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Best Red Mage race.Follow

#52 Apr 19 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
zellbaca wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Kind of like how enmity gear doesn't really help.


His pointy, double-attacking older brother makes him look bad.
It took me 10 mins to realize that was a chainsaw+1 =/
I thought it was a sad cactus and was soooo confused.
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#53 Apr 20 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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CrimsonSage wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
zellbaca wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Kind of like how enmity gear doesn't really help.


His pointy, double-attacking older brother makes him look bad.
It took me 10 mins to realize that was a chainsaw+1 =/
I thought it was a sad cactus and was soooo confused.


Wow, that does look like sh*t. haha...
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#54 Apr 21 2010 at 6:12 AM Rating: Good
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The Psycho wrote:
Honestly, it's not that situational. Unless you absolutely never do anything that requires you to nuke/bind/etc where the extra int helps, or anything where your mp would be stressed, taru is the best race for rdm. Is it the best race? Honestly, the differences between the races for melee jobs is very small, and since the differences between them for mage jobs is relatively much larger for all mage jobs, i'd argue that yes, it is. Of course That doens't mean everyone should just be taru. If you want to play a wide variety of jobs, than hume is a pretty good race, especially if you like melee jobs better than mage jobs. However, arguing that taru is not the best job for rdm is beyond ridiculous. Again, it may not be that much better, depending on how you play, and what you do, but it's always better, if only by a slight margin.


As a melee RDM, I would disagree. Now, I don't spend time doing FFXI-math, so feel free to prove me wrong, but I still claim it's situational.

There are indeed distinct advantages for one race over another for RDM, but at the end it varies on your playing style. Many people level RDM just to merit on. Your race has little to no effect on refresh, haste and cure III. You having to carry extra mp gear doesn't take away from your ability to do your job in certain situations, i.e. merit parties or small groups.

Is Taru the closest "Optimal" job for mages, maybe, but don't pretend that it always matters at the end, because it doesn't. Unless you want to max/min your character, just pick whatever race you want and roll with it.
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#55 Apr 21 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Slamming on a Galka's MP pool is completely ignorant of the fact that an Elvaan's MP pool isn't much bettter and has the worst INT score to boot. And with enough HP/MP conversion gear, Galka actually do just as well as some Taru as they end up being more informed as to what pieces squeeze out that extra MP needed.


Galka can get a 1k/1k convert ratio?
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#56 Apr 21 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Is Taru the closest "Optimal" job for mages, maybe, but don't pretend that it always matters at the end, because it doesn't. Unless you want to max/min your character, just pick whatever race you want and roll with it.


But just by admitting that you can Maximize/Minimize how optimal your character is by choosing a different race is pretty much pointing out what we're saying about Tarutaru being the best.

Sure any job can make due, but were not talking about a passing grade, we're talking about getting all A's.
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#57 Apr 21 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
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For other mage jobs, people can make the case that MP pool isn't so important because all races recover MP at the same rate.

But it's different for an RDM using convert. With a Taru, you can balance out your HP and MP and thus have the most efficient converts, giving you a significant extra amount of MP every 10 minutes.

The other stats aren't really that important. Tarus have insanely high INT but somewhat lower MND--this balances out and doesn't make much difference in my opinion.

The worst races for RDM are Elvaan and Galka, because they are severely lacking in MP, the RDM's most important trait.
#58 Apr 21 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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OrangeFFXI wrote:
The worst races for RDM are Elvaan and Galka, because they are severely lacking in MP ugly, the RDM's most important trait.


FTFY

Edit: totally worth the ratedowns

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 11:23am by Aliekber
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#59 Apr 21 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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OrangeFFXI wrote:
For other mage jobs, people can make the case that MP pool isn't so important because all races recover MP at the same rate.
Until you factor in things like sanction/sigil/blood of vampyr, in which case you do NOT recover mp at the same rate. Also, ugly pendant activates sooner for tarus, and since they have much more mp, it's much more viable to keep it active 100% of the time.

Quote:
But it's different for an RDM using convert. With a Taru, you can balance out your HP and MP and thus have the most efficient converts, giving you a significant extra amount of MP every 10 minutes.
By this logic race matters less for rdm. With my current gear (which admittedly sucks), my taru only has around the same mp for vert as my elvaan had (with very good gear). Of course once i get better gear, i'll have more with my taru, but still, not too much more, and my elvaan could have had an extra 100~ mp if i bothered to uncurse my zfeet/legs, and got some other gear. Humes can usually get better vert sets, because of their higher hp.

Of course only have 100~300 more mp in vert gear than in your lowest gear set is a pretty decent advantage instead of being stuck with 500+ more, and having to cast a spell in full mp gear, and hope it doesn't resist and get you killed. So even still, max mp matters.


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The other stats aren't really that important. Tarus have insanely high INT but somewhat lower MND--this balances out and doesn't make much difference in my opinion.
They don't even come close to balancing out. Taru has 13 more int than elvaan, but only 8 less mnd. Plus, int is 10x more useful than mnd, so yeah. Not even close.
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#60 Apr 21 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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SingBismark wrote:

But just by admitting that you can Maximize/Minimize how optimal your character is by choosing a different race is pretty much pointing out what we're saying about Tarutaru being the best.
Sure any job can make due, but were not talking about a passing grade, we're talking about getting all A's.


The max/min quote was in reference to any job, not just RDM. It doesn't contradict what I've been saying, because it matters what you want to max/min. You can't get "All A's" because there is no one job that maxes out in every stat. So if you want to max out in hp, you wouldn't pick a Taru. Likewise, if you wanted to maximize in mp, you wouldn't pick Galka.

I can honestly say as my playing style, I benefit more from being an Elvaan than a Taru. If I were to engage in an end game LS where I'm nuking/enfeebling ITG mobs, then I would be at a disadvantage.
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#61 Apr 21 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
The max/min quote was in reference to any job, not just RDM. It doesn't contradict what I've been saying, because it matters what you want to max/min. You can't get "All A's" because there is no one job that maxes out in every stat. So if you want to max out in hp, you wouldn't pick a Taru. Likewise, if you wanted to maximize in mp, you wouldn't pick Galka.
Except no one would ever need to max out hp. The only time hp is important is for drk zergs.

Quote:
I can honestly say as my playing style, I benefit more from being an Elvaan than a Taru. If I were to engage in an end game LS where I'm nuking/enfeebling ITG mobs, then I would be at a disadvantage.
You can think you do, but you don't actually. Unless all you do is melee things that don't require any significant amount of mp, then you'd be better off as taru. The difference may not be enough to matter for you, but it'd still be better.
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#62 Apr 21 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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The Psycho wrote:
Except no one would ever need to max out hp. The only time hp is important is for drk zergs.


Devotion would like to say hello to you.... besides that was just an example, there are other stats in the game too you know. Bottom line is, no one race maxes out in every stat. If you're overly concerned about stats, then make your choice of race based on the stats that you deem necessary, else just pick a race.

The Psycho wrote:
You can think you do, but you don't actually. Unless all you do is melee things that don't require any significant amount of mp, then you'd be better off as taru. The difference may not be enough to matter for you, but it'd still be better.


Which is what I do. I am a loner. I don't do end game stuff, (partially due to my schedule and time zone). Most of the mobs that I encounter do not require much mp at all, nor 300+ enfeebling. So that extra +Str and + Mnd is much more beneficial to me. In the events that I'm doing a mission of some sort where the mob is above VT, I'm reduced to a haste/cure bot where enfeebling or nuking isn't priority.

NOW, when I move back to stateside and join an end game LS and actually fight more difficult mobs, then you'll have a point. But so far in the past 7 years I've been playing this game, Elvaan has benefited me more than Taru...

I'm sorry to break your heart....
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#63 Apr 21 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
The Psycho wrote:
Except no one would ever need to max out hp. The only time hp is important is for drk zergs.


Devotion would like to say hello to you....

As a WHM myself, I've never understood this. I see WHMs all the time who talk about a max HP set for Devotion. What's the point of switching to a max HP set and spending MP to cure yourself to full in order to use Devotion?
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#64 Apr 21 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only chewzer wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The Psycho wrote:
Except no one would ever need to max out hp. The only time hp is important is for drk zergs.


Devotion would like to say hello to you....

As a WHM myself, I've never understood this. I see WHMs all the time who talk about a max HP set for Devotion. What's the point of switching to a max HP set and spending MP to cure yourself to full in order to use Devotion?
If you have a lot of mp, but someone else has none, it could be useful.
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#65 Apr 21 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
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As a WHM myself, I've never understood this. I see WHMs all the time who talk about a max HP set for Devotion. What's the point of switching to a max HP set and spending MP to cure yourself to full in order to use Devotion?
If you have a lot of mp, but someone else has none, it could be useful.

You know what? I was thinking of Martyr. Jesus, I need to stop posting on days I'm hung over; I apparently can't think straight.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 6:37pm by chewzer
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#66 Apr 21 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only chewzer wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Quote:
As a WHM myself, I've never understood this. I see WHMs all the time who talk about a max HP set for Devotion. What's the point of switching to a max HP set and spending MP to cure yourself to full in order to use Devotion?
If you have a lot of mp, but someone else has none, it could be useful.

You know what? I was thinking of Martyr. Jesus, I need to stop posting on days I'm hung over; I apparently can't think straight.
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#67 Apr 22 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Default
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Chewzer wrote:
As a WHM myself, I've never understood this. I see WHMs all the time who talk about a max HP set for Devotion Martyr. What's the point of switching to a max HP set and spending MP to cure yourself to full in order to use Devotion Martyr?


Martyr is only really good for the rare case when you don't have ANY mp to cure, or not enough and someone is about to bite the dust. With the ability of convert, that case will be even less that what it is now.

I forget how much hp I usually cure for with Martyr (since its rare), but I think its a free "Cure 4.5". In that case, if you only have enough mp for a cure or cure II, I think it would be better curing yourself and Martyring someone else. This is given the fact that the cure II or cure would probably make up the Hp difference but not do anything to prevent the imminent death.
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#68 Apr 22 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I think it would be better curing yourself and Martyring someone else.
You sir are and idiot :)
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#69 Apr 22 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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The Psycho wrote:
You sir are and idiot :)


Did you read the rest of the post?!?!
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#70 Apr 22 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
The Psycho wrote:
You sir are and idiot :)
Did you read the rest of the post?!?!
Nope, i just happened to only read the second to last sentence, which perfectly demonstrated that you have no @#%^ing clue what you're talking about.

You do realize martyr heals 25% of your hp worth of hp, yes? So you cure yourself for 100 hp, to increase martyr by 25 hp. Yeah, makes perfect @#%^ing sense.

Nice try though.

Seriously, why do people bother arguing about things they can't even take 5 seconds to look up for a definitive answer?

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 6:42pm by ThePsychoticOne
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#71 Apr 22 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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The Psycho wrote:
Nope, i just happened to only read the second to last sentence, which perfectly demonstrated that you have no @#%^ing clue what you're talking about.


I hope you were being sarcastic. Even then, that would question your reading/comprehension

The Psycho wrote:
Seriously, why do people bother arguing about things they can't even take 5 seconds to look up for a definitive answer?


You mean how people don't take the 5 seconds to read a post before making an argument


The Psycho wrote:
You do realize martyr heals 25% of your hp worth of hp, yes? So you cure yourself for 100 hp, to increase martyr by 25 hp. Yeah, makes perfect @#%^ing sense.

Nice try though.


If it's only 25% then you're right.. I hardly ever use that ability. That reduces the only use of Martyr for when you have no mp to use.
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#72 Apr 22 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalieque wrote:
The Psycho wrote:
Nope, i just happened to only read the second to last sentence, which perfectly demonstrated that you have no @#%^ing clue what you're talking about.
I hope you were being sarcastic. Even then, that would question your reading/comprehension
Of course it was.
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#73 Apr 22 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
The Psycho wrote:
You do realize martyr heals 25% of your hp worth of hp, yes? So you cure yourself for 100 hp, to increase martyr by 25 hp. Yeah, makes perfect @#%^ing sense.

Nice try though.


If it's only 25% then you're right.. I hardly ever use that ability. That reduces the only use of Martyr for when you have no mp to use.
It actually takes away 25%, but cures 50%.

Doesn't change the fact that it would be fucking retarded to cure yourself for 100 just to give someone else 50.
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Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#74 Apr 22 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
That reduces the only use of Martyr for when you have no mp to use.

Or silenced.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#75 Apr 22 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only chewzer wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
That reduces the only use of Martyr for when you have no mp to use.

Or silenced.
Or no white magic pathos.
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#76 Apr 22 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Or silenced.


That's what Echo drops are for, unless stuff is hitting the fan and you can't afford that extra few seconds.
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#77 Apr 22 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
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Or silenced.


That's what Echo drops are for, unless stuff is hitting the fan and you can't afford that extra few seconds.

Or muted.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#78 Apr 22 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Chewzer wrote:
Or muted.


That's what Echo drops +1 are for.... >.>
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Demea wrote:
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