Stormsurge + voidstormFollow

level 1 is confirmed as +1 all stats... +5 for fully merited?

Seems to make everything else useless unless the target can actually use the weather effect itself

aurorastorm chr+ then I assume?

just tested aurorastorm. gives +3 chr

it's not like you have to choose which storm. you get them all at the same time anyways.
and if voidstorm is +5 to all it would be really stupid if the others weren't +15 to a single.

We already know that the 7 normal ones are +7 max. I doubt SE is going to add partial attributes per merit.

The point of my post was more toward those who don't know, rather than saying "this is what it does." I was saying "This is the better of the 2."

There are plenty of BRDs who think mambo and madrigal are the way to go, and CORs who think SCH roll is useless... If you're a melee, your choice should be STR+5 and DEX+5 over STR+7 or DEX+7.

Well, lame. Just got Stormsurge level 3, and voidstorm is still at +2

First time I've heard this...

Wait, what? Am I missing something here? I thought that SCH's roll was deemed pretty useless.

It would have to be around CMP+85 or something ridiculous to even compare to a 3MP/Tick Evokers.
I've had it with me before as SCH and I honestly noticed nothing. I'd rather have Wizards, Warlocks, Evokers, or even Healers with me to be honest.

If level 1 is +1
level 2 is +2
level 3 is +2

Then most likely level 4 will be +2 and level 5 will be +3.

OR! It's a glitch (ihopeihopeihopeihope)

Scholars roll is pretty godly.


And yes, Voidstorm for melees when fully merited is pretty much going to be the weather to cast...

Not if you're a scholar, which already has conserve mp and get the job bonus...

If I meripo as WHM and no SCH in the PT, I'd prefer healer's/evoker's honestly. That hMP w/ a WHM in PT will be better than the conserve MP would be. But when a SCH main is in the PT... SCH's roll is close to broken.

Don't forget also that Penury/Parsimony can stack with CMP.

Nothing beats throwing up a RR3 on WHM for only 50 MP.

How on earth can you accomplish that?

Thunder 4 costs 171 MP normally, Parsimony can halve it, and CMP can halve it again. It seems the lowest you could get it to in this fashion is a 43 MP cost. What else are you doing to get it lower?

The above post is why most people overestimate CMP. Eyeballing is a very bad way of gauging this trait.

Going by COR's history of traits (SAM&MNK rolls in particular), the max CMP could possible give would be +50 when rolling an 11 with a SCH in party. This is the equivalent of 14% savings on the dot. This isn't better than the low-end Evokers (2mp/Tick) unless you chain nuke out of your MP pool (literally), rest, and do it all over again.
And this is just the comparison of the best CMP SCH's roll can give, versus the low-end evokers. High end evokers (4-5) would absolutely crush it, even when chain-nuking.

I'm also pretty sure that Healers would beat SCH's roll toe-by-toe if you're chain nuking. Not that it matters, if you're chain-nuking you want wizards instead; but bear with me <_<

Some basic calculations got me that blowing a 740MP pool with 50% CMP would give 104. Resting that back with +29hMP from gear, +0 from food, and +12 from Healers (No WHM 11-roll) took me 10 ticks; or 120MP from Healers without a WHM. This isn't taking into consideration if you're getting MP elsewhere, which might tip the balance towards SCH's roll simply because it has more MP to burn and healers has less to heal.

So, Evokers is pretty much better almost always, and Healers is better if chain-nuking.
Obviously you can pair 2 rolls if MP is all you want, so evokers is in by default. Now the question is Scholar's or Healer's?

Healers is better if you're going to blow out your MP just by math, but Scholar is better if you're going to be slowly burning your MP so that outside refresh can make an impact.
This makes it ideal for situations where you're not resting due to refresh covering some of the MP recovery.

So yes, I guess Evokers+Scholars would be slightly better for MP over Evokers+Healers without a WHM. With a WHM, Evokers+Healers is the way to go.

I'm not a SCH, but speaking as a COR... I've not seen any COR with half a brain say that Scholar's Roll is useless. It's generally a pretty popular option.

Evoker's is the king of the mage rolls. Depending on your setup Scholar's, Healer's, or Warlock's competes for the 2nd spot for most parties with any mage combination of WHM SCH RDM SMN.

If mages aren't resting, Healer's is useless. This often comes into play with a RDM main heal, or even a WHM with multiple refreshers.

Think of a SCH/WHM with a BRD and COR in the party... that SCH won't be sitting very much. Most COR would pick Scholar's there for the job bonus and the fact that Healer's Roll (and an un-enhanced by job bonus Healer's at that) wouldn't be getting much use.

Scholar's is often used with a RDM main heal as well. In that party, there's often little resting because you have at least 2 refreshes (COR and RDM) and Convert - and if you have a BRD COR RDM backline forget about that RDM ever needing to sit. Maybe you have a DNC in your party too, to lessen the MP burden on your main healer. Or a particularly good tank who reduces the burden on the mages.

So if mages aren't resting a lot, it usually comes down to Warlock's vs. Scholar's as the 2nd mage roll. From 46-63 (COR has Warlock's but not Scholar's), Warlock's is quite useful. That level range includes popular early ToAU level sync camps, so it's fairly common. Post-64, Scholar's generally wins out. You'd only use Warlock's post-64 if both (a) mages weren't resting much making Healer's not too useful AND (b) you had a need for additional Magic Accuracy (e.g. enfeebles getting resisted regularly).

So yeah, general rule of thumb for a 64+ COR is that depending on your party, either Scholar's or Healer's is the most frequently used "second roll" on the mages to pair with Evoker's.

Edited, Dec 11th 2008 5:19pm by Anza

as a DD, I can say with pretty good certainty that if voidstorm is +3, melees are gonna want firestorm.

for those of you who don't know how str/dex work(mage mains who've never leveld a melee job, and I mean this politely, not trying to sound rude)
For 1h weapons: 2str:1atk, so 3str:1.5 attack, 2 if the melee has str as an odd number, the same 2:1 applies to dex:acc
This means: Dagger, Sword, Katana, Axe, Club, and includes h2h, and iirc, 2str:1ranged atk as well, though r.acc is decided by AGI, not dex, also using the 2:1 ratio
for 2h weapons: 4str:3atk, so 3str:2.25atk, 3atk if the melee has str as an odd number, again, the same ratio works for dex, 4dex:3acc
This Means: Great Axe, Great katana, Great sword, Scythe, Polearms, Staves

good melees, save a few jobs, gear with this order of priority: Haste > Acc > Atk > Str > Dex, ad usually macro in acc or str for their ws(again, depending on the job)

It may vary from melee to melee, but in general, you'll probably get more bang for your buck with firestorm, since str+3 dex+3 is easy to get on a piece of gear, but str+7 or dex+7 are not.

Being THF75, I would definitely choose STR+7 over DEX+7 as a fulltime buff. If you wanted to cast thunderstorm right as I SA'd each time.. so be it, but SA's a thing that happens once every 60 seconds... melee hits happen about once-twice every second... STR+7 is more useful all around.. especially since it still helps SA anyway.

I'm not saying THFs should be all STR... but as a full-time buff of either STR+7 or DEX+7... STR+7 for sure.


*edit* which brings up my point again... a lot of mages don't understand exactly what would be best for the melee's that they're casting on. Heck... a lot of the melee's they would be casting on don't even understand it...

Edited, Dec 12th 2008 11:23am by Banggugyangu

Not sure if its been verified elsewhere, but i can verify +3 to all stats at 5/5.

Finally done with sch merits, now on to bst merits that i've been planning to do (which i'm more excited about than sch merits)

only rangers i like get firestorm, sorry but the rest get what i give them. And if any of them are particularly annoying, they get thunderstorm.