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(Optimistic) guide to the new PR Recast/XI changesFollow

#1 Aug 01 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been thinking a lot about the new changes and getting really excited about the potential. I feel like a lot of people aren't seeing the subtle complexity of the new system though, and the potential shift toward a more buff-oriented focus. So, I wrote a little guide about it and posted it on the SE official COR forums.

LINK

Feel free to critique, add comments, discuss your own thoughts. I realize a lot of the regulars here DO get the implications of the changes, but it seems like a lot of other people I've seen in-game or on other forums might just not have truly thought about it. Hopefully this will at least make people think a bit, particularly more casual COR players (not a main job perhaps), or non-CORs who don't really get what we do.

And as always, thanks to all of you here for your helpful suggestions, friendly debate, and interesting ideas.

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#2 Aug 02 2011 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
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Anza wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about the new changes and getting really excited about the potential. I feel like a lot of people aren't seeing the subtle complexity of the new system though, and the potential shift toward a more buff-oriented focus. So, I wrote a little guide about it and posted it on the SE official COR forums.

LINK

Feel free to critique, add comments, discuss your own thoughts. I realize a lot of the regulars here DO get the implications of the changes, but it seems like a lot of other people I've seen in-game or on other forums might just not have truly thought about it. Hopefully this will at least make people think a bit, particularly more casual COR players (not a main job perhaps), or non-CORs who don't really get what we do.

And as always, thanks to all of you here for your helpful suggestions, friendly debate, and interesting ideas.



Thank you, finally someone willing to post on SE forums and tell those ppl stop raging and think twice before they post negative comments without thinking.

Although sounds mean, I still have to be honest here.....those replies on SE forums after update announced are typical community quick reactions without thinking - -
But I remember when SE announced regain roll community had negative reactions too(and it ended up being one of the most useful buff COR can use atm)


Also, sometimes other pt member is clueless to see ppl keep busting, we should all tell them that bust isn't bad at all(in fact, sometimes necessary) especially with No.11 on.


I also wrote a bit of different strategy for No.11, although most of them I already post here. Anyways I'll just copy and paste.



1. Get a No.11 with double snake eye:
Basically after a COR rolled first No.11, COR won't receive bust status and will lower PR recast time, and that means COR can now work like a BRD, and gain extra 1 tick TP regain from roller's ring. Plus by keep redoing rolls, COR will be able to keep rolling No.11 for rest of the rolls easily and enhance buff potency greatly. So it may be a lot more worth it to use 2 snake eyes to reach No.11 after reaching No.9. Snake eye---> 2hr-----> Snake eye.

Depending on the situations, sacrificing 2hr(which usually don't really help the pt that much cuz it's randomness), and you get to keep rolling No.11 for rest of the time, sounds like a fair trade no?

2. Keep the buffs that benefits COR full time:
Say for example you're doing regain---->chaos---->Fighters---->evokers in that order, and you would like to keep No.11 regain roll on yourself. You can do chaos/fighters/evokers on your pt member, after you buffed them you can walk away from them and bust those rolls you don't want on purpose(if you bust away from pt member they won't lose buffs). That way you'll always have a No.11 regain roll full time, and still able to cycle through buffs for other pt members as soon as possible. This way also works like mini-fold, you can decide what number you want for your pt member.

Of course you don't have to bust on purpose, you can cycle through every roll, just aim for No.11 for every roll coming up next and redo them over and over, you always get a choice.


3. Doing more than 4 rolls:
Since the new No.11 update lower the recast time to a point that COR can keep rerolling ASAP, it's very possible that COR can now do more than 4 rolls and still have plenty of time to DD(again, thanks to full time regain roll). A COR can now do more buffs that benefits specific job or situation in the pt. A DRK or SAM generally gets more benefit from traditional Chaos/fighters, while crit-hit WS users like Blade: Hi NIN or CDC BLU gets more benefit from Rogues roll. BLU either gets benefit from Evokers or DD roll depending on the spell/Melee/WS ratio and mob lv. BLM mostly gets benefit from wizards/evokers, and depending on situation, fast cast or macc roll. WHM is either evokers/fast cast/healer or SCH roll depending on different situations as well, PLD is either DD roll or evokers sometimes(if MP runs low), and maybe magic def roll when big -ga spells coming(or NM enter magic spamming mode etc). With such low recast time of PR, a COR can now decide what roll will benefit your pt member the most by observe the situations carefully and make decisions, without worrying about long JA recast and won't be able to change buffs on the fly. Althoough which roll will benefit which job the most for this particular situation is really depending on the experience and overall knowledge of other jobs.

That also allows COR to do pt rotations as efficent as BRD as long as the COR is carring one No.11.


4. Against NMs that dispel buffs:
Sometimes it can be a bit annoying that your tank/melee buffs keep getting dispelled, and COR can't redo buffs ASAP with same buffs on himself and long JA recast time. As long as you're staying out of NM dispel range and keep one No.11 on you(and only keep one roll on yourself), you can do 2 buffs ASAP for melee and tanks after their buffs dispelled.


#3 Aug 02 2011 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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Plus by keep redoing rolls, COR will be able to keep rolling No.11 for rest of the rolls easily and enhance buff potency greatly


I'd hesitate to say keeping a continuous string of XI's is "easy". If you've already wasted snake eye and your 2 hr to get that first XI, you have limited tools in that 6 min to get another XI.

Your best strategy is to roll a good roll for the party members and then bust it off yourself away from the party members until snake eye timer is back up and then try to aggressively get an XI. If you try to keep a string of XI's going you will be busting a lot and wasting alot of Lucky's.

The otehr problem with the bust off yourself strategy is finding locations to get away from the party. Locations like Dynamis, Limbus, several Aby camp areas, WoE, etc have very limited space to run away from everyone without getting aggro. So it may be a challenge.

Nonetheless I'm trying to embrace this new change but still find I'm feeling more like a BRD and less like a COR at times.
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#4 Aug 02 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Afania wrote:
Although sounds mean, I still have to be honest here.....those replies on SE forums after update announced are typical community quick reactions without thinking - -
But I remember when SE announced regain roll community had negative reactions too(and it ended up being one of the most useful buff COR can use atm)


I agree, unfortunately. I think a lot more people will start to see the use in reducing PR recast if we do get a third active roll though. Easier to see the benefit there when applying it to the old fashioned "2 buffs on melees, 2 buffs on mages" kind of thinking. If somebody's trying to roll THREE different buffs on each group... well, there ya go. I just hope it doesn't devolve into mindless 6 roll cycles, because it doesn't have to.

Quote:
Also, sometimes other pt member is clueless to see ppl keep busting, we should all tell them that bust isn't bad at all(in fact, sometimes necessary) especially with No.11 on.


Yes - nearly every time I've been playing and intentionally Busting, people laugh like it was a mistake. I am having to explain. I think our job is going to include some education on why Bust is NOT a bad thing once the COR has an active XI. We need to do some P.R. for PR (ouch, bad pun!).

Quote:
1. Get a No.11 with double snake eye:
2. Keep the buffs that benefits COR full time:
3. Doing more than 4 rolls:


Exactly! So few people are realizing this kind of thing. It's really a massive change, and most people seem to think it's no benefit at all when they hit XI because they're stuck playing in the old mindset of repeating a slow buff cycle of 2-4 rolls. And they're still stopping on numbers other than lucky/XI.

Double snake eye is pretty clever, and I haven't tried that yet. Gonna have to add it to my bag of tricks for those frequent times when Wild Card isn't vital to have in hand for some other reason (even something like holding to reset Convert for a mage in an MP-heavy fight). Most of the time I don't end up actually using use Wild Card, but since getting that initial XI (which you can make last forever) is important enough... pretty good use of it!

And I've really taken to keeping XI Tactician's on myself as roll #1, and continuously busting the 2nd roll as long as I can safely get off by myself. Just need to be aware of the timer to know when you need to start focusing on getting an XI 2nd roll and leaving it there to work on getting Tactician's XI again.

Dartagnann wrote:
I'd hesitate to say keeping a continuous string of XI's is "easy". If you've already wasted snake eye and your 2 hr to get that first XI, you have limited tools in that 6 min to get another XI.


I get your point that it can feel like wasting time to keep busting away. But it's not quite "hard" either... just bust, bust away - you'll eventually hit an XI. With 3/5 Winning Streak merits and Navarch +1 Gloves, I have zero fear that I'll hit another XI in the time that my held lucky roll is active. Especially with my own PR recast down to 19 seconds now (3/5 PR Recast and ASA legs, I'll do 5/5 PR Recast soon though). Honestly Double-up is the timer I wait for more often than PR now.

Quote:
Nonetheless I'm trying to embrace this new change but still find I'm feeling more like a BRD and less like a COR at times.


That's true. I do feel more like I'm there to run around and buff. But as opposed to BRD's other role usually being crowd control, my other role is firing off QD and WS in between my more frequent buffing. I kinda like it actually, but it's definitely a significant adjustment.

I feel like I have more of a sense of purpose in the buff mode though, as opposed to recently in the Abyssea era using daggers and meleeing. Not that I was adding nothing, fast attack speed and firing off WS sure helped. But there are so many other jobs to add good DD. And on a lot of stuff like NMs that we would do as an LS for Atma, +2 items, whatever... I'm spending a lot of time waiting on procs and not meleeing/shooting anyway. I feel like I'm actually USING my time to put useful buff on people instead of standing around waiting for procs then an easy kill.


Edited, Aug 2nd 2011 3:08pm by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#5 Aug 02 2011 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Dartagnann wrote:
Quote:
Plus by keep redoing rolls, COR will be able to keep rolling No.11 for rest of the rolls easily and enhance buff potency greatly


I'd hesitate to say keeping a continuous string of XI's is "easy". If you've already wasted snake eye and your 2 hr to get that first XI, you have limited tools in that 6 min to get another XI.



It's certainly much, MUCH easier than it used to be.


Dartagnann wrote:

Nonetheless I'm trying to embrace this new change but still find I'm feeling more like a BRD and less like a COR at times.



I don't have BRD leveled so I may be wrong, but since BRD keep switching their instruments for different songs and I guess that resets TP? It's literally impossible for them to DD like COR can(even if the COR keeps rolling)


Plus, you gamble a lot more now, you gamble a fk tons, you can't be more COR than that ;P
#6 Aug 06 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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But these days, I swear I feel like I'm herding greased ferrets trying to hit people.
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Fynlar wrote:
Chew is being a lot more level-headed regarding the whole issue, which is strange because he's probably drunk.
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