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#1 Aug 24 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello all, long time monk here, who got lost on Bst for a long time and has finally gotten around to leveling up my pup. So now I have a few questions.

I have the Anwig Salade
with Pet - 10% damage and Pet Haste 5%

I also have the Moeppa Stone for another Pet Haste 5%

I saw a post by Jinte seeming to state that pet haste was only good for Valoredge and Sharpshot. Is it true that haste does nothing of value for Stormwalker?

I upgraded into Relic +2 hands for another 4% haste.

So assuming I have Turbo Charger with no wind manuevers up I'm sitting at 19% haste. I'm guessing Autos cap at 25% haste?

So 1 wind and I'm over cap on Haste and could change out other gear. My head being first on my list assuming the Auto isn't taking damage.

#2 Aug 25 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Depends whether Turbo Charger counts as gear haste or not. Surely someone has to have figured this out by now, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
#3 Aug 25 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly, it's really difficult to tell whether turbo charger or pet: haste gear impacts spell recast time, and it's a complete pain in the *** to test. However, the point of my post was more that most of the pet: haste gear is weaker than other options that only buff the master, so only the pets whose ability to melee is strong enough actually benefit from the cost, and even then, it's really situational. It basically comes down to whether the pet haste can increase your puppet's damage enough to negate the damage lost due to the stats you're giving up for yourself. Depending on how much total haste you have, and how much your pet has, which option is better changes. Typically, however, the more haste you have, the less you should give up for your pet.

As for automaton haste caps, it's really hard to say, because we have no way of knowing whether or not pet haste even differentiates between magic, JA, and gear haste like it does for players. The only thing I know for certain is that Overdrive's massive chunk of haste doesn't affect spell recast times, so it would, theoretically, be JA haste (which only applies to melee attacks, as evidenced by hasso, desperate blows, and haste samba). However, given the nature of spell recasts, and the current casting AI, it's really quite difficult to definitively test how turbo charger and pet: haste gear affect recast timers. That said... I think I'm going to go trying test this sh*t out on the test server, since I just realized a fairly decent way to try to test it.

Please keep in mind that pup is not bst, and does not play like bst. Our pet's are always second fiddle to us, if we're meleeing, and it's very rare that we have situations that our pet is meleeing and we aren't. For example, while I also have a pet: DT-10% haste+5% anwig, I would absolutely never melee in it ever. Ever. No matter what I'm doing. The same goes for my Mirke Wardecors (Fastcast +5% Pet: MAB+7 M.Acc+7) but that's because it's not even augmented with pet: melee stats.





Also, point of issue I need to make clear. THERE IS NO "L" IN STORMWAKER. IT'S NAME IS STORM WAKER. LIKE LEGEND OF ZELDA: THE WIND WAKER. Smiley: motz I swear to flying @#%^ that this is the single most aggravating pup-related typo I have ever run across, because of how stupidly common it is. It's one thing if you're not a pup, but if you play the job, and you own the frame, and see "stormwaker" every time you open your pet equip menu, there's really no excuse. Nearly as bad is calling the puppet "the automation" but that's less common nowadays.

edit: Yea, turbo Charger does affect recast times, but even 3 wind maneuvers + 9% pet haste gear wasn't enough to notice it (Bliz-> fire every time (against cuelebre) ) without using our new 2hour to force manafont. Typically, manafontwould trigger: blizz V > fire V > aero V> water V but instead I got bliz V > fire V > aero V > bliz V. made sure I didn't have slow up for bliz's initial cast both times.

Edited, Aug 25th 2012 6:27pm by Jinte
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#4 Aug 25 2012 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Would Atma of the Omnipotent (Pantokrator's atma, acts as 10% "gear" haste) help with testing anything out?
#6 Aug 25 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Would Atma of the Omnipotent (Pantokrator's atma, acts as 10% "gear" haste) help with testing anything out?

Murzim Zucchetto (6%) + Pantin Dastanas +2 (4%) + moepapa stone (5%) + omnipotent would be 25% gear haste, theoretically, if you can find enough to make it apparent, it'd be simple enough to test, I just can't think what that "more" would be.

Zelduh wrote:
Turbo Charger is magical haste, so it does not affect the gear haste cap

I'm not saying you're wrong, but cite your source, please, because I sure as **** can't think of any easy way to test this. Besides, we have no way of knowing whether or not the puppet even uses the same haste categories as the player, and as far as haste goes, the only difference between gear and magic haste is their respective caps. They both affect melee attack rate and spell recast time the same way. If you're not pulling that out of your ***, please link as to where you got that information from so that I might update myself.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#10 Aug 26 2012 at 12:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zelduh wrote:
Yeah except I'm not making it up and I'm not the one who tested or claimed it, go ***** at whoever it was. Not my fault if you don't remember when it was determined. Maybe you should have paid more attention to PUP and you would know how the job functions instead of relying on your god Jinte's BS with his HP gear and precious "math"

Regardless it's pretty easy to test, use 3 wind maneuvers and you'll get 25% haste. Equip gear haste. If it's attacking faster, it's not gear haste, and thus stacks with it. It's not rocket science. Your math god should have known that.

"@#%^ can't think of any easy way to test this"

Math. It's SO hard.
Edited, Aug 26th 2012 12:17am by Zelduh

Edited, Aug 26th 2012 12:20am by Zelduh

For the third time, we have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not pet haste is even subjected to the same categories as player haste. Pet's don't use the same level correction. They don't use anything close to the same fSTR. ****, we don't even know for certain if they use the same attack, defense, accuracy, and evasion equations. How the flying **** can you be so certain?
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#13 Aug 26 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
Lady Jinte wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Would Atma of the Omnipotent (Pantokrator's atma, acts as 10% "gear" haste) help with testing anything out?

Murzim Zucchetto (6%) + Pantin Dastanas +2 (4%) + moepapa stone (5%) + omnipotent would be 25% gear haste, theoretically, if you can find enough to make it apparent, it'd be simple enough to test, I just can't think what that "more" would be.

It's a been long long time since I tried this and since i played ffxi however. Doesn't harlequin and Valoredge go ******* fast when combined with overdrive. Would that be enough of a push?

Or maybe futher clarify what is this "More" your talking about?

I can't test it, but I like to help if this becomes a think tank thread.
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#14 Aug 26 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Lady Jinte wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Would Atma of the Omnipotent (Pantokrator's atma, acts as 10% "gear" haste) help with testing anything out?

Murzim Zucchetto (6%) + Pantin Dastanas +2 (4%) + moepapa stone (5%) + omnipotent would be 25% gear haste, theoretically, if you can find enough to make it apparent, it'd be simple enough to test, I just can't think what that "more" would be.

It's a been long long time since I tried this and since i played ffxi however. Doesn't harlequin and Valoredge go apesh*t fast when combined with overdrive. Would that be enough of a push?

Or maybe futher clarify what is this "More" your talking about?

I can't test it, but I like to help if this becomes a think tank thread.

More gear haste. If anything, it'd be atmas. As for how to test it, either time stamp and parsing attack rate, or using recast times to judge.
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Reiterpallasch wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

Except if it were baby photos, it would be like looking at before and afters of Michael Jackson. Only instead of turning into a white guy, he changes into a chick!
#15 Aug 28 2012 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm thanks for the answers. Since I'm still in skill up mode. (pup skills alla round 275 atm) I'll keep as much pet haste as I can. Anything that lowers the time between actions and hopefully earns a skill up is worth it at this point.

Later I'll have to play around and see if Pet haste makes a noticible difference when soloing/duoing NM's Which will probably be my main use of Pup.
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