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Job Adjustments ManifestoFollow

#1 Jul 15 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11485-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustment%EF%BD%93-Manifesto?p=145074#post145074

Quote:
Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.

Example Adjustments
Adding abilities that reduce to zero the casting time or recast time for the next spell/ninjutsu/song.
New enfeebling magic spells.


Argh.

Well, I'll wait and see the specifics.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:09pm by Zenoxio
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#2 Jul 15 2011 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Support specialists my ass. Demigods my ass. White mage provides better support. Bard and Corsair give better boosts. Now...I'm really **** Player feedback? Who the **** are they listening to?

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:14pm by Deedlitchan
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#3 Jul 15 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess that settles it. The devs have no interest whatsoever in promoting RDM's martial aspects. "moar spells" is the prevailing order.

Depressing, but not surprising. I suppose I was just waiting to hear them say it.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 12:29pm by SunriderRagnarok
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#4 Jul 15 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I guess that settles it. The devs have no interest whatsoever in promoting RDM's martial aspects. "moar spells" is the prevailing order.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/jiroochan007/stri.jpg

How quickly we forget.

Think a moment, with the exception of composure, how does Red Mage's Martial skills get any boost to begin with?

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 3:38pm by Hyrist
#5 Jul 15 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Additional Planned Adjustments

Weapon skill refinements
Adjustments to enfeebling magic
Revisions to job-specific merit point enhancement attributes.


There might be some good news here, hopefully. It's on the bottom of the page.

Quote:
Think a moment, with the exception of composure, how does Red Mage's Martial skills get any boost to begin with?


Enspells. The flub that was the tier-2 line had me raging.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:52pm by Deedlitchan
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#6 Jul 15 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Enspells. The flub that was the tier-2 line had me raging.


... and haste?


I think what this is going to boil down to is that what melee buffs we are going to get will likely be party target.

#7 Jul 15 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Yay for more focus on magic!

Double yay for it including enfeebling specifically.
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#8 Jul 15 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
I think what this is going to boil down to is that what melee buffs we are going to get will likely be party target.


Whether or not melee will be promoted (based on the Manifesto, I'm guessing not), I can say with authority that if they intend to put me back into cycles after ruining RDM's soloing and tanking prospects, I'm out. AoE or bust.
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#9 Jul 15 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Yay for more focus on magic!

Double yay for it including enfeebling specifically.


As much as I want more enfeebling, I don't want it at the exclusion of our enhancing. Both PLEASE! (Especially seeming how much of our AF3 has gone into buffing.)

Quote:
Whether or not melee will be promoted (based on the Manifesto, I'm guessing not), I can say with authority that if they intend to put me back into cycles after ruining RDM's soloing and tanking prospects, I'm out. AoE or bust.


Likely not, due to their obsession to keeping us to single target spells. Though an Aura ability would be nice in this respect. I think we've mentioned Aura buffs before.

Alternatively, remove the restrictions on Accession. I'll be satisfied with that.

But I kinda like the fact that they're flushing out these aspects more, I won't lie.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 5:00pm by Hyrist
#10 Jul 15 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Accession modifications would be fine. I just don't want to go back to the days of cycles, they were really boring days.
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#11 Jul 15 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Default
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For me the boring part of it was ONE buff, one type of groups, OVER and OVER again.

I mean, if we were going to be a buffer, I would have been fine with being able to cast an Enspell, Haste, Brave, etc on someone and watch them go to town as I switch to the next guy I turn into an absolute badass.

That wouldn't feel so tedious nearly as easily, especially if it was different buffs per person.

But that means SE needs to give quite a few more buffs to us to accomplish this 'custom made buff-et' feel I would be happy assuming as my primary job role.

Right now, there's just not enough there to make that happen.
#12 Jul 15 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Quote:
I guess that settles it. The devs have no interest whatsoever in promoting RDM's martial aspects. "moar spells" is the prevailing order.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/jiroochan007/stri.jpg

How quickly we forget.

Think a moment, with the exception of composure, how does Red Mage's Martial skills get any boost to begin with?

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 3:38pm by Hyrist

What's that animation supposed to be?


And there are ways to do it other than just more melee gear: Trait additions, Skill modifications, EX Weapon Skill privileges, and obsessive love for Enspell could all stand to serve melee orientation better.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:39pm by SunriderRagnarok
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#13 Jul 15 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Default
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'stri'

It's an Enspell-like animation just uploaded into the .dats with the last patch.




Quote:
And there are ways to do it other than just more melee gear: Trait additions, Skill modifications, EX Weapon Skill privileges, and obsessive of love for Enspell could all stand to serve melee orientation better.


'brave1' is also in the dats, so that may be the next 'haste' spell to have.

We should get more gear, really. But with WS adjustments, Merit adjustments, questionable .dats and no idea really what gear is coming down the pipeline. I think it's a bit too early to hang it up as far as adjustments.

I just think they'll more or less be side-grades comparatively to other jobs. So long as I can have a more prominent role in group activities than be a Pink Mage.
#14 Jul 15 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
... and haste?


I don't count this because it's castable on others.

Quote:
I think what this is going to boil down to is that what melee buffs we are going to get will likely be party target.


If it comes down to party target, I may or may not refuse out of spite, depending on what it is. I'm **** enough as it is, and did NOT pick this job to be a party buffer.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 5:14pm by Deedlitchan
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#15 Jul 15 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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What did you pick it as? So I have a point of refrence?

I don't mind buffing the party. It fits within the realm of being a control class. We've got our hands into everything and we manipulate the course of battle by manipulating our enemies, our allies, and even ourselves. That's kind of what RDM's been. Hybrid is part of that, for sure. And the more melee enhancement spells we can cast on our selves, let alone spread to others, the harder arguments people are going to have against RDM taking the front lines on things besides HNMs, which I'm more than fine fighting from the back lines on.

Now, would I try to regulate things like 'haste' to other classes that can cast it as well? Sure. I'm giving them MP, they can afford to spend some to lighten my load. But there should be no reason why we shouldn't be able to take the buffs that help us out, and put them to use to help others, one way or another.

Buffs for us that we can cast on others shouldn't 'not count' just because they improve everyone. Everything we give out can also be internalized (for longer) to help our own performance. I'm more than interested in seeing what SE has in store for what buffs we can have both to ourselves and to spread out to others.

It's not as if RDM in other incarnations diddn't have spells the could buff others with.
#16 Jul 15 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Default
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I picked RDM because I was expected it to be like the RDM's of FF1, III, and V. One part WHM, one part BLM, one part WAR. You had access to most of the good gear but not the absolute best stuff. You had access to most of the white magic but not the highest levels, and you had access to most of the black magic, but not the highest levels. During dungeon crawls you would melee the random battles to get them over with. During "Boss" fights you would support with buffs, debuffs and support the white mage with cures. Boss battles could be brutal because the boss typically had moves that could reduce everyone's HP to half or outright kill someone. Spending every turn with the White Mage healing left the Red Mage to do all the support tasks while your two meat heads beat on the boss to finish the fight.

FFXI ~could~ be this way, the mechanics are all present already. Just some really REALLY boneheaded decisions back in 03/04 that continued until the recent Sang Blade / Aero Edge debacle have prevented RDM from naturally slipping into this role. A RDM's sub shouldn't be forced to choose between melee DPS from /NIN (/DNC), or weapon skills from /WAR(/BLU /PLD /DRK). Several of the utility from /SCH should be native to RDM, namely the ability to AOE our buffs and debuffs. And Red Mage should be put on the same gear as other support orientated jobs. We don't expect to be on the same gear as DRK/WAR/SAM/DRG/MNK/THF types or even PLD/NIN types. But we had better be on the gear for BRD/DNC/BLU/PUP. And say whatever people want to say, currently BLU beats out RDM completely in the healing department. **** / Magic Fruit / P.Embrace / H.Breeze / Exuviation are all native BLU spells that don't require it to change subs. Then can refresh themselves and go /WHM for healing magic skill, -na's, raise, and RR (when required). All while keeping DW II and their full melee capacity. Talk about a slap in the face.

I really ~really~ hope that part of that "Weapon skill refinements" is them giving RDM access to many of the EX Sword / Dagger WS (dagger just for kicks). I'm really hating how they paint RDM as some sort of "master enfeebler" when SE has made every difficult NM in the game immune to any useful enfeeble. Slow II is the only decent enfeeble that actually works, and Saboteur, our big "Master Enfeebler" ability has been nerfed into near uselessness on big boss's. Nearly every boss is immune to Paralyze I/II, Bind, Gravity, Sleep, Silence, Break. Blind is really useless, and Addle is so "meh" that it's only worth casting cause we have nothing else. It worries me because they'll do something boneheaded and give us more "enfeebles" then turn around and make them useless on all but one or two boss's, then call it a day.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 11:51pm by saevellakshmi
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#17 Jul 15 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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saevellakshmi wrote:
I picked RDM because I was expected it to be like the RDM's of FF1, III, and V.

You guys really need to come to terms with this.
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I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#18 Jul 15 2011 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Saev wrote:
I picked RDM because I was expected it to be like the RDM's of FF1, III, and V.


We all did. Except for the band wagoners.
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#19 Jul 15 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Not really.

I picked it because I figured it would be terrible at everything and good for a laugh.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#20 Jul 15 2011 at 7:26 PM Rating: Default
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heres hoping for enfeeble based damage spells. **** melee on RDM its a waste of my time. In any regard lol at us making people demi gods.
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#21 Jul 15 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Default
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Sav do you have any of the old parses back then, as points of reference. They'll accuse it of being blind of course but you probably still have most your gear form back then, right? You could probably run a new parse in a sync party, just take screencaps. Half tempted to level a job to 75 on your server just to be the parse taker. I can afford to unlock/re-roll and it takes nothing to get to 75 these days.

Anyways, even the FF1-3 classes did not have much to support our Melee back then. Back then, Haste, a crapload of blink spells, and a decent Sword was enough. Here, we'd need a bit more umph.

Personally, the biggest issue I have with the BG crowd is that they somehow have the idea that what we want to melee is HNMs. Or, that updates would be better suited ONLY for HNM content. And while I agree that section should be buffed as a priority, I see no reason why RDM's martial aspects cannot be tied into the situation as well.

#22 Jul 16 2011 at 1:45 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:

Anyways, even the FF1-3 classes did not have much to support our Melee back then.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Thanks for this wonderful wonderful quote sir.
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I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#23 Jul 16 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
Hyrist wrote:

Anyways, even the FF1-3 classes did not have much to support our Melee back then.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Thanks for this wonderful wonderful quote sir.


...did anyone?

Because last I checked in those games 99% of how much damage you did rested solely in your weapon.

Red Mages certainly had the weapons to perform in those games.
#24 Jul 16 2011 at 4:06 AM Rating: Default
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Hyrist wrote:

Anyways, even the FF1-3 classes did not have much to support our Melee back then.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Thanks for this wonderful wonderful quote sir.


...did anyone?

Because last I checked in those games 99% of how much damage you did rested solely in your weapon.

Red Mages certainly had the weapons to perform in those games.


Yep, RDM could equip most of the "good" swords and gear, just not the "Uber" weapons. Case in point, RDM could equip the Defender and Sun Sword, which were the second best swords (not including the Infinity+1 Masamune, which you got entirely to late for it to matter) in the game but not the Excalibur (Fighter). In the early~ish parts we equipped the "Silver Sword" from the elf town just like the Fighter did, and that weapon lasted all the way until you got the Ice / Flame swords, both of which RDM could equip. You could wear decent armor, but not the heavy armor like Dragon / Steel. You had cures, but not the super ones the WHM had, you had nukes / haste / temper but not flare / death or the saber. "Random Battles" were over in one to three rounds, not long enough to both buffing anyone and it was faster to just to have the RDM hit **** with the Fighter / Thief (or Monk). On boss battles you would haste the fighter, then temper the fighter, then temper the Ninja (he hasted himself the first round), then assist curing or debuffing the boss. This strategy carried over into FFIII and FFV, and is especially noticeable in their remakes. The "Enhancing Sword" was the uber RDM sword from both FFV as it provided great damage (not as much as Ragnarok / Excalibur) and also boosted the RDM's magic stat.

Honestly guys, what "killed" RDM melee in FFXI was that XP parties consisted of fighting monsters that were entirely too hard. Abyssea has mostly corrected this, as "Random Battle" style fights are exactly what the vast majority of abyssea monsters are like, with the mini-boss's being difficult but not hard, and the end-boss's being powerful enough to warrant the RDM taking a back seat. The demand for our constant cycles was such that we simply didn't have the time for anything else. But that's all changed, the RDM Emp armor is amazing. Under composure my "Haste" lasts 11min on myself and "Refresh II" lasts over 9min on myself. Haste on others lasts about 5:20 and Refresh II lasts 4:30 on others. You have to keep composure up of course to get those big duration bonus's.

-=Hyrst=-

Well all my gear has since been significantly upgraded.
Brisk Mask / W.Turban (going for Z.Tiara soon)
PCC / (Acc+5 Crit+1 neck), will replace with a tonbery neck once I get a chance
Suppa + Brutal
ACP Body, Atk+10 DW+3
Dusk +1 Hands
Rajas + Atk+7 Acc+3 Ring
Athling Mantle
Goading Belt
Calmeric Trousers
Dusk +1 Feet

Weapons include,
Main: STR Shamshir +2 (For outside Abyssea), Twilight Dagger (Inside Abysee). Soon I'll be finished my skins on Almace and it will replace both
Sub: Chim Flueret (before nerf, will have to make DA+10 sword probably), Debating on my STR / Atk Shamshir, we really need the attack
Ammo: Aerole, that Mag.Acc+8 chakra from AV

Then various pieces for WS. Once I finish Almace I'll have to redo my WS kits for RDM / PLD / BLU though.

RDM's single biggest problem ~now~ is the complete lack of new melee gear. I'm still using 75~era because there isn't anything to replace it with. Obviously I compensates with HQ dusk, but I seriously don't expect average players to foot the bill for those, not for calmeric trousers.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#25 Jul 16 2011 at 4:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll wait and see for the moment. Implementation will be key to this one, as much as it pains me to say it.

That out of the way...

I rolled a Red Mage because I have a thing for sword & magic hybrids. I was the guy that tried to sneak Spellswords into D&D campaigns whenever I could. There's an allure to the archetype that is not present anywhere else, as I am fascinated by classes that can combine one thing with another and still stand on equal footing in their own way. So yeah, I was very disappointed to find that my RDM's role was "buffbot with a bit of enfeebling mixed in". Specially so after all the history the class has had, not to mention the circumstances that allowed it to swing that sword before XI came to be.

I was always fine with leaving the big heavy weapons to the warriors and the shields and broadswords to the knights/paladins, so long as my class had the option of standing toe to toe with them, reaching the same ends but with its own twist on things. You know, the big burly warrior cleaving a monster in half with a huge axe, whereas the red mage would use a fine blade to wear an opponent down then toss in their magic to make up the difference.
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#26 Jul 16 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Cid, quoting out of context is old trollin.

Get with the times and use a Meme or something.

Anyways, Sav, why not Goliard on the body? Haste kinda dominates the typical melee rounds and I doubt those rules are different from RDM.

In other news that **** me off:

Looks like 'stri' and 'brave1' are going to go to Paladin and Scholar respectively.

They call us a buffer class, then give all the buffs to other jobs. @#%^ing moronic.


Edited, Jul 16th 2011 10:22am by Hyrist
#27 Jul 16 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Cid, quoting out of context is old trollin.

Get with the times and use a Meme or something.

Anyways, Sav, why not Goliard on the body? Haste kinda dominates the typical melee rounds and I doubt those rules are different from RDM.

In other news that **** me off:

Looks like 'stri' and 'brave1' are going to go to Paladin and Scholar respectively.

They call us a buffer class, then give all the buffs to other jobs. @#%^ing moronic.


Edited, Jul 16th 2011 10:22am by Hyrist



I'd withhold judgement on that, I doubt those are what we think they are. RDM will get Gain-STR, Gain-DEX and Gain-INT, that's pretty much a given. Those two spells are likely completely new spells / abilities an thus I'd figured PLD / SCH and / or WHM would be on them.

Simply put, I haven't been assed to both with Nyzule Isle to get my Golliard Body and I probably won't get it for a long time. I'm also waiting to see what SE creates at 95 and above, at some point in time blind incompetence will have us on some +haste body that we share with BLU / PUP / BRD / SMN or some-such mix. That and we dearly need attack. The only thing nobody thought about was that defense doesn't scale at the same rate attack does. Monsters are starting to get retarded defense now, especially the stuff outside of Aybssea.
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Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#28 Jul 16 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Nah I think I'm well within my rights to be **** off at those two spells not going to RDM considering that they had the audacity to call us buffers when all we have is Haste and Refresh.

It seems it dosen't matter WHAT idea they show, they're **** poor at utalizing any vision they have for RDM.

Mage or Melee, that's infuriating. At least with as a decent buffer class I could have RDM push the more support debuff aspect as main role and swap to BLU for a more 'in crowd' melee fix.

At this point, however, there's absolute sh*t in store for RDM as a job. I'll beleive the 'Enfeeble Adjustments' when I see them.

And you can do Nyzul now with 3, Sav. Go and get your body, it's worth it.

Edited, Jul 16th 2011 1:55pm by Hyrist
#29 Jul 16 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Default
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That's why I said nothing for RDM has changed. It was very frustrating back in the Sky days to be labeled the "Enfeebler" and only have a hand full of spells to use, most which were either resisted or immune to.

That's why, honestly, I'm just happy to get anything. Some times it seems that SE make changes based on the player base and sometimes it seems from their vision. I'll just take whatever and make it work.
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#30 Jul 16 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
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Yeah I'll believe their are "enfeebling adjustments" when I see it. SE's too afraid of a RDM soloing their boss's by using enfeebles. I'm pretty sure anything they add will be made immediately useless by making their "new" HNM's immune to it. That or the effect will be like addle's, really weak.

I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#31 Jul 16 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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So we're getting brave/faith which will make the "buffing demigods" thing true?
#32 Jul 16 2011 at 10:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.


Tell that to my group.

RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.

Just vary your damage outputs, you should be more than fine getting 5 floors a climb at level 90.
#33 Jul 16 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Default
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RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.


Same, we go NIN THF WHM and haven't lost yet.. although droprate on bosses sucks as always. -.-
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#34 Jul 17 2011 at 3:41 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
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I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.


Tell that to my group.

RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.

Just vary your damage outputs, you should be more than fine getting 5 floors a climb at level 90.


Went with a pickup group and one run we beat the Lv 100 boss with plenty of time. Second run I changed to DRK so that I could get the weapon drop and we had a horrible time. We were running with five. Had a five switch floor which was a pita, thankfully we had the members for it. But with three people how would you do four and five switch floors? We also had a string of kill specific family "Psychflayers" and "kill all" Puddings / Oozes.
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Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#35 Jul 17 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
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We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.


This is what I've pushed for a long time on the forums. I know the few old school RDM's left wanted a melee increase, but that's just not realistic with all the melee classes already available. Granted FFXI isn't as horribly balanced as FFXIV's melee vs mage classes, but it's not good. Every mage wants to whack their staff thinking they are playing an offline RPG and forgetting their playing a MMO. RDM's major weakness for a long time has been weak enfeebling on HNM's. This has been true dating back to 2004. The only difference was back then, we were refresh whores so it didn't matter. I'm glad to see SE has finally woke up and listened to me. I've only been pushing this for 5 years+ now. Better late than never.
#36Almalieque, Posted: Jul 17 2011 at 8:25 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Exactly. Melee buffs can happen, see Composure and Tier II enspells (minus the enhancing requirements). It's just hard to do because SE would have to create a melee buff that's only effective in party, else RDM would become the "Solo God". That's why Composure reduces casting time and enspells don't proc of dual wield. HNMs weren't designed to be soloed.
#37 Jul 17 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous
#38 Jul 17 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Default
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What Slash said.
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#39 Jul 17 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Shadow, RDM's role on HNM mobs was never in question here. But creating a wider viariety in which Red Mage can take to the frontlines has been a long standing (and once acknowledged) desire of Red Mages for a long time. There's no valid reason why they should not accommodate that. At all.

Quote:
But with three people how would you do four and five switch floors?


If you go in with 3 people, you will never get a 5 man lamp floor. Nyzul adjusts for number of participants.
#40 Jul 17 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Default
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If you go in with 3 people, you will never get a 5 man lamp floor. Nyzul adjusts for number of participants.


I am pretty sure this is false. The only type this applies to is Registration Lamps, as it only requires everyone in the group to register.

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 7:24pm by rdmcandie
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#41 Jul 17 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
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#42 Jul 17 2011 at 7:17 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?
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#43 Jul 17 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?


If you're doing 80% of a dd, then that dd sucks
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Almalieque wrote:

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#44 Jul 17 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
SlashAnonymous wrote:
A melee buff would make Rdms solo gods...really?

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 4:28pm by SlashAnonymous


Uhhh.. no, did you not read my entire post? I said there can be melee buffs, but they would have to be carefully balanced like the examples I provided in the post. If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?



You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?


We can't even do 100% of a Whm

We are far past that 80% of a DD mark
#45 Jul 17 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:

I am pretty sure this is false. The only type this applies to is Registration Lamps, as it only requires everyone in the group to register.



You can claim that, but never in a grouping of 3 have I ever had more than a 3 lamp floor. Never in a grouping of 4 have I had more than a 4 lamp floor.

You'd think in the time since the level cap catching friends up on floors in groups of 3-4 people we'd have run into a 5 lamp floor by now.

We haven't. You can call it luck, or put it to the test yourself.



Edited, Jul 17th 2011 11:06pm by Hyrist
#46 Jul 17 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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I can confirm being in a 3 man group will -not- prevent you from getting a 5 lamp same time floor. So yes, you got lucky.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 12:18am by Neisan
#47 Jul 18 2011 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I can confirm being in a 3 man group will -not- prevent you from getting a 5 lamp same time floor. So yes, you got lucky.


I can also confirm that a 5 lamp floor is not a guaranteed loss for 3 people, especially if one of them is THF.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#48 Jul 18 2011 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
Because maybe you don't want to be the guy with the rapier and pimp hat, and instead want to be maybe the guy with the huge axe, or maybe the emo guy in spiky armor with a scythe, or maybe the guy with the great katana in hand. Plenty of reasons, really.

Your claim has already been debunked several times, so I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:10am by Ruisu
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#49 Jul 18 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If RDM can DD like a DD, then why play a DD?
Because maybe you don't want to be the guy with the rapier and pimp hat, and instead want to be maybe the guy with the huge axe, or maybe the emo guy in spiky armor with a scythe, or maybe the guy with the great katana in hand. Plenty of reasons, really.

Your claim has already been debunked several times, so I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:10am by Ruisu


That's not "plenty of reasons", but one, "aesthetics". If you believe the player base is more aesthetic than practical, you're sadly mistaken. You should visit our other RDM thread where RDM is claimed to be "mostly useless" because it has a 3:5 kill ratio on certain mobs.

If RDM could deal the same amount of damage as a DD, you best believe there would be an increase of RDMs. I'm not proposing that should happen, I'm just stating the reality. If your only reason is "I want to be a Samurai", then you are agreeing with me about the love for a job > practicality and if you flock to a jock just because of a like update, then that makes you a band wagoner.

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#50 Jul 18 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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The "80%" was as of level 75, since then we've taken a huge nose dive. Like the above posters said, a WHM can "out DD" us now. The reasons are simply, nearly every other job in the game as been super buffed in one way or another. The jobs that got good stuff got better stuff, and the jobs that didn't get good stuff got better stuff. Only three jobs have been ignored, SMN, RDM and SCH. Some arguments can be made for BRD, but they were and will always be the most desired buffing job in the game, especially now that they can both haste and march people.

The big feeling I get from SE is their afraid of enabling another Avesta. Of giving the job anything that could possibly make it stronger in any sense, out of fear that someone will find a way to abuse it to solo super NM's. And until this fear is removed, RDM will never ever ~ever~ get anything of substance. Avesta did some amazing things, but no single player hurt the job more then he did.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#51 Jul 18 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to have to disagree with pretty much everything you just said; y'all need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves, seriously... we got plenty of amazing things from 75>90, including huge boosts to both our melee and nuking games.

I mean really, out-DD'd by BRD and WHM? In case you haven't heard, Abyssea's over, man.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
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