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#302 Jul 12 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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cidbahamut wrote:
I just gave you an answer.


Quote it, because I must have missed it. You made very specific claims about my statements. I asked you to specifically point out where in my statements that support your claims.

The only thing I saw was "context". Not only was context not in your claim, it has nothing to do with the other words of your claim. Furthermore, you stated yourself the exact context of my statements, so clearly it has nothing to do with context. Even further furthermore, even if it were about context, you didn't specify exactly what part of those statements were missing "context". That's ignoring the fact that you already stated the context of my statements prior. So, you obviously got the "context" or you wouldn't be able to come to that conclusion.

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. we'll just accept that as the fact that you were just running off at the mouth with no substance. Then I can answer your original question. Is that ok with you?
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#303 Jul 12 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
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Ask your question and quote the relevant text to which you are referring. I'll try to give you an answer.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#304 Jul 12 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Are you two quite done yet?

This conversation has gone so far off topic that I'm surprised an Admin hasn't come in and locked it yet.

You're not going to convince each other of anything, and you two seem more or less content on just slinging insults at each other. Take it to private messages if you're that hung up on one another. Otherwise, get over it. There's better things to discuss than debating who can lap the circular argument the fastest.
#305 Jul 12 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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Well that was pretty much the last time I try to defend RDMs EVER. I seriously don't know what came over me, thinking that was a good idea.
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#306 Jul 12 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Erecia wrote:
Well that was pretty much the last time I try to defend RDMs EVER. I seriously don't know what came over me, thinking that was a good idea.


I don't know what you were expecting. Arguing incessantly is practically RDM's national sport. If we can agree on anything, it's only that we can't agree on anything.
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#307 Jul 12 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I said it in the beginning of the thread.

RDM's will debate the shade of blue in the sky if the mood suits them. Even I get dragged into simple differences as far as literary tone.

Nor will you ever convince stubborn players to change their opinions simply by arguing with each other in forums. Especially when you're debating on paper instead of what's actually happening in game.

But this is above and beyond, even for RDM forums. Seriously, the discussion wasn't worth this level of volatile behavior, on any of our parts, and I'm sorry for my part in it, really.
#308 Jul 12 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aliekber wrote:
If we can agree on anything, it's only that we can't agree on anything.
I don't agree with that!
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#309 Jul 12 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
If we can agree on anything, it's only that we can't agree on anything.
I don't agree with that!


So's your face!
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
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#310 Jul 12 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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cidbahamut wrote:
Ask your question and quote the relevant text to which you are referring. I'll try to give you an answer.


Ok, first you claimed that my original arguments weren't articulated well and attempted to sum it up in your own words below.

CID wrote:
Now here's the definition you've been using: A master of X is a job that SE thought everyone would use to accomplish X, regardless of whether or not the game mechanics, metagame or class design actually supports it.

Did I hit the nail on the head there, or would you like to do a better job of articulating your position?


I countered to say that wasn't it but this below.

Almalieque wrote:
My argument is that SE designed jobs to fulfill certain roles, primarily to be unique. How the players decide to play the jobs is up to them. I would argue that SE never meant to pigeon hole a specific job into a specific game play. Doing so defeats the purpose of having multiple jobs with various traits, abilities, skills, etc. I would argue that they prefer diversity, which is the whole reason of Abyssea procs.


Instead of admitting the difference you claimed that they were the same by saying below..

Cid wrote:
So basically yes, the summary I gave was the definition you subscribe to.


I responded to you by demonstrating the difference and asking you to tell me what was so poorly articulated that you couldn't see the difference in the quotes below.

Almalieque wrote:
Those two statements are saying the exact opposite. Your statement says that SE designed jobs to do certain things REGARDLESS of anything. That is implying that PLDs should be tanks in any situation. I'm arguing the exact opposite. My statement says that SE designed jobs to fulfill certain roles (to guarantee that a job is able to fulfill it) but prefers diversity. Which means, PLD is designed to be the tank, but promotes diversity upon other jobs to be able to tank.

I've stated numerous of times that what the job was designed to do and how the job is played are two completely different things. That is how it's possible to be the "master" of something but not the most desired. The most desired can/will change as the game change and people do different things. That doesn't have any effect on which job was designed to fulfill a role and vice versa. Just because people decide to chain weak VT mobs instead of heavy hitting IT+ shadow killing mobs, doesn't magically make NINs a "Master" of tanking. That's determined by the design of the job. How you play the game determines which job is best suited for the mission.

All you have done is proven my point.
I would love for you to try to explain how that was poorly articulated. What else could I have done?


After that explanation, you responded with the comment of arguing with a very verbose wall. That's why I asked in a very short response if you understood the difference of the statements or not, in the text below.

Almnalieque wrote:


Well, do you not see the difference in the two statements?
1. SE designs a job for people to play it a certain way regardless of anything.

VS

2. SE designs a job to ensure that at least one job is able to fulfill in a certain role, but promotes diversity.


This is when you responded with the following below
Cid wrote:
You lack clarity.

I'm no longer certain of what we're even arguing anymore, such is your cavalcade of verbosity and penchant for obfuscation.

State your terms with extreme brevity that we might begin our cycle of parry and riposte anew.


So, I've been asking you to support those claims to show me what part of those two statements are verbose, obfuscated and without clarity?

Till now, you've been +1'ing your trolling desire. So are you going to answer the question or not?
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

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#311 Jul 12 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Are you two quite done yet?

This conversation has gone so far off topic that I'm surprised an Admin hasn't come in and locked it yet.

You're not going to convince each other of anything, and you two seem more or less content on just slinging insults at each other. Take it to private messages if you're that hung up on one another. Otherwise, get over it. There's better things to discuss than debating who can lap the circular argument the fastest.


While in concept you're right, we're actually not even trying to convince anyone of anything at this point. I'm simply asking a question and Cid is trying to come up with clever ways not to answer the question. Furthermore, it's not off topic as the statements in reference to is over what has been discussed this entire thread, that RDM is a generalist job.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#312 Jul 12 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aliekber wrote:
SunriderRagnarok wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
If we can agree on anything, it's only that we can't agree on anything.
I don't agree with that!


So's your face!

Counterpoint: your mom!
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#313 Jul 12 2011 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Interjection: For all you know, his mom might be hot.


@Alma

Let it go, (what would be the appropriate pet name here, hun? Ma'am, Lady? Casey Jones: "Ah, Princess!" ). The discussion isn't worth continuing.
#314 Jul 12 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Interjection: For all you know, his mom might be hot.


@Alma

Let it go, (what would be the appropriate pet name here, hun? Ma'am, Lady? Casey Jones: "Ah, Princess!" ). The discussion isn't worth continuing.


Of course I wont let it go, besides I don't take too kindly being called female nick names, especially from dudes..
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#315 Jul 12 2011 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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Your loss. Typically it's a sign of familiarity. It's like me calling a guy 'man'.

The argument itself, however, has lost all sense of rhyme or reason. Save yourself the aggravation and effort, and save us the post spam, please.
#316 Jul 12 2011 at 6:25 PM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Your loss. Typically it's a sign of familiarity. It's like me calling a guy 'man'.

The argument itself, however, has lost all sense of rhyme or reason. Save yourself the aggravation and effort, and save us the post spam, please.


The point is, we're no longer in a debate. I'm asking him to answer a question, because I know he's wrong on his claim and he's finding ways to avoid answering the question because he knows he's wrong. There's actually isn't any debating, just him finding various ways in not answering the question.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#317 Jul 12 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, it's just like dealing with my 5 year old nephew; nothing you say will satisfy him, trying to reason with a 5 year old is useless, and yelling just encourages him; best thing to do is let him run around the backyard screaming for an hour til he tires himself out til he's ready for a juicebox and naptime.

I think there's some useful parallels to be drawn here!
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#318 Jul 12 2011 at 7:30 PM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Meh, it's just like dealing with my 5 year old nephew; nothing you say will satisfy him, trying to reason with a 5 year old is useless, and yelling just encourages him; best thing to do is let him run around the backyard screaming for an hour til he tires himself out til he's ready for a juicebox and naptime.

I think there's some useful parallels to be drawn here!


Exactly.. I think Cid went to get his juice box.. good point.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#319 Jul 12 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Who's Cid?
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#320 Jul 13 2011 at 6:08 AM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Who's Cid?

Cidbahamut
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#321 Jul 13 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Default
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Yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere with this. I'm out.
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IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#322 Jul 13 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
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oh you don't talking in circles either?
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#323 Jul 13 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Who's Cid?

Cidbahamut


Not ringing a bell. Does he post here or something?
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#324 Jul 13 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Who's Cid?

Cidbahamut


Not ringing a bell. Does he post here or something?


This might be a shot in the dark, but he might be in one of those squished dark blue bars inbetween some of our posts.
#325 Jul 13 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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cidbahamut wrote:
Yeah, we're not gonna get anywhere with this. I'm out.


That doesn't make sense.. You tell me to present the question with quotes so you'll give me an answer. I do just that and now you're saying that we aren't getting anywhere? If doing what you asked wasn't going to get us anywhere, then why did you ask me to do it in the first place?

Oh, I know.. You thought I wasn't going to be able to quote everything in context to put the onus back on you. So now you're out of tricks to avoid the question, because you know you were wrong and don't want to admit, so you want to quit.

Ok, got it.

RDC wrote:
oh you don't talking in circles either?


If that were the case, he would have just answered the question, which would have moved the conversation forward. This is as opposed to finding "clever" ways to avoid answering the question.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#326 Jul 14 2011 at 12:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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How many times have you mentioned "avoiding the question"?

You sound like a complete lunatic/lawyer.
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#327 Jul 14 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Decent
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IcookPizza wrote:
How many times have you mentioned "avoiding the question"?

You sound like a complete lunatic/lawyer.


Probably because he thinks he is arguing something that is important. I mean a suggestion (all be it a strong one) to level a more useful job, so you can actually make head way on something YOU want, is a logical choice, a suggestion to leve a job tat helps OTHERS (friends, ls mates, randos) is a logical choice. He can argue in his little circles up and down, with as a many as he wants, but in the end RDM is still mostly useless, and anyone who doesn't understand why is a moron.

Hell the only reason Xenith is 1/8 on his RDM hands is because I know him, like him, and respect him. Otherwise, wed have just gone NIN, WHM, BLU, BLM/BRD.
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#328 Jul 14 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Default
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IcookPizza wrote:
How many times have you mentioned "avoiding the question"?

You sound like a complete lunatic/lawyer.


That's a good question. I've mentioned "avoiding the question" as many times as he avoided the question. Funny how you come at me for stating that as opposed to at him for avoiding the question.

RCD wrote:
Probably because he thinks he is arguing something that is important. I mean a suggestion (all be it a strong one) to level a more useful job, so you can actually make head way on something YOU want, is a logical choice, a suggestion to leve a job tat helps OTHERS (friends, ls mates, randos) is a logical choice. He can argue in his little circles up and down, with as a many as he wants, but in the end RDM is still mostly useless, and anyone who doesn't understand why is a moron.

Hell the only reason Xenith is 1/8 on his RDM hands is because I know him, like him, and respect him. Otherwise, wed have just gone NIN, WHM, BLU, BLM/BRD.


Thank you for proving your lack of comprehension as me and Cid weren't talking about RDM being "useless" or not, at all. I guess I'll add "generic unrelated responses" to your list of attributes.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#329 Jul 14 2011 at 6:47 AM Rating: Default
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I apologize for the double post, but I think this deserves it's on post. I was BG and saw a solo thread, didn't realize how many jobs were "Masters of solo's".. Crazy... you all should tell them that they're doing it wrong for soloing these NMs not as RDM!!!!!

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103439-LVL-90-Solos

Edit: Cid, to answer your first question (since you accepted being wrong on my question), no, I do not agree with that statement.

Edited, Jul 14th 2011 2:52pm by Almalieque

Edited, Jul 14th 2011 2:52pm by Almalieque
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#330 Jul 14 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hell the only reason Xenith is 1/8 on his RDM hands is because I'm addicted to mages.
Fixed that for you.

I thought you were past the denial step, judging from your game name.
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#331 Jul 14 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
How many times have you mentioned "avoiding the question"?

You sound like a complete lunatic/lawyer.

That's a good question. I've mentioned "avoiding the question" as many times as he avoided the question. Funny how you come at me for stating that as opposed to at him for avoiding the question.
Oookay okaaay...
I didn't mean to call you a lawyer. Sorry.
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#332 Jul 14 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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IcookPizza wrote:
Quote:
Hell the only reason Xenith is 1/8 on his RDM hands is because I'm addicted to mages.
Fixed that for you.

I thought you were past the denial step, judging from your game name.



LOL touche. Might be going out tonight again if you are interested, Ill look for you if I do.
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#333 Jul 14 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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IcookPizza wrote:
Oookay okaaay...
I didn't mean to call you a lawyer. Sorry.


You could make fun of someone's mom or say they suck, but... A LAWYER?!

What's wrong with you, man?!
#334 Jul 15 2011 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
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so at last my LS has their leech(again), tonight we got a 90 RDM,

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 2:24am by rdmcandie
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#335 Jul 15 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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so at last my LS has their leech(again), tonight we got a 90 RDM,
I leveled my WHM from 37 to 68 last night, and soon, all of you linkshellers will be leeching from me!
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#336 Jul 15 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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nice maybe I won't have to level my WHM now, and I won't need to spend hours getting 24 more bottled pixies.
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