RDM update stuffFollow

Damage isn't the point of those swords, it's being able to remove offensive/defensive buffs (and apply them to yourself), especially vs. targets that are resistant/immune to Dispel (Sagasinger), or being able to directly cripple the target's TP gain through your primary damage source (whatever that thing's called). The latter especially makes anyone who manages to get one useful on the frontlines, no matter the target. I can definitely think of a number of situations where I'd use one or the other over Almace.

Oh yeah and the resistance to Terror on Sagasinger is pretty badass, if i'm soloing/tanking something that uses Terror, I'd definitely use it.

Edited, Oct 13th 2011 2:28am by LyltiaofLakshmi

It would have to be more powerful then Vorpal Blade to contend without the extra hit from Dual Weild if you're trying to intend it for us on a non Melee subjob, Vol. The issue there is that it's already a hit behind Vopral Blade without the crit chance.

DB does have the 30% MND Modifier to their advantage, but the lower Strength Mod and the loss of hit really hurt it.

Either way, if you're going sub mage it would likely be better as you'll have the advantage of Magical Attack Bonus (more from /blm) for the WS, and the ease of gear swapping for it.

In the end I still believe we should have access to EX weaponskills. It's a dated balance factor that is likely no logner valid in today's game.



@Lyltia if the strenght of the resist Terror is strong enough, I'd wear it even if I wasn't tanking a Terror using mob. Terror is just as dangerous for mages as it is for melee if the range is wide enough. Slap it onto idle gear or take the hit in potency just to make sure you're at the ready.

Still. You cant sacrafice a ton of damage just to have a utility. And Sagasinger if I remember correctly does not overwrite enspells so you'd have to sack that to use it's effect, though you could manually deactivate that if that was the case.

Either way, the utility at the sacrafice of such a large margin of damage isn't exactly a happy medium. I would still like to see a more global improvement on Sword Weaponskills.

I was once on the boat of trying to make a non-damage reason to let RDM melee, but SE made it pretty clear on the official boards that RDM melee is for damage assistance, and that abilities they'll receive to aid it will assist RDM to that end. So if we're looking for ways to make our Melee a utility, we're going to have to look at utility swords themselves. Thankfully, we have a good number of them now to choose form, albiet at the sacrifice of enspells. (But most higher end mobs resist enspells to hell anyways so I guess that's not a big issue.)

LOL the same could be said about melee, healing, nuking, and pretty much everything RDM does in general. Love how default to go play X job. The same thing people have been telling RDM's who wished to melee to do for years.

*checks* Why did I think DB had a 20% str mod? Anyways, you're correct on the stats. The issue here is you're not thinking of this as a complete package.

We're losing not one hit under vorpal, but two by being one hit under vorpal and then taking out the offhand hit when we swap out of a dual wielding subjob.

Vorpal Blade as it is isn't respectable as a damaging WS, it's just what Sword Has that fills the bill. You would have to make Death Blossom a natural 4 hit and retain its modifiers for it where it was when you had it /nin or /dnc. And by then, it would pass up Vorpal blade.

And of course, that doesn't change the fact that our Magical WSes would be more convenient of a use considering we're already tight in the gear department. A magical WS that would deal better-than-vorpal-blade damage and modified by our nuking gear allows us to ditch a fully dedicated WS set and use most of our nukeset instead.

But sadly all the good ones on sword are EX anyways, so the first change would have to come from that department. Unless you want to make DB the first ever multi-hit magical WS that could Double Attack and crit I'd be down for something like that though I doubt the mechanics can be done that way.

Ok going to correct a few misconceptions about various WS's first and foremost.

One is that Vorpal is indeed a "top of the line" WS, it's all in how you play with the numbers. Its four hits 1.0 fTP with 30% STR mod. The biggest mistake I see with people gearing for these things is they go straight for the WSC and completely ignore attack, and it cripples them. I've pumped out ridiculous vorpals on my WAR just to prove people wrong about this. Naitive access to Vorpal / Sand Blade would instantly fix the WS issue, that or make DB a 1.5 fTP WS with a chance at criting. Although honestly I'd go with the vorpal route, easier and less places for SE to screw up. For mage subjobs situations you have S.Blade, it doesn't care about your main hand weapon nor your off hand weapon.

Next is the issue behind CDC. CDC is an amazing WS, I destroy VWNM's with it and have opened quite a few eyeballs doing so. It takes some playing with but we can get pretty nice damage both inside and outside of abyssea. My only beef is that every other weapon absolutely sucks in comparison. There are some very potent combos you can put together with the Magian weapons, but your limited because without CDC you have absolutely no good sword WS. With us not being on the magian daggers it further limits your selection for using Evis.

Now onto how to get good damage out of your WS's. First and foremost is assuming you have acc under control, you need attack and then more attack. Learn to get good at guesstimating how much defense the targets have and how much attack you need to reach 1.5 ratio, maybe even 2.0 ratio. Same with accuracy, learn to feel when your hitting over 80~85%. These are things your going to learn through lots of self parsing, no other way about it. Now assuming you can get a decent attack, pile on DEX if it's CDC, otherwise STR and more STR. STR counts twice, once for fSTR and again for WSC. fSTR is the equivalent of 25~30% STR WSC, so for Vorpal / DB any STR pieces you use get to count twice. fSTR caps rather high and the chances of most RDM's ever seeing it outside of abyssea are rather low.

A note about accuracy, accuracy is extremely easy to fix now. It used to be our bane back when we were 75, but with the way skill has scales vs monster evasion you will more then likely be capped or near capped with minimal effort. If it's a situation where your missing too much, then switch to Pizza or even Sushi (THF NM's). It's better to wear haste gear and use Pizza / Sushi then to try to use acc gear and eat meat. We don't get enough acc gear and the amount of acc you get from Pizza / Sushi is so great that you'd have to switch out tons of gear to make up for it.

And Hyrist, DB is 30% STR 50% MND three hit 1.15 ftp WS. Meaning under DW your looking at 4.15 worth of fTP before DA / Temper are counted in. Once you get attack up there then focus on STR / MND items, but remember you get more from STR then MND until fSTR cap (fSTR WSC and attack together). Before CDC I had a pretty good DB built and was able to churn out some impressive numbers, although it never quite lived up to what I expected from it.

Finally, RDM isn't about pure damage, if I wanted to do pure damage then I'd come on my WAR, SAM, DRK or BLU. RDM is about combining support with damage dealing. Refresh II the WHM, land Dia III / Slow II / Para II (if it sticks) on the NM and have a Cure IV <stal> macro handy for spamming Cure IV to help the WHM out. I actually find myself healing the WHM and BRD more often then not. (PLD PLD RDM WHM BRD + Other is the usual tank PT). Carry around three tools at least, one for lowering earth resist, one for lowering ice resist and the last for lowering thunder resist. One of my favorite tactics now is to listen on vent for when our two PLD's are coordinating the CDC -> CDC light SC's. If I start the Thunder IV about a second after the first guy goes I can get a very nice MB. If I'm in mid cast then I'll have to resort to the Insta Cast JA for landing it. Next favorite tactic is to toss Suiton (thunder down) onto the NM then Instant cast Thunder IV followed by another Thunder IV, both will land within the 15s time frame for nice damage. My only wish was that it was on a lower timer, 10min is too long. Along with doing this I'm spamming CDC whenever possible. Skin + Phalanx + natural MDB means I actually live longer then our DD's with only our two PLD's being harder to kill. This has been rather evident while killing the add's spawned by the new VWNMs.

Saevell what's your current TP/WS build? (with the interest being more in the latter as I believe I've seen your TP build before)

Edited, Oct 13th 2011 12:04pm by Hyrist

Ok.

Everything you've said, I've replied to already in previous posts, or is an insult I don't care to get baited to reply to. The difference between Alma and I is I do know when to stop. You wish to be completely immovable in your beliefs, that's your prerogative.

I'd like to believe that eventually you'll catch up to the current meta of the game soon. However, if it's taken you this long to catch up to issues that's been in existence since sky, and still have a ToAU "must get into 6 man party" mentality, I hold little hope.



Edited, Oct 13th 2011 5:32pm by Hyrist

why do you people always put it back to Parties? Parties are irrelevant, groups of people for endgame is relevant, and RDM is not effective in any role in current endgame. (except for nuking).

Edited, Oct 13th 2011 7:04pm by rdmcandie

I don't even play.

hahahhaha w/e you say champ, a month ago you were calling me a wagon jumper because I leveled DNC BLM WHM BRD. You know why I leveled these jobs...because every one of them is more useful in the game to my friends...ie. the people I played with on a daily basis. The job I didn't use my lvl 90 RDM

You know why it didn't get used?

Because my BLM/WHM healed as well as it and nuked better than it.
Because my WHM/SCH healed better and buffed better.
Because my DNC/NIN melee'd better and tanked better.
Because my BRD/WHM healed and supported better.

During RoZ I had RDM for these things, During CoP i had RDM for these things, During ToAU i had RDM for these things, during WoTG I had RDM for these things.

And in 1 level you can add COR/RDM, BLU/RDM, SMN/RDM to jobs that are more useful. It isn't that RDM does not have the tools, it is that SE is imposing limitations to healing, enfeebling, and enhancing magics as far as RDM is concerned.

And unless this issue is fixed properly (ie. not new fluff added on to a foundation that is not sound. Would you rather a foundation of cement? or of sand) I won't play RDM anymore because it is inefficient for anything, and many jobs /RDM are way more useful to a group, and offer just as much if not more than Rdm does.

You need to get out of your RDM is useful mindset, because it is not, unfortunately, but it isn't, and it is not because we do not have the tools, it is because our tools are limited for no real reason. This includes healing, enfeebling, enhancing, and your precious Melee.

I am all for better melee less time casting, but not at the cost of our utility or job identity and currently our job identity is nothing(not even jack of all trades), and our utility is diminishing every update and the next will leave us with Refresh II and Dia III.

But ya everything is kosher in RDM land, just toss us more sh*t on a foundation that isn't stable. 100 more enfeebles please even though you keep making mobs immune to enfeebles. 50 new self buffs please, even though we can not use them to buff our allies.

If you honestly think our issue is lack of abilities tell me so I can stop replying to you.

Edited, Oct 13th 2011 11:29pm by rdmcandie

Here's where you majorly err. The job's identity is: 1 part melee, 1 part white magic, 1 part black magic. That's it.

If there was any element or change that jeopardized our job's identity, it was when we went from "melee, white magic, black magic" to "support/mezz" job. If you want it put another way, what should be tertiary aspects of a job were turned into the primary aspects of RDM. And that burden is one we haven't been able to shake off between the blind naysayers that liked their easy invites and Tanaka and Matsui keeping their heads in the sand (and their HNM soloing butthurt that followed). I might also add Yoshida and Mr. I-made-CoP to the list, as they were largely responsible for the RDM empyrean armor and the post-75 job progression (AKA our being kept off Sang Blade and the magian daggers).

That's not so much a game mechanic but rather the foundation behind the whole game, as your complaint is entirely rooted on the way subjobs work.

Depends on where you look and how the class design handles it. It'd be one thing if the aspects of RDM could play nice with each other within the same context instead of what eventually crammed it into a niche because it wasn't useful in any other way to a group.

No the jobs identity was the fact that it could move into various roles. It at one point was a competant healer, nuker, melee, tank, buff/debuff (support) job.

Now it is a nuker and melee (melee is more effective on lower tier content and Nuking is more effective on higher tier content).

It's support side is heavily lacking due to Enfeebles being either outright resisted or having no effect (do to the nature of mobs attacks/abilities), and our enhancing magic recent additions being self target only. The issue will only compound when /RDM gives access to haste. (due to performance enhancements by jobs I already listed previously).

It's healing side is lacking in comparison to both SCH and WHM, and will soon be on par with anything /RDM, currently it is very slightly ahead of /WHM healing jobs due to convert. SCH has rapture, and the upcoming regen adjustments, an WHM has everything.

It's tanking ability was nerfed hard a long time ago and more or less the nail in the coffin was a recent trait that reduced the enmity gainedon cures (effectively destroying "cure cheat" enmity capping).

RDM's niche was (and should still be) the fact that it could seamlessly transition from healer to nuker, to melee, to support with gear swaps (and neutral subjob selections such as /DNC, /NIN or /SCH) no other class in the game offers the kind of versatility RDM has. SCH is limited to Arts, BLU is limited to spell sets, SMN is limited to -perp cost (and lengthy ability timers), PUP is limited to Auto set up (which requires reactivation if a change is needed) DRG is limited by subjob, DNC is limited in TP use. RDM is the only "hybrid" that can seamlessly change roles with simple gear swaps.

The issue is that Our current roles have more or less been limited to melee or nuking, healing is pretty weak in content that matters, our support options are virtually nonexistent in the current game, and as stated earlier, tanking has long since expired.

Not to mention RDM is pretty subjob dependent in order to be more efficient in certain roles.

BLM, WHM, SCH are all subjobs for use in a more mage roll, with each being used for a specific reason, to benefit us more in a specific art we want to focus on. WHM for overall best healing role options, BLM for overall best utility options, and SCH for a balance of each with limitations.

WAR, BLU, DNC are all subjobs we use in a more melee offensive category with an option to provide additional support (DNC)

NIN I keep this separate as it is kind of a neutral sub, it has great potential offensively in a melee role, and it has the capacity for a more reserved caster role when holding NM's or soloing etc.

Everything about RDM is borrowed from other jobs, and we pick and choose a plethora of jobs to use to get additional benefits from. RDM is not cut and dry like THF/NIN, or WAR/SAM, or SAM/WAR, or the like. RDM has reason to sub almost every job in the game in some capacity from (ex. /COR in old meripo for COR roll if running 2x BRD, (or even BRD COR))

RDM is all about taking from other jobs. It is funny you are pleased with Temper, which is a direct rip off from WAR's native DA trait. Yet are opposing the fact that RDM should be on the same level elsewhere. Such as getting cure V (or my preferred method of adjusting caps on C1-C4). Allowing all our buffs to be accessioned. Other jobs are pulling ahead of is in all departments, some are moving in leaps and bounds.

I promise you if SE does not fix RDM enhancing, enfeebling and healing before the next cap increase, RDM will not be asked for anything with BRD SMN COR offering everything a RDM can, and then some. It doesn't need new fluff, it needs its mechanics to be fixed. The limits imposed on us because of Soloing, and bad mob design by SE (Colibri for the most part) have vastly limited us, and until the mechanics are fixed you can apply all the bandaids you want, and the problem will not go away.


Edited, Oct 15th 2011 6:01pm by rdmcandie

So? We have to maintain haste, refresh, dia. All things that come with passive traits (exception being haste to an extent but DW fills the same role, refresh has auto refresh, dia has ATK boost tiers.)

Temper should be an AoEable buff (via /SCH) as all our self buffs should be. However I do not think it should be castable on others directly. There is no reason for it to be limited to RDM alone. At all.



Well I don't think my idea is so much a buff, rather a fix on some things SE has messed up (some have been compounding for years). Personally I think RDM has all the tools to efficient in many roles. The biggest issue is they are locked out (buffing) or they are severely limited (enfeebles) or they are severely misrepresented (healing, specifically regarding the ever lasting issue of healing magic having no real effect at all on heals.)

Just to comment more on the healing cap change. What this would do is allow /WHM and /RDM with cure 4 to heal at current levels. Increasing the healing cap of the spells for jobs with C1-C4 will allow these jobs to achieve a higher cap through MND and Healing magic skill (the only skill that has no real effect on the spells it is associated with). This is a direct buff to RDM SCH WHM (and to an extent PLD). It allows RDM and SCH to have a native big heal, it also provides WHM with a 3rd big heal, at the cost of a large increase in enmity gained through its use.

Long story short, it impacts all healing main jobs in a positive way, and has no impact on jobs who sub them for the cures.

Any other solution to me is folly. C5 i not needed (it is just the easiest fix). We don't need a new cure or new healing gimmick.

It is not only RDM who is under the gun, and if people figure out how to use to /RDM jobs in cohesion (ie. BRD/RDM COR/RDM SMN/RDM BLU/RDM) all with a cure 4 (or better) even WHM might have a fight on its hands.

Giving all jobs access to refresh, convert, haste, cure IV is a huge change, it almost allows any job to fill in as a support healer, and if you have enough support healing, you don't need any main healing. Especially when the potential support healing bring the crazy as buffs they have, and 3/4 i listed all have a natural refresh to stack with /RDM refresh.

Again I hate to quit harping the point, but the issue is the mechanics in the game, not the tools RDM has. SE needs to fix how self buffs react with Accession (for all jobs with relevant buffs), they need to fix enfeebles so RDM can actually have a form of consistent mitigation, and they need to fix healing, healing is probably the most important on that list, followed by enhancing.

To avoid going into that topic again, I will only say that RDM is overdue for being dragged into the new century of hybrid design. I'll leave it at that.

I'd first suggest that the silly "Dia and Bio overwrite each other" thing be done away with. Then I'd adjust Bio's attack down to make it more noticeable (and to help it count as a mitigation tool). I'd buff Blind's Acc down effect and notably increase its land rate. If allowed to, I'd even make it a percentage based on enfeebling skill and with the same land rate as Dia.

Now, let's look at what are standard non-absolute debuffs:

01) Attack Down - Bio
02) Defense Down - Dia
03) Accuracy Down - Blind
04) Cast Time Increases - Addle
05) Action Time Increases - Slow
06) Critical Hit vulnerability -
07) Magic Attack Down -
08) Magic Defense Down -
09) Magic Accuracy Down - Addle
10) Resistance Down - Enspell II's
11) Movement Speed Down - Gravity
12) Evasion Down - Gravity
13) Increase Damage Taken -
14) Attribute(s) Down -
15) Resource Gain Down OR Destruction of Resource -

I made the above based off what I've seen in FFXI as well as WoW, Lineage II, RO and CoH. Listing off the top of my head only the spells that are native to our job, RDM is technically at 8/15 using this list. Even then, 1 and 2 are exclusive from one another as of right now. 12 wouldn't really count given Gravity's short duration and long recast timer, and 10 is borderline laughable based on how Enspell II's interact with our melee model. So we're actually 5/15 going by the list. We could take a crack at trying to fill the list later, though.

That being said, I was getting at the fact that the Final Fantasy debuffs are mostly absolutes. There's very little in terms of hindrance and mitigation. This is not helped by the fact that for years most strategies have revolved around avoiding as much damage as possible.

Wait, is this the same RCD that was telling me RDM was fine close to two years ago when I was saying RDM was founded on faulty mechanics? Color me surprised. >.>

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 6:23pm by Ruisu

Edited, Oct 16th 2011 10:33pm by Ruisu

Edited, Oct 17th 2011 9:06am by Ruisu

I have left rdm sitting in the dust for about a year now, only leveling it when bored.

I was going to just quit it, but after playing with Tunga on my thief and whm, I'm thinking Rdm is going to be the better choice to do Tunga for KI. Earth resist set + resist petrify stacking(not really counting on that)+ tunga low hp and rdm has marginally better ki proc than thf made the decision to lug rdm up to 95.

When done, I'll drop it again until some 1% situation where rdm will be the better choice.

My opinion is that I really didn't like to play rdm in pre-abyssea endgame, but its good to see it making a comeback in VW; hatred of buff cycles/pink mage + removing tanking + accessionless buffs + nothing new or special = the job I first fell in love with and hit 75 is like an old discarded toy; broken and withered away from age, mistreatment, and malcontent.

I applaud career Rdms and know that some smallish % of rdms make their job worthwhile and shine, but they are pretty few and far between and its just not me to make the crappy rdm job my main. You either love rdm and have fun playing it with friends regardless of SE, or you quit it. The job certainly isn't optimal or even uniquely special at this point in the game.

I also dislike these long-winded posts about what does or doesn't need to happen because SE usually does some ass-backward completely random thing that either does or does not work out and its pointless to stress it. Its like saying the pawn in chess should move like a rook; well, we don't make the rules. Just play the game let your pawn checkmate the king or sacrifice it for your queen.

It's an incomplete list there, honestly. And if I wasn't under a migraine at this moment I'd probably rewrite the list.

Things like Magical Evasion Down (Death Blossom) enemy critical hit rate, enemy TP bonus (or TP penalty), Regeneration prevention (Disease) can also be included. Though, some of these are included in other jobs or should be the realm of other jobs (Stat negatives are done between BLM and DRK with a good number of them subbed.)

But yes, a full enfeeble list both defensively and offensively would be really appreciated on RDM. Fix the ones we have, but flush out some more so that even if the boss is immune to some of them, (Like those aligned to a particular element, like Ice or Fire) we still got a wide list of debuffs that ARE still effective.


Hybrid play kind of identifies me as a player: I've always worked to function magic and physical works. (And Yes, I'm leveling Blu on my spare time. Spell hunting is time consuming.) It's reflective in most if not all my gameplay from single-player to multiplayer. I love being a generalist. And it's not hero complex either. I rather hate the spotlight. I just like being helpful in all aspects, having a toolset wide enough to work in multiple fields. (I play a Soldier in Borderlands, all my FF characters that are flexible typically get turned into hybrids, etc.)

Perhaps it stems from the fact that I don't like being caught unprepared or in a situation where I absolutely have to shoulder the responsibility onto someone else. But whatever the case, I can never seem to be content playing a job that lacks tools to be flexible and self sufficient. Red Mage is ALL about being self-sufficient. It just needs to be to a degree that scales better for groups than it does for us. Debuffs do that, granted, so do buffs, but it has a much more limited scale. (Max 6 people compared to max 18 people.)

Sure we can control it. We'd just have to give up one of the other "Other" category merits to get it. I'm pretty sure it's on a couple pieces of gear too. PLD gear, possibly.

That's what I assumed Hyrist was talking about, given the context. You have a point about boosting defensive skills but decreasing enemy critical hit rate is more universal.

Here's my WS set for CDC,

Main: 85 Almace Dex +10
Sub: Shamshir +3 +20 Attack +10 STR
Ranges: Aureole Magic Accuracy +8

Swapable Gear

Head: Theia's hairpin Dex +6 Acc +9
Neck: Rancor Collar Crit +5% Acc +6
Ear1: Hollow Earing Dex +2 Acc +3
Ear2: Brutal DA+5
Body: Assault Jerkin, Attack +18 Acc +3: Been debating to spend the gil on the Antares harness for more Dex
Hands: Warlocks' +1 Dex +6
Ring1: Thundersoul ring Dex +7
Ring2: Rajas Dex +5 Str +5
Back: Atheling mantle Attack +20 DA+3
Waist: Cuchulain's belt Dex +6 Attack +10
Legs: Tumbler trunks Dex +5 Attack +18
Feet: Lithe boots Dex +6

I have a ridiculous amount of accuracy on CDC due to DEX and ACC often being on the same pieces. What I'm having issues with is maintaining a high attack. Most commonly used food is buffalo steak but I keep pizza on hand.

Something very interesting is happening, I'm looking at 81+53 DEX for 134 total. For anything with 84 or less AGI we'd be capping dDex crit hit rate of +15% (5% being absolute base). For anything with 94 or less AGI then we'd still be hitting high and within the area of best improvement (1DEX = approx 1% crit). I speculate that this is why CDC does such amazing damage once you start unreal amounts of DEX, your starting to hit the highest dDEX bonus's and the most criticals.

Ok I know your trying to be snide, but your failing hard.

The speculation is about whether +Atk more more +Dex would enhance over all damage, specifically what happens when dDex > 40 and how that changes the weight of Dex vs Atk. The rule of thumb is 3 attack = 1 DEX when determining what piece to use, this might change as dDex >40 happens, but Dex added over dDex=50 does absolutely nothing to your crit rate. This also applies once we get Gain-DEX which would be approx 25 Dex, that's a pretty big chunk and might have us reconsidering WS gear options.

And no dDex caps at +15%, you have 5% as base floor. A dDEX of -100 still gives you a 5% crit rate, a dDex of +50 gives you a 20% crit rate, thus dDex bonus is 0~15%.

Umm you just contradicted yourself.

I said that the floor was 5% and dDEX caps at +15%. Notice the plus sign in-front of the 15, it means addition. Then you had to try to be a smart ass and say dDex caps at 20%, which it doesn't as dDex is added. Its likes saying the fSTR cap for my Almace is 71 and not +14. If you had -100 dDex then your crit would be 5% (assuming no other additives), thus while dDex crit would be +0% your base crit, merits and gear would still stack and yield you a 10% (5/5 Crit Merits) minimum crit rate, 15% if you had the Tonbery necklace. With dDEX capped and my merits / gear my crit rate would be 30%, dDEX floored would be 15%. Thus dDex cap is +15%.

Crit rate is,
5% + fDex + Merits + Gear

fDex is dDex with a curve, buried deep in BG they actually mapped out the formula. First 20 does next to nothing, second 20 does up to 5%, last 10 is 1 DEX = 1%.

No such thing as "dDex aspect" or whatever you want to call it in an attempt to back out.

Really don't see how to explain it any other way, its basic math, basic as in the kind you learn in 1st grade, 3rd at the latest.

-=Edit=-

Actually if you REALLY want to split hairs then dDEX cap isn't 15 nor 20, its 50. dDex doesn't give you crit hit, it's only the difference between your Dex and the targets Agi, and like dSTR it's only a number used as an in put for the actual formula to determine the bonus. fDex would be having the cap of 15% and the floor of 0% while dDEX is between 0 and 50.

Edited, Oct 21st 2011 9:29pm by saevellakshmi

Edited, Oct 21st 2011 9:29pm by saevellakshmi

Umm no, dDex cap is 50 period, fDex is +15.

Just because someone posts something on a LJ (seriously ... a LJ) doesn't mean its gospel.

And you do know I had that research since shortly after it was posted. It shows that scaling of fDEX from +5 ~ +15 and a crit hit rate of 5 ~ 24 (pre 5/5 crit merits).

Saying dDex cap is 20 is like saying fSTR cap is 71.... its functional but not exactly correct. This whole sidebar is because LL above wanted to get snide and show her ignorance.
Like I said, Crit hit Rate is

5 + fDex + Merits + Gear

Edited, Oct 22nd 2011 4:53am by saevellakshmi

Because fDex isn't linear. First 20 dDex do absolutely nothing, second dDex do very little, its only the final 10 that you really get your money's worth.

You can't make blanket statements like DEX > All, Atheling Mantle beats out any DEX back piece currently available, that alone disproves your statement. It's a balancing act, if your pDiff is too low then jacking up WSC is less effective, jacking up WSC in and of itself is often not nearly as effective as jacking up pDiff on multi hit WS's.

I've been getting CDC numbers that are above what I should be getting, 2K CDC's on EM~T monsters outside abyssea as a RDM/NIN. My belief is the DA stacking combined with hitting the highest tier of dDex is whats responsible for this.

Also 70 dDex gives you no extra crit then 50 dDex, so while DEX is good for enhancing crits there is a limit that you'll reach very fast.

This is all relevant because monsters do not have ridiculous AGI. Need to find a good aiming point to hit dDex 50 without going too far over and wasting other potential stats.

I didn't say totally worthless, but it's value is diminished. It's still a 60% WSC and +acc.

Honestly though the acc is less valuable, your TP set is what will dictate your food selection and our WS sets already have more acc then our TP sets. I'm looking for more attack currently.