Job Adjustmentｓ ManifestoFollow

Support specialists my ass. Demigods my ass. White mage provides better support. Bard and Corsair give better boosts. Now...I'm really pissed. Player feedback? Who the hell are they listening to?

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:14pm by Deedlitchan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/jiroochan007/stri.jpg

How quickly we forget.

Think a moment, with the exception of composure, how does Red Mage's Martial skills get any boost to begin with?

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 3:38pm by Hyrist

... and haste?


I think what this is going to boil down to is that what melee buffs we are going to get will likely be party target.

Whether or not melee will be promoted (based on the Manifesto, I'm guessing not), I can say with authority that if they intend to put me back into cycles after ruining RDM's soloing and tanking prospects, I'm out. AoE or bust.

Accession modifications would be fine. I just don't want to go back to the days of cycles, they were really boring days.

What's that animation supposed to be?


And there are ways to do it other than just more melee gear: Trait additions, Skill modifications, EX Weapon Skill privileges, and obsessive love for Enspell could all stand to serve melee orientation better.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:39pm by SunriderRagnarok

I don't count this because it's castable on others.



If it comes down to party target, I may or may not refuse out of spite, depending on what it is. I'm pissed enough as it is, and did NOT pick this job to be a party buffer.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 5:14pm by Deedlitchan

I picked RDM because I was expected it to be like the RDM's of FF1, III, and V. One part WHM, one part BLM, one part WAR. You had access to most of the good gear but not the absolute best stuff. You had access to most of the white magic but not the highest levels, and you had access to most of the black magic, but not the highest levels. During dungeon crawls you would melee the random battles to get them over with. During "Boss" fights you would support with buffs, debuffs and support the white mage with cures. Boss battles could be brutal because the boss typically had moves that could reduce everyone's HP to half or outright kill someone. Spending every turn with the White Mage healing left the Red Mage to do all the support tasks while your two meat heads beat on the boss to finish the fight.

FFXI ~could~ be this way, the mechanics are all present already. Just some really REALLY boneheaded decisions back in 03/04 that continued until the recent Sang Blade / Aero Edge debacle have prevented RDM from naturally slipping into this role. A RDM's sub shouldn't be forced to choose between melee DPS from /NIN (/DNC), or weapon skills from /WAR(/BLU /PLD /DRK). Several of the utility from /SCH should be native to RDM, namely the ability to AOE our buffs and debuffs. And Red Mage should be put on the same gear as other support orientated jobs. We don't expect to be on the same gear as DRK/WAR/SAM/DRG/MNK/THF types or even PLD/NIN types. But we had better be on the gear for BRD/DNC/BLU/PUP. And say whatever people want to say, currently BLU beats out RDM completely in the healing department. WoP / Magic Fruit / P.Embrace / H.Breeze / Exuviation are all native BLU spells that don't require it to change subs. Then can refresh themselves and go /WHM for healing magic skill, -na's, raise, and RR (when required). All while keeping DW II and their full melee capacity. Talk about a slap in the face.

I really ~really~ hope that part of that "Weapon skill refinements" is them giving RDM access to many of the EX Sword / Dagger WS (dagger just for kicks). I'm really hating how they paint RDM as some sort of "master enfeebler" when SE has made every difficult NM in the game immune to any useful enfeeble. Slow II is the only decent enfeeble that actually works, and Saboteur, our big "Master Enfeebler" ability has been nerfed into near uselessness on big boss's. Nearly every boss is immune to Paralyze I/II, Bind, Gravity, Sleep, Silence, Break. Blind is really useless, and Addle is so "meh" that it's only worth casting cause we have nothing else. It worries me because they'll do something boneheaded and give us more "enfeebles" then turn around and make them useless on all but one or two boss's, then call it a day.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 11:51pm by saevellakshmi

We all did. Except for the band wagoners.

heres hoping for enfeeble based damage spells. @#%^ melee on RDM its a waste of my time. In any regard lol at us making people demi gods.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Thanks for this wonderful wonderful quote sir.

Yep, RDM could equip most of the "good" swords and gear, just not the "Uber" weapons. Case in point, RDM could equip the Defender and Sun Sword, which were the second best swords (not including the Infinity+1 Masamune, which you got entirely to late for it to matter) in the game but not the Excalibur (Fighter). In the early~ish parts we equipped the "Silver Sword" from the elf town just like the Fighter did, and that weapon lasted all the way until you got the Ice / Flame swords, both of which RDM could equip. You could wear decent armor, but not the heavy armor like Dragon / Steel. You had cures, but not the super ones the WHM had, you had nukes / haste / temper but not flare / death or the saber. "Random Battles" were over in one to three rounds, not long enough to both buffing anyone and it was faster to just to have the RDM hit sh!t with the Fighter / Thief (or Monk). On boss battles you would haste the fighter, then temper the fighter, then temper the Ninja (he hasted himself the first round), then assist curing or debuffing the boss. This strategy carried over into FFIII and FFV, and is especially noticeable in their remakes. The "Enhancing Sword" was the uber RDM sword from both FFV as it provided great damage (not as much as Ragnarok / Excalibur) and also boosted the RDM's magic stat.

Honestly guys, what "killed" RDM melee in FFXI was that XP parties consisted of fighting monsters that were entirely too hard. Abyssea has mostly corrected this, as "Random Battle" style fights are exactly what the vast majority of abyssea monsters are like, with the mini-boss's being difficult but not hard, and the end-boss's being powerful enough to warrant the RDM taking a back seat. The demand for our constant cycles was such that we simply didn't have the time for anything else. But that's all changed, the RDM Emp armor is amazing. Under composure my "Haste" lasts 11min on myself and "Refresh II" lasts over 9min on myself. Haste on others lasts about 5:20 and Refresh II lasts 4:30 on others. You have to keep composure up of course to get those big duration bonus's.

-=Hyrst=-

Well all my gear has since been significantly upgraded.
Brisk Mask / W.Turban (going for Z.Tiara soon)
PCC / (Acc+5 Crit+1 neck), will replace with a tonbery neck once I get a chance
Suppa + Brutal
ACP Body, Atk+10 DW+3
Dusk +1 Hands
Rajas + Atk+7 Acc+3 Ring
Athling Mantle
Goading Belt
Calmeric Trousers
Dusk +1 Feet

Weapons include,
Main: STR Shamshir +2 (For outside Abyssea), Twilight Dagger (Inside Abysee). Soon I'll be finished my skins on Almace and it will replace both
Sub: Chim Flueret (before nerf, will have to make DA+10 sword probably), Debating on my STR / Atk Shamshir, we really need the attack
Ammo: Aerole, that Mag.Acc+8 chakra from AV

Then various pieces for WS. Once I finish Almace I'll have to redo my WS kits for RDM / PLD / BLU though.

RDM's single biggest problem ~now~ is the complete lack of new melee gear. I'm still using 75~era because there isn't anything to replace it with. Obviously I compensates with HQ dusk, but I seriously don't expect average players to foot the bill for those, not for calmeric trousers.

Cid, quoting out of context is old trollin.

Get with the times and use a Meme or something.

Anyways, Sav, why not Goliard on the body? Haste kinda dominates the typical melee rounds and I doubt those rules are different from RDM.

In other news that pisses me off:

Looks like 'stri' and 'brave1' are going to go to Paladin and Scholar respectively.

They call us a buffer class, then give all the buffs to other jobs. @#%^ing moronic.


Edited, Jul 16th 2011 10:22am by Hyrist

Nah I think I'm well within my rights to be pissed off at those two spells not going to RDM considering that they had the audacity to call us buffers when all we have is Haste and Refresh.

It seems it dosen't matter WHAT idea they show, they're piss poor at utalizing any vision they have for RDM.

Mage or Melee, that's infuriating. At least with as a decent buffer class I could have RDM push the more support debuff aspect as main role and swap to BLU for a more 'in crowd' melee fix.

At this point, however, there's absolute sh*t in store for RDM as a job. I'll beleive the 'Enfeeble Adjustments' when I see them.

And you can do Nyzul now with 3, Sav. Go and get your body, it's worth it.

Edited, Jul 16th 2011 1:55pm by Hyrist

Yeah I'll believe their are "enfeebling adjustments" when I see it. SE's too afraid of a RDM soloing their boss's by using enfeebles. I'm pretty sure anything they add will be made immediately useless by making their "new" HNM's immune to it. That or the effect will be like addle's, really weak.

I'll eventually get around to doing Nyzule isle. And while is possible to enter with 3, it's not possible to beat it with three lol, as we discovered the other day. Switch floors or puddings will mess you up everytime.

Tell that to my group.

RDM BLU DNC. We can occasionally get 10 floors in a run. More if we gather a couple other people who are just hawking for floors.

Just vary your damage outputs, you should be more than fine getting 5 floors a climb at level 90.

Went with a pickup group and one run we beat the Lv 100 boss with plenty of time. Second run I changed to DRK so that I could get the weapon drop and we had a horrible time. We were running with five. Had a five switch floor which was a pita, thankfully we had the members for it. But with three people how would you do four and five switch floors? We also had a string of kill specific family "Psychflayers" and "kill all" Puddings / Oozes.

What Slash said.

I am pretty sure this is false. The only type this applies to is Registration Lamps, as it only requires everyone in the group to register.

Edited, Jul 17th 2011 7:24pm by rdmcandie

You mean keep it like it is now, capable of ding about 80% of a DD's numbers while in a DD role. With the tools to provide utility should it arise?

We can't even do 100% of a Whm

We are far past that 80% of a DD mark

I can confirm being in a 3 man group will -not- prevent you from getting a 5 lamp same time floor. So yes, you got lucky.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 12:18am by Neisan

Because maybe you don't want to be the guy with the rapier and pimp hat, and instead want to be maybe the guy with the huge axe, or maybe the emo guy in spiky armor with a scythe, or maybe the guy with the great katana in hand. Plenty of reasons, really.

Your claim has already been debunked several times, so I'm not sure why it was brought up in the first place.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 4:10am by Ruisu

The "80%" was as of level 75, since then we've taken a huge nose dive. Like the above posters said, a WHM can "out DD" us now. The reasons are simply, nearly every other job in the game as been super buffed in one way or another. The jobs that got good stuff got better stuff, and the jobs that didn't get good stuff got better stuff. Only three jobs have been ignored, SMN, RDM and SCH. Some arguments can be made for BRD, but they were and will always be the most desired buffing job in the game, especially now that they can both haste and march people.

The big feeling I get from SE is their afraid of enabling another Avesta. Of giving the job anything that could possibly make it stronger in any sense, out of fear that someone will find a way to abuse it to solo super NM's. And until this fear is removed, RDM will never ever ~ever~ get anything of substance. Avesta did some amazing things, but no single player hurt the job more then he did.