Quick Draw & AGI SetupFollow

Just a quick note, the bullet you use with wildfire doesn t matter for a magic ws, so you could ws in bronze bullets if you want and have the same dmg as oberon, but for way cheaper.

you setup seems quite nice, maybe try and get those augmented MAB demon rings from abyssea taghrogi(spelling) Canyon.

For legs i use AF3 +2, but its only because i don t have denali, i usually try to stack MAB first and then AGI for slots when MAB isn t available.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 9:51am by AshMulder

Oberon's is there for Quick Draw more than anything, i couldn't find any singles on the Auction House so i had to get some the hard way.

Almost forgot about the MaB rings in Tahrongi, we're moving to Chloris/Glavoid for Dagger/Hand-to-Hand after i get Lv85 Armageddon so i might pickup some there.

I've heard some really nightmarish stories about Chloris but from the few fights i've seen he does not seem that bad.
Am i missing something? I'm guessing it something about the requirements to spawn him?

My QD Set:

Full AF3+2

Forban Cape
Aquiline belt
Blobnag Ring
Auster's Ring
Oberon's Bullet
Moldavite Earring
Novio Earring

There is debate on whether Full Af3+2 is worth equipping for a chance of QD triple procing. The chance is about 10-12% and when it kicks in, it really kicks in. 3K+ on NM's. Lol. If you swap in possibly better pieces of gear instead of Af3 the #'s will be quite minor. If you don't have the entire set, wearing Schutzen Mittens, Denali Body, Denali Legs and Loki's Kaftan (or any other AGI+ piece) are good alternatives. If you have Armageddon TP isn't an issue, either are resists. A few QD's mixed in with a few shots combined with Triple Shot during Aftermath and you'll be dripping TP.

The only thing i really want to add are MaB rings. I could swap in Uggy Pendant, but swapping in gear for it to trigger is a pain.

Besides higher AGI and MAB upgrades like 7 AGI ring, +2 head or Novio:

I think Ambusher's hose(10 AGI) is the best if you're not relying on AF3+2 STP to maintain your X-hit after WS. Also I think 8 AGI>3 MAB plus you got STP on it.

Uggy pendant for neck, it's not THAT hard to get rid of MP ._. Don't know why every COR I run into use Artemis' Medal or AF3 neck :/

Also Reaver Grip +1 if you want higher WF dmg, Rose strap if you want to keep X-hit. Fire grip hardly help anything except resist rate. But you can get lower resist from Reaver Grip+1 already.






Hmmm I'd say ACP body with QD recast- and MAB is way better option than Loki, since AGI doesn't add dmg but ACP body not just add dmg, but also gives you more QD with lower recast-. Also I'm still not sure if QD in full set is worth it. ACP body gives -5 recast, it should be better option than +2 body over time no? Schutzen Mittens gives more TP, since QD is a good way gain TP it's too hard to give up too~ I only QD in feet+legs +2, not sure if head+2 is better than AF1+1 for QD~


I'd say if you don't have MAB rings, Rajas+Hoard ring is a very good option for QD. With AF3+2 legs/Rose strap and Schutzen Mittens, that's 22 TP you'll get every QD and without gimping your QD dmg.









There's a reason why RNG sucked in Abyssea :x

Shooting is only good if you REALLY need to avoid NM AOE or if you have WF(or if you focus on Leaden salute atma setup), so you can get TP with a fire or dark staff(HQ) equipped.

Those elemental staff adds quite a lot of dmg, especially when they stack with atma direct dmg+% and dmg+20% after QD with AF3+2 feet. If you do WF with a melee weapon, you're gonna see a huge WS/QD dmg drop. Regain roll/atma and WoTG earring with regain augment are very good to keep your WS speed up. 45 sec recast QD and some STP gear for QD set also helps.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2011 2:10pm by Afania

I love how leople are just rating me down for nothing lol.

Anyway i know for NMs im going to want fire staff and such, but im curious about exp. Is a more melee geared setup better for producing tp then haveing to rely on regain?

Basically i guess i wanna know is the pay off for doing lesser ws dmg and gaining back dot better then gearing strictly for ws and doing fewer but larger ws.

Atma combos im debating are RR apoc smoulder vs sea daughter smouldering and another matt.

Well AGI is mainly for more dmg, unless your WS really got resist every time AGI should still be a better option IMO. Fire acc on the other hand is more of a situational swap.





I don't know what weapon you melee with, Mkris or Joy. But I tested with Joy in EXP pt and WS frenquency isn't that much higher. Mostly because there are wait times in EXP pt that you're not fighting. When ppl pulling the mob, or running back to Dominion NPC, or when you do DD rolls for other DDs, engage/disengage, that's the time you're not fighting and not getting TP via melee. So ranged attack setup kinda "catch up" when you're not engaged and still getting TP through regain and getting QD recast time back.

Each ranged attack and QD can also generate like 20~25 TP depending on your sub and STP gear. Also regain roll with AF3+2 body has average 3 TP/tic even with average numbers. So you certainly can get TP faster than you expected if you're doing EXP and spending time running around + engage/disengage. Mkris should TP faster, but I'm not sure if it's fast enough to make up all the WS dmg lose.

Also melee weapon dmg sucked a lot with fire attack/MAB atma setup anyways.

On NM it's very hard to compete with NIN or MNK who full time engage the mob though. Not like COR in melee mode can attack as fast as NIN MNK anyways.

With a Vulcan's staff or with a melee weapon?

My BLU friend has 24% haste and OA2~4 magian weapon, and never attack as fast as NIN and MNK with proper DD setup. The DA from gears/atma/WAR sub stack together somehow made none multi-hit weapon "catch up" to multi-hit weapon in terms of attack speed.

Even if you do have as much haste as nin/mnk/thf/dnc, they just have faster weapons (martial arts and DW+very low delay daggers/katanas). They get below 180 delay which means they get TP faster because of the way TP scales with delay. The farther under 180 delay (per hand) you get, the more TP over time you will get.

There is also some truth to DA/TA atmas/gear closing the gap between multi hit weapons and single hit weapons. Just like a ridil/joy war back in the day should never merit DA. The multi hits on weapons (Joy/Ridil/Mkris/Soboro/Magians etc) is mutually exclusive from DA or TA traits/gear/atmas. So if you have a 50% DA weapon and add 10% DA in gear, the boost is cut in half to 5% because you can only proc a DA from gear/atma/traits on a hit that you single atk from your weapon.

If you have a 50% DA weapon and you add 50% more DA from gear/atmas/traits you will get the equivalent of 75% DA. If you have another weapon and add 50% DA gear/atma/trait you get 50% DA. Over 100 swings, the 50% DA weapon will atk 175 times. The normal weapon would atk 150 times. 175/150=16.7%. The weapon with a base 50% DA only attacks 16.7% more than one with ZERO DA. This is whats happening in abyssea now.

Combine that with the point that most Occ atk 2-X time weapons are rather slow/low damage and you can see why a fast, high DPS weapon in the hands of a Dual wielder/martial arts traits speeding them up will do FAR more DPS and gets even FASTER tp if their per-hand delay is under 180, and its not small wonder that a great Nin/Thf/Dnc/Mnk can tear stuff up the way they do in abyssea.

A job like Cor just wont keep up with that kind of TP exclusively from melee, and their actual melee damage will be pretty weak to claim it is 'making up' for anything.

I think your over estimating some of the haste numbers. The cap is 80% which includes dual weild and other sources of haste. Cor can hit that 80% just like the other DD jobs, which actually mames the cor -delay roll good as it its effecting your weapon delay and not counting to haste. As far as TP regeneration goes cor gets the same atmas as everyone else + regain roll + quick draw. I think your underestimating quick draws power.

To fully utilize QD you need to fire it at 80% then you can WS right after. I think we just need to parse some stuff and find out. We need to see what atma set up will produce the most damage with DOT and ws combined.

Ok did some very quick test after I got home, I tested with a Vulcan's staff and a Warp Cudgel(forgot my sword in MH XDDD)


Here is the result:

Subjob is RDM(MABII)

WS set:
Vulcan't staff(or Warp Cudgel)/Rose strap/Armageddon/Bronze bullet
Navarch's Tricorne +2/Uggalepih pendant(latent effect on)/Moldavite/Hecate's
Loki's Kaftan/Schutzen mittens/Breeze ring/Solemn ring
Forban cape/Aquiline belt/Navarch's culottes +2/Navarch's bottes +2

With cruor buffs on AGI was 86 + 129
Atma was Lone wolf and Sea Daughter. I don't have Smoldering sky yet, but both Smoldering sky and Lone wolf are fire attack: Major, so they should be the same...
Lucky No.5 Wizard's roll(I land on No.5 the entire time) and regain roll.
Didn't use any temp items


Mob was Bluffalo in Abyssea Uleguerand near CF 4 and 5

WS with Vulcan's staff all after fire shot dmg+20%
3253
3803
3169

WS with Warp Cudgel after fire shot
3308
2757
3483

Then I go added Atma of Ultimate
(Lone wolf/Ultimate/sea daughter)

With Vulcan's staff
5264
4386(This one I waited too long after fire shot, so it didn't have dmg+20% effect. Or else it should be 5262)

With Warp Cudgel
4579
4403(This one I used temp item to recover HP, so Uggalepih pendant latent effect not on.)

It seems that without Ultimate, not just the WS dmg dropped 1k+, but the WS dmg got very unstable. With Ultimate, it's usually the same number 95% of time on none NMs. I guess macc+ superior on Ultimate plays an important role~~

So if you want consistent WS dmg, Ultimate is a must have.










Edited, Mar 5th 2011 3:52am by Afania

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 3:54am by Afania

Sure I can try to test it, but I think you're underestimating your TP speed with regain and a staff in EXP pt. Sea daughter is 5 TP/tic, regain roll average is 3TP/tic with AF3 body. That's like 8TP you'll got every 3 sec without engaging the mob. If your puller in EXP pt doesn't pull very fast(95% of EXP pt doesn't), it's more likely to have overflow of TP if you're in EXP pt after all the running to NPC, waiting for mob etc. Also if you're subbing SAM, you get more TP per shot/QD and Meditate for TP too.

At least for me when I joined my friends EXP pt I'm always sitting close to 100% TP whenever I engage the mob, do a QD and TP 100%. Most of the EXP mobs only has 6~7k HP, so after fire shot and WS they pretty much have to pull a new mob. Although WS when mob below 40% HP sure is kinda a waste because half of the dmg are wasted.

I can do WS and give you the WS numbers, but I think you'd have to parse with both melee weapon and a staff to find out which way TP and dmg faster XD.



Edited, Mar 5th 2011 3:36pm by Afania

Even if you do floor your delay, I can't see it being enough of an increase in TP phase damage and WS rate to offset a 40% reduction in WS damage.

You're also building for Exp like this is the Birds era and you have to do it for more than a few hours at a time. Why Exp on a capped job past the first few batches of merits to cap all categories?

This is the classic FFXI blunder of over-optimizing for trash mobs and 'perfect' (COR, BRD, DNC all in one party, etc) situations. It's why I was never impressed that a piercing job could outdamage my DRK at birds by 10%.

Edited, Mar 5th 2011 4:53pm by Raelix

ORLY?

Atma: GH/Ultimate/VV
SJ RDM

AGI and WS set same as above except I used a joytoy this time

No.7 Wizards roll, watersday(don't know if this actually affects WS dmg)


(Without Uggy pendant latent effect)
3884
3884
(With Uggy pendant latent effect)
4052
3856

All after fire shot dmg+20%

If you're testing anything elemental based, don't do it on corresponding days. Fire Obi/Zodiac Ring do add on bonus damage to Wildfire, so my guess would be Watersday penalty can apply.

I've yet to determine which is overall better, +3% damage (zodiac ring) vs Augmented Demon Ring or Stormsoul Ring.

Those with access to Wildfire, out of curiosity, how often do you melee? I find myself fulltiming Vulcan's Staff rather than using joy/mkris. Also has anyone tested Brulo's atma?
(Atma of the Burning Effigy: STR+ Minor [negligible for wildfire], Fire WS dmg+Major, Gain Full Benefit of Firesday/Weather bonuses.)

Edited, Mar 7th 2011 3:58pm by Wyuli

Not necessarily. Without needing to use Karin Obi due to the Atma to guarantee day bonus, I could use something else like Aquiline Belt for both QD/Wildfire.

I'm going to assume you're not referring to this Fire Belt, and you're meaning Flame Belt instead.

Next, I'm going to assume you didn't mean Flame Belt, because Wildfire has Gravitation/Darkness for skillchain properties, which means Flame Belt is irrelevant (unless you really want that Conserve TP+7).

Wildfire has a fTP mod of 5.5. Elemental Gorgets/Belts add 0.1 to fTP. According to Kirschy on BG, this is Wildfire's formula:

[floor(5.5 * (Lv + 2 + floor(0.85 * floor(AGI * .6))))] + [2 * (Your AGI-Enemy INT)]

Looking at Leaden Salute/Trueflight's formulas:
( fTP * ( 75 + 2 + (0.83 * (AGI * 0.3)))) + 2 * ( AGI - EnemyAGI )

Looking at Leaden's 75+2 vs Wildfire's Lv+2. Going to assume Leaden's 75+2 is Lv+2, due to the time Leaden Salute was released.

Let's assume our AGI = 150. EnemyINT = 75. Character Lv.90. I think floor means to round down?

[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150
924 + 150 = 1074

Now, let's add in Soil or Shadow Belt, as I have no clue if Snow/Aqua belts work.

[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75]
[floor(5.6 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150
[floor(5.6 * 168)] + 150
940 + 150 = 1090

Difference of 16 points of damage. Let's now change to Aquiline Belt. MAB is calculated as another term I believe. MAB+3 being 1.03

( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * floor(150 * .6))))] + [2 * (150 - 75)] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor(0.85 * 90)))] + [2 * 75] ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * (92 + floor76.5))] + 150 ) * 1.03
( [floor(5.5 * 168)] + 150 ) * 1.03
( 924 + 150 ) * 1.03 = 1106

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd test this vs lv0 rabbits but maintenance isn't quite over yet.

Honestly? Never. SeaDaughter, Tactician's Roll, WotG earring. The ONLY time I would consider melee would be on mobs that have insane magic cut. Losing Vulcan's staff would be a travesty.

-Ath

In abyssea most of the time with vulcan's staff. The TP speed of Joytoy isn't much faster than vulcan't staff but WS/QD dmg lose is too huge.

In Nyzul I still melee a lot though. Wildfire dmg isn't much better than slug outside...

The only real use for melee in abby is probably just for NM fights that resists WF and you /DNC haste samba whore for MNK and NIN~
Or maybe Aeolion Edge amber light gold chest farm.




Does Zodiac ring affects elemental WS too? I know it affects QD but if it affects WS it'd be great~~

Full af3 isnt worth it. Proc rate is only about 5%. The only pieces worth useing for QD are really the feet and hands and thats if you dont need thr tp.
Cant use the body since we have acp, cant use hat cause of AF, cant use legs since denali adds agil
Macc and matt. Hands are the only piece really and thats only
If you dont need the tp.

Id assume if your meleeing your gonna want the tp so use the mitts. If
Your standing around back lineing use af3 gloves. Id also assume during a zerg you can swap in pants over denali.

Its been done already. Full af3+2 isnt worth it, jsut wear two pieces and enjoy it when it procs.

Need at least two pieces of af3+2 to get set bonus. Hands and feet are the best ones to use.

If you dont have ACP body with QD-5 then number 2 is your best bet. I just assume any real cor has that qd-5 augment since it so powerful.

Without Mirke, AF2 body over hands, with mirke and not in a situation where you need the extra tp (ie outside of exp) AF3 hands.

The agil amount is a moot point really. 97% of the time your QD is going to land and be just fine without stacking agil.

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 8:42pm by Alobont

Works just fine. Mine is ratt+10 qd-5, though im planning on redoing it since I have wildfire now.