Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Reminder to 75 COR poseters re: dd corFollow

#102 Jul 12 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,678 posts
I never use use exp bands for merit parties. I like being able to get the @#%^ out of Dodge, quick. =P

But I'm trying to explain the point that Milich is trying to explain, that people seem to be missing.

If you take 3 unmerited DDs along the lines of the one I linked earlier, put them in a party with an unmerited RDM, an unmerited BRD/NIN, and an unmerited COR, and slapped Hunter's Roll + Chaos on them, you likely wouldn't ever break 15-18k/hr. I think we've all been in that situation a few times, where 2-5 people in the party don't know what they are doing, and everybody suffers.

A party like that doesn't have to be a sh*tty party, though... even 6 completely unmerited players can get upwards of 30k/hr (edit - well, ok, maybe 23-25k/hr) at bird camp. All it takes is the proper food (Crab Sushi), the proper buffs (2x March, Fighter's - only in this case with 3xSAM/COR/Evoker's, 2x Ballad), the proper debuffs (Dia II + Light Shot - if up, Elegy, Slow), some good positioning by the puller, and gear sets that turn out to not be completely useless (in this case, the SAMs all manage to have a 6 hit build in spite of their apparent lack of funds).

Are you going to find this type of thing in a pick up party? No, probably not... I wouldn't count on finding that many smart players in my own LS, and it has some of the most well informed players I know of in it. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't try for it, or offer suggestions. Even without going heavily into detail, most people will understand when you tell them something like "Well, I've been parsing this fight, and you're dead last, behind the random skillchain damage and Dia II". And yes, I have told bad DDs stuff like that. They typically drop, or go into a fury for the next few mobs using all their JAs to try and pull hate, then die, then drop. You can bet your ass though, if I get stuck in a pick up party with bad players who refuse to listen to reason, I'm not sticking around.

Edited, Jul 12th 2009 9:48am by TybudX
____________________________
Dooom wrote:
BG elitists <3 haste.

Allatards/uber casuals hate elitists.

Allatards/uber casuals hate haste, as valuing it would acknowledge that elitists are right


kerberoz wrote:
People don't hate emo kids because they're "misunderstood." People hate emo kids because they're useless.


Realix wrote:
PUP is an average to above average DD... when not in a zerg situation... or on particularly hard targets... and when properly configured... on windsday... with a RDM...
#103 Jul 12 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,713 posts
milich wrote:
you are so slow. you've picked up on this infinite chain thing (and i've trolled you repeatedly by using it without quotation or comment, but forgetting that), but you disagreed with me when i mentioned how there's very little difference between average/above-average merit parties and all-6-members-are-fantastic merit parties. i'm sure there's people here who are stupid enough to not notice that disagreement entails affirmation of the opposite opinion; in other words, i'm not putting words in your mouth by (wildly!) assuming that when you disagree with me, you hold the opposite view to mine.


Disagreement in NO way affirms the opposite opinion. That is a logical fallacy.

Here is a basic logical outline of why.
1. Something is
2. Something else is
2 If something is then something else is.

By denying Something is (disagreement) in no way necessarily means that something else is not true. It only means that 1 isnt true. 2 might still be able to be true by other means.

RL example.
1. If Pres washington was assinated he is dead.
2. Pres Washington was not assinated.
3. Therefore Pres Washington is not dead.

Denial of something does not necessarily mean the results of something being true are not still true.

Disagreement implies only that opinion 1 and opinion 2 differ in any way at all. So long as ANY quality of 2 concepts differ in any way, they become dissenting in reference to each other.

Therefore by assuming the opposite you are only living up to the old adage about assumptions and asses.

By disagreeing a person is only ever stating their opinion DIFFERS in some way from yours.

Edited, Jul 12th 2009 11:43am by LordTrey
____________________________
-LordTrey
99 THF, COR, DRK, BLM, WHM, DNC
Twashtar (90)
Leviathan
#104 Jul 12 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
Quote:
but lets face it, a lot of melee are gimp out there.


Quote:
competent melee are hard to come by, always been that way really.


I recommend anyone who does meripo pick-ups should make lists of DD's so over time you hardly ever go wrong.

A simple list of competant DD's in your eyes goes a long way to not ending up with 1 DD (or 2) that makes the whole party suffer. I only started doing this 3-4months back, when i just got fed up of making uber pty's on paper, just become severly dissapointed by certain melee's performances.

____________________________
Taking a break.
#105 Jul 12 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
LordTrey wrote:
milich wrote:
you are so slow. you've picked up on this infinite chain thing (and i've trolled you repeatedly by using it without quotation or comment, but forgetting that), but you disagreed with me when i mentioned how there's very little difference between average/above-average merit parties and all-6-members-are-fantastic merit parties. i'm sure there's people here who are stupid enough to not notice that disagreement entails affirmation of the opposite opinion; in other words, i'm not putting words in your mouth by (wildly!) assuming that when you disagree with me, you hold the opposite view to mine.


Disagreement in NO way affirms the opposite opinion. That is a logical fallacy.

Here is a basic logical outline of why.
1. Something is
2. Something else is
2 If something is then something else is.

By denying Something is (disagreement) in no way necessarily means that something else is not true. It only means that 1 isnt true. 2 might still be able to be true by other means.

RL example.
1. If Pres washington was assinated he is dead.
2. Pres Washington was not assinated.
3. Therefore Pres Washington is not dead.

Denial of something does not necessarily mean the results of something being true are not still true.

Disagreement implies only that opinion 1 and opinion 2 differ in any way at all. So long as ANY quality of 2 concepts differ in any way, they become dissenting in reference to each other.

Therefore by assuming the opposite you are only living up to the old adage about assumptions and asses.

By disagreeing a person is only ever stating their opinion DIFFERS in some way from yours.

Edited, Jul 12th 2009 11:43am by LordTrey


shut up. i have better things to do than listen to someone's accusations of "logical fallacy" when they don't even pay attention to context.

<pahn> "powerful melee don't make a big difference to XP gain after a certain baseline is reached."
<other person> "no you're wrong."

logic quiz: does other person's statement entail that they think powerful melee make a big difference to XP even after a certain baseline is reached? hint: yes.

edit: also, i hope to god you're not a philosophy student... if you are, that "RL example" should make you ashamed of yourself.

"X!"

"not X!"

<you> how can i accurately describe this. oh i know!

<your example>
X -> Y
¬X!
therefore, ¬Y!

ok i have to go, but if you don't see how stupid you're being, i'm sorry.

Edited, Jul 12th 2009 3:54pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#106 Jul 12 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
49 posts
This thread has been going on for so long I'm kind of confused what people (particularly Pahn, Carrilei, and RVW) are arguing about. Not here to start any fights just trying to get the gist of what everyone's saying.

Pahn's arguing that due to respawn times and the finite number of mobs at a merit camp there's very little you can do to increase the max xp/hr and cor dd adding to killing speed is helpful but ultimately negligible when paired with competent dds?

Carrilei and RVW are saying that maxing out the damage potential of every party member(cor in particular) adds a significant increase to killing speed and thus xp/hr (the 33k/hr example)?

Just pointing out I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouths so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to understand what you people have been arguing about for the past couple pages.
#107 Jul 12 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Excellent
****
7,094 posts
milich wrote:
how powerful does a party have to be to put out 4k~ damage every 20-25 seconds? what min-maxing are you talking about besides eating proper food and using sensible buffs? how much of the 4k~ damage comes from BRD RDM COR buffs/debuffs, and how much from gear/"min/maxing"? you complain about "infinite chain" but throw around "min/maxing" like it's nothing (what, like the 1% DoT i spent 2m~ on haub+1 for? that's going to break my next party over 40k/hr).

Let's be really honest, then.

The entire reason you are participating in this discussion is because you don't think COR DDing makes any difference (see: "seriously, if you have a BRD and 2 other good melee, chances are your DD contribution isn't speeding much up"). This is not Haub+1 vs. e.body, or Speed vs. Swift, or Onimaru vs. Hagun. This is standing-around-scratching-your-ass vs. Joy/M.Kris TP/WS. And you claim that it makes no real difference whatsoever; if you get 20k without it, you'll get 20k/hr with it. This is the problem I have with your posts in this thread.

It's one thing to claim that obsessing over /RNG vs. /WAR, Joy vs. M.Kris, Martial Gun vs. Coffinmaker are pedantic min-maxing that (individually) won't make a noticeable impact on your exp/hr. That sentiment is fundamentally valid. What is NOT valid is to claim that it really doesn't matter what a COR does, because the results will be the same anyway.

Damage is damage. I daresay that amount of damage added by a DDing COR (compared to one that doesn't) is just as significant as choosing which buffs to use.

Quote:
and going beyond the usual 20k/hr (which the people who disagree with me "obviously" have experienced far less than because... because... well they must have parses showing it that they forgot to save) is totally due to heavy DDs and not march*2 + haste + hasso + dia and such.

Not that you don't already know this, but the reason why people (including, notably, yourself) practically never bother to post "parses" of their exp/hr is because most of the popular parsers (DirectParse, KParser, FFXIParser) do not have an easy/reliable way to determine exp/hr.

Furthermore, with regard to this discussion, what would posting a parse of exp/hr prove, exactly? You don't claim that it's impossible to get >20k/hr, you just think COR has nothing to do with it. If I were to (somehow) post a parse of myself getting 33k/hr at bird camp, I imagine you'd just say "you would have gotten that anyway even if you weren't DDing."

It's a waste of time.
____________________________
Terraxia - RNG/COR/THF - Midgardsormr/Quetzalcoatl (boxed)
Viper Beam - ARC/CRP - Fabul
#108 Jul 12 2009 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,054 posts
Quote:
Martial Gun vs. Coffinmaker


Off-topic question: I've been wondering if its worth droping 700-800k on a martial. How much acc does martial gun give to slugshot at 100%tp? 20? 30? more?
____________________________
Quote:
You can't transform numbers into other numbers like that. It'd just go on forever. That's like witchcraft.


There's one guy I know who
Quote:
is a big deal now.
#109 Jul 12 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
Quote:
Off-topic question: I've been wondering if its worth droping 700-800k on a martial. How much acc does martial gun give to slugshot at 100%tp? 20? 30? more?


I'm not sure anyone knows the true acc formula for Slugshot. Suffice it to say the most commonely held belief is that at 200 tp the acc is similar to a regular shot. So a slug at 100 tp with martial is about as accurate as your standard shot.

If that helps.
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#110 Jul 12 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,713 posts
Quote:
shut up. i have better things to do than listen to someone's accusations of "logical fallacy" when they don't even pay attention to context.

<pahn> "powerful melee don't make a big difference to XP gain after a certain baseline is reached."
<other person> "no you're wrong."

logic quiz: does other person's statement entail that they think powerful melee make a big difference to XP even after a certain baseline is reached? hint: yes.

edit: also, i hope to god you're not a philosophy student... if you are, that "RL example" should make you ashamed of yourself.

"X!"

"not X!"

<you> how can i accurately describe this. oh i know!

<your example>
X -> Y
¬X!
therefore, ¬Y!

ok i have to go, but if you don't see how stupid you're being, i'm sorry.



LOL boy are you wrong. That is the fallacy of denying the antecedent. While X does cause Y it is not the only thing that can (potentially). Let me look up the ONLY 2 proper simple logical comparison forms and post them. (one of these is modus Tollens, the other is Modus Pollens if my memory serves)

I know 1 is
X ->Y
!Y
therefor not X

The other I believe is
X -> Y
X
Therefore, Y

Yeah, you can confirm the antecedent or deny the consequent, BUT not vise versa. Denying the antecedent and confirming the conquest do not make a statement necessarily true.

No I am not a Philosophy student, I studied History. But I have taken plenty of logic classes and a Philosophy or two.

As to you melee example with a baselines: The person saying no your wrong could think there is no baseline which matters. There are few to no other options that can be taken from that particular statement. But you wrote it to exibit that quality. It still does have more than one possible diagreement. One could be argueing that DD never make a difference in EXP, or that no baseline exists that more DD sloes down exp. If we use the same from and replace the context with another similar argument we can see how many different meanings can come from that disagreement as well.
If the line were to read "DD make a big difference to exp even if a baseline is reached" then disagreement could mean that they don't, or it could be that they think support jobs make a big difference once a baseline is reached, or even that pulling is the main factor. Disagreement does not imply the exact opposite at all. Only a differing opinion.

Lastly, context never matters when fallacious logic was used in the first place. And My example perfectly illistrates the fallacy you are commiting with the statemnt
Quote:
i'm sure there's people here who are stupid enough to not notice that disagreement entails affirmation of the opposite opinion; in other words, i'm not putting words in your mouth by (wildly!) assuming that when you disagree with me, you hold the opposite view to mine.


Hope you are happy about being wrong.

PS. telling me to shut up will never work.


Edited, Jul 12th 2009 5:02pm by LordTrey
____________________________
-LordTrey
99 THF, COR, DRK, BLM, WHM, DNC
Twashtar (90)
Leviathan
#111 Jul 12 2009 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
LordTrey wrote:
Quote:
shut up. i have better things to do than listen to someone's accusations of "logical fallacy" when they don't even pay attention to context.

<pahn> "powerful melee don't make a big difference to XP gain after a certain baseline is reached."
<other person> "no you're wrong."

logic quiz: does other person's statement entail that they think powerful melee make a big difference to XP even after a certain baseline is reached? hint: yes.

edit: also, i hope to god you're not a philosophy student... if you are, that "RL example" should make you ashamed of yourself.

"X!"

"not X!"

<you> how can i accurately describe this. oh i know!

<your example>
X -> Y
¬X!
therefore, ¬Y!

ok i have to go, but if you don't see how stupid you're being, i'm sorry.



LOL boy are you wrong. That is the fallacy of denying the antecedent. While X does cause Y it is not the only thing that can (potentially). Let me look up the ONLY 2 proper simple logical comparison forms and post them. (one of these is modus Tollens, the other is Modus Pollens if my memory serves)

I know 1 is
X ->Y
!Y
therefor not X

The other I believe is
X -> Y
X
Therefore, Y

Yeah, you can confirm the antecedent or deny the consequent, BUT not vise versa. Denying the antecedent and confirming the conquest do not make a statement necessarily true.

No I am not a Philosophy student, I studied History. But I have taken plenty of logic classes and a Philosophy or two.

As to you melee example with a baselines: The person saying no your wrong could think there is no baseline which matters. There are few to no other options that can be taken from that particular statement. But you wrote it to exibit that quality. It still does have more than one possible diagreement. One could be argueing that DD never make a difference in EXP, or that no baseline exists that more DD sloes down exp. If we use the same from and replace the context with another similar argument we can see how many different meanings can come from that disagreement as well.
If the line were to read "DD make a big difference to exp even if a baseline is reached" then disagreement could mean that they don't, or it could be that they think support jobs make a big difference once a baseline is reached, or even that pulling is the main factor. Disagreement does not imply the exact opposite at all. Only a differing opinion.

Lastly, context never matters when fallacious logic was used in the first place. And My example perfectly illistrates the fallacy you are commiting with the statemnt
Quote:
i'm sure there's people here who are stupid enough to not notice that disagreement entails affirmation of the opposite opinion; in other words, i'm not putting words in your mouth by (wildly!) assuming that when you disagree with me, you hold the opposite view to mine.


Hope you are happy about being wrong.

PS. telling me to shut up will never work.


Edited, Jul 12th 2009 5:02pm by LordTrey


it's not fallacious logic, you pretentious moron. i didn't say: "you said X -> Y? well notX so notY!" i said "X!" and someone else said "notX!" if you think i'm wrong for accusing them of believing any of the things entailed by notX, you are a fool.

edit: p.s. the first you mentioned is tollens, the second ponens.

Edited, Jul 12th 2009 9:28pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#112 Jul 12 2009 at 5:31 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,054 posts
MR mice!
MR not!
MR2.
CMEDBD feet.
LIB,
MR mice.
____________________________
Quote:
You can't transform numbers into other numbers like that. It'd just go on forever. That's like witchcraft.


There's one guy I know who
Quote:
is a big deal now.
#113 Jul 12 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
299 posts
Is there a term for swinging peen in a forum?

If not, should we call it forum-peen or just f-peen for short? That's really what this thread has devolved into. People swinging their gargantuan forum-peens around like they were kraken clubs.

I think assuming anyone (read: ANYONE) can ICP (infinite chain pt) is just plain wrong. The reason why most people get into "omgchain100" mode is because.. they don't do it often. I've been in plenty of pts that could do it and plenty that could not. There are SOOOO many variables involved.

I also think that claiming anyone can ICP and it's easy is a way of saying, in a roundabout fashion, "look at me, I'm so great, i can chain infinitely without even trying." I don't feel that adds anything of value to the discussion, just people stroking their f-peens.

Simply gathering a RDM, a BRD, a COR and 3 DDs is not = 20k/hour. It's just not. You actually do need at least a little quality involved. The RDM needs to be able to manages its MP, the BRD needs to be a competent puller, the DDs need to play attentively and the COR should contribute too. Also helps not to have ppl at the other camp (birds) stealing your mobs. Should the avg pt be able to do 20k/hour? Yeah. Does that mean they all do? Nope.

As for the COR dmg aspect, if kill speed and pull speed (and not running out of mobs) are the key variants, I'm not sure how anyone can say that removing.. let's be really harsh on a good COR and say 15% dmg from the equation will have little or no effect.

I'm lowballing that number quite a bit from my own experience. I've never parsed below 22% in any pt I've been in on COR (oooops, /em tucks f-peen back inside my seraweels). However, it seems likely to me that if you filled the pt with extremely well-geared DDs, that I'd probabl drop below 20%. If running out of mobs is not an issue, then tossing away even 15% is slowing you down.

Especially on birds. Let's say a couple of these magnificent DDs eat the tp reset move. lol im at work and I cant believe I can't think of it's name lmao. That's one of the ways a chain can die though usually it's when 1 of the DDs is significantly better and has the hate and you lose your top WS when that takes place.

Maybe someday one of us should parse a pt on COR and spend 30 minutes DDing our asses off then stop the parse. Restart a new parse then just sit on our asses for 30 minutes.

But honestly, in the avg merit pt, having my COR sit around and do nothing is just about equal to having one of the DDs go afk for the entirety of the pt. Should they still be able to ICP? They SHOULD, tbh. But, for whatever reason, a lo of the pts don't.

I don't believe you need a COR DD to ICP. One of my fave pts ever was a pt with my SAM, a WAR, a RDM a BRD and I want to say 2 other DDs but I honestly don't recall. There was definitely no COR there. Anyway, we picked up about chain 206 or 208 or so before one DD dced and another left. The WAR and I were the only DDs left and by the time replacements arrived, the chain was over 230. From that experience alone, I can say you don't even need 6 people to ICP. Yet it's still absolutely true that a lot of full merit pts simply can't pull it off.

I think the reason for this is many of them are riding the time limit too much to begin with. You lose TP or someone sits on tp with the bird at 15% instead of killing it asap, another pt yoinks a bird from your camp... a number of things can derail it. Someone constantly afking for short periods of time.

Me and the WAR were definitely riding the time limit and we knew it. If we had tp at 15% and knew time was short, we used it. I think the main reason we pulled it off was obviously meditate. Any time a chain is in jeopardy and med is up, that's a huge boost.

But just "ICP" alone isn't 20k/hour and certainly not 30k+/hour. You need to pwn everything in sight and fast. And if birds are part or most of the equation, I think you'd be stupid to claim that a good COR DD doesn't make any difference at all.
#114 Jul 13 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
TDGSW wrote:
I also think that claiming anyone can ICP and it's easy is a way of saying, in a roundabout fashion, "look at me, I'm so great, i can chain infinitely without even trying." I don't feel that adds anything of value to the discussion, just people stroking their f-peens.


not going to read the rest of your post because i don't care, but no. by any chance do you know how much HP colibri generally have, and how much damage a melee generates with various common buffs? why don't you swing your "i'm-a-reasonable-poster-for-the-people"-peen my way and answer me that.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#115 Jul 13 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,713 posts
Using ICP in that context makes my brain hurt.

And if you parse over 20% in your merit parties, you have some really bad DDs, or at best a mix of strong and weak.
____________________________
-LordTrey
99 THF, COR, DRK, BLM, WHM, DNC
Twashtar (90)
Leviathan
#116 Jul 13 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
Quote:
And if you parse over 20% in your merit parties, you have some really bad DDs, or at best a mix of strong and weak.


I also think, the better DD you have the less you should be parsing.

For good COR's - Parsing 20% means theres something wrong with your DD's
For good COR's - Parsing 10% means you melee are good and doing their job well
____________________________
Taking a break.
#117 Jul 13 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
****
5,159 posts
Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
And if you parse over 20% in your merit parties, you have some really bad DDs, or at best a mix of strong and weak.


I also think, the better DD you have the less you should be parsing.

For good COR's - Parsing 20% means theres something wrong with your DD's
For good COR's - Parsing 10% means you melee are good and doing their job well

True, though I think 10% is rather low, at least if it's a COR + 3 DD party. The lowest I ever heard of parsing was 13%, and that was with a few really good 2h when they broke 2h for that period of time. I probably would've parsed at least 15% without the 2h brokenness - and that's the number I've usually found to be the case when a good COR is with 3 other good DD (15%). I think with premier all-around gear (and the right execution) that can creep up to 16~19ish.

Edited, Jul 13th 2009 8:25pm by Carrilei
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#118 Jul 13 2009 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
299 posts
Quote:
not going to read the rest of your post because i don't care, but no. by any chance do you know how much HP colibri generally have, and how much damage a melee generates with various common buffs? why don't you swing your "i'm-a-reasonable-poster-for-the-people"-peen my way and answer me that.


Lol wow, you just don't ever stop do you? I see you not only capped your ability to be completely condescending but you also merited it. cg! At least you picked up that it was (mostly) about your attitude that I was referring to. You come off as a "i know everything about everything" type who thinks everyone else is beneath him. Are you even a COR? That's a good question. Doesn't say so in your sig but you only have 3 jobs listed and I'm sure you have more than that.

Let's do some math. I can hit a 2k slug and remove about 40% of a colibri's life on my own. So gonna say colibris have 6.5K or so HP on average.

As for how much a melee generates, you know damn well that absolutely depends on the player. I can't even tell you how much a SAM generates because I just saw a SAM parse 15% in a pt i parsed 31.5% in on the same job.

What exactly are you contesting here? Oh wait, you didn't even read it. Nice start. But what I said rings absolutely true. "Oh i soloed Kirin, it's easy.. a retard could solo Kirin" same type of thing. 30k+ parties are not typical. That's a fact. They are possible but not typical. Why do you think some people get all excited about chain 100? Because they don't achieve it all that much, regardless of whether it's hard or easy or not. So, yes the "infinite chains are easy, retards could do it in their sleep" type attitudes pretty much makes you exactly what I said it did. You feel the need to stroke your peen in these forums the same way DDs do in merit pts. You can't even stop yourself lol. You're stroking it right now as you read this =o. Please stop, it's freaking me out :P.

On the occasions you actually do add something worthwhile to the discussion, you are incapable of doing it without being condescending or insulting to whoever it is your replying to/flaming/whatever it is you think you're doing. You'll earn far more respect by dropping the attitude but then I'm assuming you actuall give a damn about respect. Silly me.

I don't throw around the word "elitist" just like you apparently never use the word "princess" lol. I've seen the term used by people on these forums to describe other people and you fit that category more than anyone else I've seen. 1) that's not a compliment lol. Don' get it twisted. 2) I freely admit to only really checking out the COR forums for the most part, occasionally SAM, general blah blah. My 200something posts should tell you I don't spend my life on here like you and your 6K+ posts must. Whoa, 8.6k even.

So if there are people out there who managed to come across as more insulting and I simply don't know about them, I apologize to them for marginalizing their "contributions" to the community lol.

Seriously, on a personal note, do you ever reply to a post without trying to get into a forum-peen/pissing contest with someone? Is that all you do? Cuz it's all I see you do. Anyone else seen this guy do something other than that?

Facts are facts. 30k/icp pts are not typical or just guaranteed because a certain set of jobs show up. The difference between the 75s (on ANY job) who are close to the ceiling of that job and those who aren't is MASSIVE. You clearly must know that. Should 2 really strong DDs be enough to carry a chain? Yes. I've done it with just 2. I've also seen a lot of chains die before 100 for various reasons. If you consider that a pt that can chain 7 can ICP, I find that to be mistaken. To geniunely ICP (lets stick an at least chain 100 stipulation on it), you can't be riding the time limit every time because eventually you'll lose tp, miss a WS, have some other pt steal a bird from your camp, whatever and that'll be that. Someone will get their TP eaten or some poor unfortunate DD will penta thrust at the same moment as a COR slug shots and do about 200 dmg instead of 1k+ and neither one has tp the next fight. I just love how ppl throw around 30k+/hour like it's expected of everyone. Your average player and I'd say even most of the above-average ones aren't doing that. You can argue that they should, certainly, but you can't argue that they are because they just aren't. Not up for debate.

Maybe you are one of those types who refuse to pt with normal ppl. For someone who claims to know so much about the game, I can't believe you could be so out of touch with what a normal merit pt is actually like. If you think 30k/hour just magically falls from the sky, then you're crazy.

I've been in plenty of pts that couldn't dream of 30k and I've been in some that could pull it off. Again, let's claim a good DD COR would represent 15% of dmg in a pt. Assume 30 seconds per kill, seems reasonable enough. OK, take the COR's gun away and you drop to what? 35 seconds a kill? maybe more? Over the course of an hour, that's like 10 minutes gone. At 30 seconds a kill, that's 20 colibris. With COR roll up, that's a lot of xp. 4K+. If repops are not an issue, there's no way losing dmg helps XP gain. No way.

So once again, what are you contesting? The only part of my post you apparently read was where I accused you or playing pocket pool with your f-peen while you spout off about how much everyone else sucks and how unbelievably easy everything in this game is. You don't think that attitude brands you in the minds of other people as one of those types? "In a word, no" Why don't we ask them?

P.S. let me know if you actually got this far in the post. Knowing that you read the whole thing this time would really make my whole day :D.
#119 Jul 13 2009 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
299 posts
Quote:
I also think, the better DD you have the less you should be parsing.

For good COR's - Parsing 20% means theres something wrong with your DD's
For good COR's - Parsing 10% means you melee are good and doing their job well


Absolutely agree on the first part. Impossible not to. The better DD surrounding you, the lower % you should parse. The lower % my COR parses, the better the pt was (unless for some reason I had an off day).

I don't know where a COR should rank %wise in a strong pt or exactly how you would define a strong pt. 10% seems low to me just based on how much slug shot owns birds. Not sure if a COR parsing more than 20% = bad pt tho. Bad if the COR did nothing? sure. Not like these pts were struggling to chain but they weren't cleaning house for 30k/hour either. They were, imo, typical avg merit pts. Good enough to chain pretty high, not good enough for 30K/hour or not good enough to consistently get that kill in time (late pull, tp eaten, TP spammed at same time resulting in overkill, anything like that).
#120 Jul 13 2009 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
you write too much. i'm way too bored with this topic to read almost any of it. if i recall, you were saying that "infinite chain is common" was some sort of epeen swinging. it's not. if you're trying hard to craft your wit and if it's at all for my benefit, make it more concise, because otherwise it's going to go to waste. if you've got fans reading all that garbage though, by all means carry on.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#121 Jul 14 2009 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
Carrelei wrote:

True, though I think 10% is rather low, at least if it's a COR + 3 DD party. The lowest I ever heard of parsing was 13%, and that was with a few really good 2h when they broke 2h for that period of time. I probably would've parsed at least 15% without the 2h brokenness - and that's the number I've usually found to be the case when a good COR is with 3 other good DD (15%). I think with premier all-around gear (and the right execution) that can creep up to 16~19ish.


Not sure Carrelei, because i've been pty-ing with some pretty brokenly good SAM's, WAR's, MNK's, and DRK's atm, Including an Apoc Taru who is just meaty.

Having COR aswell, I can compare, but my gear is'nt nearly as pristine as yours (got M.Kris, Martial gun, DFG, hermes etc) but no skadi, and unfortunately, to my utter dissapointment, no AF+1.

I would like however, if you could parse a pty with 3 reputable DD's on your server. Sam's, War's, Drk's, BB Mnk's etc, just so I can see just how a cor with similar quality gear actually does. If you could reach 15% total DMG, that leave 28% each for the rest.



I'd think 10% total dmg, along with the ~25%DMG increase you give every one from Chaos roll is amazing, but if you reckon you can reach 15% i'd like to see :). Make it good tho with screen shots of the gears or somthing to back up the parse.



For my experiance also, at the level 57 Lesser coli camp, Because the Bard's don't sing Haste then, Double Minuet + DRK in pty Chaos roll + RNG in pty Hunter roll + C.Sub + DiaII = 1.5-1.7K Slugs (considering our low dmg gun + bullet), SW > SS + Distortion takes the mob from 100% HP to 0. I know thats the time my Cor has been at its biggest % total dmg. DoT is actually great then too with each shot doing ~200dmg+.


Edited, Jul 14th 2009 9:03am by Sandmasterr
____________________________
Taking a break.
#122 Jul 14 2009 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
TDGSW wrote:
Not sure if a COR parsing more than 20% = bad pt tho. Bad if the COR did nothing? sure.



If you merit with really pimp DD, theres noway you could hit 20% total dmg. if you did, that means these pimp 2H DD only managed 26%-27% total dmg each. Buffing takes upto 5-15secs per buff too, in the good pty's, a bird will KO in 10-15secs.

I <3 COR, I <3 it a lot, i have the up-most respect for the job, (but only respect about 5% of CORs in game, stupid gimps), but you have to look at it none bias. If you think you can reach 20% in a pty with good War's, Sam's, Mnk's, Drk's, then those DD's are not good. A Well made bird meripo will see them KO within 10-25secs, every 5-6 mins, your spending ~10% of the time buffing (based on three 10second buffs in 5mins)

The DD out put is simply not as meaty either, we can pop off great ws's wit h work. War's, Drk's, Sam's can put out just as good ws dmg, and have DoT that reach's ~40% of their total dmg. MNK's Asurans only account for 10% of their total dmg, their DoT accounts for 90% (strange, but true). A COR simply can't keep up with power house DD's like that. Not the well geared, 'good at their job' DD's anyway.

i dunno, rate up's for all recent posts on thread as it seems someone has ben rating posts down (personal warefare perhaps o.O). Just keep this debate light.
____________________________
Taking a break.
#123 Jul 14 2009 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
****
5,159 posts
Sandmasterr wrote:
I would like however, if you could parse a pty with 3 reputable DD's on your server. Sam's, War's, Drk's, BB Mnk's etc, just so I can see just how a cor with similar quality gear actually does. If you could reach 15% total DMG, that leave 28% each for the rest.

My COR merits are capped & gear is under construction lol. I think I've joined one merit party in the last 6 months, and that was just to get some feel for /Dnc in that setting. I definitely plan to merit in a few months though, to at least finish THF merits and get a feel for how everything I'm working on has turned out. I'm on 360, so I can't parse or screenshot anything, but I'm sure I can find someone who can.. So at that point I'll try to get 3 (very) strong DD together and see what happens.

I'm not big on parses though.. Parsing higher doesn't always mean you're performing better, especially on COR. Whatever I do then, I could probably use MK, contribute a lot more empty damage, and parse a percentage point higher. Also, even with Joy, there's no point in Slugging at 5% in a normal situation, but if you're only concerned with parsing well it's the way to do that. Soo my point is, a parse from me would show what Joyeuse is doing in a somewhat-restrained manner; not trying to parse as high as I can, but doing whatever I think is best for the task at hand (rate of exp).

There are things I do put stock in from parsing though.. Acc % (for the weapon you're using - Joy will be lower than MK), WS average, and WS hit rate.

It would be fun though, to (at least once) go berserk with MK, and WS like a maniac. Could be a good comparison to how I think I "should" play (more conservatively with Joy). The only issue with experimenting with an off-the-wall MK playstyle would be that'd I'd require a lot of work to stay above 0 HP...
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#124 Jul 14 2009 at 3:07 AM Rating: Good
**
910 posts
When I read about DD COR, it just makes me think about a COR that slacks off on his buffing duty so he can shoot more.
I know BRD are allowed to slack off in the buff so that they can keep XP chains alive, I hope DD COR don't do that so they can post about big numbers.
____________________________
Cutaru BST lvl 75 on Gilgamesh.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?158212
BCNM/KSNM Can I have it ?
#125 Jul 14 2009 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
****
5,159 posts
SeeYouTaru wrote:
When I read about DD COR, it just makes me think about a COR that slacks off on his buffing duty so he can shoot more.
I know BRD are allowed to slack off in the buff so that they can keep XP chains alive, I hope DD COR don't do that so they can post about big numbers.

No, nothing is to be compromised from the support aspects of the job.
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#126 Jul 14 2009 at 5:49 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
*****
11,496 posts
SeeYouTaru wrote:
When I read about DD COR, it just makes me think about a COR that slacks off on his buffing duty so he can shoot more.
I know BRD are allowed to slack off in the buff so that they can keep XP chains alive, I hope DD COR don't do that so they can post about big numbers.


That's what I see happen even more so lately..CORs start slacking off on buffing so they can focus on the DD aspect.
#127 Jul 14 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,713 posts
Odd, I have only ever seen CORs slacking on the DD department and just buffing. Mostly its rare as hell to find DD CORs running around.
____________________________
-LordTrey
99 THF, COR, DRK, BLM, WHM, DNC
Twashtar (90)
Leviathan
#128 Jul 14 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
Quote:
It would be fun though, to (at least once) go berserk with MK, and WS like a maniac. Could be a good comparison to how I think I "should" play (more conservatively with Joy). The only issue with experimenting with an off-the-wall MK playstyle would be that'd I'd require a lot of work to stay above 0 HP...


Only struggle left is to convince the mage to include you in the Haste cycle.

If they refuse to give you haste, you can always refuse to give them Evoker's, or to leave your Luzaf's off when using Corsair's hehe
____________________________
Taking a break.
#129 Jul 14 2009 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,159 posts
Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
It would be fun though, to (at least once) go berserk with MK, and WS like a maniac. Could be a good comparison to how I think I "should" play (more conservatively with Joy). The only issue with experimenting with an off-the-wall MK playstyle would be that'd I'd require a lot of work to stay above 0 HP...


Only struggle left is to convince the mage to include you in the Haste cycle.

If they refuse to give you haste, you can always refuse to give them Evoker's, or to leave your Luzaf's off when using Corsair's hehe

I avoid playing with mages that don't want to Haste me. The good ones do.
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#130 Jul 14 2009 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
2,448 posts
Holy sh*t. Lots of mud in here. o_O and no screenshots of the battle damage...anyway.

I only read through the 3rd page and the first page, and i thought the FIRST page was pretty bad with the arguing.

I haven't partied hardcor at 75 yet. I ding'd 75 in a sync party, and only went to 2 merit parties and then stopped to get gear and detonator and more gil to prep for mass merit spam. In the time I leveled from 65~75, I was almost always the main puller aside from 5 or less parties where I had a BRD who was willing to pull instead. Having said that, I have not been confident in which DD sub is the best choice for my gear and merits. I've been trying to figure it out without asking here. I won't ask yet! But now that you know my level of experience in merit parties at 75, let me share two observations and a quote:

Fynlar wrote:

Yeah, you should try to do some damage. Just remember that no matter how good you are at it, the vast majority of people are going to view you like they do a BRD. Bottom line -- when people invite a COR, they are doing it to fill a support/"BRD" slot, not a DD slot. And nobody ever cares about a BRD's damage. They aren't going to magically start caring about yours. Feel free to spend 100k or so per party on consumables if you like; just don't be surprised if you find that the only person that cares is you.


Observation#1
You may not want this quote to be true, but I have a prime example to share.
It's not a screenshot, but I can edit or reply within the next 48 hours as I'm sure he'll still be LFP in the normal hours. The same COR for three nights now I have watched him have his flag up for 2-4 hours and not get an invite. I know he's not AFK, because I watch him put the flag up. I watched him move around whitegate. His seacom looks like this:
{Fisherman} {No thanks.}
{Level Sync} {No thanks.}
{White Mage} X

Observation#2
Brd's are invited to buff.
Cor's are also invited to buff.
A majority of the time, a Brd is also asked to pull, however this is not a set-in-stone task every BRD must do.
A majority of the time, a Cor is invited to be a brd replacement, or a compliment.

There is one big difference between us though. The moment we use a weaponskill, even once every 3 mobs, while pulling and buffing without missing a beat and keeping pace like a BRD, we're already better than the(a) BRD. The only person who cares about how much damage we do more than a Brd, is ourselves.

So, are you going to do 1k more damage than 0, or 2k more damage than 0? The key is that you never lose sight of being the BRD replacement if thats what your job is for that party. If you are a compliment to a BRD, offer to pull for them instead sometimes. Hey, if you can pull at the same pace they would, and keep buffs up, and still WS every 3, or even 5 mobs...you're being more effective than they are. If they still want to pull, then slap on the DD sub and go to town. But being a 'DD cor' to where you limit yourself to only one aspect of our job is going to leave you LFP more times than a COR or BRD should ever be LFP.

I'm not saying it's pointless to do damage, but it IS pointless to bicker about how -much- damage we do, because a majority of our invites aren't going to be from someone expecting us to do damage. They're going to expect us to be like a BRD+1, and even with poor performance of using a weapon skill once in a blue moon already performs this BRD+1 standard. All the epeen 'WE ARE DD' attitude around here had me seriously worried about trying to merit at 75, here I was thinking I am going to blow chunks because I can't put up huge numbers. Then I realized I put up more numbers than a BRD does, and I felt a lot better about it.


So anyway. Speaking of all the mud in here. Like I said at the beginning. Where's all the authentic battle damage?!
____________________________
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Lacaan Vasiim:Cactuar
Free Company:Cactuar Corp<CCorp>
catwho wrote:
If you need a bard to get "good exp" in a merit party, you're the weakest link.
#131 Jul 15 2009 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
***
2,607 posts
Quote:
So, are you going to do 1k more damage than 0, or 2k more damage than 0? The key is that you never lose sight of being the BRD replacement if thats what your job is for that party. If you are a compliment to a BRD, offer to pull for them instead sometimes. Hey, if you can pull at the same pace they would, and keep buffs up, and still WS every 3, or even 5 mobs...you're being more effective than they are. If they still want to pull, then slap on the DD sub and go to town. But being a 'DD cor' to where you limit yourself to only one aspect of our job is going to leave you LFP more times than a COR or BRD should ever be LFP.


I think you've misunderstood somewhere down the line.

No Cor is saying ing there /seacom 'BUFF NO THANKS, DD ONLY'. Its common knowledge that aside from buffs, a cor either pulls or DD's or /dnc supports (or in gimps/jap's cases - /whm).

A Brd's buffs last less than half the time cor buffs do, so they spend more time re-aplying. They also have some great de-buff songs tp apply to each mob (notably, lulaby to hold the mob, and Elegy to make the whole pty's time easier). Many ppl say that BRD pty's go smoothly, but its not only the buffs that do thatm its Elegy too. BRD's also have a tone of MP gear they are put on.
BRD's can combine buffing, debuffing and pulling to make them arguably the best buffers and best pullers in the game.

COR on the other hand, spends alot less time buffing. If theres a BRD in the pty, and we're asked to pull, it means the pty is not using its resources
correctly. We can deliver a constant flow of DMG to support out buffing.

I still don't see why so many ppl fail to comprehend this fact. BRD's and COR's are DIFFERENT jobs. Other than ACC/ATT/Refresh, our buffs are different. The way the jobs should be played are different.

BRD's can: BUFF, DEBUFF, PULL, CURE SUPPORT WELL
COR's can: BUFF, DD, PULL, /DNC SUPPORT, /MAGE ENDGAME SUPPORT, + extra's (most notably QD enhance debuff + DMG)

Making your COR DD should not even be an 'issue'. All our main gears have RACC + RATT on it. We can also make a haste/acc melee tp set for joy or Mkris or daggers with ease reaching at least 15% Haste. Get a gun, level MArksmanship, shoot bullets and do the DD side well.

No Job out of COR or BRD is more effective than the other, if both are being used to their full potentials.

Just becasue cor can DD, does'nt make BRD less effective. There a different job altogether with the only real common ground being buff's.


____________________________
Taking a break.
#132 Jul 15 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
Quote:
I'm not saying it's pointless to do damage, but it IS pointless to bicker about how -much- damage we do, because a majority of our invites aren't going to be from someone expecting us to do damage.


While this is becomingly increasingly true as more COR's are playing in a BRD-wannabe style, it still doesn't excuse COR"s from making an effort to do educate the populace about what a COR brings to the party.

I had a party invite last night where, once again, I was asked to play the roll of BRD puller and run around bringing in birds and sleep staging them for the melee while applying buffs. I asked the party leader after the invite if he was getting a BRD and he said, "Why get a BRD when we have a COR? Is BRD + COR any good?" I told him that the only parties I've ever been in that broke 15k xp/hr were COR + BRD. He laid me some BS about making 18k/hr the other night with 5 DD's and a RDM. Then our party proceeded to make about 12k xp/hr. Just short of endless chaining with WAR/NIN dual wielding axes, 2 SAM/THF's and a DRK/SAM. That's the state of affairs in most PUGs on my server.

I've been in 8k xp/hr parties and 25k xp/hr parties and the big difference between the two is the good parties bring a BRD + COR and they expect the COR to bring a DD sub. If I don't see that committment from the party leader then I know We'll never get top notch xp. And I think that's what this board is really saying. We've seen meriting from both sides and universally the best xp/hr remains a BRD + COR + RDM + 3 DD with COR subbing a DD sub and taking the spot of a DD, not as a BRD replacement.
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#133 Jul 16 2009 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,770 posts
Spikido of the Seven Seas wrote:

And yes, while an average cor can and should be able to parse ~15% ... a good cor can and should be able to parse ~20% on birds only. It's not that hard with the right gear and roll cycle. (I'm strictly referring to merits here though)


Fixed...
#134 Jul 17 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
Dartagnann wrote:
I've been in 8k xp/hr parties and 25k xp/hr parties and the big difference between the two is the good parties bring a BRD + COR and they expect the COR to bring a DD sub.


fuckin sad. i've BRD'd for 4 gimp /NINs and an average RDM and made 20k. i feel like we're not even talking about the same game.

this thread is terrible.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#135 Jul 17 2009 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
951 posts
LordTrey wrote:
Odd, I have only ever seen CORs slacking on the DD department and just buffing. Mostly its rare as hell to find DD CORs running around.

I've seen both sadly.

On topic, I don't see how it's that hard to DD on COR and keep buffs up. The way I see it when your double up chance wears off take that as a sign to get ready to throw up your next roll.
____________________________
Corrderio of Carbuncle
http://corrderio.livejournal.com

75 WAR|75 PLD|75 BLU|75 COR
#136 Jul 17 2009 at 4:36 AM Rating: Good
***
1,137 posts
I have both BRD and COR, and I must say out of the 550+ merits I have (mostly earned on BRD and COR) I find that its typically not worth it for me to go COR over BRD. Sure, I have a DD COR (middle of the road items and max merits focused for DD COR) and sure, I make more exp in these parties where I am COR and there is a BRD/NIN pulling. But the problem is its only about 3k more exp per hour (it takes me to about 25k EXP from 21-22k on my BRD). I shoot for TP, so realistically I burn about 50k in gil every hour to make roughly 3k more exp on average. To me, the tradeoff just isnt worth it.

Now, of course there are situations where a DD COR can mean 8k more exp/hour, but I find this is only the case with A) 3 well geared DD are in the pt B) we have a BRD and C) we are at the North Mamool camp through Nyzul -> Thickets. Sadly, about 90% of the time only 2 (or less) of those stipulations are present.
____________________________
Manifest, Valefor
BST/PLD/COR/BRD/WAR/THF/SMN/BLM/WHM 99
RDM/SCH/DNC/NIN/WAR/SAM/RNG 49
PUP 30, BLU 16

Maniken, Valefor
WHM/DRG/BRD/MNK/RDM/WAR/BLM 99
SCH/NIN/SAM/BST 49
BLU 16

Linkshell: ChaoticUnion

Sozu Rogberry(pre Thf Knife patch): 0/49 ><
#137 Jul 17 2009 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
***
1,137 posts
The one positive thing I will try to take from this thread is going /WAR to merits. I also hit Slug Shot 90% of the time (thanks to 8/8 Marksmanship and middle of the road racc gear), so I want to try /WAR to push my damage further.
____________________________
Manifest, Valefor
BST/PLD/COR/BRD/WAR/THF/SMN/BLM/WHM 99
RDM/SCH/DNC/NIN/WAR/SAM/RNG 49
PUP 30, BLU 16

Maniken, Valefor
WHM/DRG/BRD/MNK/RDM/WAR/BLM 99
SCH/NIN/SAM/BST 49
BLU 16

Linkshell: ChaoticUnion

Sozu Rogberry(pre Thf Knife patch): 0/49 ><
#138 Jul 17 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
421 posts
In my travels lately, I've come to the conclusion that the jp cor/whm are not all lazy, had a merit pt today, and my friend invited a jp cor/whm, I was skeptical but I wanted to see what this one would do.

I've have now realized that some of them actually want to DD but are pigeon holed by the jp community into cor/whm, the poor guy wanted to shoot something so bad I could see it in his eyes, the rdm never went below 50% mp and the cor never really use any cures.

He did come up and whip out his sword and melee a bit, light shot a couple birds that resisted or linked, then BAM! I saw a slugshot! I was like.. wah?

Poor guy was only hitting for 500-600 though, if I spoke japanese I'd take him under my wing and show him how its done, he just was not geared for it.

Asked a jp cor seeking as whm to a pt yesterday and then asked him to come cor/rng or cor/war, to my surprise he had a good melee for tp set and good slug build, then I saw one seeking as cor/rng later in the day. maybe they see us having all the fun and want in lol.

on a side note some jp brd was seeking and invite me when I was running around as cor/blm for some warp, had in her comment "no /war or /sam", I showed up in whitegate as cor/war, well it was NA prime, and I was the only cor seeking, it turned out to be a 27k/hr pt. maybe I made a good impression, hope I changed some of thier minds on the whole thing.
____________________________

#139 Jul 17 2009 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
****
5,159 posts
ManifestOfKujata wrote:
The one positive thing I will try to take from this thread is going /WAR to merits. I also hit Slug Shot 90% of the time (thanks to 8/8 Marksmanship and middle of the road racc gear), so I want to try /WAR to push my damage further.

Not just merits - you can use it all over. When status cures aren't needed, and utsusemi isn't needed, you can generally /War (assuming you're dealing physical damage of course). Most recently, it worked well for me on both ACP7 & ACP11.
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#140 Jul 19 2009 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,917 posts
The hard part of /war isn't slug accuracy, it's melée to acc. B- swd is the killer. But with sushi merits and decent acc gear it is acceptable.
____________________________
Mirabelle
Race: Mithra
Server: Ifrit
75COR/75RDM/75RNG/45THF/37BLM/38WHM/37NIN/37DRK/41BLU/37DNC/37SAM/37WAR/37SCH
#141 Jul 19 2009 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,813 posts
Lafaiel wrote:
In my travels lately, I've come to the conclusion that the jp cor/whm are not all lazy, had a merit pt today, and my friend invited a jp cor/whm, I was skeptical but I wanted to see what this one would do.

I've have now realized that some of them actually want to DD but are pigeon holed by the jp community into cor/whm, the poor guy wanted to shoot something so bad I could see it in his eyes, the rdm never went below 50% mp and the cor never really use any cures.

He did come up and whip out his sword and melee a bit, light shot a couple birds that resisted or linked, then BAM! I saw a slugshot! I was like.. wah?

Poor guy was only hitting for 500-600 though, if I spoke japanese I'd take him under my wing and show him how its done, he just was not geared for it.

Asked a jp cor seeking as whm to a pt yesterday and then asked him to come cor/rng or cor/war, to my surprise he had a good melee for tp set and good slug build, then I saw one seeking as cor/rng later in the day. maybe they see us having all the fun and want in lol.

on a side note some jp brd was seeking and invite me when I was running around as cor/blm for some warp, had in her comment "no /war or /sam", I showed up in whitegate as cor/war, well it was NA prime, and I was the only cor seeking, it turned out to be a 27k/hr pt. maybe I made a good impression, hope I changed some of thier minds on the whole thing.


it's not that JP won't /DD, and you won't change their minds by being a good DD. in general they think that healing is more important, and their idea of how much healing is needed is usually far more extreme than NA/EU (and, incidentally, it's usually very redundant and wrong). most JP COR/WHM you see that aren't new-75s probably have a melee/WS setup ready, but they won't use it unless they're in like RDM WHM COR DD DD DD or something.

in other words, it's not that they think the job can't or shouldn't go anything but /WHM (usually!). it's that they think someone ought to be helping heal, and b/c they're not just straight frontline melees, it should be them.

needless to say, i don't agree with the general JP mindset of over-caution in merit or XP parties. i'm just pointing out that effective DD COR won't change their minds, because they're already aware that DD COR works; just like they're aware that MNK/WAR is a powerhouse but want /NIN for survivability (most NA share this view, incidentally). it's different values.

it should be noted that there are of course JP players who take that attitude from their peers (need "proper" healing) and illicitly infer that COR/WHM is the only way to play COR. this is about as norm as NA/EU healers who require SAMs to /NIN in merit parties; they use a norm value (DD/NIN to save MP) and apply it inappropriately. the difference with COR just happens to be that the norm value is rather wrong.

Edited, Jul 19th 2009 2:16pm by milich
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
1 2 3 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (15)