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#1 Jul 14 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Hi hi, Scholar forum :) My character's name was Serena on Pandemonium. I haven't played since September, but I think I might make a return to the game. Not sure if I will stay on Asura or migrate over to play with a RL friend on Sylph, but I will be on one of those two servers. At any rate, when I left, I had a mid 50s Scholar, and should I return, that is going to be the job I am going to focus on. With that in mind, I have some gearing questions! :)

First off, I wasn't very involved in endgame stuff, so I'm pretty limited in my experience there. I have a 75 puppetmaster as my highest job, but hopefully if I go over to Sylph my Paladin friend will be able to help me work towards gear. I've read a bit about Abyssea and seen some of the gear sets. I'm also familiar with the sets from various assaults. I know that as with any other job, there is no full time set of armor to wear, but I am kind of looking for a baseline to start at. With all of the abyssa stuff released, is there any benefit to doing the assaults over and over for points?

I've read that it is beneficial for Scholar to have various armor sets for whatever role they might be filling. While I know that they can do more than just heal / buff, I do want to start off building a set for that since it is what I prefer to do. As I get back in the swing of things, I can work toward enfeebling and nuking sets. So for now, please consider that I am looking for a healing / support role. Being that I haven't reactivated my account yet, I can't tell you what all I have already, but I can say it isn't anything extensive. I know I have all of the elemental staffs, only NQ. I have some +mp gear.

I suppose I just want to be able to plan my return so I can get as much catching up done as effectively as possible. Would I be better off taking SCH to 80 right away and THEN working on getting better gear, or should I take the time to get PUP to 80, get gear for SCH, and then level it? Thanks so much in advance for all of your help, I really appreciate the assistance!!

Serena
#2 Jul 14 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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Well since you don't know exactly what gear you have on you I will give you general guidelines for what gear you should be looking for.

Healing Magic
Prioritize gear in the following order:
1. Cure Potency +%
2. Enmity -X
3. Healing Magic +X
4. MND
5. Fast Cast/Haste

Enhancing Magic
The gear set you will use will depend on the buff you are casting, but you can divide them into three categories for buffs.

  • Enhancing Magic Only
  • Enspells, Barspells, Phalanx. Just stack Enhancing Magic.

  • Stoneskin
  • Self explanatory what is contained in here. Use a mixed set of MND and Enhancing Magic, prioritizing MND unless you can get three times as much Enhancing Magic as you could mind in the slot.

  • No Effect
  • Pro/Shell, Storms, Blink, Regens, Haste. Stacking MND or Enhancing Magic does nothing for these spells and you shouldn't worry about changing gear sets. If you're really completionist about it you could stack Fast Cast/Haste gear to help casting/recast times.

    HMP
    In addition to these two sets, you're going to need a healing mp set as well. I'll assume this is self explanatory for you since you already have experience with this game.
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    #3 Jul 14 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Generally good advice above. In addition, you could consider Conserve MP gearsets for non-stat based spells.

    With regard to enhancement spells: As above, Phalanx and Enspells are purely based on your magic skill. Stack that wherever possible. It's also worth noting what exactly that enhancing magic does to your output, as it tends to run by tiers of effectiveness. For example, a good rule of thumb with Phalanx is every 10 skill you gain, i.e. 280-290, the damage resistance improves by one (until it caps at 300 skill). Thus, if you're lingering around, for example, 287 skill, that extra 7 skill is doing nothing. At this point you can adjust your gear to cover other bases, which I'll suggest in a moment.

    Enspells gain one damage for every 20 skill you gain after a certain threshold (check the wiki for the formulae). As these are offensive magic spells, "surplus" skill improves the accuracy of the damage landing for full, unresisted. Thus, cutting out skill points may not be entirely beneficial as compared to Phalanx.

    Stoneskin is a spell unto its own: it's based on your MND and enhancing magic skill on the cast. It caps at 350 (outside of using special items). Because of the skill discrepancy between Light and Dark Arts, your SS set can change very rapidly. Again, check the formulae on the wiki for these. If you can cap out SS with most of your gear, the other slots can be used for Haste/Conserve MP/-enmity.

    Consider -emnity where you can't fit in anything else useful when Accession buffing, as you can generate hefty amounts of VE.

    Edited, Jul 14th 2010 3:47pm by Secretkeeper
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    #4 Jul 14 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    Healing Magic
    Prioritize gear in the following order:
    1. Cure Potency +%
    2. Enmity -X
    3. Healing Magic +X
    4. MND
    5. Fast Cast/Haste


    Fast Cast-Haste should go above MND and Healing magic (Which have a minimal impact), and possibly before -Enmity. How fast you can cure can be critical in many scenarios. Of special importance when we use our AoE Stratagems, since it renders that particular cure unusable for a large amount of time.


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    #5 Jul 14 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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    Thanks so much for the replies thus far! I really appreciate the help and rate up's all around :) One thing I forgot to mention is that I haven't done any of the 3 minis, so I have those as an option for gear as well. Are they worth using on SCH, or should I hold off until I decide if I want to finish PUP or BRD? Thanks again!

    Serena
    #6 Jul 14 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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    Drakonite wrote:
    Fast Cast-Haste should go above MND and Healing magic (Which have a minimal impact), and possibly before -Enmity


    Fast Cast gear only needs to be worn when you start the cast; if you are wearing it when the spell fires (assuming you're not stacking recast-), you are sacrificing potency for laziness and, therefore, are doing it wrong.
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    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #7 Jul 14 2010 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Fast Cast gear only needs to be worn when you start the cast; if you are wearing it when the spell fires (assuming you're not stacking recast-), you are sacrificing potency for laziness and, therefore, are doing it wrong.


    Recast was precisely the reason I said it needs to be priority over MND/Healing magic. Even 1 second off the recast is millions of times better than the 0-3 extra HP you could squeeze of MND/Healing Magic.

    Besides, it's not like our current options overlap any important piece for our cures.



    Edited, Jul 14th 2010 10:17pm by Drakonite
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    #8 Jul 14 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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    Cure recast times are already low; reducing it from 5 seconds to ~4 at the cost of potency/enmity- isn't really my idea of a good trade-off, but meh, whatever works for you I guess.
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    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #9 Jul 15 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
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    0-2 more HP healed falls into the "Nearly Irrelevant" territory to me. However, anyone getting cured one second later IS a pretty big deal; as that can often make the difference

    Really, you've overestimating the amount of stuff we can squeeze in the slots that have Fast Cast/Haste. Basically, only swift belt gets in the way of any serious potency if you're using the Korin Obi. Veela's competes with Errant for a -enmity chunk. And AF2 Hat with a Cure pot Selenian cap for anyone that got that. Feet/Grip/ExtraEar have nothing to write home about.





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    #10 Jul 15 2010 at 4:30 AM Rating: Decent
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    If you want to argue Potency vs. Recast that's fine, the increase to either is quite small. However, you can get substantial amounts of Enmity- in all of those slots.. considering that CureIV heals the most HP while generating large amounts of enmity, along with the enmity spikes from Accession, I don't see how one could possibly argue that recast gear is superior for Cure spells. I guess if you're trying to heal a merit party with sh*tty MP-sponge DDs that require constant Cure4 spam.. every other situation I can think of, from HNM to 6-man events like Nyzul/Salvage to various lowman situations, Enmity- will always, always win.

    Besides, I can only think of a handful of situations in this game where a player would take enough constant damage to make recast- gear actually useful for Cures, and most of them involve varying degrees of ineptitude on everyone involved's part.
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    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #11 Jul 15 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    However, you can get substantial amounts of Enmity- in all of those slots


    -37/41 is more than enough for what I do. And barring Errant/Veela (I use errant), only head has any significant chunk if you actually bothered to carry a piece exclusively for -Enmity.

    Quote:
    Besides, I can only think of a handful of situations in this game where a player would take enough constant damage to make recast- gear actually useful for Cures, and most of them involve varying degrees of ineptitude on everyone involved's part.


    You don't do VNM's I take it? Or never fought a mob Hundred Fisting?





    ____________________________
    It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
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    #12 Jul 15 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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    puppetmasterserena wrote:
    Thanks so much for the replies thus far! I really appreciate the help and rate up's all around :) One thing I forgot to mention is that I haven't done any of the 3 minis, so I have those as an option for gear as well. Are they worth using on SCH, or should I hold off until I decide if I want to finish PUP or BRD? Thanks again!

    Serena


    I made all 3 mini-expansion pieces for RDM + SCH, and I have to say I'm very happy with them. Making a mACC/MAB body is a little lackluster now that Teal Saio is out, but the nuking head still packs a wallop, and I love the Movement Speed +8% legs since I don't have Herald's Gaiters.

    Basically any of the 3 pieces can be made useful for SCH, just depends what direction you want to take them in.
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    #13 Jul 16 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    -37/41 is more than enough for what I do.


    Enmity-33% is 50% more HP cured for the same amount of hate; Enmity-50% is 100% more HP cured for the same amount of hate. Those last 17% are the most valuable points you can get, I hardly see the point of wearing 30-40 if you're not willing to use more. Also, why in the hell wouldn't you carry gear strictly for Enmity- when you're main-healing on SCH?

    Quote:
    You don't do VNM's I take it?


    Ionno how you fought your VNMs, but I soloed my Krabkatoas on RDM/SCH and lowmanned the rest as RDM/NIN with a SMN / RNG or two. Certainly not situations that would require CureIV spam, regardless.

    Quote:
    Or never fought a mob Hundred Fisting?


    Cure IV spam during Hundred Fists is a good way to go down with the ship; Bind, Sleep, Gravity, Kite, Phalanx, Sentinel, Invincible...... If you don't have one of these methods of countering it available to you, why are you even bothering? Whatever.
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    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #14 Jul 16 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Decent
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    I find it funny how your excuse is others fault/other strategy on almost every argument. I can do it too, you see: If I need more than -30 enmity to begin with, someone is doing it very wrong.

    Gosh that was easy. No wonder why you do it.

    As for some actual discussion:

    Quote:
    Enmity-33% is 50% more HP cured for the same amount of hate; Enmity-50% is 100% more HP cured for the same amount of hate. Those last 17% are the most valuable points you can get, I hardly see the point of wearing 30-40 if you're not willing to use more. Also, why in the hell wouldn't you carry gear strictly for Enmity- when you're main-healing on SCH?


    The point is that if you're not pulling hate, adding more -Enmity at the cost of potency is counter-productive. I've known about Enmity increasing returns thing since the day Kaeko spoke about it. It's still too excessive, specially since pulling hate is not always avoidable with simply piling on -Enmity (Dawon says hi).

    Besides, I do carry certain pieces strictly for -Enmity. I can hit -46 with belt (Which I've yet to use), and -50 will be possible when I respec my Dragon Pants. The impact this will have on my gameplay will be extremely marginal, however.

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    It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
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    #15 Jul 16 2010 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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    Quote:
    I find it funny how your excuse is others fault/other strategy on almost every argument. I can do it too, you see:


    I make those statements within very particular contexts; yours is what I'd call a blanket statement. If you're going to attempt to mock me, at least try to get it right next time.

    Quote:
    If I need more than -30 enmity to begin with, someone is doing it very wrong.


    Any fight that requires regular cures and takes over 30 minutes is going to cap your Enmity without any gear; this happened to me on a regular basis camping and holding HNMs. But you knew this I'm sure; I'm just giving you an example of how to properly refute an argument, instead of sniping like a primary-schooler.

    Quote:
    The point is that if you're not pulling hate, adding more -Enmity at the cost of potency is counter-productive.


    You already said that potency wasn't worth it, where'd the recast argument go?

    Quote:
    And barring Errant/Veela (I use errant), only head has any significant chunk if you actually bothered to carry a piece exclusively for -Enmity.


    Quote:
    Besides, I do carry certain pieces strictly for -Enmity.


    If you want to talk sh*t on my means of debate, get your own house in order first... so sick of having to correct/fend off your nonsense every time I post.

    Edited, Jul 16th 2010 4:50am by LyltiaofLakshmi
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    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #16 Jul 16 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    I make those statements within very particular contexts; yours is what I'd call a blanket statement


    It wasn't a blanket statement. It's basically true for everything I do. And it's pretty much on par to your attempts to justify yourself.

    Quote:
    You already said that potency wasn't worth it, where'd the recast argument go?


    It was this:
    Quote:
    I hardly see the point of wearing 30-40 if you're not willing to use more


    -3 Enmity from feet aside, hitting -50 would require me to sacrifice real Cure Potency at the moment.

    Besides, you still don't understand the basic principle behind all of this. -50 Enmity and Perfect Cure gear does not matter if your target is dead. This is why casting faster (And by correlation, recasting faster) is the most important thing you can enhance as a healer. SCH's don't get Cure V, and thus rely on Cure IV-III-IV or IV-IV spamming much more.

    I'd sooner pull hate than be that 1 second late on my cures. I will most likely survive and the tank will eventually get it back, provided he is alive.

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    - Pythagoras
    #17 Jul 16 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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    Alright, I'm thoroughly sick of arguing this with you, so I ran some actual tests on Cure IV recast:

    SCH/RDM 80, naked: 7s
    +Light Arts: 6s
    +Argute M.Board: 6s
    +Scholar's Loafers: 5s
    +Loquacious Earring: 5s
    +Fay Staff (FC+2): 5s
    +Teal Cuffs: 5s
    +Swift Belt: 5s
    +Goliard Saio: 5s
    +Tatsu. Sitagoromo (Haste+3): 5s
    Trade Argute M.Board for W.Turban: 5s

    SCH/WHM 80, naked: 8s
    +Light Arts: 7s
    +Argute M.Board: 6s
    +Scholar's Loafers: 6s
    +Loquacious Earring: 6s
    +Fay Staff (FC+2): 6s
    +Teal Cuffs: 6s
    +Swift Belt: 6s
    +Goliard Saio: 5s
    +Tatsu. Sitagoromo (Haste+3): 5s
    Trade Argute M.Board for W.Turban: 5s

    As you can see, 2 slots gives you the same real recast that 8 slots does; even with /WHM (which only matters temporarily, anyway) you have to give up 6 slots to get to 5s. Try it yourself; you clearly didn't before you ranted on about it all over the thread. You want to drop this nonsense now, or want to keep going?
    ____________________________
    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #18 Jul 16 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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    So... Thanks for proving my point? That the amount of FC gear needed is minimal and that you barely sacrifice anything? At least now I know I only need to do 1 swap for /WHM (Which hopefully I won't have to do anytime soon).

    Btw, Teal Cuffs don't alter recasts.







    Edited, Jul 16th 2010 1:09pm by Drakonite
    ____________________________
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    #19 Jul 16 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    So... Thanks for proving my point? That the amount of FC gear needed is minimal and that you barely sacrifice anything?


    No, no, nice try though. The point was to show that you should already have a 5 second recast with /RDM using standard Cure gear, so stacking more recast gear like you were advocating earlier is a complete waste.

    If you backpedal any faster you're gonna go back in time or something.

    ____________________________
    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
    #20 Jul 16 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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    If by backpedaling you mean pointing out what I said on my first 2 posts in the thread, then yes.

    Drakonite wrote:
    Fast Cast-Haste should go above MND and Healing magic (Which have a minimal impact), and possibly before -Enmity.

    Drakonite wrote:
    Besides, it's not like our current options overlap any important piece for our cures.


    I distinctively remember pointing out that I don't use Veela's/Swift as well.

    And

    Quote:
    The point was to show that you should already have a 5 second recast with /RDM using standard Cure gear.


    Exactly? By choosing not to use even AF1 Feet, you're gimping your recast to 6 (Unless your dragon Pants are Curepot/Haste? G.Saio alone won't do it). Which is basically what you argued for.

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    #21 Jul 17 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Exactly? By choosing not to use even AF1 Feet, you're gimping your recast to 6 (Unless your dragon Pants are Curepot/Haste? G.Saio alone won't do it). Which is basically what you argued for.


    If you're not going to bother doing the tests yourself, at least read a little more carefully; you have to wear both AF and Relic to get to a 5s recast. If you honestly think that giving up MND+7 Enmity-6 (Goliard + Teal) is worth 1 second of recast on the job with the most robust damage mitigation abilities in the game (which just so happen to generate large amounts of enmity)... I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Seriously, I leveled this sh*t as soon as it came out and I can count the number of times I cast CureIV back to back on one hand.

    Also, 6s compared to 5s is a gimped recast? Composure and Seigan, those gimp recasts. Acting like 1 extra second matters on Cure IV for SCH is just stupid. Allow me to indulge when I say, if you're spamming Cure IV back-to-back on SCH, and that 1 second is making the difference between life and death, something's definitely wrong somewhere; your tank sucks, your party structure is subpar, your other support is asleep.. I could go on. I sure as hell am not gimping myself out of a chunk of MND and Enmity- to pick up somebody else's slack; but then again, my LS knows how to play the game.

    I'm pretty sure another argument we had ended this way, so let me give you some advice, in hopes to avoid a 3-peat; either find a new LS with people who know what the hell they're doing so that you can learn to play the job properly, or remove your head from your ass. Either will get you favourable results.

    Edited, Jul 17th 2010 3:02pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
    ____________________________
    rdmcandie wrote:
    RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

    rdmcandie wrote:
    MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
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