scholar unbalanced,its ridiculousFollow

If your thinking of "wasted all that time to lvl blm", then your retarded. SCH isn't as good at everything as you seem to imply, we are heavily restricted by light/dark arts, and the strategems we have available. It may be as good at *one* of those things at a time, and very useful in a lot of situations, but not all.

I wish I hadn't.




No. Ancient Magic, AMII, ga nukes, ja spells, not to mention utility spells like stun, enfeebles, sleepgas and elemental dots



Yes, because we know how defining raise II is to WHM's. It's not like they have Raise III or anything. I wouldn't be surprised to see RDM also get Raise II at some point.



BLM, BLU, SMN and PUP would like to have a word with you.



You are very knowledgeable about the job.




You haven't seen any good PUPs have you? And BLM was the ONLY magical DD for years. And even now, BLM still nukes harder than SCH. And I have a feeling it will continue to get nukes that SCH will not have access to. SCH does pull ahead in MP efficiency, but that was not your argument.




I'm not even going to try to decipher what you mean by "secondary job." I've already listed the spells BLM has that SCH doesn't. That also doesn't take into account Job Traits, Job Abilities, gear and a (imho) a superior 2 hour. If you can't see the differences between the two jobs and understand how BLM shines, maybe you did waste your time leveling it.

The OP is an idiot, sure, but I lol'd at that.

Typo aside, why?

Well, that and the fact that it's not very useful in an emergency situation. If you're already out of MP then Tabula Rasa isn't going to do much for you. Manafont gives you free spells and prevents you from being interrupted. TR is great to start out a fight but it won't do you much good in an "oh sh*t" moment. It also bugs me that you don't have access to all strategems while the two hour is active.

No, it's not a waste. It is useful if you are soloing and want to gank an NM at the very start. It would be similarly useful in a zerg type fight, which is another instance where you would use it right away. And you can already use Ebullience on just about all your nukes now as it is, given that you are going to be watching your hate anyway.



It's called reality. Just because you are a tactician does not mean you can plan for every single possible outcome. Events arise in the course of a battle that you did not expect and you have to adapt. Am I to assume that over the course of playing SCH, you've never found yourself in a similar situation in a party?

I stand behind my opinion that Manafont is generally more useful.



Yes, it does apply because some of us play on 360 and therefore windower is never an option.

No matter how you look at it, it's a waste if you use it without spending all of your Strategems first, even if they're all on one spell. There's also the fact that they last a minute.. if you have enough time to buff and prepare, you have enough time to hit a few JAs before rushing in.



I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here, but if you're concerned about hate, you should be using Alacrity or Parsimony along with an Enmity- set; using a standard set with Ebullience doesn't come close over longer fights where you're worried about something big stomping on you.



I see this argument a lot and it mystifies me.. disregarding the first week or two after an update, one can find information regarding every monster in the game, how to defeat it, what to expect, etc. on this very same internet. There's absolutely no reason any mob should catch you with your pants down if you do some research and plan accordingly.

In my experience, human error/stupidity is what causes those situations; to which I say: Play better, with less retards. I didn't level SCH to play faux-RDM and pick up the pieces when idiots fail.



Manafont has exactly two uses: cast spells for free and avoid interruption; it's pretty straightforward. Tabula Rasa, on the other hand:

-Cast every spell at half MP cost, half casting time, half recast time, increased damage, AoE'd, and more with merits.
-Resets Strategem timers, giving you up to 3 free charges
-Removes Arts penalties and optimizes both.

Being able to spam Strategems alone allows for the 2HR to be used effectively in many different situations, in both Light and Dark Arts. In terms of 'usefulness,' I really don't see how Manafont comes close to comparing. It just depends on how much mileage you're able to get out of it.



PCs that run FFXI are cheaper than 360s by a pretty good margin these days, so I wouldn't say it's 'never' an option.. but meh, I don't tell the Amish around here to buy cars, either.

Semantics, whatever.



The 10 minute window was just an example, and I assure you that a minute of unlimited Strategems +3 from the reset is making a huge difference in your damage output. Also, you are dead wrong about the utility of a serious Enmity- set.. stack -50, use Klimaform to make up for lost MACC, use Alacrity on your 2 best nukes, and spam til Klimaform is up. I spent a month tweaking my sets/strategy on HNM, and I always dealt more damage than I did using other strategies, as well as completely destroying the other nukers. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're knowledgeable, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about here.



Yes, I did. But let me elaborate so there's no doubt. SCH isn't RDM. Switching back and forth between Arts, with a few exceptions, is a terrible way to play the job. Either you're there to heal/support, or you're there to blow sh*t up; a SCH that tries to play both roles over the course of a fight becomes nothing more than a RDM-1, with all the Arts restrictions. Therefore, if you are fighting something that you want an all-purpose mage for, you bring a fkn RDM. Not a SCH. If you end up in a situation like this on SCH, you formed your party poorly (didn't plan ahead, didn't do your research, don't know party dynamics, joined a pickup, etc.), and you deserve to lose.

As for me and mine 'walking on water'... the game is 8 years old, most of us have been here for the better part of that, and the game is not rocket science. Sure, everyone makes mistakes, but dammit, I don't think basic competency from the people I choose to play with is asking too much at this point in the game's life.



I define 'useful' as 'having lots of useful uses.' Tabula Rasa has many, many more of those than Manafont does, and the low-MP argument for SCH/RDM is a nonstarter. I don't know about you, but I have to really try to run out of MP in most situations for it to happen. Manafont is only as useful as it is because it alleviates the one glaring flaw of BLM: MP restoration. I think once BLM/RDM gets Refresh, this will become more clear.



Damn you really took that and ran with it, didn't you? There's no argument about saving money in my statement. The point I was trying to make was this: if one is playing FFXI on their xbox in 2010, one would assume they have an internet connection, and if they have no PC, it's likely one of their main sources of entertainment, so they're paying for internet, gold, and FFXI fees, just to play FFXI. I just can't fathom somebody jumping through all those hoops just to play FFXI on an inferior system, when they could have a PC and all it entails for less than the previous investment in the Xbox. (I assume someone willing to pay all those monthly bills to play FFXI has some level of discretionary income)

Concerning the Amish? I drive by Amish buggies every day, I buy all my local produce from them, and I'd even go so far to say that I have some friends amongst their numbers; but I would never be so arrogant as to tell them my particular lifestyle and choices are better than theirs. I'd never tell them to buy a car because it's what I drive and it's better, but there's no denying that the car is superior to the buggy for your transportation needs. See the analogy?

In other words, I'm fully aware that plenty of people choose to play on Xbox, and that's fine, but there's no denying that you guys are playing the inferior copy of the game, for whatever reasons you have. There's no need to take offense, and certainly no need to toss childish aspersions. Need to get out more? Too FFXI-centric? We're playing an 8-yr old game, and have been doing so for years; pot, meet kettle.

(inb4 playin' with bitches' tits in the club, 6-figure bank accounts, private jets, etc.)

I think Manafont is a great 2 hour, but it's overall utility in a clutch situation pales in comparison to TR.

The difference is, Manafont is idiot proof, TR is not. TR isn't a "cumbersome" 2 hour; SCH is a cumbersome job with a 2 hour that revolves around everything that makes SCH that. If you're playing SCH, you need to learn to be fluid with your macros regardless of what platform you're playing on. The only people who think TR is complicated to use are the same people have trouble playing SCH during normal endgame activities or XP pts.

You click Manafont and you have unlimited MP and can't be interrupted. Period. That is Manafont.

You activate Tabula Rasa and you can either stand there like an idiot and be useless or you can have a hybrid Manafont/Chainspell while making things AOE and nukes hit harder. TR is not the problem, players are the problem.

500+ posts with no ban = another blight on alla mods' records.

Abuse is in the eye of the beholder.. the monster can and will kill the sh*t out of you if you make a wrong move; but with movement speed, you actually can outrun something so that it can never touch you, and even continue to cast on it with proper timing. The only difference is that pinning something well enough where you can get such a fast kill actually takes some practice and, dare I say it, skill. In my opinion, killing Genbu by constantly kiting it out of range is much more of an exploit of game mechanics.

Also, how exactly are you defeating these NMs solo without pinning without too much trouble? If you're talking about bringing a normal party that's fine, but it's actually much less efficient than my method. Even if a party of 6 kills it in two minutes, they're still using more Visitant status between them than I am, especially when you add travel time to the kill time.



Of course you're the only mage in this party; when you anticipate a battle to last a minute, tops, and your melee are using HF, MS, etc., Haste loses some of its' luster. No other job can give you that many buffs in so little time, and they're balanced pretty well between offensive and defensive. Ask yourself what a RDM or WHM would cast in preparation for a zerg and compare; I'd certainly prefer the SCH's buffs over them. Also, if you're fast with TR buffs, you can switch to Dark Arts and throw nukes once the melee engage to add some more damage, since it's not like they're going to be taking much through all the buffs you gave them.



I'm curious as to why you think using Accession on spells that SCH gets natively is going against the entire purpose of the job...?



Getting caught with your pants down, and running into an especially Tribulation-happy Soulflayer aren't really the same thing; you kinda expect that sort of thing out of a Soulflayer. Getting caught with your pants down would be more like running around in Dark Arts and then getting surprised into switching roles; like I said before, I take invites to heal/support, or to blow sh*t up. When I did Nyzul I was usually there to heal/support, so using Addendum: White and Accession with my native spells to cure status debuffs? That's my job. Are we fighting a monster that uses a ton of AoE status debuffs? Better save my charges for Accession and have TR ready if it gets ugly, to keep things moving. The point of using Tabula Rasa in this instance is not survival; that shouldn't be an issue, period. The point is to use your spells and abilities with the proper timing to speed things along in a timed instance; TR can be extremely helpful to that end.

Besides, what's a non-mythic WHM going to do when a Soulflayer uses Tribulation 4 times in a row? Wish he was on SCH.



I'd say that knowing about Tribulation in advance, recognizing that you're the one on status cure duty, keeping Strategems in reserve for Accession, staying in Addendum: White, and using Tabula Rasa if necessary to keep Accession, and by extension the party, moving in a timed zone, would be a pass for doing the research and planning accordingly. I'm sorry but you'll have to try harder than that..



Of course Chainspell Raise is faster. But, so is a TR SCH faster at raising than a non-TR SCH.



Well ok, if you want to take the broadest view possible.. we are mages after all. The fact remains that we can cast a wide variety of magic, and we can alter it in several ways with unlimited Strategems. Manafont is still just free MP on a job that's a one-trick pony. Doesn't compare.



Not exactly; neither of my Dark Arts examples would remotely qualify as emergency usage. Spamming Raises isn't either; that's speeding up the triage after a wipe, not saying osh*t and preventing the wipe. Pre-fight buffs hardly qualifies. Only the Soulflayer example kinda fits, and in that case it's not exactly an osh*t situation; the main purpose is to speed things up in a timed zone.

That's twice now that you took my 'faux-RDM' comment out of context; that applies to situations where you're switching Arts too much and trying to handle situations that would normally require Addenda to perform effectively, thus making you ineffective. A RDM would fill that role much better, hence 'faux-RDM.'



Stating and defending facts is not arrogance, it just appears that way when you stubbornly insist on being on the other side. And again with the personal? I don't even understand how you can possibly get that impression through message boards; and last time I checked, your posts are just as long-winded, nitpicky, argumentative, and mired in semantics as mine are, so again, pot, kettle, etc.



I'm glad to have been of some use, but I don't understand how you can make several posts trying to pick apart every point I make, tossing personal insults while you're at it, and then agree with me out of nowhere at the end of one of them. Next time just lead off with that and save us both some time.

Less filling.



Less filling!!



Less filling!!!!!!!!!!!



Less filling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Less filling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Less filling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(your conversation is going nowhere)

Edited, Sep 7th 2010 2:41pm by Ahrana

Agreed lol. Although, all you rate-downers could, y'know, contribute and try to liven up this section of the forums a little.



I'm usually pretty clear whether I'm stating fact or opinion, I do realize the difference between the two.



You're absolutely right, I haven't partied with WHMs much since they got fixed so I'm always forgetting about all their new toys.



Well... I think that's an issue of perspective. You have to realize that SCH is essentially WHM and BLM rolled into one job, with metamagic abilities to distinguish it; it stands to reason that we would naturally compare ourselves to the specialists in each school of magic. I am more than happy to concede the healer role back to WHM, which is well deserved after the effort SE put into fixing it. (That, and healing is zzz for me =p ) In the case of BLM though, they still haven't given me a compelling reason to ever use mine over SCH (except for obvious instances where -ga/Stun are needed, etc).

Look at it this way; WHM spent years as the second-tier healer behind RDM, and once they rolled SCH out it got even worse. But, after the community bitched and bitched, they eventually fixed WHM and gave us the awesome healer we have now. Our only hope for a BLM revamp is to be as loud about it as possible, so if anything we're doing them a favour. ;)

I wouldn't say *miles* but /SCH was a big boost to WHM for sure. You're forgetting how boss AoE Stoneskin was at 75 too, SCH was still outclassing WHM in pure damage mitigation at that point.

I admit I didn't read every post here, so I'm not sure if this was covered. But if you set up your in games macros right, you can push the same combo 3 times during Tabula Rasa, to have the same affect as windower(which btw, doesn't do this autmatically for you, you still have to write the macro, or use and configure the spellcast plugin), so using the crutch of playing on console isn't really an arguement, just learn to write macros better.

I'd like to give this thread a needed dose of relevant TVTropes, so here.

No sh*t. That's what I was advocating, in case you didn't notice.



I'm not sure if you're directing this at me, but I assure you I don't need advice from you on how to organize my sh*t.



You use spellcast so you can be 'lazy'? And you want to sit there and preach to me about how to use it? You wonder why I'm unable to take anything you're saying seriously?



Coming from the guy who decides to necro a month-old thread with this kind of nonsense? Right.

This isn't as true as it used to be. Now that BLM has Aspir II, Refresh, and Convert, they will outlast you on anything with MP, and I would've given up working on my Magian staves long ago if I had to do them on SCH; if you can find a good camp, aga-burning is 2-3 times more kills per hour.

Also don't hate on Burn, I <3 Burn!

I gotta agree with this post, /rdm has made mp not much of an issue for blm or for sch and aspir II Ive seen to be quite powerful. Also with most of the relevant content being inside abyssea, the use of temp items makes mp even less of an issue. As for agas while true it isn't useful in every situation, it is useful in magian trials and blm are VERY sought after for various exp camps like worms or fell cleave groups.

I personally have yet to be asked to heal on sch after 75. To me I'm more like a slightly weaker single target nuker except when I use ebullience at which point I'm on par or slightly ahead of blm in nuking and I have no access to any aoe nuking and I just happen to have access to reraise 2 and raise 2.

I'm not saying sch needs a boost or anything, I'm just saying blm really isn't as bad off as most people think.

Normally I'd bitch about the necro, but I lol'd at this one so I approve!