreon would not be a very effective route and you have to re-define your roll withen the party as a sch.(Aka you shouldn't be nuking if your front lining with either weapon. Just do things that still would be effective without the steroids staves. Such as curing buffing and debuffing.)
Not that you find a super efficient way to do any of that, that's justifiable to the community en mass but at least you still be a strong party member offering something to the group. And hopefully having fun.
Rocking Phantasy star online 2. And loving it! Hopefully sega get's it right this time. They are having a much better start this go around then Universe but still a ways off calling it a hot contender in today's MMO market.
Quote:
The Aftermath affect of increased magic accuracy and attack is independent of the regular bonus though isn't it? I'm not sure exactly how to read the descriptions on those weapons.
It is independent, but without the aftermath there is no way it beats magian elemental staves for nuking, at least by damage considerations alone. It might not even beat it with the aftermath. I don't know how good the aftermath is, it isn't on the wiki.
Edit: I'd also like to add that Tupsimati does next to nothing for curing, which is another half of SCH. The -enmity is nice, but giving up cure potency for it? I wouldn't. It would be better to get -enmity gear on other slots and use cure potency in your weapon slot.
Edited, Aug 5th 2011 10:37am by JaxReborn
For reference, on the level 90 Tupsimati, these are the stats:
DMG: 90 Delay: 402
Same elemental magic as weather:
Enmity-20 Acc.+30 Magic Acc.+25
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+35 "Omniscience"
Aftermath: Inc. Mag. Acc./Mag. Atk.
Occasionally attacks twice
So when casting in line with the weather (in other words, under the effect of our Storm spells), you're getting a MATK of 35 (35, not 35%, please correct me if I've read that wrong). I don't know the exact formulas which is why I was hoping had done some of the math previously, but for 30% to be >= 35 seems a stretch, at least to me (again, with no real knowledge of the math). You also get an MACC bonus too which will help with partial resists. Combined with the enmity down, throw in a few of our JAs and you could be casting very effective tier 5 nukes without pulling _too_ much hate from it.
I realise it's not a one size fits all staff; curing obviously still is better served by a HQ elemental stave or a TotM curing staff, but that's why Scholars are experts on gear swaps ^^
However, I _think_ the bonuses, once you get to 90 especially, start to become worth it? Even without the Aftermath effect, which means you don't need to be front line (I never am personally unless I'm in GoV parties where I'll occasionally whip out my staff for the fun of it).
As it stands, I've just started on my first TotM elemental stave today (and realised killing Treants at level 75 probably isn't going to be easy, so I'm going to go and level some more ^^), so I don't have any point of reference, and given there is only one Tupsimati in existance, no one can really compare the two anyway, at least in game (which is probably why there isn't any data on the Aftermath effect in the wiki, no one is available to test it!)
DMG: 90 Delay: 402
Same elemental magic as weather:
Enmity-20 Acc.+30 Magic Acc.+25
"Magic Atk. Bonus"+35 "Omniscience"
Aftermath: Inc. Mag. Acc./Mag. Atk.
Occasionally attacks twice
So when casting in line with the weather (in other words, under the effect of our Storm spells), you're getting a MATK of 35 (35, not 35%, please correct me if I've read that wrong). I don't know the exact formulas which is why I was hoping had done some of the math previously, but for 30% to be >= 35 seems a stretch, at least to me (again, with no real knowledge of the math). You also get an MACC bonus too which will help with partial resists. Combined with the enmity down, throw in a few of our JAs and you could be casting very effective tier 5 nukes without pulling _too_ much hate from it.
I realise it's not a one size fits all staff; curing obviously still is better served by a HQ elemental stave or a TotM curing staff, but that's why Scholars are experts on gear swaps ^^
However, I _think_ the bonuses, once you get to 90 especially, start to become worth it? Even without the Aftermath effect, which means you don't need to be front line (I never am personally unless I'm in GoV parties where I'll occasionally whip out my staff for the fun of it).
As it stands, I've just started on my first TotM elemental stave today (and realised killing Treants at level 75 probably isn't going to be easy, so I'm going to go and level some more ^^), so I don't have any point of reference, and given there is only one Tupsimati in existance, no one can really compare the two anyway, at least in game (which is probably why there isn't any data on the Aftermath effect in the wiki, no one is available to test it!)
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Empyreon would not be a very effective route and you have to re-define your roll withen the party as a sch.(Aka you shouldn't be nuking if your front lining with either weapon. Just do things that still would be effective without the steroids staves. Such as curing buffing and debuffing.)
I've pretty much assumed that from the Scholar Empyrean weapon anyway. I couldn't work out why it was of any benefit to a spellcaster at all, until I worked out that each weapon has multiple paths through TotM, and that the Empy weapon is just one path you can take. It really only exists so SE can say every class has an Empy weapon, at least in my view.
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Not that you find a super efficient way to do any of that, that's justifiable to the community en mass but at least you still be a strong party member offering something to the group. And hopefully having fun.
That's why I'm playing Scholar ^^ I tried the job on a whim and fell in love with it; I don't care if I missed the boat on 75 endgame where we apparently were demigods, or if we're now just considered gimped black mages in Abyssea. I love the complexity to the job, and all the various abilities and spells we have and how they all interact with each other.
That's what started my interest in Tupsimati to begin with really, from the stats alone I can see where it would be an excellent piece to have, but without a whole lot of knowledge on endgame, the 'stats alone' bit may not mean much, hence this post ^^
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Quote:
So when casting in line with the weather (in other words, under the effect of our Storm spells), you're getting a MATK of 35 (35, not 35%, please correct me if I've read that wrong). I don't know the exact formulas which is why I was hoping had done some of the math previously, but for 30% to be >= 35 seems a stretch, at least to me (again, with no real knowledge of the math). You also get an MACC bonus too which will help with partial resists. Combined with the enmity down, throw in a few of our JAs and you could be casting very effective tier 5 nukes without pulling _too_ much hate from it.
If you had no other gear on, no atmas, and no MAB trait, your MAB would be set at 1.00. Adding 30% to that would put you at 1.30, which is identical to adding +30MAB. The point at which +30% equals +35MAB is having +17MAB from gear/atma/traits. So it isn't hard to see that, +30% when you are properly buffed up completely blows +35MAB out of the water.
Also, when you consider magic accuracy, remember that magian elemental staves also give this. The +1 magic accuracy for an element affinity means +20 Magic accuracy.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Affinity
Edit: /RDM alone gives you enough MAB to make the magian staff better.
Edit2: Here is a link on how to calculate magic damage:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage
Edited, Aug 5th 2011 12:02pm by JaxReborn
Yeah, Jax explained it very well, Tupismati isn't worth it. At all. Some day I'll unlock omniscience, because the animation is cool and I can do self SC with immanence now, but other than that (which is easily achieved without the mythic weapon itself), there's nothing interesting on Tupismati.
Frejan - Ragnarok
SCH 99 PUP 99 WAR 99 RDM 49 NIN 49 SAM 49
Windurst Rank 10, ZM+CoP: The Last Verse, ToAU: Eternal Mercenary, WotG Champion of the Dawn.
SCH 99 PUP 99 WAR 99 RDM 49 NIN 49 SAM 49
Windurst Rank 10, ZM+CoP: The Last Verse, ToAU: Eternal Mercenary, WotG Champion of the Dawn.
Thanks Jax, that's made it make a bit more sense for me ^^ I'm going to have to go and look up all the formulas on MATK bonus and MACC again *laughs* Had you asked me in 2005 I probably could have told you what was the 'accepted' formula then, but that was a long time ago.
I can understand on that basis why there isn't many of them around.
I can understand on that basis why there isn't many of them around.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
In case anyone is confused after looking at the calculating magic damage page with respect to the "Magic Damage" trait on the TotM staves, be sure to check the Magic Affinity section as well.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Affinity
Just realised Jax had linked it in to his original post but I hadn't actually looked at it *blush* I was trying to factor in the +5 into the 256/256 formula on the original page, that's not how it works, and the +30% now makes perfect sense! (Lesson - read all the information!)
I suppose the other question is how this fares outside of Abyssea, not just inside (since everyone will come out eventually... probably right as I'm about ready to go in!)
Well the base +17MAB figure still applies, so if you have over +52MAB (including the staff), then the TotM staves start to pull ahead. Tupsimati at level 90 gives a +35MAB bonus. If you sub RDM at level 90, you'd have the MAB II trait active, which gives a base +24MAB. When added to the Tupsimati, you'd have +59MAB total. However, when adding 30% from the TotM staff, you'd have just over +61MAB (since the +30% calculation is done last, so the 1.24 MAB would be multiplied by 1.3 to give 1.621).
That also ignores the fact the Tupsimati bonuses only apply when the right weather is active. So if the right weather isn't active, you'd lose the whole bonus anyway.
I'm starting to understand why there's only one of these in existance.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Affinity
Just realised Jax had linked it in to his original post but I hadn't actually looked at it *blush* I was trying to factor in the +5 into the 256/256 formula on the original page, that's not how it works, and the +30% now makes perfect sense! (Lesson - read all the information!)
I suppose the other question is how this fares outside of Abyssea, not just inside (since everyone will come out eventually... probably right as I'm about ready to go in!)
Well the base +17MAB figure still applies, so if you have over +52MAB (including the staff), then the TotM staves start to pull ahead. Tupsimati at level 90 gives a +35MAB bonus. If you sub RDM at level 90, you'd have the MAB II trait active, which gives a base +24MAB. When added to the Tupsimati, you'd have +59MAB total. However, when adding 30% from the TotM staff, you'd have just over +61MAB (since the +30% calculation is done last, so the 1.24 MAB would be multiplied by 1.3 to give 1.621).
That also ignores the fact the Tupsimati bonuses only apply when the right weather is active. So if the right weather isn't active, you'd lose the whole bonus anyway.
I'm starting to understand why there's only one of these in existance.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Quote:
Yeah, Jax explained it very well, Tupismati isn't worth it. At all.
Actually no, you guys have entirely missed the point of this thing. While the damage stats don't quite measure up to +2 staves, it has one enormous advantage over them; Enmity-20. Combined with Animus and merits, you only need Enmity-15 from other gear to cap, allowing you to wear much better gear and maintain floored enmity.
So yes, it's situational as all things, but if you're nuking in a party where your objective is to deal as much damage as possible without getting hate, Tupsimati is the clear winner.
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
Quote:
Actually no, you guys have entirely missed the point of this thing. While the damage stats don't quite measure up to +2 staves, it has one enormous advantage over them; Enmity-20. Combined with Animus and merits, you only need Enmity-15 from other gear to cap, allowing you to wear much better gear and maintain floored enmity.
So yes, it's situational as all things, but if you're nuking in a party where your objective is to deal as much damage as possible without getting hate, Tupsimati is the clear winner.
So yes, it's situational as all things, but if you're nuking in a party where your objective is to deal as much damage as possible without getting hate, Tupsimati is the clear winner.
OK, sure, but for what fights would this actually matter? You are talking about specific fights with specific set ups to actually make the -enmity useful. Are there enough of these fights, or are the rewards from any of these fights such that it is worth investing in an otherwise worthless weapon? Furthermore, the restriction to a certain weather is not being taken into consideration here. If you are stuck with one element, you have to delay your casting due to recast timers, which slows your enmity generation. Also, if you are nuking with this staff, you aren't curing with it unless you cast the proper storm on yourself first. That's just awkward.
Quote:
OK, sure, but for what fights would this actually matter?
At 75, I regularly brought SCH to endgame things such as kings, wyrms, ZNMs, Doomvoids, etc., and consistently beat perfectly geared BLMs in damage dealt through use of Enmity- gear; of course that's all gone now, the only content presently comparable being Voidwatch. The restriction to one element is a non-issue in these cases, as most of the time you're already limiting yourself to one element due to resistance; Alacrity on your larger nukes greatly reduces the recast handicap. As for healing.. given a standard HNM party setup, curing is not a concern. If you're there for damage, you're nuking; if you're there to heal, you're healing. There's already a RDM or three present to handle backup cures.
As for investing in the otherwise worthless weapon, well, you don't see one in my sig, do you? I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be the best use of the weapon.
Edited, Aug 15th 2011 12:04am by LyltiaofLakshmi
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
As for investing in the otherwise worthless weapon, well, you don't see one in my sig, do you? I am merely pointing out what I perceive to be the best use of the weapon.
This isn't designed to be sarcastic, it's a serious question; doesn't Hvergelmir fall into that category? Or does the increased DPS and the Aftermath effect make it worth having? You need to have the weapon equipped to use the weapon skill, which means you can't have your Elemental or Magian (or Tupsimati ^^) staves equipped to cast with.
Again, not trying to be sarcastic, genuinely curious where the benefits in our Empyrean weapon are!
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
JaxReborn wrote:
Quote:
Valid points
Both of you have solid cases, and I'll propose a 3rd case:
Both upper tier magian staves and tupsimati offer greater performance than NQ and HQ elemental staves (HQ perhaps better than tupsimati in some situations). Last I checked NQ staves, while bottom of the totem pole now, were still considered acceptable. On this outlook, Tupsimati has one strong advantage: Better than "acceptable" with the bonus of Inventory +6. For some people, that's a tasty bit of crumpet alone.
Quote:
This isn't designed to be sarcastic, it's a serious question; doesn't Hvergelmir fall into that category? Or does the increased DPS and the Aftermath effect make it worth having? You need to have the weapon equipped to use the weapon skill, which means you can't have your Elemental or Magian (or Tupsimati ^^) staves equipped to cast with.
Again, not trying to be sarcastic, genuinely curious where the benefits in our Empyrean weapon are!
Again, not trying to be sarcastic, genuinely curious where the benefits in our Empyrean weapon are!
Aha, but it isn't merely 'your' (in this case meaning scholars collectively) empyrean weapon, it's -the- empyrean staff. Looking at their sig, they have other staff-using jobs. Which include summoner. A job that has valid uses for hvergelmir.
Since you're curious, the benefits of hvergelmir are, very simply, mp, and lots of it. The staff itself gives something like mp +120, and the weaponskill restores a % of your max mp based on how much tp you have. I'm considering trying for one for myself, both for if I ever actually get my summoner to a useful level, and to at very least play around with on blm. Obviously you lose out on a sizeable chunk of damage using it on blm, but I have this idea that since you wouldn't be swapping staves every cast, you would actually accumulate tp via occult acumen (not amen, laxedrane, I always see you saying that and I admit it irks me), and thus be able to make use of the weaponskill without meleeing. Though I admit, I've never sat down and done the math on how much max mp you would need to be reliably sustaining yourself that way, it's probably less favourable that I think.
Edit: Ok, did a little math, and to get 100% tp, you would need the following amount of mp per occult acumen tier
Tier/Mp spent to 100% tp/Required max mp to regain that much on every use
I: 4000 mp/20000 mp
II: 2000 mp/10000 mp
III: 1334 mp/ 6670 mp
IV: 1000 mp/5000 mp
So yeah, you pretty much have to be meleeing to get any use out of those. That significantly lowers my interest, must say.
Edited, Aug 19th 2011 7:43pm by VonCrown
VonCrown wrote:
Aha, but it isn't merely 'your' (in this case meaning scholars collectively) empyrean weapon, it's -the- empyrean staff. Looking at their sig, they have other staff-using jobs. Which include summoner. A job that has valid uses for hvergelmir.
*blushes* I hadn't actually noticed that (well, I had, but it obviously hadn't sunk in!) That makes a lot more sense then.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
The only thing I use it for on SCH (besides town gear / max MP) is to turn TP Wings into MP/Status Restoral meds in Abyssea.
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)
rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
Some food for though on this though; if SE continue to upgrade the Tupsimati as they've been doing (+5 MAB every upgrade), then based on the current Magian Staffs, once the Tupsimati gets to level 99, it should have a MAB of +45. At that point the break even point is 50 MAB when compared to the Magian Staffs. /RDM will give you +24 MAB, which gives you 26 to make up before you're breaking even again.
Of course, the Magian Staffs could also get affinity bonus as well, and if they get to +7 and the pattern continues as it is now (i.e., +40%), the break even point becomes 12.5 MAB, which is even worse than it is now...
Of course, the Magian Staffs could also get affinity bonus as well, and if they get to +7 and the pattern continues as it is now (i.e., +40%), the break even point becomes 12.5 MAB, which is even worse than it is now...
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Drusenija wrote:
Some food for though on this though; if SE continue to upgrade the Tupsimati as they've been doing (+5 MAB every upgrade), then based on the current Magian Staffs, once the Tupsimati gets to level 99, it should have a MAB of +45. At that point the break even point is 50 MAB when compared to the Magian Staffs. /RDM will give you +24 MAB, which gives you 26 to make up before you're breaking even again.
Of course, the Magian Staffs could also get affinity bonus as well, and if they get to +7 and the pattern continues as it is now (i.e., +40%), the break even point becomes 12.5 MAB, which is even worse than it is now...
Of course, the Magian Staffs could also get affinity bonus as well, and if they get to +7 and the pattern continues as it is now (i.e., +40%), the break even point becomes 12.5 MAB, which is even worse than it is now...
I would personally prefer more cast/recast reductions on further upgrades than just raw damage. My reasoning is this: MP management is at a point now where inside or outside abyssea, you shouldn't have any real problems. More cast reductions means an easier time getting the larger nukes off while kiting.
That would be nice too. If they add that to Tupsimati then it would make it quite appealing ^^ Or even branch off the TotM staves some more (more damage <-> faster cast/recast paths).
I've been reading up on Mythic weapons though, and there is soooo much you need to do to get one! No wonder there's so few of them.
I've been reading up on Mythic weapons though, and there is soooo much you need to do to get one! No wonder there's so few of them.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Well, roughly a year later, I thought I'd go back and revisit this now that the Mythic weapons have had their upgrade to 99. Currently, a fully upgraded MAB Magian trial staff will give the following bonuses:
+35% magic attack bonus
+20 magical accuracy
The Tupsimati afterglow version will give the following bonuses:
+40 magic attack bonus
+30 magical accuracy
Let's put together a generic formula for the staves to make this easier to compare (it also lets me check my math against the old numbers in this thread ^^).
Tupsimati: MAB = X + (B / 100) where B = staff bonus (25, 30, 35, etc)
Magian Staff: MAB = X * ((A * 5) + 105) / 100 where A = affinity (1, 2, 3, etc)
We want to solve this equation for X to determine the break even point. The Tupsimati should always have more raw power up front, but ultimately the percentage base of the Magian Staff has to overtake it eventually, and the value of X represents what this break even point is. So, using simpler notation:
X + 0.01B = 0.01X(5A + 105)
100X + B = X(5A + 105)
B = X(5A + 5)
X = B / (5A + 5)
If you didn't follow the math earlier, essentially this formula gives you the break even point. We can see from the earlier comparison where the Tupsimati at level 90 gave +35MAB and the Magian Affinity was at level 5 (which is +30%). This gives us:
X = 35 / (5 * 5 + 5) = 35 / 30 = 1.1666666666 ~ 1.17
1.17 is +17MAB in gear, traits and atma, which we established was very easy to do. A Red Mage sub alone provides +24MAB which means if you sub Red Mage, the Magian weapons would win out every time in that example.
If you already knew that, then my apologies, I had to ensure my math was correct ^^
Let's go back to the current state. The Tupsimati at level 99 now gives +40MAB, and the level 99 Magian staves have +6 affinity if you've opted for the magic attack paths. So substituting those into our formula, we get this:
X = 40 / (6 * 5 + 5) = 1.14285714 ~ 1.14
1.14 is only +14MAB. So since we've made it to the Afterglow version, the raw damage potential of the Tupsimati as compared to the Magian staves has actually gotten worse.
Now, if SE had done what I'd said a few posts back and bumped it to +45MAB (still factoring in the Magian staves at their current level), then the formula becomes this:
X = 45 / (6 * 5 + 5) = 1.28571429 ~ 1.29
1.29 or +29MAB. Still dead easy to reach when /RDM provides +24MAB, but you can't do it with just a subjob anymore. Not that it matters since they didn't do it.
Either way, from a raw damage perspective, our Mythic weapon just isn't up to snuff. Yes, it may have more magical accuracy, and the enmity down may be useful in some situations, but if big numbers is what you're after, Magian is still where it's at.
And despite all of that math, I still want my Tupsimati ^^ Scholars get virtually nothing from their Empyrean weapon (more MP, hooray?), and SE didn't deign to give us a relic weapon, so if I want to own a rare weapon of some value to my job, I need my Tupsimati, dammit!
+35% magic attack bonus
+20 magical accuracy
The Tupsimati afterglow version will give the following bonuses:
+40 magic attack bonus
+30 magical accuracy
Let's put together a generic formula for the staves to make this easier to compare (it also lets me check my math against the old numbers in this thread ^^).
Tupsimati: MAB = X + (B / 100) where B = staff bonus (25, 30, 35, etc)
Magian Staff: MAB = X * ((A * 5) + 105) / 100 where A = affinity (1, 2, 3, etc)
We want to solve this equation for X to determine the break even point. The Tupsimati should always have more raw power up front, but ultimately the percentage base of the Magian Staff has to overtake it eventually, and the value of X represents what this break even point is. So, using simpler notation:
X + 0.01B = 0.01X(5A + 105)
100X + B = X(5A + 105)
B = X(5A + 5)
X = B / (5A + 5)
If you didn't follow the math earlier, essentially this formula gives you the break even point. We can see from the earlier comparison where the Tupsimati at level 90 gave +35MAB and the Magian Affinity was at level 5 (which is +30%). This gives us:
X = 35 / (5 * 5 + 5) = 35 / 30 = 1.1666666666 ~ 1.17
1.17 is +17MAB in gear, traits and atma, which we established was very easy to do. A Red Mage sub alone provides +24MAB which means if you sub Red Mage, the Magian weapons would win out every time in that example.
If you already knew that, then my apologies, I had to ensure my math was correct ^^
Let's go back to the current state. The Tupsimati at level 99 now gives +40MAB, and the level 99 Magian staves have +6 affinity if you've opted for the magic attack paths. So substituting those into our formula, we get this:
X = 40 / (6 * 5 + 5) = 1.14285714 ~ 1.14
1.14 is only +14MAB. So since we've made it to the Afterglow version, the raw damage potential of the Tupsimati as compared to the Magian staves has actually gotten worse.
Now, if SE had done what I'd said a few posts back and bumped it to +45MAB (still factoring in the Magian staves at their current level), then the formula becomes this:
X = 45 / (6 * 5 + 5) = 1.28571429 ~ 1.29
1.29 or +29MAB. Still dead easy to reach when /RDM provides +24MAB, but you can't do it with just a subjob anymore. Not that it matters since they didn't do it.
Either way, from a raw damage perspective, our Mythic weapon just isn't up to snuff. Yes, it may have more magical accuracy, and the enmity down may be useful in some situations, but if big numbers is what you're after, Magian is still where it's at.
And despite all of that math, I still want my Tupsimati ^^ Scholars get virtually nothing from their Empyrean weapon (more MP, hooray?), and SE didn't deign to give us a relic weapon, so if I want to own a rare weapon of some value to my job, I need my Tupsimati, dammit!
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
Hahaha! I admit it, I love the spirit. But with all the effort it takes to get a mythic, I'd rather get Kenkonken for my PUP, even if I've alwayd declared that SCH is my main job, no questions asked. In any case, my only hopes for a Mythic go through a revamp of the conditions. I think I have the patience to farm for a Relic, but I don't think I can spend 3-4x the time to farm for a Mythic, PLUS all the Nyzul repetitions, all the ichor, etc, etc.
Mythics... Why do you have to be the most difficult!
Mythics... Why do you have to be the most difficult!
Frejan - Ragnarok
SCH 99 PUP 99 WAR 99 RDM 49 NIN 49 SAM 49
Windurst Rank 10, ZM+CoP: The Last Verse, ToAU: Eternal Mercenary, WotG Champion of the Dawn.
SCH 99 PUP 99 WAR 99 RDM 49 NIN 49 SAM 49
Windurst Rank 10, ZM+CoP: The Last Verse, ToAU: Eternal Mercenary, WotG Champion of the Dawn.
I'm in about the same boat - there is no way I'm ever likely to tick all the necessary requirements to owning a mythic, so it's really just a case of dreaming more than anything else. Alexandrite alone on Asura is going for about 16k each which puts the Alexandrite required at *queues Dr Evil little finger* four hundred... and eighty... MILLION... gil...
But I can dream.
But I can dream.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Interestingly, I just noticed something has changed. The last time I did this, the magical attack and accuracy bonuses were only granted when the weather matched the spell. Now they're all the time and it's just the enmity that's weather based.
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Zelduh wrote:
SCH's mythic is literally the worst/one of the worst mythics and it basically does nothing other staves can't already do better. At least BLM's is by far the best Meteor staff and it enhances Elemental Seal for 10% damage. Tupsimati is definitely not worth making. Pretty sure there was only 1 in existence and that player quit, so now there's 0.
what are you talking about? I've got Tupsimati.
anyone can get one. Its fun.
just login test server and they pop out like candy from a machine.
Server: Bahamut
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC
Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
90BST|90BLU
LS: MONSTERSINC
Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
--Beastmaster Forever--
Zelduh wrote:
SCH's mythic is literally the worst/one of the worst mythics and it basically does nothing other staves can't already do better. At least BLM's is by far the best Meteor staff and it enhances Elemental Seal for 10% damage. Tupsimati is definitely not worth making. Pretty sure there was only 1 in existence and that player quit, so now there's 0.
No one is debating it Zelduh, that was the whole point of the math in the post :) I don't want it from a stat perspective, the math doesn't make it worth it. I want it because I'm a Scholar, and that weapon is my "ultimate" (cough) weapon. I also know I'll never get it, but that doesn't really matter :)
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
Zelduh wrote:
When was I debating anything? I was just making a statement.
I'm a hardcore SCH too but I wouldn't get one even if I wanted to/could simply because the only time I would use it is in Port Jeuno >_> 700 million gil town gear [No thanks]
I'm a hardcore SCH too but I wouldn't get one even if I wanted to/could simply because the only time I would use it is in Port Jeuno >_> 700 million gil town gear [No thanks]
Fair point, my apologies. As yes, there is that, and it's one of the reasons I'll never likely even bother to attempt it. However, if I happened to win the Mog Bonanza or Gobbiebag Giveaway or whatever they call their next competition and end up with one, I won't argue (and will likely laugh at all the hate I'd get for picking such a "useless" mythic *laughs*)
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
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