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#152 Jul 06 2011 at 9:14 PM Rating: Default
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it isn't completely useless, it is mostly useless. In the sense RDM is good for really 2 things, Brewing, id say its the second strongest in the game no doubt, eiter chainspell brew, or Sang Blade brew, and of course outside abyssea, where enfeebles mean something, and refresh matters (looking at voidwatch mostly).

RDM enffeebles should be completely removed from that list, and replaced with a proper stance function, similar to DNC's Fan Dance/Saber Dance, SCH's LA/BA. Instead inversly supporting and nerfing frontline ability, and backline ability. The enfeeble spells should be scrolls, with the options at 99 (if) supporting further options with specfic spell categories, offering bonuses to any of healing, enfeebling, enhancing, and elemental. With the other 2 designed around Combat and Defenses.

Don't try and play little games with, Ive shred my fair share of ideas, and made my disagreement and agreements on others. Lots of times, don't sit there and pretend I haven't been rated to subdefault and back based on my opinions both shared and opinionated on.

The fact of the matter is, RDM in the current game is bad, really bad, while it is fun to play, it is not beneficial to other, and outside of fun factor not beneficial to your self.

You mentioned about me get 5:3 on my DNC, that is important, the faster I get **** done that I want/need to, the more time I have to **** around on my RDM and farm dark rings, solo dyna currency, duo ancient currency, all stuff I also like to do that my RDM is great in. The faster I get done with mundane things like seals, and nm farms, the quicker I can go do other ****.

RDM is crap inside of abyssea, just deal with, the job is not designed abyssea friendly. Sure it might be able to play hero and get 3 procs here and there, turn some heads etc. But thats rare, and about the only thing RDM offers, all be it impractically.

No ive gone over the pro's and con's enough, RDM just has to many red flags in abyssea. It sucks, but I chose to level stuff that helps reduce mine and others time in abyssea, so we can do things we like to do.
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#153 Jul 06 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
I could give two sh*ts about whatever you think you proved years ago. All that matters now is that you are spewing some seriously flawed bullsh*t here and now, and I'm calling you on it.



Wait, so are you going to put some words to that challenge or just talk ish? You haven't said anything to support the nonsense that you're referencing. So either get to 'splainin or STFU.

Lyltiao wrote:
I don't know what you solo on RDM, but it sounds like some pretty @#%^ing weak sh*t to me. Given that your NIN subjob is level 20, I'm going to go ahead and assume you've soloed nothing truly dangerous and/or impressive, so your opinions on the subject (besides being self-defeating in themselves) are completely invalid.


I haven't soloed anything worth noting, but that has zero impact on the RDMs who have, how they done it and how the RDM class is designed, you know the important stuff.

I don't have to level MNK to know it isn't very good with elemental magic.

Lyltiao wrote:
If you wanna debate how good RDM is at farming trash mobs or killing low-tier NMs, go find somebody else's time to waste.


That was never the intent. You're blinded by your own confusion.

cidabahumut wrote:
Oh for @#%^'s sake. This is why I hate every other Red Mage I meet. You're all living with this delusion that Red Mage in FFXI is the same Red Mage as in every other offline Final Fantasy game.

It's not.

Wake the @#%^ up and come to terms with that cold harsh reality or go level a job that's better suited to what you're looking for.


I can't speak for every Final Fantasy game because I haven't played them all, just every single Final Fantasy game I've ever played to include FFXI.

You're the only delusional person here. Not only is it blatantly described as such by SE, it's abilities, spells, traits, etc. all support that. So... uh... I think you should reconsider coming back to reality...The grass IS greener over here.
#154 Jul 06 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Wait, so are you going to put some words to that challenge or just talk ish? You haven't said anything to support the nonsense that you're referencing. So either get to 'splainin or STFU.


I really don't know how to respond to this. What I will say, is that RDM's offensive capabilities have very little to do with what makes them the best solo job; that only matters when you have a time limit of some sort hanging over your head. What really makes RDM stand above every other soloing job is the sheer amount of defense they can pile on compared to the rest. They possess a wide variety of defensive Enhancing/Enfeebling magic, some of which is RDM exclusive. Other jobs get some of the spells, but RDM is the only one that gets access to them all from their main job, which means they can use /NIN for access to the single best form of damage mitigation in the game; Utsusemi. Add to that ridiculously high amounts of Fast Cast, floored recasts, access to PDT/MDT-50% sets, elemental resist builds, intimidation builds, spell interrupt- builds... the list goes on.

In other words, if you think that a BLM in possession of Convert/Refresh can solo the same **** a RDM can, and even do it better, you are ******* stupid and haven't the slightest clue what your professed main job is capable of.

There, did i miss anything?
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#155 Jul 06 2011 at 10:05 PM Rating: Default
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it isn't completely useless, it is mostly useless. In the sense RDM is good for really 2 things, Brewing, id say its the second strongest in the game no doubt, eiter chainspell brew, or Sang Blade brew, and of course outside abyssea, where enfeebles mean something, and refresh matters (looking at voidwatch mostly).

RDM enffeebles should be completely removed from that list, and replaced with a proper stance function, similar to DNC's Fan Dance/Saber Dance, SCH's LA/BA. Instead inversly supporting and nerfing frontline ability, and backline ability. The enfeeble spells should be scrolls, with the options at 99 (if) supporting further options with specfic spell categories, offering bonuses to any of healing, enfeebling, enhancing, and elemental. With the other 2 designed around Combat and Defenses.

Don't try and play little games with, Ive shred my fair share of ideas, and made my disagreement and agreements on others. Lots of times, don't sit there and pretend I haven't been rated to subdefault and back based on my opinions both shared and opinionated on.

The fact of the matter is, RDM in the current game is bad, really bad, while it is fun to play, it is not beneficial to other, and outside of fun factor not beneficial to your self.

You mentioned about me get 5:3 on my DNC, that is important, the faster I get **** done that I want/need to, the more time I have to **** around on my RDM and farm dark rings, solo dyna currency, duo ancient currency, all stuff I also like to do that my RDM is great in. The faster I get done with mundane things like seals, and nm farms, the quicker I can go do other ****.

RDM is crap inside of abyssea, just deal with, the job is not designed abyssea friendly. Sure it might be able to play hero and get 3 procs here and there, turn some heads etc. But thats rare, and about the only thing RDM offers, all be it impractically.

No ive gone over the pro's and con's enough, RDM just has to many red flags in abyssea. It sucks, but I chose to level stuff that helps reduce mine and others time in abyssea, so we can do things we like to do.
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#156 Jul 07 2011 at 3:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh for @#%^'s sake. This is why I hate every other Red Mage I meet. You're all living with this delusion that Red Mage in FFXI is the same Red Mage as in every other offline Final Fantasy game.

It's not.

Wake the @#%^ up and come to terms with that cold harsh reality or go level a job that's better suited to what you're looking for.


Perhaps the irony of this is when it comes to RDMs trying to forge a unique identity fitting for the FFXI universe, they're shot down by naysayers using that very standard, or the typical, "Jack Of All Trades, Master Of NoneSuck At Them All" line. While Abyssea has somewhat shifted the perception of a specialist, people seeking the best of the best at any given moment isn't a new thing. I still believe RDM can be its own kind of specialist, but if 76-90 has been any indication, SE has zero motivation in pulling that off.

As is, I can't really fault people who don't favor RDM now and outright consider them a bandwagoner if they opted to WHM for healing, BLM for nuking, or... well, **** near anything else for meleeing. If you sold/dropped all your gear for it? Yeah. However, playing the whole rdm4lyfe card and never playing anything else has the bad side effect of making you look like a social douche nozzle if you have a finger on even the slightest pulse of current game trends. It's not useless, but not as useful, and in FFXI speak, not as useful is tantamount to suck the moment you leave a circle of accepting friends.
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#157 Jul 07 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
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Hypothetical situation. Just putting that out there.

Lets assume you and a friend have decided to go seal farming. He Being a THF and you being a RDM or BLM.

Red Mage Pros.
- 2/7 elemental procs
- HEALS
- HASTE
- enfeebles
- DIA III
- damage nukes

/BLM
WARP II
4/7 dark PROCS

/WHM
-na's
-divine seal
-3/7 Light Procs.

/WHM clearly looks like the winner, all that stuff is very important in a 2 man team against some nasty status effect mobs. 3 New procs.

VS this option
BLM/WHM

-4/7 Elemental nukes 3/7 Light 3/7 Dark PROCS
-HEALS
-HASTE
-enfeebles
-damage nukes

and the most important thing RDM/WHM doesn't get

WARP II.

The jobs are pretty close with BLM notably only with a 2 proc advantage. However RDM/WHM you are stuck there, or heading back from a tele. BLM has D2, which is instant access to Jeuno for pop items, or in some cases sub job change to /BRD or /RDM for that additional stingy proc. The THF uses pots in the short time you are away.

That is tons of time spent, and something RDM can not really do in a practical capacity. Much less should they waste their time doing it since they are missing 2 elemental procs anyway.

In the Time Factor vs Procs
BLM wins 4/7 elemental procs

In the Secondary Usefulness category
BLM wins being able to get 2 additional procs in relatively minimal time, as well as Pop Item access cutting out farming time.

RDM simply can not compete and that is the cold truth, BLM right trumps RDM and is way more useful to any group 2 man +, It can heal the same as a RDM, has the same secondary tools, with more procs, and more utility.


On a completely unrelated note, I want to see Demi line of spells, Magic based on Enfeebling skill, Dots the Target for helix like damage damage and reduces all stats for a time. I think DoT's based on enfeebling would be the way to go. Demi Ultima Gravity 2 (add a dot to it since everything is immune to it anyway).

I think that would be badass, since RDM is a soloboat, why not let it solo faster, so RDM's can do their own things. More Dots do it SE.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 11:09am by rdmcandie
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#158 Jul 07 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Default
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I'd add Stun to the list of things you get from /BLM.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#159 Jul 07 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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Thats true, I did forget stun.
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#160 Jul 07 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
Wait, so are you going to put some words to that challenge or just talk ish? You haven't said anything to support the nonsense that you're referencing. So either get to 'splainin or STFU.


I really don't know how to respond to this. What I will say, is that RDM's offensive capabilities have very little to do with what makes them the best solo job; that only matters when you have a time limit of some sort hanging over your head. What really makes RDM stand above every other soloing job is the sheer amount of defense they can pile on compared to the rest. They possess a wide variety of defensive Enhancing/Enfeebling magic, some of which is RDM exclusive. Other jobs get some of the spells, but RDM is the only one that gets access to them all from their main job, which means they can use /NIN for access to the single best form of damage mitigation in the game; Utsusemi. Add to that ridiculously high amounts of Fast Cast, floored recasts, access to PDT/MDT-50% sets, elemental resist builds, intimidation builds, spell interrupt- builds... the list goes on.

In other words, if you think that a BLM in possession of Convert/Refresh can solo the same sh*t a RDM can, and even do it better, you are @#%^ing stupid and haven't the slightest clue what your professed main job is capable of.

There, did i miss anything?


Yes, like how RDM is/was the Master of Solo.

First off, are you differentiating a job being a Master of something vs a job being the best choice? If not, then we can stop here because I am. Those are two completely different concepts. I'll concede that RDM is an idea job for solo, but I will not say that it is a "master of solo". If I had to give that title to someone, it would be BST.

Secondly, so your argument is on defense? IIRC, the only natively RDM defense bonus has been phalanx. Even that can be subbed.

Enfeebling? HA.. So does enfeebling matter now or not? People have always been arguing against enfeebling as it is either immune or have no problem landing, nothing in the middle.

Enhancing: I'll give this more credit than anything else, but still doesn't put RDM in the category you desire. The only RDM spell that I can think of is once again refresh.

As for not knowing about my main job, I'm merely comparing on strategy back in the Avesta days. I'm not sure if anything has changed, but in the videos that I've seen, it consisted of DoT, kite, nuke. Given that strategy, the only thing that favored RDM was refresh/convert. Now, if you're soloing differently, i.e. melee, then of course BLM will not compare.

Seriha wrote:
It's not useless, but not as useful, and in FFXI speak, not as useful is tantamount to suck the moment you leave a circle of accepting friends.


And that my friend, is a personal problem. RCD claims to have gone against the crowd with RDM melee his entire career. A RDM with a sword was instantly deemed a waste of bandwidth, so how is it now that he all of the sudden "cares" what others might think of him? He doesn't, before he was able to pull it off solely because of RDM was in demand. Now that RDM isn't in demand anymore AND he can't kill those extra 2 mobs, he wants to move to another job. That makes him a band wagoner.

That's perfectly fine and no one cares that he does such, but to claim it's "useless", because it isn't the best in something demonstrates a lack of understanding what a RDM is. As a result, it appears that you were just playing RDM because it was "in". Else, you should have realized these same downfalls of RDM years ago.

RCD wrote:
Hypothetical situation. Just putting that out there.

Lets assume you and a friend have decided to go seal farming. He Being a THF and you being a RDM or BLM.


No one is saying that RDM outweighs anything. The point is, there are scenarios where you could be a RDM and fulfill whatever role you were invited to fill. Will you be the best at it? No. That's always been the case with RDM. How are you just figuring that out now? Why did it take you so long to realize that?
#161 Jul 07 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:

Yes, like how RDM is/was the Master of Solo.

First off, are you differentiating a job being a Master of something vs a job being the best choice? If not, then we can stop here because I am. Those are two completely different concepts.

You're going to need to define those two concepts and be very specific with your wording, because they appear synonymous.

Almalieque wrote:

No one is saying that RDM outweighs anything. The point is, there are scenarios where you could be a RDM and fulfill whatever role you were invited to fill. Will you be the best at it? No. That's always been the case with RDM. How are you just figuring that out now? Why did it take you so long to realize that?

The problem stems from a dwindling number of roles RDM can fill in the current metagame, as well as some roles being outright eliminated.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#162 Jul 07 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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And that my friend, is a personal problem. RCD claims to have gone against the crowd with RDM melee his entire career. A RDM with a sword was instantly deemed a waste of bandwidth, so how is it now that he all of the sudden "cares" what others might think of him?


Because even in that capacity I was still providing some use to the party, Cure 4 was a big player, Refresh was pretty well a must have. Opening Skillchains for bigger DD to close with Black Mages and myself MABing them. Lots of that faded away and eventually RDM became the haste refresh bot with Cure 4 when the tank got DA'd. The simple matter of fact, none of what RDM offers now is really of any use. Any /WHM can fill the extra haste cure 4 role refresh isn't even worth mentioning. RDM does not offer an practical solution to anything.

Quote:
No one is saying that RDM outweighs anything. The point is, there are scenarios where you could be a RDM and fulfill whatever role you were invited to fill.
That is rich ok come proc for us Alma, oh you only have 2 procs, we need a BLM, come heal for us, oh you only have cure 4 we really need cure 5 this guy can hit like a truck, come enfeeble for us....ha ha sike we don't need enfeebles, oh great melee you have 3 (more depending on sub.) potential procs, Ill go get on my DRK or PLD then we'll have more covered.

RDM can not fullfill any role, it is useful in a small amount of situations and thats it.

Please stop living in a fantasy world.

The only thing I would invite a RDM for now is to hold extra pop items.






Edited, Jul 7th 2011 5:27pm by rdmcandie
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#163 Jul 07 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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I just bought a wireless card for my PC and I'm set to start playing again today.

Honest question now...... what's the cheapest bandwagon job for an 8-year career RDM to start fresh with?
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#164 Jul 07 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Default
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probably whm since you have most of the relevant spells, and AM and T4's are gettin pretty costly if you go BLM. If mine wasn't already at 60 id likely have not touched it.
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#165 Jul 07 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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I was thinking the same thing before you replied, that or BLU.
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#166 Jul 07 2011 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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WHM would definitely be the faster track to getting back on your feet. BLU will at least hamper your progress in both skilling up and farming spells, and is ultimately more gear dependent to play well. Light Staff and Noble's is an easy start for WHM, with Empyrean upgrades coming easily enough if you try for 'em. Honestly, the hardest thing for a WHM to get, aside from a Roundel Earring, would be a Cure Potency magian staff. ******* lightsday/weather.

While not "the best" atma combo when I'm on WHM, I use Minikin, Rescuer, and Ambition. 15 Refresh, a good Fast Cast bump on top of Cure Clogs/Merits/other gear, 10% cure potency, and a movement speed boost (***** you, Tiamat). The downside of these atmas for a fresh starter would be Rescuer requiring a Dynamis-Xarc clear and Ambition beating ASA.

For BLU, my basic combo is usually Minikin, Razed Ruin, and Voracious Violet. However, BLU has so many other niche builds that things like Cosmos, Blinding Horn, Lion, Ultimate, and so on can creep up on you on as needs. You can't really go wrong with either job once you have them up to speed, though.
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#167 Jul 07 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Cid wrote:

You're going to need to define those two concepts and be very specific with your wording, because they appear synonymous.


Ok, no problem. First I'll start off using RL examples, then transition to FFXI terms.

When people say that someone is a "Master" of something, they are referring to that person being an expert at that something. In other words, if it can be done, he can do it or learn to do so relatively quickly.

People can argue that Michael Jordan has mastered Basketball. Now take that concept of MJ and his basketball skills. Now take you and your friends playing ball on the court and you're short of one person. You look at the remaining people left wanting to play. Since you're want to win, you're going to pick the best person of the remaining people. Now, unless that person has skills relatively close to MJ, you can not call your friend a Master of Basketball. He's simply just the best choice to pick out of the bunch to choose from.

Now, in reference to FFXI, I'll admit that a lot has changed since the tier II merits, but that only references the focuses of RDM in the history of RDM.

If you look at every single job in the game with their mastery and compare it to RDM and it's supposedly "mastery", you will see a HUGE difference.

Let's just take a look at WHM and BLM.

There's basic things to take in consideration.

Premier spells - Spells that the job gets first.
Job Only Spells - Self explanatory
Job abilities - abilities that support a mastery
Job traits- traits that support a mastery
gear- gear that supports a mastery

Let's take a look at some of these.

For WHM: IIRC, WHM is premier for every healing/aiding spell. Most of those are WHM only and receives healing abilities/traits starting at level 15.

For BLM: IIRC, BLM is premier for every elemental spell for the exception of a few Tier IV spells. All AoE elemental spells are BLM only and receives traits/abilities as low as level 15.

Now, for the lovely RDM.

Premier spells: IIRC-Dia/Dia II,
Job only: IIRC- phalanx, gravity, level 75 tier II spells(blind, slow, paralyze, dia, bio, phalanx)... BLM even has an entire elemental enfeebling spells which is more than what RDM has.

Job abilities- Convert level 40, Composure level 50 (added in years later) Saboteur level 83.
Job traits- Various traits from MAB, MDB,Clear Mind, Fast cast and later added traits, tranquil heart, shield mastery.

As you can see, no act of specialty didn't start occurring till years after RDM was about. Even then, none of that doesn't start till AFTER level 75, where all of the TRUE masters stick out from the first 20 levels.

The only solo benefiting spell that is premier to RDM is refresh. All of the other spells are premier to other jobs, which means RDM isn't the MASTER of them. So, how can you label a job who hasn't mastered anything in reference to soloing except for refresh and convert to be the Master of it?

The answer: it isn't. RDM is your friend on the court that isn't a Michael Jordan, but he's better than other competition.
Gear- Relic/AF gear support various skills.


The bottom line is that RDM is not the Master of Solo, but was just an idea job for the job. The reality is, many other jobs could/can solo NMs as well. People just flocked to RDM for the same reason why RCD dumped RDM.
#168 Jul 07 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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BLU is also another good Choice but is very time consuming. WHM is probably the easiest.


Quote:
People just flocked to RDM for the same reason why RCD dumped RDM.


But i didn't dump RDM, I simply leveled jobs that allow me to finish other **** faster so I can get more use from my RDM. I am glad you still fail hard at reading Alma. Unfortunately outside of brewing (really any job is good at this) RDM has no use inside abyssea. Now outside of abyssea it does....(of course 90% of outside abyssea can be solo'd by pretty much any job now.)

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 8:20pm by rdmcandie
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#169 Jul 07 2011 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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RCD wrote:
Because even in that capacity I was still providing some use to the party, Cure 4 was a big player, Refresh was pretty well a must have. Opening Skillchains for bigger DD to close with Black Mages and myself MABing them. Lots of that faded away and eventually RDM became the haste refresh bot with Cure 4 when the tank got DA'd. The simple matter of fact, none of what RDM offers now is really of any use. Any /WHM can fill the extra haste cure 4 role refresh isn't even worth mentioning. RDM does not offer an practical solution to anything.


I'm not sure who you think you're fooling.

During the time when people were doing skill chains and magic bursts, it was a sin for a RDM to pull out their sword. It didn't matter how much damage you were adding. The argument was that you weren't balancing out your healing/link controlling/enfeebling duties/etc and that no one has EVER seen a RDM that was able to balance them. In their eyes, you weren't doing anything but taking away from your "Mage duties". If you had your sword out, you were missing out from the light staff, you were feeding TP to the mobs, you weren't doing this, you were doing that and the list went on and on.

What really happened is that you convinced yourself that you were contributing because you were doing more than what you were expected to do. The reality is, the only reason why you weren't booted was because you were a RDM. I once was meleing and main healing, I got dc'd and was instantly replaced. I asked them to tell me what I did wrong. Did I miss a haste? Did I miss a cure? The only explanation was that I pulled out my sword. They even admitted after I pointed that out that I was doing my job.

During the TP burn phase of FFXI, RDM was still able to do what you were doing with skill chains and Magic Bursts, it just became much more difficult. Now that everyone has Refresh and Haste, it makes it that much easier to continue what you were doing all along. When my LS farm TE and light, I would close a skill chain with a Melee for 1k+ damage immediately followed by a 600+ MB. That is NO DIFFERENT than the what you were doing all along. So, I ask, why the change of heart?

RCD wrote:
That is rich ok come proc for us Alma, oh you only have 2 procs, we need a BLM, come heal for us, oh you only have cure 4 we really need cure 5 this guy can hit like a truck, come enfeeble for us....ha ha sike we don't need enfeebles, oh great melee you have 3 (more depending on sub.) potential procs, Ill go get on my DRK or PLD then we'll have more covered.

RDM can not fullfill any role, it is useful in a small amount of situations and thats it.

Please stop living in a fantasy world.

The only thing I would invite a RDM for now is to hold extra pop items.


You're right, I must have being fantasizing my role in my LS. I do recall curing/raising/nuking/etc in my LS. Could my WHM done a better job? Of course, but not only does that not take away from my input, that has ALWAYS been the case. WHM was always a better healer.

You talk about RDM being useless. There's been plenty of NMs that my LS would fight where at least 50% of the people are just standing around. There's like 4 people on the NM and everyone else is just there, doing absolutely nothing. Does my LS suck? Probably, I haven't been playing, but the point is that everyone there will not be the BEST desired job, which leads me to the next point.

*******************************************************************

The whole purpose of adding procs was to allow every job to have more of a role, to get rid of the TP burns that only allowed the most uberest DDs, haste-bot RDM and ***** BRDs. If you stop inviting/playing jobs because they don't have the "most possible procs", you're reinventing the same exact scenario that SE was trying to get away from in the first place and people openly and constantly complained about.

Fortunately, SE made it so people can low-man to prevent people like you from pigeon holing the game to only specific jobs again.

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#170 Jul 07 2011 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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RCD wrote:
But i didn't dump RDM, I simply leveled jobs that allow me to finish other sh*t faster so I can get more use from my RDM. I am glad you still fail hard at reading Alma. Unfortunately outside of brewing (really any job is good at this) RDM has no use inside abyssea. Now outside of abyssea it does....(of course 90% of outside abyssea can be solo'd by pretty much any job now.)


So if you still play with a job that is "useless", then what's your point? How is it "smart" to play with BLU or DNC instead of RDM for those 2 extra kills, when you still play with a useless job? Either you don't play with RDM or RDM isn't useless. So which one is it?

Edited, Jul 8th 2011 3:30am by Almalieque
#171 Jul 07 2011 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
lots of stuff


I find your definitions to be a bit contrived and skewed to support your argument, but even using your own definitions I find the conclusions you draw to be even more skewed. You say all the "masters" break away and start showing their stuff by level 20, yet here's RDM waltzing in with Gravity at level 21 but not making the cut for some reason.

I disagree with your definition and conclusion in the strongest possible terms. I don't think we have anything more to discuss unless we want to just hurl insults at each other for another few pages.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#172 Jul 07 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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cidbahamut wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
lots of stuff


I find your definitions to be a bit contrived and skewed to support your argument, but even using your own definitions I find the conclusions you draw to be even more skewed. You say all the "masters" break away and start showing their stuff by level 20, yet here's RDM waltzing in with Gravity at level 21 but not making the cut for some reason.

I disagree with your definition and conclusion in the strongest possible terms. I don't think we have anything more to discuss unless we want to just hurl insults at each other for another few pages.


Way to completely misunderstand. I just said level 20 as an example and in any case, both WHM and BLM get their seals at level 15. RDM get's it's seal at level 83. RDM starts the game off with dia at level 1, so obviously I wasn't discussing a spell. The RDM only and premier spells are so far apart that even if RDM had them all under the level of 10, it wouldn't make a difference.

As a result, Gravity being level 21 doesn't change anything. RDM simply isn't the "master" in anything. I didn't just randomly pick stuff out to support my claim.

Those are what make the jobs what they are. That's why MNKs had a hissy fit when PUPs had an upgrade in hand-to-hand. Why? Because MNKs were supposed to be the "Masters" of Hand to Hand combat.

There might be a few exceptions, such as the shift in NIN to tank, but for the most part, every job fits this. I say "Most", because I'm not going to look up every job.

You can live in denial all you want, but you can't claim that RDM is a "Master" in anything if he learns every spell after another job and only has 2 job only enfeebling spells in a span of 75 levels with BLM having at least 6.

I'm not skewing anything. I gave credit that after the implementation of Tier II merits, there was a slight shift of focus.
#173 Jul 07 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think you understand the words you are using.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#174 Jul 08 2011 at 1:23 AM Rating: Default
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I don't think you understand the words you are using.


She doesn't understand a ******* thing about the game, and thinks arguing semantics (poorly) is a good way of distracting from that. Seriously, there's a 'substantial difference' between the 'master' of something, and the 'best choice' for something? BST is the 'master' of soloing, moreso than RDM? Dear lord, that is some of the stupidest sh*t I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

You think the concept of defensed consists of just Phalanx and Protect? No, defense is a broad category that encompasses many, many things. Kiting? Defensive. Paralyze? Defensive. Utsusemi? Defensive. ****, even Convert can be considered defensive in some situations. As for Enfeebling magic? The people ******** about how worthless enfeebling magic is are talking about party situations in Abyssea where you have a tank and a WHM; and yes, they are quite right, enfeebling magic very rarely makes or breaks those fights given baseline competence/gear/atmas from the tank/mage. As for soloing? If you think Slow, Paralyze, Addle, Poison, and Bio are worthless, well, no, they are essential. There's a lot of fights where kiting is either worthless or even counterproductive; you win by straight-tanking with shadows and nuking after casting Ichi when Ni will be up in time. Without enfeebles, nope, you die. Or did you know that the casting speed down part of Addle can make the difference between outrunning a spell and getting killed? No, I'm guessing not.

Quote:
You can live in denial all you want, but you can't claim that RDM is a "Master" in anything if he learns every spell after another job and only has 2 job only enfeebling spells in a span of 75 levels with BLM having at least 6.


See, this is what I'm talking about. You're looking at the spell list and drawing your conclusions. The spell list! Not taking into account Fast Cast V, Magic Attack/Defense Bonus, unparalleled subjob flexibility, or any of the bonuses afforded to RDM by the wide variety of powerful gear available to it. The spell list! You think the fact that most of RDM's spells are shared amongst the 19 other jobs matters, and fail to notice that RDM is the only one that possesses them all from their main job.

The spell list!!!

You keep confusing obvious sh*t like this, and you wonder why I say you're clueless.

To sum it up, If this is what you truly believe:

Quote:
As for not knowing about my main job, I'm merely comparing on strategy back in the Avesta days. I'm not sure if anything has changed, but in the videos that I've seen, it consisted of DoT, kite, nuke. Given that strategy, the only thing that favored RDM was refresh/convert. Now, if you're soloing differently, i.e. melee, then of course BLM will not compare.


...then you don't know a god **** thing about how a competent RDM operates.

Alma, you can type as many long-winded diatribes in which you spin so hard I get dizzy just reading it as you want, but in the end, you're still @#%^ing retarded.

Edited, Jul 8th 2011 3:39am by LyltiaofLakshmi

Edited, Jul 8th 2011 3:55am by LyltiaofLakshmi
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#175 Jul 08 2011 at 1:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

So if you still play with a job that is "useless", then what's your point? How is it "smart" to play with BLU or DNC instead of RDM for those 2 extra kills, when you still play with a useless job? Either you don't play with RDM or RDM isn't useless. So which one is it?


No i don't play a job that is useless in ABYSSEA anymore. Outside of abyssea everything I have is useful, RDM is one of the most useful jobs to bring to void watch. It lowers incoming damage (enfeebles) it increases outgoing damage (haste dia refreshII) it Directly Heals and Indirectly heals (RefreshII). Anyone who does not bring a RDM to a NON-ABYSSEA related event is stupid. Anyone who honestly thinks they contribute on RDM in Abyssea is stupid.

You know what I was stupid once too, it happens, but you can try as much as you want to make this about me, in the end Alma, it is you and Hyrist who are the douchebags, leeches. Its cool live with you RDM hardon by my calcs of how you both talk about this game, you have at least another 3 years before you realize that RDM is mostly useless. **** when I first played RDM it was the most useless job in the game (but I doubt you recall RDM with Divine magic and not its other tricks.) Honestly I am quite confident in saying you know nothing of the game, **** you can't even read plain english for Christ sakes.
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#176 Jul 08 2011 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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I guess it's been a while since the soloist ******** sprung up.

Hint: There is no best soloist, as different mobs can require different tactics where even RDM's bag of tricks mean nothing.
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