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#27 Sep 19 2009 at 8:07 PM Rating: Default
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Weather / Day have very little effects on enspell's. Your talking ~2 extra damage possibly. That's why its always best to target the monsters weakness element so you get highest possibly accuracy rate (full land rate).

That being said, almost every monster I've ever fought has been weak to ice, or at least neutral to thunder. What does 5/5 Voidstorm do?


Stormsurge 5/5 voidstorm? +3 to all stats.
#28 Sep 19 2009 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Weather / Day have very little effects on enspell's. Your talking ~2 extra damage possibly.


Regardless of the amount of initial damage, Weather/Day procs increase the damage by the same percentage. Sure, it may be a relatively small increase per Enspell proc, but when you consider that it can proc on each hit made by each player over a 3 minute duration, it adds up in a hurry.

Quote:
That's why its always best to target the monsters weakness element so you get highest possibly accuracy rate (full land rate).


I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is always true (Some targets are not weak to any Enspell, target is weak enough for resists to be a non-issue), but it's an excellent point regardless and should definitely be considered when choosing which Storm/Enspell combination to use.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#29 Sep 20 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I was talking about day/weather bonus in comparison to actual monster resistance. If there monster doesn't have a pronounced weakness, then might as well choose an element that matches day / weather.

Was asking about Voidstorm because earlier someone mentioned Firestorm up with enfire. Vs something like G.Colibri (weak ice) going from enfire to enblizzard shows a definite improvement. But have fire weather up would be counter productive to the enblizzard effect. So possible would Voidstorm + Enblizzard be an acceptable alternative?
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#30 Sep 20 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So possible would Voidstorm + Enblizzard be an acceptable alternative?


Absolutely, that's exactly what i would do in that situation.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#31 Sep 21 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Well I was talking about day/weather bonus in comparison to actual monster resistance. If there monster doesn't have a pronounced weakness, then might as well choose an element that matches day / weather.

Was asking about Voidstorm because earlier someone mentioned Firestorm up with enfire. Vs something like G.Colibri (weak ice) going from enfire to enblizzard shows a definite improvement. But have fire weather up would be counter productive to the enblizzard effect. So possible would Voidstorm + Enblizzard be an acceptable alternative?


Except that colibri mobs have neutral resistance vs fire spells, therefore with even a remotely acceptable enhancing build, you shouldn't have large resists often with enfire. The 4 extra STR from firestorm is going to be a greater help on those SAM WSs than the extra damage you MIGHT see from a few less resists on enblizzard.
#32 Sep 21 2009 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Except that colibri mobs have neutral resistance vs fire spells, therefore with even a remotely acceptable enhancing build, you shouldn't have large resists often with enfire. The 4 extra STR from firestorm is going to be a greater help on those SAM WSs than the extra damage you MIGHT see from a few less resists on enblizzard.


Where to start..

Colibri are naturally resistant to magic in general, not to mention the fact that they're VT. You are going to see substantial resists while using a neutral Enspell against them.

As such, STR+4 on one SAM's WS damage is not going to wind up dealing more damage than the difference between Enfirega and Enblizzardga on Colibri/Puks/Mamools.

Furthermore, if you have more than one SAM, why are you even bothering with Enspellgas in the first place? Enspellga is for 1-handers/Dual-Wielders; a 2-hander party will do much, much more damage if you use that charge on defensive spells to allow them to use DD subjobs.

Circular logic is circular.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 12:32pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#33 Sep 21 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Enspells are mostly for 1-handers and Monks. 2Handers in general (And SAM in particular) benefit a lot more from the extra STR.


Quote:
a 2-hander party will do much, much more damage if you use that charge on defensive spells to allow them to use DD subjobs.


I don't understand what you mean by this. DRG DRK and WAR should all be /SAM for lolibri anyways; and SAM should be /WAR or /DRG regardless.

Really, at this point the only DD job that gets a serious boost to their DD abilities at a great expense of survivability is a MNK/WAR. And I'm doubtful a SCH can keep a good one alive without some sort of extra support (3 support 3 DD?).


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#34Banggugyangu, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 12:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 1st off, yes, they're innately resistant to magic. However, without hard proof, I would be hard-pressed to say that there are "substantial resists" for a neutral spell. Perhaps you don't use an enhancing build? Your enhancing magic skill effects damage AND resist rate for the en-spell on all under the effect.
#35 Sep 21 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I don't understand what you mean by this. DRG DRK and WAR should all be /SAM for lolibri anyways; and SAM should be /WAR or /DRG regardless.


What exactly is so difficult for you to understand here? Allow me to break it down for you.

In any merit party, you can keep 2 3-minute duration buffs on, along with 1-2 Stoneskin casts, per 3 minute cycle. One of those buffs is always going to be Firestorm (Edit: Except when it's not!).

In a 1H/DW party (as in, doesn't include the jobs you listed above) that second buff is going to be Enspellga, as they will likely have Utsusemi to defend themselves with, and Enspell damage is subject to increasing returns as weapon delay decreases.

In a 2H party party, Enspellga isn't nearly as powerful, so the solution is to use Phalanxga instead and encourage DD subjob use to increase kill speed.

All rather obvious, right? Alright, now let's apply that to the original statement that was so confusing:

Quote:
Furthermore, if you have more than one SAM, why are you even bothering with Enspellgas in the first place? Enspellga is for 1-handers/Dual-Wielders; a 2-hander party will do much, much more damage if you use that charge on defensive spells to allow them to use DD subjobs.


As you can see here, in the bolded portion, you seem to have merely reworded my statement. Kinda hard to understand how it was confusing when you all but copy-pasted it from my post.

Of course, that wasn't even the point I was trying to make in the first place; in the italicized portion, I was clearly saying that in a mixed DD party that nonetheless consists of mainly 2H DDs, defensive buffs + DD subjobs is the correct choice.

What exactly were you trying to contribute here, again?

Quote:
Really, at this point the only DD job that gets a serious boost to their DD abilities at a great expense of survivability is a MNK/WAR. And I'm doubtful a SCH can keep a good one alive without some sort of extra support (3 support 3 DD?).


Missing the point entirely. For one, DD/NIN switching to DD/DD is trading survivability for DD potential; Utsusemi is one of the most powerful defensive tools in the game, and, using /WAR as an example, Berserk, Double Attack, and Warcry together add a huge chunk of damage to any job. If your SCH is busy ******** around giving your SAMs and DRKs Enspells instead of Phalanx, they are going to take too much damage without /NIN for the party to be viable. This was the point I was trying to make, and you took one sentence completely out of context and ran with it on a wholly retarded tangent. In the future, please pay more attention before you decide to copy/paste/quote a sentence fragment out of context for your nitpicking pleasure.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 5:48pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#36 Sep 21 2009 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
1st off, yes, they're innately resistant to magic. However, without hard proof, I would be hard-pressed to say that there are "substantial resists" for a neutral spell. Perhaps you don't use an enhancing build? Your enhancing magic skill effects damage AND resist rate for the en-spell on all under the effect.


Hard proof? Go test it out yourself, it's blatantly obvious to the naked eye. Perhaps I don't use an enhancing build? Don't pander to me.

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2nd: I'm confused why you're suggesting that I'm sacrificing the 2 handed melees using a more offensive subjob? If the SAMs aren't using either /DRG or /WAR, and the WARs, DRKs, and DRGs aren't using /SAM, then I'm better off in a different PT or solo.


I was using something called logic; first I stated that the added damage from STR+4 on one SAM's overall damage will not overcome the difference in damage between 3 minutes of a neutral Enspellga compared to a strong Enspellga on all party members which, according to the parameters i set forth, will be 1H/DW DDs. Then, I stated that adding more SAMs to the equation was a moot point, because a 2nd SAM would entail not using Enspells in the first place. Try to keep up.

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3rd: Name 1 weapon skill used by 2 handed melee jobs during meripo that doesn't have STR as its highest modifier.


Why? I never stated otherwise. Once you graduate high school in a few years, you ought to consider taking a debate class if you manage to make it into higher education; it'll help you stay on topic.

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4th: Weather/day offers accuracy to spells. Firestorm offers accuracy to enfire. It'll increase damage potential, sure, but the real reason for the appropriate weather on en-spells is the accuracy.


For the last time, produce proof on this; real, solid, irrefutable proof, or drop it for good.

Quote:
5th: 7 STR is essentially +5.25 base damage for YGK. That's pretty huge. +3 to all stats is essentially +1/2 acc and +2.25 base damage for YGK. That's nice but fairly 'meh'. The only argument you could give for voidstorm in this aspect is when considering situations like penta-thrust: where firestorm offers +1.4 base damage and voidstorm offers +1.2 base damage. If you're using drakesbane, however, Firestorm offers +3.5 base damage and voidstorm offers +1.5 base damage.


You're absolutely correct; however, you're not looking at the entire equation, therefore this statement is as valid as my bus pass. You're talking about YGK, but I believe I've stated several times that if there's more than one 2H DD in a party, you forgo Enspellgas altogether in favour of Phalanxga, and, as stated above, a party of 1H/DW DDs with Enspellga will more than make up for that STR+4.

I'll just repeat, in case you missed it the first few times: Day/Weather effects have, to my knowledge, never been conclusively proven to add accuracy to spells/effects of their respective elements. Please provide your proof on this subject if you'd like to maintain the last shred of credibility you still, against my better judgement, possess.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#37Drakonite, Posted: Sep 21 2009 at 8:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The one that doesn't understand my argument here is you.
#38 Sep 21 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Drakonite wrote:
You entailed that DD's should use a "More DD oriented subjob" when Phalanxga enters the picture. I say that shouldn't even matter, they should already be bringing said subjobs.
There is no advantage from changing WAR/SAM to WAR/SAM or DRG/SAM to DRG/SAM.

He means that most DD's usually go with a defensive sub normally (to mitigate damage), like /NIN or /DNC (for SAM's, or other quick-tp gaining jobs), and this allows them to go with more offensive subs, like WAR, or SAM.


Drakonite wrote:
Perhaps the one that should analyze the context before going on a "retarded tangent" here is you.

ok, how about a random tangent, like: "/rdm kicks the **** out of /drg for sch"?


Edit: minor grammer and spelling mistakes fixed.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:01pm by Vestrivan
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#39 Sep 22 2009 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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Alright, so you're saying that, regardless of which DD jobs are present and which support jobs are present, using /WAR /SAM etc. is always the most viable way to approach a merit party? Forgive me for saying so but, besides being blatantly wrong, this is a very narrow-minded view to have on the subject. Personally, I've had parties where none of the four DDs were /NIN, I was on RDM, and there was 1 BRD present, and I never even had to Convert; I've also had parties where I was stretching my MP pool to the breaking point after a few fights, even with 2 BRDs present. I'm fairly certain these experiences are hardly unique.

The simple fact of the matter is that SCH can choose to lean towards offensive buffs, or concentrate on defensive buffs; when using defensive buffs, it makes a no-/NIN party much more viable than without, and there are many, many factors that come into play, including jobs present, how well-geared they are, and individual skills. If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore this while spouting off that DD subjobs are the best and therefore only option, I assure you that you are going to have more failed parties than someone who is willing to adjust based on the individual circumstances at hand. Allow me to lend you some perspective; the purpose of the merit party is to gain as much xp/hr as possible. If you try forcing your ideal setup on a less than ideal set of conditions, you are going to see a lot more fail, and will therefore earn less xp/hr over the long run than the person who adjusts each time.

All I said to begin with was that SCH, when played defensively, is highly conducive to DDs that are geared towards pure offense; while a party of DDs that use /NIN can benefit from Enspellgas to make up for some of the lost damage potential. Then, you showed up and said:

Quote:
DRG DRK and WAR should all be /SAM for lolibri anyways; and SAM should be /WAR or /DRG regardless.


You insist that there is one correct way, one best way, and any other way is just wrong, which leads me to my next point. It seems like we **** heads quite often, and it always boils down to the same issue; you like to make generalizations, whereas I prefer to look a bit deeper at all the situational aspects of the topic at hand, and quite frankly, it's getting tiresome. This job, and FFXI in general, is all about preparation, planning, and adaptability. You seem to have little interest in the latter, hence why we rarely see eye-to-eye. It's a shame, really, because you are one of the more knowledgable posters here; I just don't see the point in continuing to debate when it so quickly devolves into arguments over semantics and thinly-veiled insults. Then again, I suppose that's what the internet's for in the first place, so meh.

Also.. merit parties? Really? If we're gonna argue over stupid ****, please, let's make it about anything but merits.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#40 Sep 22 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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Wow I can't believe someone actually questioned me on my enspell knowledge.

Ok I'll break it down to the guy who doesn't understand spell resists and monster resistance.

Enhancing Skill during cast determines magic accuracy on tier I enspells. This is why its dreadfully important for a meleeing RDM (and incidentally a buffing SCH) to have the highest possible enhancing skill. Even if it doesn't get you into another "tier" for damage, it still enhances magic accuracy. My current setup has me at 315 enhancing skill, all I need is the merciful cape and I'll be at 320 which is the current highest possible for a RDM.

That being said, a 300 enhancing skill enblizzard has approx 80% effectiveness against greater colibri. Against conventional wisdom, G.Colibri actually have no negative resistance, this no real weakness. What they have is an amazingly high resistance to everything -BUT- Ice, with near immunity to Wind. So in effect they are neutral to Ice, but since that's their lowest resistance its what we target.

Second, contrary to popular opinion, STR does more for 1H then for 2H because it ignored delay. STR's primary purpose is to enhance base damage through fSTR (and WSC during WS). Since this is irrespective of the current damage / delay of the weapon involved (exception is when then cap is reached) it favors lower D / lower delay weapons.

Example, for this I am excluding haste because it will have the same effect on both sides.

PH/Joy vs Perdu GAXE (just using as example of fSTR)

Perdu Hangar
D44 Delay 225
Joyeuse
D35 Delay 224(1.45 DA divider) 224/1.45 = 154.4
(225+154.4) * .80 = 303.5 /2 = 151.7 delay per attack
151.7/60 = 2.52 seconds per attack
D44 + 35 = 79 /2 = 39.5 per attack
39.5/2.52 = 15.67 DPS

Perdu Voulge
D96 Delay 504
504/60 = 8.4 seconds per attack
at 96D per attack
96/8.4 = 11.42 DPS

8.4/2.52 = 3.33
The DW setup gets 3.33 attacks in for every 1 attack of the GAXE

Now lets add some STR in there and assume your at a decent STR level.
At 90 STR during TP.
90-67= 23
(23+4)/4 = 6.75 [6] fSTR
This is added on a per hit basis.

(44+6) = 50, (35+6) = 41
D50 + 41 = 91 /2 = 45.5 per attack
45.5/2.52 = 18.05 DPS For sword
18.05/15.67 = 1.151, or a 15.1% increase in DPS from fSTR

96+6 = 102
102/8.4 = 12.14 DPS
12.14/11.42 = 1.063 or a 6.3% increase in DPS from fSTR

And this relationship keeps the same no matter how much STR you tack on.

Sorry for the math, but wanted to make a point so everyone would understand. The 4STR extra from firestorm would actually help the DW/H2H crowd more then it would the 2H crowd, just like the enspells. So the real debate is does the benefit of 4STR (+1 fSTR and some WSC) outweight the benefit of higher total enspell damage? That really is a hard one but I'd say in most case's yes (especially on birds).
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#41 Sep 22 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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Lyltia although I agree with you on the fact that generalisations are never really a good thing and that saying that DDs should -always- be subbing DD subs is slightly close minded, I do also actually agree to a large extent with the view that
Quote:

DRG DRK and WAR should all be /SAM for lolibri anyways; and SAM should be /WAR or /DRG regardless.


I myself have both DRG and SAM levelled and I can honestly say that for merit parties there has NEVER been a time when I have regretted coming /SAM for DRG and /WAR or /DRG for SAM. I have however regretted being /NIN on SAM, the difference in DD capability is pretty dramatic and honestly the gain in survival from /NIN is really not that impressive. If you're talking about Colibri /NIN is gimped anyway because Pecking Flurry will take out all your shadows whereas Third Eye eats it whole. The idea when meriting is to maximise efficiency and therefore exp per hour, and there will almost never be a situation where a 2h job will be more efficient subbing NIN than SAM/DRG/WAR depending on job. If you have a party of idiot WARs in seriously pathetic gear, even then you would be better off making them sub SAM, you would kill significantly faster and furthermore there is actually less room for error. It takes a lot more effort for players to constantly reapply Utsusemi than it does for them to mash their Third Eye macro every 30 seconds.

The only time I can really think of when any 2h job should be subbing NIN is if you have one maxed out fully merited DRG/SAM/DRK/WAR and the rest of the party is below par. In that situation the maxed out player in question could perhaps sub NIN since he will be tanking almost full time.

Honestly though, I know I have just said that blanket statements and generalisations are stupid, but to be honest nonetheless, 95% of the time a 2 handed job will be better off with a DD sub than /NIN.
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#42 Sep 22 2009 at 8:27 AM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
4th: Weather/day offers accuracy to spells. Firestorm offers accuracy to enfire. It'll increase damage potential, sure, but the real reason for the appropriate weather on en-spells is the accuracy.


For the last time, produce proof on this; real, solid, irrefutable proof, or drop it for good.


I can, at the same time, make this exact statement toward you. Produce real, solid, irrefutable proof against this theory, or drop it for good. I'll agree that until proof is posted in favor of this, then I can't shove it down someone's throat as "fact", but at the same time, until proof is posted in contrast of it, you also cannot shove it down anyone's throat as fallacy.

Although eyeballing doesn't prove a single thing, I myself notice considerably more resists to debuffs that are weak to the given day/weather. At the same time, I notice considerably less resists and more full effects for debuffs OF the given day/weather.

Quote:

You're absolutely correct; however, you're not looking at the entire equation, therefore this statement is as valid as my bus pass. You're talking about YGK, but I believe I've stated several times that if there's more than one 2H DD in a party, you forgo Enspellgas altogether in favour of Phalanxga, and, as stated above, a party of 1H/DW DDs with Enspellga will more than make up for that STR+4.


You're making these strange insinuations about how I handle a meripo and they're all very wrong.

1: I pretty much refuse to meripo with 2 handed melees anymore. Not that I dislike them, because I personally even enjoy playing them myself. It's simply that I rather dislike spending extra time getting the same exp that I could get otherwise. It's my own prerogative that no one should really have to comment about.

2: Phalanx is on all my melees all the time. It isn't sacrificed for anything else. If your melees are good enough, 1 stoneskin cast will generally last quite some time. As such, I keep firestorm, enfire, and phalanx up constantly. Stoneskin is refreshed when my sublimation kills it. At 4 HP/tick, that's just about every 4 minutes *works out perfectly, huh?*.


You're also trying to pervert others' words by making statements such as "you're saying that melee DDs should always use offensive subjobs." Allow me to make a couple slightly more correct general statements:

1: For 1 handed melees, /NIN has somewhat become the staple subjob for nearly everything. Other subjobs are situationally useful, but not as often.

2: For 2 handed melees, /SAM has become the staple subjob. Other subjobs are useful under certain situations, though it's rare.

Obviously a NIN and SAM can't sub itself, so there's a bit more freedom.

No one is claiming that any of these subjobs are end-all for every situation. The situation at hand, however, is meripo. If you're a 2 handed melee DD in a meripo party that isn't centered around DRG healing, then you should be /SAM or /DRG or /WAR unless your healers can't handle it. Since we're in the SCH forum, we're assuming that the healer is going to be a SCH. SCH can hnandle it.
#43 Sep 22 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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Banggugyangu wrote:

1: I pretty much refuse to meripo with 2 handed melees anymore. Not that I dislike them, because I personally even enjoy playing them myself. It's simply that I rather dislike spending extra time getting the same exp that I could get otherwise. It's my own prerogative that no one should really have to comment about.


This made no sense.

Otherwise i agree with the rest of your post.
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#44 Sep 22 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
4th: Weather/day offers accuracy to spells. Firestorm offers accuracy to enfire. It'll increase damage potential, sure, but the real reason for the appropriate weather on en-spells is the accuracy
There's no accuracy buff to enspells with weather. There is however, a damage increase thanks to the normal 10% modifier you get with other spells. Of course, this is usually floored to 1 unless you can hit 20+ with your enspell, but the extra damage does make a difference when you consider that there's 4+ melee's using it.

Mind you, Enspells are the bane of dancers, so I avoid casting them when there's one in the team. It overwrites their Samba ability including Haste Samba which is doing far more for the party, imo, than your enspells will. On the upside, it 'frees up' an Accession strategem to use for other things... like my personal favourite, AoE Firestorm (+7 STR is lovely) with a side order of Thunderstorm for the THF if requested. I've noticed some very big numbers coming out of their weaponskills after using Firestorm so it's hard not to smile when they thank me for it.
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#45Banggugyangu, Posted: Sep 22 2009 at 12:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) that was a typo, I meant to say 1 handed.
#46 Sep 22 2009 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I can, at the same time, make this exact statement toward you. Produce real, solid, irrefutable proof against this theory, or drop it for good. I'll agree that until proof is posted in favor of this, then I can't shove it down someone's throat as "fact", but at the same time, until proof is posted in contrast of it, you also cannot shove it down anyone's throat as fallacy.


Actually, no you can't. Allow me to quote myself:

Quote:
For the last time, produce proof on this; real, solid, irrefutable proof, or drop it for good.


Quote:
I'll just repeat, in case you missed it the first few times: Day/Weather effects have, to my knowledge, never been conclusively proven to add accuracy to spells/effects of their respective elements.


And this is what you said:

Quote:
4th: Weather/day offers accuracy to spells. Firestorm offers accuracy to enfire. It'll increase damage potential, sure, but the real reason for the appropriate weather on en-spells is the accuracy.


All I said is that there is no proof that Day/Weather affects accuracy; logic dictates that there's no proof against it either, else I would use that as proof against your above statement. My only problem was with you claiming that there was proof for it, which you made quite clear in the bolded portions of your quote, when there is none.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the final nail in the coffin of your credibility on these forums. Please stop posting.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#47Banggugyangu, Posted: Sep 22 2009 at 2:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you had read more thoroughly, I conceded my statement to a hypothetical status. You, in your post, had tried to use the same form of statement as an argument against using enfire.
#48 Sep 22 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you had read more thoroughly, I conceded my statement to a hypothetical status. You, in your post, had tried to use the same form of statement as an argument against using enfire.

If the lack of proof supporting that hypothesis restricts it from being used as an argument for a point, then the lack of proof disproving the same hypothesis restricts it from being used as an argument against the same point.

Here's a tip. Saying something then abiding by the opposite is the definition of hypocrisy.


No, no, no. This is getting laughable. Here's the simple version:

-You claim day/weather affects accuracy.

-I say there's no proof that I'm aware of, please provide some or I'll be forced to call *********

-You retreat from your earlier statement and make claims that at some point I claimed there was proof that day/weather did not affect accuracy; if you can find where I said this, feel free to quote it. Here's a tip: you won't.

-You attempt to twist the argument in an effort to divert attention from the fact that most of what you spout on these forums is complete, self-serving *********

This is getting ridiculous. If you'd just admit that, hey, you were wrong, my bad, moving on, then the rest of us could too, and there'd be nothing more said on the matter. Instead, you can't stand the fact that you made false claims about something and got called out on it, so you attempt to drag everyone down with you so you're not alone on the wrong side of things.

There's a reason the Sub-Default filter hides 90% of your posts, y'know.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#49 Sep 23 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
Jack of All Trades
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29,628 posts
Assuming full Stormsurge, I don't see any real problem with Firestorm + Enblizzardga.

Fire weather means a roughly 33% chance for per-hit Enblizzard damage to go down by two points. That's roughly .66 damage per non-WS hit in exchange for raising fSTR by 1.75 points (right? I'm no real expert on melee formula) and 3-4 attack. Idk, but it sounds like a good tradeoff to me.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2009 6:20pm by Fynlar
#50 Sep 23 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
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372 posts
Fynlar wrote:
Assuming full Stormsurge, I don't see any real problem with Firestorm + Enblizzardga.

Other than the oddity (and yet, surprise) of that actually working, your DD would prolly get more out of +3 STR/DEX (from Voidstorm) than +5 STR (from Firestorm); but hey, if your DD would get more out of Firestorms bonuses than Voidstorm bonuses, then don't let me stop you.
Although, I do kinda admit the enblizzardga while firestorm is up would be rather unexpected, and rather amusing in some sense.

Edit: found a better word than the one I used before.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2009 10:35pm by Vestrivan
____________________________
The wise warrior will fight until he can no longer win; while the foolish warrior will never stop fighting.

MouserRDM wrote:

People think Dark Knights are the emo-boys of FFXI.

They ain't got nothin' on us Blue Mages. We kill monsters, eat their souls, and we don't even use barbecue sauce. And we're still hungry.

We're bastards.
#51 Sep 24 2009 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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824 posts
Yeah, upon further reflection I'm more inclined to agree with the above points, but i'd also say that it's probably situational and a close shave regardless. Since Voidstorm raises all base attributes, it's offering a lot of small increases across the board for different jobs, which would be very difficult to quantify objectively, while Firestorm is a substantial boost for anyone beating on the target. Keep in mind that you're excluding heavy DD jobs such as SAM DRK DRG from this, as you wouldn't be bothering with Enspells if they were present. THF especially comes to mind, assuming they're making use of SA/TA; to be honest I'm not really sure if the optimal way to play THF in a merit party includes heavy use of those abilities. I should really level a melee job..

I suppose part of me just can't help but recoil at using opposing storm/enspells, but I would be very interested at seeing some comprehensive testing on the subject. Then again, if one is going to spend hours parsing, there's probably a lot of more interesting things to research than this, so I'll content myself with wild speculation. =P
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
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