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#1 Jun 02 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
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How are red mages in endgame?

Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 12:56pm by Qualic
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#2 Jun 02 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Crying in their respective corners or off soloing stuff.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#3 Jun 02 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
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How tragic.... Red mage was always the most fun. Always felt like I was playing piano swapping from ws, to spells, and abilities.
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#4 Jun 02 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, as much as people say RDM isn't doing so well, the face of endgame, at least so far what I've seen. Has changed SO much, that anyone who really addresses 'endgame' with a straight face kinda aught to get laughed at.

From my, relatively new perspective, it looks more along the lines that endgame has broken down into groups of friends getting things done for each other. Essentially, your social could help you get things done. The days of hardcore endgame seem to be dwindling. Though, this could be more due to the transitional phase we have right now.

That said, most abyssean NMS don't need much in terms of Debuffing, and RDM no longer has the raw powerhouse of healing it once had, so their role is a lot more along the lines of general support, and as it's not very cleanly defined, it's not overtly desired.

But so far I've not see any people going out of their way to push away a Red Mage's help either. But if you have another job handy, and it's for something that's desired, you'd likely be asked to play that instead.

I think the only issue really is competition for all jobs pieces and things for abyssea and whatnot. Which, really, isn't too tough to get around.
#5 Jun 02 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
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I dunno I still see plenty of activity as a RDM, and to be quite frank, I play quite a large variety of roles now the @ 75. (Well that is without at least one person not having a total sh*t fit if I used a WS on an NM if I had TP stored, or used a wing, or nuked because sitting on 900MP waitng for a cure 4 is silly). Ive done lots of low man stuff where I was /WAR and used as the red proc job, blu proc job, yellow proc job. All be it no where near as effective as say a WAR, NIN or BLM.

RDM is not overly useful....until you wish you had one. Outside of abyssea its use is almost mandatory, for refresh II alone as infinite MP dies at the Maws.

The way I look at it, is this. The people who played RDM solely in the style "accepted" @ the 75 cap, are the ones who have the largest gripe of RDM being useless. As one who used the versatility of the Job my entire FFXI carear I would say RDM is more useful now then it ever was. It is truly that job that fills holes now. While we are indeed missing somethings at a direct comparison level (see Melee falling behind more and more, Healing being pretty much comparable to a /WHM), the fact is that we can fill mostly any hole (in and out of abyssea) and can do so pretty fairly.

By far currently as of today Nuking is RDM's strongest suit, but its healing and melee are both average.
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#6 Jun 06 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the old school RDM's not liking the class as much anymore and the new school (me) loving it. I played a while back but never got a RDM past 30. I was intrigued by the class and its versatility but never really wanted to take it any farther than a subjob.

This time around, things are a bit different. I picked up RDM and was pretty bored with it until I got access to SS and Phalanx. I normally run rank/story missions with friends and I have to say... having a RDM has made me a great deal more helpful than my SMN main. I feel like I have more to do in the fight and more control over what happens in the fight. With Composure this class is excellent solo. My self buffs stay on for quite a while which allows me to focus more on my friends and the fight.

Personally I am going to take RDM to 90 to have a multi-use job. I run with a DNC, PLD and BST when doing missions so my ability to heal/enfeeb/buff is essential. I duo a lot with my DNC friend so it makes it easy being a class that can nearly infinitely fight.

I feel quite powerful as a RDM. While not powerful as in DD... but powerful as in, "I am not afraid to fight Tough's anymore." At level 61 I still melee a bit and spend most of my time enfeebling and buffing. I haven't really had to step up and be a main healer other than when a WHM or SCH goes AFK. Even then I still find time to get up there and melee/enfeeb the mob.

I realize this isn't an Endgame Review but I thought I would put my two cents in.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 3:22pm by blindsyde84
#7 Jun 06 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Glad to see you are branching out early lots of RDM's do not and then wonder why when they try they fail. Being a DD oriented RDM is tough, because not only do you try and optimize what you can do offensively, you are always the fall back and need to know when your support becomes more efficient over a certain span of time. This is something that JA's Gear etc can not give you.

Another issue I see so freaking much it makes me sick is the RDM's who try and melee in sh*t like errants gear (yes it still happens even though errants is mostly replaced by teal). They tend t be the ones who so heartily try and tell us RDM melee is garbage.

Ive said it many many times before a RDM can put out 70-75%(80-85% if all you are casting is dia III) of a top DD's numbers, while at the same time increasing that DD's numbers by 35-40%(17% if all you are using is dia, haste varies depending on the amount of bonus from haste equiped and being applied.) with Haste and Dia III, and helping to keep them healed.

70-75% isn't anything to scoff at considering the other perks of having the RDM present (Crowd control, Magic kills, Magic Damage on PD and Invincible mobs).

Playing RDM in a well rounded way tends to be infinitely more useful (*currently in abyssea and any endgame outside of abyssea subject to change depending on how SE changes difficulty of upcomming content, or past conent tweaks). Then a RDM who solely focus's on one task. This is large in part due to the fact that RDM is so outclassed in specific roles it makes no sense to bring one to simply heal, or nuke, or melee, but one that combines all three is a great asset to any low to mid man sized group, for the reasons i pointed out above.

Just please promise me that if you do melee, wear melee gear and not mage gear, for the love of god don't do that, it makes you look silly, and is one of the largest factors responsibl for lol rdmmelee stigma.
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#8 Jun 07 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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blindsyde84 wrote:

I feel quite powerful as a RDM. While not powerful as in DD... but powerful as in, "I am not afraid to fight Tough's anymore."

Mobs stopped being intimidating the moment I realized I could consistently land Bind, Gravity and Sleep on anything that wasn't completely out of my level range.

@RCD: I'm curious to know whether all this switching roles you do is done in the field or in the mog house before you set out. I can't imagine having enough inventory to hold proper melee sets and still being able to act as a fully functioning mage. 80 slots just doesn't seem like enough.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#9 Jun 07 2011 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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@RCD: I'm curious to know whether all this switching roles you do is done in the field or in the mog house before you set out. I can't imagine having enough inventory to hold proper melee sets and still being able to act as a fully functioning mage. 80 slots just doesn't seem like enough.


It is a good thing I have 160 then.

Only sets one needs in aby are a nuking set, a TP set, and a WS set. Everyting else is a placebo. HMP set is nigh useless, Refresh gear is mostly unneeded (I can't rememberthe last time I even had to use convert. Or needed to wait on its timer). The only thing that is a pain is going back to the dude to change my atmas depending on what role I will be doing. But even then I tend to just go with RR/VV/Beyond, so I can buff Vorpal(or evis if im /WAR or /NIN), build TP for my weaker Weapons before trying a proc (staff, club if /WAR), boost Sanguine, boost Blizz 4. Not that hard to fit 70ish items for the three sets in my bag, with meds, tools as well.







Edited, Jun 7th 2011 10:15am by rdmcandie
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#10 Jun 07 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
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@RCD: I'm curious to know whether all this switching roles you do is done in the field or in the mog house before you set out. I can't imagine having enough inventory to hold proper melee sets and still being able to act as a fully functioning mage. 80 slots just doesn't seem like enough.


It is a good thing I have 160 then.

Ah, ok. This explains much and confirms my suspicions.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#11 Jun 08 2011 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly RDM doesn't need a bazillion equips, never really did, and most definitely not inside abyssea. People would become obsessive to get 5 situation pieces that would combined give you 3 more MND and 3 more m.acc on Slow. The ultimate result is a 3~4% higher initial land rate, or something like 0.5 ~ 2.0% higher actual land rate. Problem was that like melee accuracy magic accuracy caps, and anything that RDM couldn't easily cap it out on was most likely immune or nearly immune. The actual effect of the majority of situational gear was marginal to nearly nonexistent when the bigger picture was looked at. But there wasn't anything else to expand on and maintain a "mage onry" stance, so people did it. TP set, WS set, nuke set, and a set for landing enfeebles (bind/gravity/sleep/silence and maybe slow) without switching weapons. This is accomplished in 60 gear slots with some creative use of a few pieces, and easily accomplished with 70 gear slots. I know because I've done it before mog sack / mog satchel was introduced. Biggest issue was that you had to leave staves at the mog house, but that isn't a problem anymore with the sack.

"End Game" RDM depends. Inside abyssea we're kinda useless most of the time. Useful when your LS or friends are killing some of the Hero body +2 / emp+2 NM's without brews. Saboteur Dia III / Slow II is a pretty nice thing to throw up, plus haste / refresh / phalanx II and the occasional spot cure. Outside of abyssea we're bad a$$'s. The new VoidWatch NM's are no fcking joke. The T2 crab will kick your a$$ if all you've done is abyssea. The T3 crazy-fairy-b1tch will stomp a mud hole in your chest if you go in with a MNK + WHM "we can do anything" mentality. Those NM's have so many ways to completely screw you over with little to do recourse (Strip buffs -> lock gear -> Thundaja" or the crab's 400 ~ 900 damage aoe that inflicts a 30~50hp/tick venom effect that can't be removed. The crab one shooting tanks with mega scissors or the Behemoth spamming Thunderbolt -> Meteor -> Thunderbolt -> Ecliptic Meteor under 50% HP.
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#12 Jun 08 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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All this information has proven useful. I will eventual master rdm.
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#13 Jun 08 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
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I am mostly melee/enfeeb with my AF plus filling the earring/ring/neck slots with some kinda DD gear that doesn't lower my mage stats. I am finding it quite enjoyable. Now that I have access to the tier 2 en- spells, my damage is very solid on EM-T mobs. Wis.Wiz. Anelace with tier 2 en- spell that corresponds with the mob's weakness can land for ~100 dmg combined. Which is a nice chunk to hit with during the enfeeble rotation. My only issue is our WS are kinda "meh" for the damage they put out. I am hoping that the later levels of the sword will offer stronger WS. (Currently I am capped on my sword and dagger just under 200).

I really do love this class for the versatility it offers as well as being a respectable sub-job for most casters. Once my RDM is maxed I will be doing BRD/RDM to cap.


edit: The ability to land sleep on a EM-IT mob is amazing too lol.

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 1:05pm by blindsyde84
#14 Jun 08 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Default
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Invest in some melee gear, and experiment with subjobs. A lot of exp groups do not require /WHM, or /mage at all for that matter. /WAR or /BLU (healing breeze is pretty useful at times) with Vorpal Blade and a melee set (TP and WS) you will see WS numbers jump pretty good. The issue with RDM WS's is the good ones (ones that we can make work well) like vorpal and Sanguine later on, are not available to us natively and we must use a sub to get them. Conversely on the other side we have Evis and AE both which are higher level.

If you can get away with /WAR or /BLU you will find Vorpal to be very nice. It is a great WS until we get Evisceration. (which allows us to /NIN or /DNC for DW bonus).
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#15 Jun 08 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it better to be melee'ing with dagger or sword as a RDM/BLM or SCH? I dont have any melee jobs leveled high enough to be a sub for my RDM.
#16 Jun 08 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Depends on what WSs you've unlocked, but if you really want to melee, screw the mage subs and get a few melee up. I like /dnc since it not only comes with Dual Wield, but status removal as well.
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#17 Jun 08 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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If you HAVE to melee with /sch then grab a martial knife, put up windstorm, and use Aeolian Edge with a wind obi. Might as well get some AE e-peen shots lol.
#18 Jun 08 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Default
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blindsyde84 wrote:
Is it better to be melee'ing with dagger or sword as a RDM/BLM or SCH? I dont have any melee jobs leveled high enough to be a sub for my RDM.


At your level it doesn't really matter (based on your subs) both Weapons have lac luster WS's. Cyclone can be decent (dagger) if you can avoid the AoE effec it has, but your best bet is to level BLU or WAR and get access to vorpal. Mage subs are not overly needed outside of endgame (considering the probability you will EXP mostly on Colibri until Abyssea). Sword with Vorpal Blade is the best, until you can get Evis from dagger which is (statistically when including DoT factor of TP phase) the best until you get CDC (sword).

Slash is correct that AE can be pretty potent but as usual he skipped the part where you were leveling up still and obviously do not have access to AE. @ 85 when you get AE it is a very fun WS, but so is Sanguin Blade (Sang is awesome Single target AE is awesome multi target).

My best advice, Level WAR up, get it to 40 or so. You will want /NIN eventually anyway for engame stuff and war is the best sub for it until NIN30/DNC15(assumed solo in PT WAR wins for ever.), so no reason to not knock out 2 birds with one stone.


Edited, Jun 8th 2011 11:55pm by rdmcandie
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#19 Jul 17 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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[quote]But so far I've not see any people going out of their way to push away a Red Mage's help either. But if you have another job handy, and it's for something that's desired, you'd likely be asked to play that instead.
Qualic wrote:
How are red mages in endgame?


It does happen. I tried today on Leviathan and was ignored by a spammer looking for party members as were other red mages at the time. And from the small experience I have had in Abyssea, I was still spending a good deal of my time healing so someone still must think we do okay that way
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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