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Scholar endgame, and how much does race matter?Follow

#1 Mar 22 2011 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Hello Scholars!

Yesterday some of you may have seen me post questions about the job population in the general section. I've noticed that Scholars are rather unpopular, but when I started reading up on the job it started looking quite appealing.

Also, I play an Elvaan. Recently I've gotten more into caster jobs rather than physicals, but since I really like my character I still play the magical jobs on it. Mostly my experience have been that, although there is a difference between the races, the difference is usually evened out with gear, or is eventually so small that it's barely noticeable.
However, many times I've seen the combination Elvaan BLM mentioned as... well, really bad. To make a long story short; since Elvaan BLM is apparently so bad (is this even true?) - do they have similar issues as SCH? I figured it might be even worse as SCH, since you don't even gain as much Int and elemental skill from the job itself.

To break it down:
1) What is, roughly, the Scholar endgame like?
2) Would I be at a severe disadvantage as an Elvaan SCH?
3) Is there any certain reason (lack of utility, etc) for the low population of Scholars?

Sorry if any of this has been discussed to death. If you don't feel like writing a lengthy reply, I was mostly looking for some simple guidelines. Thanks in advance!

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 8:12am by Aizawa
#2 Mar 22 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Excellent
1) Unfortunately Scholar doesn't really offer too much as a main job in the higher levels, primarily due to the importance of White Mage and Black Mage in Abyssea in comparison to Scholar. As far as being just a single target magic damage dealer, Scholar excels fairly well, but it lacks the curing capacity that White Mage has (it's limited to Cure IV) and it lacks a a good number of magic spells required for "grellow" proc'ing a mob for seals/+2 items (It has none of the Light based spells natively, three of the four Dark based Black Magic spells, and only two of the four Black Magic elemental spells per element.) The unique abilities they have for the most part pale in comparison to what a White Mage or Black Mage can do.

2) As of right now, race basically has no bearing on the success of a job, especially given the boosts one can obtain in Abyssea through Atmas and Cruor buffs.

3) As I laid out in the first answer, the primary reason right now that Scholar isn't all that popular is that it really doesn't very much in comparison to White Mage or Black Mage. It can't cure as effectively as a Whm can due to being limited to Cure IV, doesn't have the nuking power that Blm has, and lacks too many grellow proc'ing spells to really be useful in that regard either.
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#3 Mar 22 2011 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Ah... that's too bad. Looks like it has a lot of potential, and looks quite fun. Is it not even worth playing it as a main job right now? Would I have a lot of trouble getting groups?
I play on Sylph, if it matters. I think it's one of the more populated servers?

Edit: I mean, I read what you said, but I'd be okay with not being cookie-cutter-awesome as long as I can at least continue grouping and having fun with the game.

Edit 2: Having read up on these !! thingies and whatnot - aren't there quite a few jobs who can't trigger these, but seem to be played anyway? SMN doesn't seem to be able to proc many at all, for example, but admittedly they aren't popular. And what about Red Mage? They seem to be more or less at the same place as Scholars are, regarding these procs, and yet they are one of the more popular classes?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to argue, I'm just wondering.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 9:01am by Aizawa



Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 12:59pm by Aizawa
#4 Mar 22 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Aizawa wrote:
Ah... that's too bad. Looks like it has a lot of potential, and looks quite fun. Is it not even worth playing it as a main job right now? Would I have a lot of trouble getting groups?
I play on Sylph, if it matters. I think it's one of the more populated servers?

Edit: I mean, I read what you said, but I'd be okay with not being cookie-cutter-awesome as long as I can at least continue grouping and having fun with the game.

Edit 2: Having read up on these !! thingies and whatnot - aren't there quite a few jobs who can't trigger these, but seem to be played anyway? SMN doesn't seem to be able to proc many at all, for example, but admittedly they aren't popular. And what about Red Mage? They seem to be more or less at the same place as Scholars are, regarding these procs, and yet they are one of the more popular classes?



There are some jobs that excel at weakness procs where others fall short (for example, Warrior is capable of covering a great number of weaponskills capable of triggering Blue !!, whereas Samurai has far fewer). For normal experience points parties in Abyssea this is for the most part irrelevant since no one's going to be fighting NMs anyway, but if you're in a low-man group for Abyssea NMs (which is the norm nowadays in place of full alliances), you'll be wanting each member to be able to contribute quite a bit, and in cases like that having a Whm and a Blm is going to far, far more than a Whm and a Sch or a Blm and a Sch.

Red Mage has unfortunately come to a similar position as Sch, in that it really doesn't offer enough unique abilities to justify it being in an NM hunting group over a Black Mage or White Mage. For the most part they lack the same spells for proc'ing grellow that Sch are lacking (the Light elemental magic line, half of the Darkness elemental spells, and the tier III-ga and Ancient magic elemental spells). Refresh II is generally unneeded for mages, since /Rdm has opened up the ability to Refresh yourself, as well as one of the staple Atmas for mages giving a 10mp/tic refresh in Abyssea. Really, all that Rdm has going for it is they're still the best for enfeebling mobs, but in Abyssea even that doesn't really justify them having a spot in an NM hunting group.

Things might be different here come the next version update though, since we don't know what the future will hold as far as what the next big activity will be and how said activities will affect job usefulness. For example, one of the biggest perks of Whm as a healer is they have Cure V and VI, which allows them to manage curing the larger HP pools that players have in Abyssea due to Cruor buffs/Atma. If we find ourselves having to work with our normal, "Outside Abyssea" HP pools for the next endgame events for XI, Cure IV is going to become a good deal more useful again. Likewise there may be nothing to "proc" in said future events, which would make Blm less essential for NM farming.

Really though, the way I see it, just level what you love. I mean I have Sch leveled and though I really have absolutely no use for it at all, I still enjoyed leveling it, and it just lets me have that option available should I ever need to use it for something.
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#5 Mar 22 2011 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Thanks for the responses.

I guess I'll have to try out SCH when the servers get up again! I guess you're right about leveling what you enjoy rather than what's 'good'. Thanks for the clarifications! :3
#6 Mar 22 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Default
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629 posts
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
"grellow" proc'ing


Anyone who thinks the Yellow "!!" looks somewhat green, please calibrate your monitor. I'm a stickler about monitor calibration for my own displays, and on every display I have, the yellow "!!" is clearly yellow.

Just a tangent as I always wondered why people called it "grellow" until I asked and was like "no it doesn't..."
#7 Mar 22 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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824 posts
Vlorsutes did a very good job of explaining why SCH is one of the weakest jobs at the moment, he's absolutely right. Still, level SCH if you like it, as it still retains all of the traits that made it amazing in capable hands at 75. The main problems that keep it out of the running now (lack of yellow procs/lack of cure5/6) will matter little once we move on from Abyssea (I hope, who knows what the devs are up to). Even now, if you find yourself outside Abyssea, SCH still destroys BLM when it comes to efficiency (and efficiency is more often than not a major concern without Minikin), and while the WHM overhaul (Afflatus Esuna etc.) cemented WHM as the pre-eminent healing job, SCH can keep up just fine in most situations. Just make sure you do your homework on the job, as it's easily one of the most complex jobs in the game to learn to play efficiently.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#8 Mar 22 2011 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Banggugyangu wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
"grellow" proc'ing


Anyone who thinks the Yellow "!!" looks somewhat green, please calibrate your monitor. I'm a stickler about monitor calibration for my own displays, and on every display I have, the yellow "!!" is clearly yellow.

Just a tangent as I always wondered why people called it "grellow" until I asked and was like "no it doesn't..."


I don't know, my monitor is calibrated and there's clearly green areas. If you notice, none of the !! are a single shade. For example, "red" exclamation marks are actually orange on the top and bottom of the punctuation marks, and only red at the middle. Likewise, "blue" is actually blue on the top and bottom, with middle being more of a purple. For "grellow" they're yellow at the ends, but green near the middle. If you're only seeing a single color, then there must be something wrong with the respective .dat files, cause between myself and every other screenshot I've ever seen, the !! are of varying related colors.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 9:33pm by Vlorsutes
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#9 Mar 23 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Default
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
"grellow" proc'ing


Anyone who thinks the Yellow "!!" looks somewhat green, please calibrate your monitor. I'm a stickler about monitor calibration for my own displays, and on every display I have, the yellow "!!" is clearly yellow.

Just a tangent as I always wondered why people called it "grellow" until I asked and was like "no it doesn't..."


I don't know, my monitor is calibrated and there's clearly green areas. If you notice, none of the !! are a single shade. For example, "red" exclamation marks are actually orange on the top and bottom of the punctuation marks, and only red at the middle. Likewise, "blue" is actually blue on the top and bottom, with middle being more of a purple. For "grellow" they're yellow at the ends, but green near the middle. If you're only seeing a single color, then there must be something wrong with the respective .dat files, cause between myself and every other screenshot I've ever seen, the !! are of varying related colors.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2011 9:33pm by Vlorsutes


I didn't say they weren't a single shade, I said it was obviously yellow. There are several shades of yellow before entering into green territory. Furthermore, screenshots aren't effected by monitor calibration *done at the monitor level*. They're merely effected by software calibrations. Any adjustments made to displays should first be done to the extent that the display itself allows. Also, there are actual calibration tools that should be used. Just winging it generally is about as accurate as trying to RTA a set of loudspeakers in a gymnasium without an RTA and reference mic.
#10 Mar 23 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Default
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629 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Vlorsutes did a very good job of explaining why SCH is one of the weakest jobs at the moment, he's absolutely right. Still, level SCH if you like it, as it still retains all of the traits that made it amazing in capable hands at 75. The main problems that keep it out of the running now (lack of yellow procs/lack of cure5/6) will matter little once we move on from Abyssea (I hope, who knows what the devs are up to). Even now, if you find yourself outside Abyssea, SCH still destroys BLM when it comes to efficiency (and efficiency is more often than not a major concern without Minikin), and while the WHM overhaul (Afflatus Esuna etc.) cemented WHM as the pre-eminent healing job, SCH can keep up just fine in most situations. Just make sure you do your homework on the job, as it's easily one of the most complex jobs in the game to learn to play efficiently.


Also, with the following version update, we should see blizzard 5 on SCH, which will be a massive leap forward in damage output in almost every abyssea situation. SCH retains its solo capabilities which, depending on the situation, may or may not be better than BLM. I'm anxious to see what this unnamed Light elemental nuke does, honestly. I'd be ecstatic if SCH could segregate from BLM while still performing a very similar role.
#11 Mar 24 2011 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
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824 posts
Quote:
Also, with the following version update, we should see blizzard 5 on SCH, which will be a massive leap forward in damage output in almost every abyssea situation.


Unless we get -aga3 and AM1 as well, it's largely irrelevant. A competent SCH can already keep up with BLM's DoT pretty well, not that damage has anything to do with why you bring a BLM in the first place...

____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#12MrSka681, Posted: Mar 24 2011 at 9:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) one thing i havent seen mentioned about sch yet is its ability to DOT kite. at this its king far above blm and even better than rdm or blu. also w/ its regen abilitys and the fact that a sch/blm now gets SS/blink this puches there abilitys of kiting to new lvls. if the game is moved outside of abyssea i will lvl sch for this alone.
#13 Mar 27 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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824 posts
Quote:
one thing i havent seen mentioned about sch yet is its ability to DOT kite. at this its king far above blm and even better than rdm or blu. also w/ its regen abilitys and the fact that a sch/blm now gets SS/blink this puches there abilitys of kiting to new lvls. if the game is moved outside of abyssea i will lvl sch for this alone.
another negative side i havent seen posted here is sch's sleeping ability while if you need one or 2 good sleepga2's it works fine. but sch's croud control abilitys are limited even more so if they are expected to do anything else.


/sigh
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
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