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Race for RedmageFollow

#1 May 29 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Im coming back to FF11 and im planning to make a red mage. Im going full melee so i wanted to know, between hume, elve and taru, which would be the best for that. And also i want to be able to have a decent amount of mp for debuffs though. Thank you
#2 May 30 2011 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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First off, as one of the biggest RDM advocates for Melee, I gotta tell you. RDM's not even close to a pure melee character.

It can melee, and it functions as a good utility in many situations. But you personally are going to find, not just for the sake of your group, but just for simplicity's sake, that sometimes, it's just better to step back for certain fights.

Now, against your normal fodder fair, you shouldn't have much trouble surviving front line at all, the issue comes when knowing what weapons/weaponskills, gear, subjobs, etc, come into play best. But that is an entirely different discussion, one that changes depending on circumstance. Just get use to the idea that sometimes it's good to Mage it up. RDM's meant to be versatile, so you may enjoy it more playing that way.

That said. Right now Race really has little factor. Taru by default has the largest MP pool, and stats differences are really not that large of an issue between races, so there could be a good argument for being a Tarutaru. But really, any race can fair well with Red Mage, especially when Abyssea or later level abilities (Such as Refresh II) come into play.

I'd say make your choice of race off of what you would feel comfortable assuming as your identity the most, not off of negligible mechanics.
#3 May 30 2011 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Red Mage's most crucial responsibilities are magic-based. Tarutaru slightly eases these responsibilities.

However, you'll get the most out of your Red Mage by meleeing when it's appropriate to do so.
If you're willing to go that extra mile, picking Hume will take you couple hundred feet further.
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#4 May 30 2011 at 6:37 AM Rating: Default
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As a RDM who practically meleed his whole way to 90, I am biased towards Elvaan. As mentioned, race really doesn't matter though. There will be times in lower levels where you will feel the difference, but it will all eventually become negligent.
#5 May 30 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll never really understand how people say leveling makes racial differences less of a factor. If anything, they get worse. Sure, RSE is a stopgap in the 30s, but once it's time to jump to AF, Relic, or Empyrean gear, there's no magical racial modifier that equalizes things. Assuming this correct, the following for a RDM/NIN at 90 would represent a Taru and Elvaan.

Taru: 1041 HP, 797 MP, 72 STR, 79 DEX, 72 VIT, 79 AGI, 87 INT, 73 MND, 74 CHR
Elvaan: 1343 HP, 523 MP, 83 STR, 76 DEX, 78 VIT, 70 AGI, 73 INT, 81 MND, 74 CHR

On the physical end, losing out on 11 STR translates to weaker WS and other martial perks. Magically, Elvaan's are losing out on 14 INT for nukes for both damage and accuracy while the taru lose out on some MND for potency with white magic debuffs. The big gap, though, is the MP. If you're swapping gear, an Elvaan is losing out on over 250 MP. That's a couple T3 nukes, cures, hastes, whatever that a can be a factor in endurance fights (especially outside Abyssea without atma crack). Yes, knowing how to manage your MP is important, but a taru who knows how to do that will certainly perform better than the elvaan.
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#6 May 30 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha does list the two extreemes in that case, not sure if Galka has the worst MP pool or not it's been so long since it was last discussed.

But honestly it really just adjusts the playstyle of each RDM. Full Melee, minimal mage, Elvaan does have the best stats (and the highest mnd for White Magic Enfeebles) but again, you pay for it in INT and MP.

I'm bias towards Mithra and Hume. They have the most balanced stats between the two, with Mithra having the higher Dex, which plays more into the melee favor, but those differences are small.

I'd say the safe bet would be Hume, as Mithra is not on the table for you. It just gives you that better rounded feel.
#7 May 30 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Everyone's been focusing on race as if the player is only allowed to play one job.

Red Mage might be the first job you play on, but it will definitely not be the last. ****, you'll possibly decide to go with different or secondary main, something functionally different from RDM.


It's for this reason that racking your brain over the ideal race is pointless.
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#8 Jun 01 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Default
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The only stat that matters in race choice is MP, as it can become HP when needed. Taru RDM's have very little trouble with mana, **** I sit at about 1.1K in my melee gear in abyssea (and tht is /NIN or /DNC), that is more MP the some races (galka elvaan) have in mage gear. The stats are meaningless (Dex STR etc) and HP is hardly an issue (for a class that can heal).

In all honesty Taru is probably the tops choice for any mage role, because of the MP bonus, not to mention in terms of RDM it can nail 1:1 converts with ease, where other races have a harder time.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 3:43pm by rdmcandie
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#9 Jun 02 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Having just returned to vana'diel myself I went with Elvaan. I played Hume before, and I must admit I do enjoy elvann much better. Elvaan excel with str and mnd, whereas humes are "A Jack of All Trades" They are well rounded. In the end it's all a matter of taste.
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#10 Jun 04 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
I'll never really understand how people say leveling makes racial differences less of a factor. If anything, they get worse. Sure, RSE is a stopgap in the 30s, but once it's time to jump to AF, Relic, or Empyrean gear, there's no magical racial modifier that equalizes things. Assuming this correct, the following for a RDM/NIN at 90 would represent a Taru and Elvaan.

Taru: 1041 HP, 797 MP, 72 STR, 79 DEX, 72 VIT, 79 AGI, 87 INT, 73 MND, 74 CHR
Elvaan: 1343 HP, 523 MP, 83 STR, 76 DEX, 78 VIT, 70 AGI, 73 INT, 81 MND, 74 CHR

On the physical end, losing out on 11 STR translates to weaker WS and other martial perks. Magically, Elvaan's are losing out on 14 INT for nukes for both damage and accuracy while the taru lose out on some MND for potency with white magic debuffs. The big gap, though, is the MP. If you're swapping gear, an Elvaan is losing out on over 250 MP. That's a couple T3 nukes, cures, hastes, whatever that a can be a factor in endurance fights (especially outside Abyssea without atma crack). Yes, knowing how to manage your MP is important, but a taru who knows how to do that will certainly perform better than the elvaan.


That's because it doesn't matter unless you're trying to have the absolute highest int/mnd/mp/hp/etc. which extends beyond just natural stats, but in gear, items, food, etc. If you're trying to max/min, then you're stuck with one job on one character playing one style, as you can never max/min everything like both int and mnd.

The reason why I say it matters less as you get up is because as you level you are able obtain the necessary stats to do your job. For example, as a low level, an Elvaan's or Galka's MP puts a greater hindrance on game play. As you level, you obtain more ways to make up for a shortage of mp (refresh, convert, gear, etc). Just because a SMN is sitting on a million mp, it doesn't make you incapable or "short" of mp, just that the SMN has more MP.


So, making a comparison between races on different stats doesn't mean anything unless you're trying to max a particular stat. If your only concern is the ability to do your job, then it doesn't matter.
#11 Jun 05 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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I'm gonna have to put up the age-old ********** is situational" here. All races except perhaps Galka has a shining aspect as RDM, in certain situations. Universally, lets face it, the best race is Taru, with Hume in second. This is largely because of our role in parties and our method of soloing, and Hume is only second-best because they cover all aspects of what a RDM can do.

I have to agree with Sunrider though. Maybe it would've mattered back in 2006, but the game has evolved into game of calculations, which means having all your options open is a necessity. This also includes Job Change. So in the end the strengths of a race can also become a weakness. Ironically though Hume covers that in being a well-balanced race in the first place.
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#12 Jun 08 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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CarthRDM wrote:
I'm gonna have to put up the age-old "sh*t is situational" here. All races except perhaps Galka has a shining aspect as RDM, in certain situations. Universally, lets face it, the best race is Taru, with Hume in second. This is largely because of our role in parties and our method of soloing, and Hume is only second-best because they cover all aspects of what a RDM can do.



I think Hume is the best RDM on paper and this is why.

Tied for 2nd best INT(Mithra)
2nd highest MND behind Elf(Mithra and Taru have low MND)
Tied with Mithra for MP behind Taru
Higher HP than taru which helps live though links/better convert.

So in the mage category, draw your own conclusions.

As for the melee category, this is trickier.

Hume is 3rd in STR(Galka and Elf)
Hume is 3rd in DEX(behind Mithra and Taru)
HP is tied with Mithra in 3rd place.

HP and STR mean more so Galka and Elvaan are the best choice here.

However, if you lump both roles together, Hume comes out on top. Mithra while very close to Hume's in most regards fall short due to weak MND. Taru's have the lowest HP, very low MND, but the highest MP and INT. Elvaans have very low MP, the worst INT and DEX stats, but the highest MND. Galka's are average enough with MND/INT, but they don't do well because of having the lowest MP pool. That's why Humes win the crown in my book. A RDM must have good INT/MND which a Humes does have plus decent HP/MP balance which they have as well.

Best nuker race... Taru, Hume/Mithra, Galka, and lastly Elvaan(Rated Elvaan dead last because they have low MP and terrible INT)

Best healer race..Taru, Hume, Mithra, Elvaan, and Galka. (MP means more than MND so Taru wins over Hume. However, Hume is 2nd place because of a slight MND advantage over Mithra)

Best enfeebler race: Hume, Taru/Mithra, Elvaan, and Galka (This is a tricky one to rate, but Hume's balance of INT/MND trumps everyone else. MND is very important to procs, but you have to figure in MP and INT ratings too.

Best enhancer race: Hume & Elvaan(IE.. AoE stoneskin)

Now before anyone says RSE or whatever, when you get to lv75 and beyond, everyone wears the same stuff. Taru's will always have a nuking and healer advantage thanks to their INT and MP. Now you might ask me why is Hume better when Taru are better nukers and healers. Because the advantage is so slight in those 2 areas that the other stats like HP play into the mix. More potent enfeebles using MND. Honestly though either race is fine, pick your favorite. I just think Hume has all the bases covered. I would hate to be weak in HP or MND on my RDM. The MP boost on Taru doesn't always mean you can use it. HP and MND are used more often especially when solo. Speaking of soloing, cures will have more effect on a Hume because of the VIT/MND calculation compared to a Taru.

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 1:35pm by ShadowedgeFFXI
#13 Jun 08 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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You should pick the race you think looks best in a red hat.

Seriously.
#14Jajuzza, Posted: Jun 08 2011 at 2:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Mp>everything so guess which...
#15 Jun 08 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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Aiyl wrote:
You should pick the race you think looks best in a red hat.

Seriously.


This.. There is no reason to go in details of stats to choose your race. Just pick what looks cool to you and make it work.
#16 Jun 08 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Aiyl wrote:
You should pick the race you think looks best in a red hat.

Seriously.


Or alternatively, pick who looks best in hot pants! :3

That should be put up to a poll.

"Which Female Race looks best in RDM hotpants?"
#17 Jun 08 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Aiyl wrote:
You should pick the race you think looks best in a red hat.

Seriously.


Or alternatively, pick who looks best in hot pants! :3

That should be put up to a poll.

"Which Female Race looks best in RDM hotpants?"

The answer is of course Mithra.
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#18 Jun 08 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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But mithra really need to shave their legs.

I went there!
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#19 Jun 08 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
But mithra really need to shave their legs.

I went there!

ohnoyoudidnt!


For reals though, Elvaan woman, best legs, no question. Hume woman got a little boo-tay, though.
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#20 Jun 08 2011 at 9:38 PM Rating: Default
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Higher HP than taru which helps live though links/better convert.


Agree with mostly all else but this Taru has the easiest time getting 1:1 converts. Which is huge when talking about convert, and since MP is the only stat that truly matters in a race discussion (in particular about a mage class) this gives Taru a large enough advantage to warrant it as best RDM.

While hume is more blanced stat wise, MP is everything when it comes to RDM, even if you are meleeing (even more so since you are in melee gear which often has no +MP stats.

For that reason Taru is statistically the best, however, play what you want, the differeces in the end are so small it isn't worth the time spent talking about it. While Taru might net 200MP more than other races, its 200MP that is seldom needed or used...especially in abyssea. (with ptoper mp conservation, keeping refresh up, and using convert when its ready).
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#21 Jun 09 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
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Higher HP than taru which helps live though links/better convert.


Agree with mostly all else but this Taru has the easiest time getting 1:1 converts. Which is huge when talking about convert, and since MP is the only stat that truly matters in a race discussion (in particular about a mage class) this gives Taru a large enough advantage to warrant it as best RDM.

While hume is more blanced stat wise, MP is everything when it comes to RDM, even if you are meleeing (even more so since you are in melee gear which often has no +MP stats.

For that reason Taru is statistically the best, however, play what you want, the differeces in the end are so small it isn't worth the time spent talking about it. While Taru might net 200MP more than other races, its 200MP that is seldom needed or used...especially in abyssea. (with ptoper mp conservation, keeping refresh up, and using convert when its ready).


Taru's are only statistically better depending on your playing style.
#22 Jun 09 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Default
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Almalieque wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
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Higher HP than taru which helps live though links/better convert.


Agree with mostly all else but this Taru has the easiest time getting 1:1 converts. Which is huge when talking about convert, and since MP is the only stat that truly matters in a race discussion (in particular about a mage class) this gives Taru a large enough advantage to warrant it as best RDM.

While hume is more blanced stat wise, MP is everything when it comes to RDM, even if you are meleeing (even more so since you are in melee gear which often has no +MP stats.

For that reason Taru is statistically the best, however, play what you want, the differeces in the end are so small it isn't worth the time spent talking about it. While Taru might net 200MP more than other races, its 200MP that is seldom needed or used...especially in abyssea. (with ptoper mp conservation, keeping refresh up, and using convert when its ready).


Taru's are only statistically better depending on your playing style.

and as a RDM regardless if you frontline or backline revolves around casting spells. Like I said the bonus is seldom needed, but when you silently wish in the middle of a vert cycle that you had a couple hundred more MP. Then you should have gone with a Taru.
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#23 Jun 09 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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Vert Cycle? What is this Vert Cycle you speak of?

Is that another Atma I should be looking for?



Speaking truthfully, after a certain point in Melee performance, even on RDM, casting obsessively can be HARMFUL to your output. So if you prefer the front line, Taru's extra MP pool really doesn't help at all. Especially after Composure and Enhancing duration buff gear.

****, Convert ratios as it is, only functions until the first gear swap which for me is mere seconds after my first spell afterwards.

And as far as native MP pools go. Refresh II sort of covers the difference for most situations. You'd really have to be over-nuking or chainspell nuking to see the MP pool differences in most cases.

So really no, statistics are placebo. Anyone who knows how to manage their MP well can excel at RDM at any race.

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 10:52pm by Hyrist
#24 Jun 10 2011 at 12:45 AM Rating: Default
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Vert Cycle? What is this Vert Cycle you speak of?

Is that another Atma I should be looking for?



Speaking truthfully, after a certain point in Melee performance, even on RDM, casting obsessively can be HARMFUL to your output. So if you prefer the front line, Taru's extra MP pool really doesn't help at all. Especially after Composure and Enhancing duration buff gear.


1. you are an idiot clearly you have done nothing outside abby yet that is cool but vert is as useful there as it was in sky (if you ever did sky)
2. RDM sucks at personal DD it has for pretty much ever. At best in full melee orientation it can see 80-85% of a true meleee DD. Keeping cycle on them (haste) is more important then anything a RDm could do on its own. Dia and Haste chew MP. RDM is a decent melee but christ man if your not hting and siaing at least you are useless. quit trying to pretend RDM is something it isn't. It has always been a mid midclass DD that uses its MP to make those around it more effcient, it hasn't changed at all.

3. a RSM personal output means ****. PERIOD.
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#25 Jun 10 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds like you took that stab at Taru's personally, did you get punted as a noob, RCD?

You really are easy to troll.

I'm really not going to argue old details. Point being, out of all the jobs with native MP pools, RDM I think is second behind maybe Dark Knight in LEAST Concerned about their max MP.

Using it as an argument for Taru superiority stat wise is silly, in the 'this is how Rog said the word' definition of silly.

It also makes me want to kick the tall podium you're shouting from and answer the age old argument on whether or not Taru's bounce.

You're taking this Waaaaaaay too seriously.
#26 Jun 10 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Using it as an argument for Taru superiority stat wise is silly, in the 'this is how Rog said the word' definition of silly.


Except when Rog made a new RDM after his ban he made a Taru for the very reasons i mentioned. So I doubt his definition of silly applies here.

Edited, Jun 10th 2011 10:14am by rdmcandie
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