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Extenerator and agiFollow

#1 Dec 08 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Hey all,

Just pointing out that our new ws is agility modified. I am very happy about this. Our evasion kilas just became viable DD weapons as well (I didn't say the best, I just said viable). At this point, given that I have 2x eva kilas +3, I no longer have any intention of making str kilas. I'll just merit this new ws.

Still, it's going to be weird stacking agility for a ws. Now, where did I put that drone earring?
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#2 Dec 08 2011 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Since this WS has an AGI modifier should I start building a set similar to a nin's Blade: Hi set for this? I want to get a head start on it, because this is the first WS I am going to cap out once the VU comes out! :)
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#3 Dec 08 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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My AGI merits suddenly look shinier. :D
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#4 Dec 08 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't merit AGI and don't think of AGI Kila +4s as a replacement for STR Kila +4s. We're really hard up for Attack and fSTR really helps our TP phase damage (which is the majority of our damage outside Abyssea). Don't think of it as 11 STR on the +4s, think of it as almost +3 base damage to each hand (or +6 damage to one hand). You will do substantially more damage using two STR/Atk Kilas and Exenterator than two AGI/Eva Kilas and Exenterator.

The fact that there is AGI on AGI Kilas and that Exenterator (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Exenterator) gives Accuracy Down is a nice bonus for when we're evasion tanking something, but it doesn't make them DD weapons. Also, until SE adds something difficult that can be evasion tanked, it's all kind of strategically irrelevant.

Really, all the AGI means is that we've gotten a mod that's inconvenient to gear for.
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#5 Dec 09 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Byrthnoth wrote:
Don't merit AGI and don't think of AGI Kila +4s as a replacement for STR Kila +4s. We're really hard up for Attack and fSTR really helps our TP phase damage (which is the majority of our damage outside Abyssea). Don't think of it as 11 STR on the +4s, think of it as almost +3 base damage to each hand (or +6 damage to one hand). You will do substantially more damage using two STR/Atk Kilas and Exenterator than two AGI/Eva Kilas and Exenterator.

The fact that there is AGI on AGI Kilas and that Exenterator (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Exenterator) gives Accuracy Down is a nice bonus for when we're evasion tanking something, but it doesn't make them DD weapons. Also, until SE adds something difficult that can be evasion tanked, it's all kind of strategically irrelevant.

Really, all the AGI means is that we've gotten a mod that's inconvenient to gear for.


Shhhh, quiet! I'm trying to buy cheap attack gear while selling AGI gear since the price is going up.
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#6 Dec 09 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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6 base damage increment is relatively smaller than increments in any other WS though.
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#7 Dec 14 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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What's a good set going to look like on DNC? Thinking boots specifically...

And I'm close to finishing my Twashtar though I'd still like to have both WS available, but a gear set good for both? I dunno. How's the +100 TP Fusetto look for this WS?

Rudra's:

Twashstar/Fusetto/-/Charis
Aias/Gorget/Aesir/Brutal
Loki's/AF3+2/Epona's/Rajas
Nifty/Cuchulains/Tumbler/AF3+3

Exenterator:

Twashstar/Fusetto/-/Charis
Ocl Head/Gorget/Aesir/Brutal
Loki's/AF3+2/Epona's/Rajas
???/???/Ambusher's/Lithe
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#8 Dec 14 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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TP Bonus Fusetto (and Moonshade) do nothing for this WS. Those sets look okay, though I'd probably use Atheling and Justacair's Torque for both. Anguinus Belt may be the best waist option for Exenterator.
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#9 Dec 15 2011 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Most important question here, at least to me, is: Does it beat DE out of Aby? And I don't mean in full +2's with gear from final VW... I mean for us regular joes lol.
Trying to get back to doing Dynamis and I think if I had something fun to work with it might help me. 500k a day is a ton to lose out on when you don't even have 300k total...
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#10 Dec 15 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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500k a day is a ton to lose out on when you don't even have 300k total...


Huh? There is a new KI that is a 1 time buy for 50k (I think, it has been a while since I bought it).
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#11 Dec 15 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Byrthnoth wrote:
TP Bonus Fusetto (and Moonshade) do nothing for this WS.


Drat!

Elspetta wrote:
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500k a day is a ton to lose out on when you don't even have 300k total...


Huh? There is a new KI that is a 1 time buy for 50k (I think, it has been a while since I bought it).


Yea they changed it awhile back. The funny thing is, nowadays you can actually make 500k a run (solo even) totally half-assing it in Dynamis.
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#12 Dec 15 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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That's what I meant~ by not running Dynamis I am not making 500k a day. I know I know, "you can't lose what you never had!" blah blah, if I don't Dyna, I don't make 500k :P it's just so boring :( Did it tonight, got a decent hall... 63 coins 6 AF2 lol.
But any word on if it beats DE outside?
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#13 Dec 15 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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Assuming it is exactly what it looks like, I would expect it to beat DE by about 10%~20%.
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#14 Dec 16 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe its cos im mithra i dont know but for me Evisceration is my best WS both in and out of Aby... and comfortably so too.

Touching on the STR magian trial daggers, i have read many many times how they add +dmg to your daggers cos of the +STR and +ATK but in real use ive never actually seen it in numbers from hitting mobs... i dont know what mobs are being tested on or if its only being done via a parser.. but if i just whack away at any EP with my EVA dagger and then do the same with just my STR dagger then i dont see the numbers jump up... not like is being suggested.
#15 Dec 18 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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If you're fighting super-EP trash mobs (the stuff that was EP to a 75 and still is only due to magian trials), then fSTR won't do a lot for you. It's probably capped.

Dual STR daggers (fully upgraded) would be STR+24, or fSTR+6, essentially +6 damage to each hand.

One STR dagger (not fully upgraded) would just be like +9 or +10 (depending on +2/+3) which is only 2~3 fSTR, +2~3 damage to each hand.

Turning a 45 damage dagger into a 47 damage dagger probably isn't going to let you eyeball the results. Turning two 45 damage daggers into 51 damage daggers.... a bit more noticeable.

And again, whacking away at EP is hardly the time when STR/Atk are most relevant.

Edited, Dec 18th 2011 2:11pm by ItsAMyri
#16 Dec 18 2011 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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We should really stop looking at base damage.
Our daggers mostly around 50 base damage or less. while your WSC for these new WS can goes up to 140+. What does 4-5 base damage means in order of close-to-200 base damage? It's very little.

Anyway, I see how Striking and Ternary flourish becoming more useful due to stacking them with this WS.
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#17 Dec 19 2011 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Making two STR makes me sad since fire is a rather rare weather :(
#18 Dec 20 2011 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
I've only made 1 STR Kila, but I did most of it in Aby on Firesday. I either solo'd, teamed up with others doing the same trial, or grabbed some DD friends and we just went to town killing as many as possible on Firesday. I know it's slower in the aspect of not getting 5-6 per kill, but with how quickly you can kill things in Aby, it really is much better than camping weather.

*This of course only applies if the trial is day/weather. On weather only trials (I can't remember, but I think the first few are weather only) you have to camp weather.
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#19 Dec 20 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Has anyone tested this weapon skill and determined if we want to go all in on agility when using it?
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#20 Dec 21 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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I emptied my wallet and bought a Justiciar's Torque. Looks like a very nice piece.

I presume you give this advice because Exenterator has a flat attack penalty, and boosting attack back towards the positives will give a big bump?

My partner is a thief with a reasonable set and 5/5 Exenterator. With Sneak Attack often does over 3k and sometimes almost 5k. Unstacked it's usually between 1600-2400. This is in Abyssea.

Sounds like agi+atk is the way to gear for it.
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#21 Dec 21 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
Also, take a look at this thread. They talk about gear sets and numbers. Because Exenterator doesn't crit, Evis/Rudra's is still the go to ws inside Aby, while this one is for outside Aby content.
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#22 Dec 21 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Attack, while it's a concern, can be easily be eased-up with Building Flourish. Building Flourish gives 25% attack boost, just like Berserk.
So say you have 550 attack, you'll get as much as 660 attack. If you still need more, food and Stalwart can boost up to the capped level, but I don't see it as necessary unless you're fighting higher tier NM.

I'm still advocating Ternary Flourish + building flourish in order to get the max of your damage. You won't see number below 3k so often with just building flourish in Abyssea. It's quite a good sidegrade/slight upgrade to Evisceration.

This is just still my hunch that this WS has either slightly lower innate accuracy or simply multi-hit-- because I don't see it lands as many hits as I'd expect despite the shear amount of multi hit boost I have.
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#23 Dec 22 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Darkzeru wrote:
Making two STR makes me sad since fire is a rather rare weather :(


<Fire><Day of the Week> + abyssea <you can have this>

Fire weather is a myth.

*******************************

I like how this is basically a tanking ws, even if it's not the king of damage. I'm saying this is because as I understand it, this ws gives a -20 accuracy debuff on the mob, something I'd take any day of the week. Agi mods go nicely with Gnarled Horn and evasion thokchas, which I would be using on anything difficult to tank/solo.

Dancer is a hybrid job; I don't really expect or want dancer to outperform a pure DD job on pure DD. Meaning I hope that the rangers and dark knights can out damage us. This is a hybrid ws: debuff + damage. It's suits dancer, in my opinion.

I know if I was tanking on anything and the dancer did not keep this debuff up 100% of the time they were meleeing I would scream **** murder.

Now, if you're in a really hard fight, where you're more concerned with survival than quick kills and you can't just blow through it on the haste = less healing mentality, then keeping some finishing moves up for violent flourish is a great idea. Perhaps, in these situations, you know, the fights hard enough that we might need a debuff that lowers mob accuracy, we could use Ternary Flourish when at five finishing moves so we never have those brief moments between reverse flourish -> ws -> presto -> step. Or, even worse, reverse flourish -> ws with some missed hits -> attack round with a missed hit -> cursing the game -> finally landed a hit -> lol you just died before you could get a step off to load up for violent flourish.

Edited, Dec 22nd 2011 1:20pm by Thydonon
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#24 Dec 22 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Exenterator has a flat attack penalty


Wait, what? I thought this was one of the WS they didnt **** up. If this is true, how much -att% is it?
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#25 Dec 22 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
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- he presumed -
On the other hand, I propose the -acc penalty or -multi hit penalty to be more likely for this WS.
With dual AGI Kila (380 delay total, 0.65 coeff from DW, and 16 store TP total), it's very hard for me to get 14 TP return on WS (4+1 hit). I got a lot of 3+1 hit. It's weird enough that I rarely see the off hand miss (<10 TP return), but rarely see full 5-hit on it.

Edited, Dec 23rd 2011 1:18am by VZX
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#26 Dec 23 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Yep since most of the new WS got an attack penalty adjustment that's why I assumed everyone was advocating so much +atk gear for it. No claim to be right, it sounds like more recent tests indicate it probably doesn't have one.

I've been finishing my Twashtar (finally done to 85 yay!) so I'm not done meritting Exenterator yet to test more.

In any case, no regrets on the Twashtar, Rudra's is some scary stuff in Abyssea with Flourish. 4-6k each with Climactic is very sexy. Nothing has survived double darkness yet... because it always manages to stun, knock back or paralyze me before the last WS :P

**** you Sobek!
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#27 Dec 29 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Just popping in with a question here: has anyone done testing to show if we want to use the elemental gorget/belts?

Pre-thanks.
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