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Cor update: Phantom Roll changes and enhancementsFollow

#1 Dec 28 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Howdy!

It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.

※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
 

Phantom Roll Effect Changes
Healer's roll received cure pot+ 
Roll Value Effect Value 
One 	5% 
Two 	6% 
Three 	15% 
Four 	7% 
Five 	8% 
Six 	+9% 
Seven 	+2% 
Eight 	10% 
Nine 	11% 
Ten 	+12% 
11 	20% 
Bust 	-5% 
Bonus 	5% 
 
Gallant's roll dt- 
Roll Value Effect Value 
One 	-6 
Two 	-8 
Three 	-24 
Four 	-9 
Five 	-11 
Six 	-12 
Seven 	-3 
Eight 	-15 
Nine 	-17 
Ten 	-18 
11 	-30 
Bust 	+5 
Bonus 	-5 
 
Phantom Roll Effect Value Adjustments  
 
Warlocks Roll 
Roll Value Old Effect Value New Effect Value 
One 	+2 	+2 
Two 	+3 	+3 
Three 	+4 	+4 
Four 	+10 	+12 
Five 	+4 	+5 
Six 	+5 	+6 
Seven 	+6 	+7 
Eight 	+1 	+1 
Nine 	+7 	+8 
Ten 	+7 	+9 
11 	+12 	+15 
Bust 	-4 	-5 
Bonus 	+4 	+5 
 
Beasts Roll: 
Roll Value Old Effect Value New Effect Value 
One 	+12 	+16 
Two 	+15 	+20 
Three 	+18 	+24 
Four 	+48 	+64 
Five 	+21 	+28 
Six 	+24 	+32 
Seven 	+30 	40 
Eight 	+6 	+8 
Nine 	+33 	+44 
Ten 	+36 	+48 
11 	60 	80 
Bust 	-20 	-25 
Bonus 	+20 	25 
 
Coral Roll 
Roll Value Old Effect Value New Effect Value 
One 	-11 	-13 
Two 	-43 	-55 
Three 	-14 	-17 
Four 	-16 	-20 
Five 	-19 	-25 
Six 	-5 	-8 
Seven 	-22 	-30 
Eight 	-27 	-35 
Nine 	-30 	-40 
Ten 	-32 	-45 
11 	-54 	-65 
Bust 	+20 	25 
Bonus 	-20 	-25 
 
Drachen Roll 
Roll Value Old Effect Value New Effect Value 
One 	+4 	+4 
Two 	+5 	+5 
Three 	+14 	+18 
Four 	+5 	+7 
Five 	+6 	+9 
Six 	+7 	+10 
Seven 	+2 	+2 
Eight 	+9 	+11 
Nine 	+10 	+13 
Ten 	+11 	+15 
11 	+18 	+22 
Bust 	-6 	-8 
Bonus 	+6 	+8 
 
Dancer roll 
Roll Value Old Effect Value New Effect Value 
One 	+3 	+3 
Two 	+4 	+4 
Three 	+11 	+12 
Four 	+4 	+5 
Five 	+5 	+6 
Six 	+6 	+7 
Seven 	+1 	+1 
Eight 	+7 	+8 
Nine 	+8 	+9 
Ten 	+8 	+10 
11 	+14 	+16 
Bust 	-3 	-4 
Bonus 	+3 	+4


※We are making adjustments to make the amounts larger for high numbers and lucky numbers.
※We are also planning on increasing the bonus associated with having a Roll's main job in the party.


As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.

As usual, please let us know your feedback!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15236-Phantom-Roll-XI-Adjustment-9-19-11?p=256965#post256965

Edited, Jan 3rd 2012 4:24pm by Szabo
#2 Dec 28 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Is the damage taken - supposed to be a number (like phalanx) or % (holy **** if %)?
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#3 Dec 28 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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That's a nice improvement although Evokers really needed a buff up by one as did DNC roll.
Changing Gallants to what it should have been to begin with. Hopefully that's a percentage and will be over and above the DT cap. If its a phalanx type number, hopefully it stacks with phalanx.

Hope there is more to come as Evokers, Hunters, and Magus could be improved a bit.
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#4 Dec 29 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Was thinking Pal roll would be a bit too strong as DT-%, but if they made it PDT-% and Magus as MDT-% (much stronger than MDB), then that would bump both. Adding just 1 tic refresh to evokers would prob do the trick (or scale up as you level, so its not overpowered at earlier levels).
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#5 Dec 30 2011 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
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doctorugh wrote:
Was thinking Pal roll would be a bit too strong as DT-%, but if they made it PDT-% and Magus as MDT-% (much stronger than MDB), then that would bump both. Adding just 1 tic refresh to evokers would prob do the trick (or scale up as you level, so its not overpowered at earlier levels).


The advantage of MDB is it goes over MDT- cap, and I think(but not 100% sure)it works on breath dmg too, while MDT doesn't.

But yeah, if you're not capping MDT-, magus is kinda weak compare with BRD carol/Scherzo as defensive buffs.

Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


Edit: Or you SMN 2hr zerg for anything that's not in VW/75 cap/abby.



Edited, Dec 30th 2011 2:57am by Afania

Edited, Dec 30th 2011 2:58am by Afania
#6 Dec 30 2011 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


Yeah this sad, we need more playable content......
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#7 Dec 30 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


I think there still can be a place to Evoker's. Certainly the VW atmacite bonuses are pretty small and I've seen BLM's burn through MP pretty quick trying to proc. WHM's hold up well with Light arts, AF3+2 pants, and I'd rather put Cure Potency on them (but only if it goes beyond cap).

On lesser content, depending on your DD to mage ratio, Evokers can be helpful. And certainly if the COR is asked to come /mage, having Evokers on part time will help with MP regen so that mage sub is actually somewhat useful.

I'm probably thinking to JP here, but eschewing a roll that is not necessary but is helpful at times even in older content seems high handed. Admittedly Tacticians and Misers isn't necessary in older content but everyone loves it still.
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#8 Dec 30 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Enhancing bst and drg rolls **** yeah!
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#9 Dec 30 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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-PDT / -MDT roll improvements are great. However i'm willing to bet having DD rolls is still better considering the type of events that are out there. SE needs to add a 3rd roll to Armageddon =)
#10 Dec 31 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


I think there still can be a place to Evoker's. Certainly the VW atmacite bonuses are pretty small and I've seen BLM's burn through MP pretty quick trying to proc. WHM's hold up well with Light arts, AF3+2 pants, and I'd rather put Cure Potency on them (but only if it goes beyond cap).

I'm not sure about you guys, but in Voidwatch I'm always in the DD party (moar TP = moar procs!), and I'm perfectly content with not having to do any mage rolls for our healer. Smiley: clown

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 2:00am by Chewzer
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#11 Jan 01 2012 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Chewzer wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


I think there still can be a place to Evoker's. Certainly the VW atmacite bonuses are pretty small and I've seen BLM's burn through MP pretty quick trying to proc. WHM's hold up well with Light arts, AF3+2 pants, and I'd rather put Cure Potency on them (but only if it goes beyond cap).

I'm not sure about you guys, but in Voidwatch I'm always in the DD party (moar TP = moar procs!), and I'm perfectly content with not having to do any mage rolls for our healer. Smiley: clown

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 2:00am by Chewzer


I usually get put in some sort of idiot mixed party that doesn't know how to make the most of their support. Last VW I was in a party with the main healer, WHM, the main tank, PLD. Then they had a ranger, warrior and red mage in that party. Oh and everyone stood apart. Significantly.
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#12 Jan 01 2012 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Chewzer wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


I think there still can be a place to Evoker's. Certainly the VW atmacite bonuses are pretty small and I've seen BLM's burn through MP pretty quick trying to proc. WHM's hold up well with Light arts, AF3+2 pants, and I'd rather put Cure Potency on them (but only if it goes beyond cap).

I'm not sure about you guys, but in Voidwatch I'm always in the DD party (moar TP = moar procs!), and I'm perfectly content with not having to do any mage rolls for our healer. Smiley: clown

Edited, Dec 31st 2011 2:00am by Chewzer


I usually get put in some sort of idiot mixed party that doesn't know how to make the most of their support. Last VW I was in a party with the main healer, WHM, the main tank, PLD. Then they had a ranger, warrior and red mage in that party. Oh and everyone stood apart. Significantly.


Hey that sounds vaguely familiar.
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#13 Jan 02 2012 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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TheBarrister wrote:
Chewzer wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Evokers doesn't make a difference at this point of time.....current events(where you'd bring a mage) is either 75 cap and too easy to need evokers, in Abby with atma, or in VW with temps/atmacite that refresh doesn't matter.


I think there still can be a place to Evoker's. Certainly the VW atmacite bonuses are pretty small and I've seen BLM's burn through MP pretty quick trying to proc. WHM's hold up well with Light arts, AF3+2 pants, and I'd rather put Cure Potency on them (but only if it goes beyond cap).

I'm not sure about you guys, but in Voidwatch I'm always in the DD party (moar TP = moar procs!), and I'm perfectly content with not having to do any mage rolls for our healer. Smiley: clown


I usually get put in some sort of idiot mixed party that doesn't know how to make the most of their support. Last VW I was in a party with the main healer, WHM, the main tank, PLD. Then they had a ranger, warrior and red mage in that party. Oh and everyone stood apart. Significantly.

I'm lucky in that VWNM PUGs on my server are usually comprised of almost all the same people, so they're usually smart enough to throw me in with the best proc'ing jobs.
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#14 Jan 04 2012 at 11:16 AM Rating: Default
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Healers roll is useless. They took a roll that had some legit use and made it crap. Most all whms are at cure cap anyway and lol at everyone else cureing with cure 4.

Gallants roll is a nice change regardless of what it does.
Pet rolls are just about useless, very rarely am I in a pet pt.

Dnc roll is a nice update.

Not pleased with these buffs really. We have to many **** rolls.
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#15 Jan 05 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Gallants roll has been confirmed as a phalanx like flat damage reduction. Will stack with phalanx.

Healer's roll may gain utility if SE increases Cure Potency cap as suspected.

It's also possible SE wants you to party with a RDM main healer. Since they don't get Cure V, they need all the cure potency they can get lol.
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#16 Jan 06 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Healer Roll is not Cure Potency%, it will be increasing potency of cures received." Probably still not a roll that can be used in most situations, but it will probably has some scenarios that it can be used.
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#17 Jan 06 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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RusticusSageo wrote:
Healer Roll is not Cure Potency%, it will be increasing potency of cures received." Probably still not a roll that can be used in most situations, but it will probably has some scenarios that it can be used.


Cure potency received adds to the cure potency of the caster for a hard cap of 50% between the two. So if a WHM is casting on you, it's worthless. If a BLU mage is casting a cure spell on you (or a COR/WHM) it will boost the cure damage.

Is that ever going to be worthwhile over other rolls? Likely not unless they raise the overall cure potency cap or you can't find a WHM (of course it seems everyone has levelled a WHM on their main or mule at this stage of the game)
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#18 Jan 07 2012 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
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Dartagnann wrote:
RusticusSageo wrote:
Healer Roll is not Cure Potency%, it will be increasing potency of cures received." Probably still not a roll that can be used in most situations, but it will probably has some scenarios that it can be used.


Cure potency received adds to the cure potency of the caster for a hard cap of 50% between the two. So if a WHM is casting on you, it's worthless. If a BLU mage is casting a cure spell on you (or a COR/WHM) it will boost the cure damage.

Is that ever going to be worthwhile over other rolls? Likely not unless they raise the overall cure potency cap or you can't find a WHM (of course it seems everyone has levelled a WHM on their main or mule at this stage of the game)


Which means that its useless. There are probably more whms in the game then ever now, coupled with the fact that gear is easy to get means this roll is junk. I would honestly rather have hmp back.
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#19 Jan 09 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Alobont wrote:
Dartagnann wrote:
RusticusSageo wrote:
Healer Roll is not Cure Potency%, it will be increasing potency of cures received." Probably still not a roll that can be used in most situations, but it will probably has some scenarios that it can be used.


Cure potency received adds to the cure potency of the caster for a hard cap of 50% between the two. So if a WHM is casting on you, it's worthless. If a BLU mage is casting a cure spell on you (or a COR/WHM) it will boost the cure damage.

Is that ever going to be worthwhile over other rolls? Likely not unless they raise the overall cure potency cap or you can't find a WHM (of course it seems everyone has levelled a WHM on their main or mule at this stage of the game)


Which means that its useless. There are probably more whms in the game then ever now, coupled with the fact that gear is easy to get means this roll is junk. I would honestly rather have hmp back.



If they can greatly enhance the potency of hmp, it can actually be very useful for weaken recovery etc.


#20 Jan 09 2012 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I do occasionally play BLU, RDM and WHM and haven't knealt for MP recovery in ages. The game just doesn't play the same way anymore. Ready availability of Temps, refresh gear, cure potency gear, convert, refresh spells, refresh atma and atmacites, etc means most mages can stay standing for almost all situations.
So I can see why SE went away from hMP for Healer's roll. The question of whether Cure Potency received was a suitable replacement given the ease of WHM ability to reach gear caps pretty easily.

Right now i can only imagine its use in a situation where the tank needs uber healing and you didn't bring a WHM. Basically a flawed setup situation. I guess if people are out doing stuff without the greatest job combos it might find use but in most situations with veteran players, they'll get a good WHM rather than waste the COR's time with a RDM healer in a tough fight.
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#21 Jan 09 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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They've been lifting several caps in the past year or so; one such cap that I'm hoping gets lifted is Cure potency.
#22 Jan 09 2012 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Generally speaking, if your at the point where two dd roles + refresh is not enough, adding cure potency for larger cures wont matter.
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#23 Jan 11 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Greetings all

I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.

Quote:
Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus.

In order to allow for better use of the job bonuses, we are currently looking into swapping the stats on Drachen Roll and Puppet Roll. We are making preparations so that this can be implemented onto the test server along with the other roll adjustments.

[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy

[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy

Quote:
Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March?

The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.

Quote:
Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only.

In regards to single target rolls, I will address this and the concept of corsair as a set.

Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.

While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.

Quote:
The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right?

Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15236-Phantom-Roll-XI-Adjustment-9-19-11?p=260698&viewfull=1#post260698

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 8:20pm by Szabo
#24 Jan 11 2012 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagnann wrote:
I do occasionally play BLU, RDM and WHM and haven't knealt for MP recovery in ages. The game just doesn't play the same way anymore. Ready availability of Temps, refresh gear, cure potency gear, convert, refresh spells, refresh atma and atmacites, etc means most mages can stay standing for almost all situations.
So I can see why SE went away from hMP for Healer's roll. The question of whether Cure Potency received was a suitable replacement given the ease of WHM ability to reach gear caps pretty easily.

Right now i can only imagine its use in a situation where the tank needs uber healing and you didn't bring a WHM. Basically a flawed setup situation. I guess if people are out doing stuff without the greatest job combos it might find use but in most situations with veteran players, they'll get a good WHM rather than waste the COR's time with a RDM healer in a tough fight.



I'd say healers+gallant combo is pretty good for jobs like PLD or BLU to hold/kite NMs, since I can't cap cure potency+ on BLU. I also main heal on BLU in salvage pretty often because no body wants to play mage, and BLU can DD+keep pt alive just fine anyways, but DD roll is usually better in such situation.

Another situation is probably just tank+COR/RDM or /WHM duo, which I know many ppl obviously will hate ;P

Edited, Jan 11th 2012 10:04pm by Afania
#25 Jan 12 2012 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy


Makes a ton of sense, should have been this way all along but I'm glad to see them making the correction now. Extremely situational, but speaking as a PUP with a good pet nuking build it's VERY welcome news to get that job bonus. If you have friends/LS members who are good at PUP it may come into play on certain fights or setups.

I know some of you have never rolled Drachen in your lives. I have though, and I've had a fair number of times where I'm on PUP and had it rolled on me to great effect. Of course, there are SMN situations where it's also handy.

Quote:
Quote:
Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March?

The effect of Blitzer’s Roll is the same as Martial Arts as it reduces the attack duration, so the amount of TP gained is affected. We do not plan on changing the effect to make it similar to Haste/March as these spells have an influence on magic.


BS answer. They could easily make it work like Haste Samba - JA haste that doesn't affect magic and doesn't reduce TP gain. Then we might still talk about how useful it is due to JA haste being currently capped at 25%, but it's certainly a way to reduce delay while not affecting magic or TP per swing.

Quote:
Quote:
The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right?

Unfortunately the effect from Healer’s Roll will not enhance the potency of waltzes.
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages.


/facepalm. They say it's "the roll for white mages" even though a good WHM won't benefit from it. Unless they really are removing the current cure potency cap...

Edited, Jan 12th 2012 12:52pm by Anza
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#26 Jan 12 2012 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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/facepalm. They say it's "the roll for white mages" even though a good WHM won't benefit from it. Unless they really are removing the current cure potency cap...


Well this is especially true since it is "Cure Potency Received" which means you'd roll it on the tanks/DD not the mages.
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#27 Jan 13 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Anza wrote:


/facepalm. They say it's "the roll for white mages" even though a good WHM won't benefit from it. Unless they really are removing the current cure potency cap...

Edited, Jan 12th 2012 12:52pm by Anza



Actually majority of WHMs I met doesn't have capped cure potency, since they just level WHM to be useful and not really care/love too much about it to invest great deal of time to gear it.

But again, since it's received cure potency+ and have to use on melees, it's almost entirely useless unless you're kiting. I honestly think old hMP roll is more useful, or they should just do cure potency+ instead of receive cure potency+, could at least help the average WHMs or BLU healer.
#28 Jan 18 2012 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Dearest corsairs,

Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote:
Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6.

ncreasing the number of charges will lead to an increase in damage dealt over the same time span, so this is something we have to look into very carefully.

Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.

If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.

In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15236-Phantom-Roll-XI-Adjustment-9-19-11?p=264234#post264234
#29 Jan 19 2012 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
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As long as QD gave the same TP gain, I'd be fine with more charges and some reduced damage. Sadly I know SE's penchant for going overboard with nerf's at times, so I dread the word.

This is especially true if they add enfeebling effects to QD. Being able to slow and para a mob and still have a charge left for Fire SHot -> Wild Fire would be welcome. I know its fun to put out those occasional triple damage 1-3 k QD's but that's more a novelty than anytihng with super utility.

And since when can't a RNG sub COR and use QD?
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Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
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75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#30 Jan 19 2012 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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Exactly what Dartagnann said. If we could still gain TP and use QD to buff magic damage (i.e. Wildfire), I would welcome a damage nerf in exchange for more charges. With open arms. And I would make sweet love to it after a hard days' work. Probably cook it breakfast the next day as well.

Dartagnann wrote:
And since when can't a RNG sub COR and use QD?
Exactly. In fact RNG has access to similar amounts of AGI and can use all the same MAB gear that we do, barring Omphalos Bullet, and that can be compensated with by their access to higher damage bullets.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
#31 Jan 19 2012 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Ummm...we have to pay for that damage, so that's the tradeoff?
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#32 Jan 19 2012 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Chewzer wrote:
Exactly what Dartagnann said. If we could still gain TP and use QD to buff magic damage (i.e. Wildfire), I would welcome a damage nerf in exchange for more charges. With open arms. And I would make sweet love to it after a hard days' work. Probably cook it breakfast the next day as well.

Dartagnann wrote:
And since when can't a RNG sub COR and use QD?
Exactly. In fact RNG has access to similar amounts of AGI and can use all the same MAB gear that we do, barring Omphalos Bullet, and that can be compensated with by their access to higher damage bullets.



But if RNG subbing COR instead of WAR or SAM that's way too much WS dmg lose when COR can still /WAR + getting QD charges. Not to mention if they're using WF, they can't boost WF dmg before QD(when COR can probably boost every WF if it's 6 charges), so it's not exactly the same.

Edited, Jan 19th 2012 8:00pm by Afania
#33 Jan 20 2012 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But if RNG subbing COR instead of WAR or SAM that's way too much WS dmg lose when COR can still /WAR + getting QD charges. Not to mention if they're using WF, they can't boost WF dmg before QD(when COR can probably boost every WF if it's 6 charges), so it's not exactly the same.


I'm just saying if SE thinks RNG falls behind COR from damage standpoint then a RNG should obviously be subbing COR to gain access to its QD abilities. If a RNG/WAR can keep ahead of a COR/SAM with increased QD charges then there is no reason for SE to be worried about RNG.

A RNG/COR, assuming he's in the COR party will get Tactician's, Miser's, and can run his own mini-nerfed Chaos buff. He'll get QD damage that he can get close to COR levels by using 127 dmg bullet (unless COR has Omphalos), which is almost 30 points higher than Orichalcum Bullet. He can WF for bit less than COR due to no AF3 +2 boots effect but better AGI gear. Then he can far outhit a COR with Last Stand due to better AGI gear options, better RATT options, better bullet options. He can also out ranged TP a COR with velocity shot, true shot, better bullets, better RATT.

THis is only assuming 3 or 4 QD charges make that big a difference to damage that it outweighs a RNG subbing SAM or WAR, which I doubt it would. Realistically it only matters at the beginning of the fight unless SE changes timers.

Then again VW is just stupid so why would SE care that much.
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Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
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