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Potential DD COR with a DD question.Follow

#1 Jul 03 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I've never seen a single COR actually DD, so goddammit, I'm going to do it. I've only seen two /RNG, but neither of them used Barrage or shot except to "pull" with light shot, which amounted to the party running to the mob. I've been wanting to work COR for a while and after I finish up WAR, I'll be starting on it (with capped marksmanship for 75 WAR no less so syncing won't bother me for a long time). I plan to have the best gear, spare no expense on bullets, etc. I have a 75 BRD, so I know how to pull and buff at 2400km/h, but I'll run around with a search comment refusing to pull in favor of pure DD. They have just as much of a right to not invite me as I have to not pull, so I won't feel bad if they don't invite.

Anyway, what sort of damage can I expect from COR for something like the ACP final fight? I don't expect a COR to beat RNG or anything in damage (most of the time), but the buffs and ranged damage would justify its spot anyway (and I know how crazy COR can get with its abilities, subjob abilities, and 2 hour). How would it compare to SAM/RNG for something like that? I've already beaten the fight, but there's a lot of fights where I find that all 6 of my jobs at 75 are basically unwanted, and I'd rather be a stylish DD COR than a RNG or a bulletless COR or a bandwagon SAM any day. Rather, for those BCNM fights where every one orgasms for RNGs, how well does a COR do?
#2 Jul 03 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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First of all, the term "DD COR" makes me a little uncomfortable. Our first job will always be our buffs and that probably takes up a big chunk of our time and focus. If you're levelling COR only to do damage then be forewarned. All other things being equal, a good COR will be lucky to do 70% of the damage a good RNG can do, and that only stands to go down as your priority shifts to keeping proper buffs up. Of course, with the potential to make everyone else in the party 40% more effective with our buffs, it's easy to justify a COR's place in almost any fight. If it's a fight where ranged DD excel then that's just a nice bonus. Corsair's should absolutely DD at every available opportunity but they should also be careful that it doesn't take the focus, and that's why it's hard to compare it to a RNG or even a SAM/RNG whose one and only job is to hurt things.
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#3 Jul 03 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
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Buffing isn't hard.
#4 Jul 03 2009 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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Regardless of how difficult it is, it takes time. Additionally, there is a difference between buffing and buffing well. It's not the doot-doot-aloot-doot of a BRD we're talking about here.
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#5 Jul 03 2009 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
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You're making it out to be much harder than it is.
#6 Jul 03 2009 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Not really; I never said it was hard. I don't understand why you're being disagreeable. Did you have your heart set on DDing 90% of the time? Because if you want to keep a 4-roll rotation up with the best possible totals then you should think again.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I just wanted to make the point that the only thing worse than a COR who only buffs and never DDs is a COR who thinks he's an awesome DD and fails to buff well.
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#7 Jul 03 2009 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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COR for something like the ACP final fight?

I was 2nd in dd to our rng. party was pld whm smn rng cor sam/rng.
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Rather, for those BCNM fights where every one orgasms for RNGs, how well does a COR do?

If you gear for it, then just think of yourself as a rng who cant equip the uber rng gear.

sam/rng has nothing on a properly geared cor/rng, and can be blown out of the water by cor/war. sam/war will kick your ass in dmg tho lol(assuming they dont suck).
#8 Jul 03 2009 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent
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sam/rng has nothing on a properly geared cor/rng, and can be blown out of the water by cor/war. sam/war will kick your ass in dmg tho lol(assuming they dont suck).


Uh, if I ever got out-damaged on SAM/RNG by a COR I would be pretty depressed. First of all, SAM/RNG typically melees with Soboro for TP and only uses bow for Sidewinder. However, even if you make it a purely 1 on 1 ranged DD battle, SAM has a lot of things on COR, not the least of which is access to a 75 base damage bow and top of the line arrows. Then there's Meditate, Hasso, access to almost all the nice ranged gear that RNG has, and most importantly: the fact that a SAM doesn't have to stop every minute to refresh buffs.

People who dream that COR can or should compare to a full DD are simply out to lunch, or they seriously need to meet more competent DDs.
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#9 Jul 03 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
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Filian wrote:
Not really; I never said it was hard. I don't understand why you're being disagreeable. Did you have your heart set on DDing 90% of the time? Because if you want to keep a 4-roll rotation up with the best possible totals then you should think again.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I just wanted to make the point that the only thing worse than a COR who only buffs and never DDs is a COR who thinks he's an awesome DD and fails to buff well.


What am I being disagreeable about? You're calling my skill into question about being able to keep up a roll rotation. Jesus Christ man, it's not hard. I'm going to fulfill DD purposes after buffing purposes because I'm going be invited to buff first and foremost, and damage deal after buffing is taken care of. That said, your concern about my abilities and mindset to do something so simple as someone clocking in and out of work at the proper times is not only off-topic, but uncalled for.

Quote:
If you gear for it, then just think of yourself as a rng who cant equip the uber rng gear.

sam/rng has nothing on a properly geared cor/rng, and can be blown out of the water by cor/war. sam/war will kick your ass in dmg tho lol(assuming they dont suck).


Thanks for an on-topic response first of all. I was really lacking a ranged damage job, and I'd rather work something I like (COR) than something I don't (RNG, SAM). As far as any situation where a SAM/WAR can deal damage, I have WAR and MNK for that, so I'm not concerned about melee situations.
#10 Jul 03 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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People who dream that COR can or should compare to a full DD are simply out to lunch, or they seriously need to meet more competent DDs.

Or perhalps you're the one that needs to meet more competent Cor DDs.
#11 Jul 03 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
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Filian wrote:
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sam/rng has nothing on a properly geared cor/rng, and can be blown out of the water by cor/war. sam/war will kick your ass in dmg tho lol(assuming they dont suck).


Uh, if I ever got out-damaged on SAM/RNG by a COR I would be pretty depressed. First of all, SAM/RNG typically melees with Soboro for TP and only uses bow for Sidewinder. However, even if you make it a purely 1 on 1 ranged DD battle, SAM has a lot of things on COR, not the least of which is access to a 75 base damage bow and top of the line arrows. Then there's Meditate, Hasso, access to almost all the nice ranged gear that RNG has, and most importantly: the fact that a SAM doesn't have to stop every minute to refresh buffs.

People who dream that COR can or should compare to a full DD are simply out to lunch, or they seriously need to meet more competent DDs.


We're talking about situations like the final ACP fight in which meleeing is impractical.
#12 Jul 03 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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I swear half the people on this site can't even read or comprehend english properly.

I never called your skill into question nor did I say buffing was hard. I was saying that it takes time and that means less time for DDing.

I already said that even in a purely 1 on 1 ranged DD battle, a decent SAM/RNG would win handily.

And no, I don't need to meet better CORs. You're too infatuated with your COR DD; I guarantee you that if I meritted on SAM/RNG against your COR, I would do at least 50% more damage than you.

Do I really have to say this all again?

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 4:54pm by Filian
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#13NovaLevossida, Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 3:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Shhhh, quiet now. I'm hoping for some on-topic responses instead of more warnings about splitting my concentration between buffing and shooting.
#14 Jul 03 2009 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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You're really being a condescending twit for someone who hasn't even leveled the job.

#15 Jul 03 2009 at 4:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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While COR is not a zomgwtfbbq DD, but it is still a DD job. A good COR can hold his own in a merit party, dealing good DMG and still keeping rolls up 100% of the time.
#16 Jul 03 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
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Siralin wrote:
You're really being a condescending twit for someone who hasn't even leveled the job.


I'd hardly call it condescending. The poster looked he/she had zero credibility and went on an off-topic discussion questioning my ability to play the job properly.
#17 Jul 03 2009 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The term 'DD COR' annoys me. It's redundant. I understand the use in saying, for example, "DD BRD," because that job normally does not deal damage. Not true for Corsair, so I don't get why the term 'DD COR' even exists. If you're a COR who doesn't deal damage, you've failed at the job class.
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#18 Jul 03 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
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Carrilei wrote:
The term 'DD COR' annoys me. It's redundant. I understand the use in saying, for example, "DD BRD," because that job normally does not deal damage. Not true for Corsair, so I don't get why the term 'DD COR' even exists. If you're a COR who doesn't deal damage, you've failed at the job class.


You probably have an idea of what the vast majority of CORs get away with in exp. I use the term only to distinguish the way the job should be played and how it's played by 99% of the players.
#19 Jul 03 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I use the term only to distinguish the way the job should be played and how it's played by 99% of the players.

nah not 99%, I'd say more like 50/50, however it takes effort to DD decently where it takes little to none to sub a support like /whm or /brd.
#20 Jul 03 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Default
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Our experiences differ then. I've sadly only ever seen one shoot more than once or twice a fight across two servers.
#21 Jul 03 2009 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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You're really being a condescending twit for someone who hasn't even leveled the job.


I'd hardly call it condescending. The poster looked he/she had zero credibility and went on an off-topic discussion questioning my ability to play the job properly.


Zero credibility? I guarantee you I have more experience on COR than 80% of the people here. There is literally no event or enemy I have not experienced on COR, except perhaps PW.

And please, where did I ever insult you or question your ability to play? I didn't once, you just threw a hissy-fit when I offered you advice. I hate throwing the N-word around but by getting uppity instead of taking advice from someone who knows better, you've proven yourself to be the perfect definition of a noob and destined yourself to be an embarassment to the job that we care about.

Yes, now I'm insulting.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 6:16pm by Filian
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#22 Jul 03 2009 at 5:25 PM Rating: Default
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You sure didn't establish credibility in this topic and decided instead to give out a free, unwanted lecture on how to buff to someone who specifically mentioned that he had a 75 BRD in an effort to avoid a free, unwanted lecture on how to buff. Thanks, but no thanks. Despite your experience it doesn't sound like you "know better" because the extent of this topic is "how much damage can I expect from a COR in a ranged damage scenario" and not "how do I play COR?" I mean, if keeping up 4 rolls and shooting a gun were hard, you might have a case.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 8:44pm by NovaLevossida
#23 Jul 03 2009 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, for ACP final fight in particular, I'd say COR is one of the absolute best jobs you can have. Will the RNG out-dmg you? He better lol. But he can't improve anyone else's performance and certainly can't do anything to help the mages. I beat the final fight using my COR and the combo of buffs and ranged dmg is really tough to beat. (not to mention with luzaf's ring you can buff the PLD or tank much easier/safer than the brd can).

In general, a really good DD COR can outperform your average meritpo DDs. I've parsed about a dozen pts I've had on COR and I've never finished 4th. I've always beaten at least 1 DD if not two.

I don't mind the term DD COR myself because most CORs don't really seem to know how high their ceiling is. I don't know if I'd say that to be a DD COR (as opposed to a normal one) that you need to be /war for berserk or /rng for barrage but it's amazing how much dmg you get from berserk. I've only pted with one person in a parsed situation whos avg WS dmg was higher than mine is on COR. Ironically, I was on SAM for that pt and a mercy stroke THF was avging 1300+ per WS (though I still won the parse by 7% total dmg). My COR avgs somewhere between 1180-1200 on slugs with /war. If I refused to slug without berserk and chaos up (which would be really lame of me) but if I did... it'd jump closer to 1500. A COR will always get smoked on melee DoT but only samurais tend to beat me in overall WS dmg (due to the sheer # they can pump out).

In merits anyway, I'd say you need to full-time sushi and know how to protect it, have a pretty damn good acc tp set and have a slug set with high lvls of racc and str to be an above-avg COR DD-wise. In other situations, pot-au-feu is insane if melee acc isn't an issue.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 9:27pm by TDGSW
#24 Jul 03 2009 at 5:33 PM Rating: Default
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TDGSW wrote:
Well, for ACP final fight in particular, I'd say COR is one of the absolute best jobs you can have. Will the RNG out-dmg you? He better lol. But he can't improve anyone else's performance and certainly can't do anything to help the mages. I beat the final fight using my COR and the combo of buffs and ranged dmg is really tough to beat. (not to mention with luzaf's ring you can buff the PLD or tank much easier/safer than the brd can).

In general, a really good DD COR can outperform your average meritpo DDs. I've parsed about a dozen pts I've had on COR and I've never finished 4th. I've always beaten at least 1 DD if not two.

I don't mind the term DD COR myself because most CORs don't really seem to know how high their ceiling is. I don't know if I'd say that to be a DD COR (as opposed to a normal one) that you need to be /war for berserk or /rng for barrage but it's amazing how much dmg you get from berserk. I've only pted with one person in a parsed situation whos avg WS dmg was higher than mine is on COR. Ironically, I was on SAM for that pt and a mercy stroke THF was avging 1300+ per WS (though I still won the parse by 7% total dmg). My COR avgs somewhere between 1180-1200 on slugs with /war. If I refused to slug without berserk and chaos up (which would be really lame of me) but if I did... it'd jump closer to 1500. A COR will always get smoked on melee DoT but only samurais tend to beat me in overall WS dmg (due to the sheer # they can pump out).

In merits anyway, I'd say you need to full-time sushi and know how to protect it, have a pretty damn good acc tp set and have a slug set with high lvls of racc and str to be an above-avg COR DD-wise. In other situations, pot-au-feu is insane if melee acc isn't an issue.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 9:27pm by TDGSW


Thanks. I have other jobs I'll merit on, but I'll be using COR quite bit for other things. Either way, I'll have all the subjobs already leveled so I'll pick and choose what's best for each situation.
#25 Jul 03 2009 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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On the final fight do you use detonator or slugshot?
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#26 Jul 03 2009 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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I opted for detonator just based on the fact that I needed to stand so far away from the crystal to prevent having my JAs stolen or taking a bunch of dmg. Slug may have worked too but we were making good time (won with 8 mins to spare) and I decided to play if safe, racc wise.
#27 Jul 03 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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NovaLevossida wrote:
Shhhh, quiet now. I'm hoping for some on-topic responses instead of more warnings about splitting my concentration between buffing and shooting.


it's not fucking concentration, it's TIME. any DD with a brain would tell you that being locked up for a decent amount of time doing JAs is a HUGE hit to DoT. you are a joke; what filian is saying is spot on.

edit: and lol at you (whoever the @#%^ you are) talking about filian's "credibility".

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 2:03am by milich
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#28 Jul 03 2009 at 10:39 PM Rating: Default
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I know all about time (ie, having to cast utsu a lot lowers damage output). I freely admit I skipped over the time aspect of his first post in light of his warnings to remember that my first priority is buffing. I understand both points anyway.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 2:00am by NovaLevossida
#29 Jul 04 2009 at 4:14 AM Rating: Default
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Anyway, I partied with a COR last night with my WAR subbing NIN in a sync party and this it what it looked like:

Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg 
COR                       9334     5.72 %        5524        1612           0        2198           0          0 
DNC                      37947    23.25 %       24083           0           0       13864           0          0 
THF                      39701    24.32 %       23709          10           0       15982           0          0 
PLD                       8119     4.97 %        6709           0         198         648           0        564 
WAR                      67894    41.59 %       43217           0           0       24127           0        550 
SC: Detonation              80     0.05 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Liquefaction            10     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Reverberation          148     0.09 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
Total                   163233   100.00 %      103242        1622         198       56819           0       1114 
 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
COR                 5524   59.18 %    601/455   56.91 %      0/36     8.37     40     15/30   20.68    6.66 % 
DNC                24083   63.46 %   1055/118   89.94 %      3/35    20.44     91     31/63   48.16    8.63 % 
THF                23709   59.72 %    996/355   73.72 %      2/27    16.63     97    27/260   90.32    9.74 % 
PLD                 6709   82.63 %    310/401   43.60 %      0/49    18.50     24     47/91   59.08    7.74 % 
WAR                43217   63.65 %     462/38   92.40 %    26/143    86.58     38   112/210  171.24    8.23 % 
 
 
Range Damage 
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
COR               1612   17.27 %      24/35   40.68 %     55/93    67.17      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 % 
THF                  10    0.03 %       1/36    2.70 %     10/10    10.00      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 % 
 
 
Other Magical Damage  (Additional Effects and Spikes) 
Player            M.AE Dmg  # M.AE  M.AE Avg   R.AE Dmg  # R.AE  R.AE Avg   Spk.Dmg  # Spike  Spk.Avg 
PLD                  0       0      0.00          0       0      0.00       564       44    12.82 
 
 
Other Physical Damage  (Counterattacks and Retaliations) 
Player            CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg 
WAR                0          0/0        0/0    0.00       550           6/0      68/119    91.67 
 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
COR               2198    23.55 %     11/17    39.29 %      84/410   199.82 
 - Hot Shot                   708    32.21 %      7/10    41.18 %      84/137   101.14 
 - Slug Shot                 1490    67.79 %       4/7    36.36 %     335/410   372.50 
DNC                      13864    36.54 %      32/0   100.00 %     240/563   433.25 
 - Dancing Edge             13864   100.00 %      32/0   100.00 %     240/563   433.25 
THF                     15982    40.26 %      36/0   100.00 %     307/612   443.94 
 - Dancing Edge             15982   100.00 %      36/0   100.00 %     307/612   443.94 
PLD                       648     7.98 %       5/0   100.00 %     105/150   129.60 
 - Spirits Within             648   100.00 %       5/0   100.00 %     105/150   129.60 
WAR                     24127    35.54 %      54/0   100.00 %     161/840   446.80 
 - Raging Rush              24127   100.00 %      54/0   100.00 %     161/840   446.80 
 
 
Ability Damage 
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg 
PLD                       198     2.44 %      11/0   100.00 %       18/18    18.00 
 - Shield Bash                198   100.00 %      11/0   100.00 %       18/18    18.00 
 
 
Skillchain Damage 
Skillchain          SC Dmg  # SC  SC.Low/Hi  SC.Avg 
SC: Detonation          80     3      13/40   26.67 
SC: Liquefaction        10     2        5/5    5.00 
SC: Reverberation      148     3     21/101   49.33 
 
 
 


Anyway, that's all I've ever seen from CORs and what prompted this topic. He couldn't keep up 3 rolls all the time, had 40% racc, and didn't even do 6% of the party's damage. I know there are CORs who can keep up 4 rolls, DD, and do an amazing job all around, but I've never ever seen them. So I figure I can do better than what I see here. The purpose of this topic was to give me an idea of what I could expect outside of exp purposes because I know my damage will not only be fine for exp, it'll blow away the expectations people have since this is all we ever see.

edit: And actually, 59 total ranged attacks divided by the total fights (41) = 1.43 ranged attacks per fight. About par for what I said earlier. I know it's a bad player, but I've never seen good ones playing COR.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 7:41am by NovaLevossida
#30 Jul 04 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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ya i've never been out dd'd by a dnc on cor, thats just sad...
#31 Jul 04 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just for one day I wish SE would make all the CORs who perform anywhere near that 'dissapear.' They could even blame it on another billing snafu!

Okay I lied, I'd want it to be for more than one day.
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#32NovaLevossida, Posted: Jul 04 2009 at 11:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) On the other hand, the only DD COR I've partied (only once due to generally exping at different times) with is someone I personally know, and he has a fully pimped out 75 RNG. It was a 55ish sync colibri party where I had to resort to Rampage, but he was second place and not all that far behind me.
#33 Jul 04 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread is priceless, I dont have Cor 75, its only 36. I do however have Sam and Rng both 75 for a "Ranged" Aspect of DD'ing. I also have a few very well geared Cor buddy's ( Milch do you know "MeshMesh"? ) And have merited / done that ACP fight with these individuals.

Now at the beggining of the thread the topic of time needed to buff cutting into your time to DD was brought up and is I would say the most important aurgement about why Cor will never be Top notch DD by any standards. Brd Buffs are nothing close to Cor buffs, They cast quicker and you don't have a timer in between. You also have nifty tools like Pianissimo allowing you to not have to move around AS much if needed. Now cor, you have to double up sometimes 3+ times with some low rolls, then you need to wait for Phantom roll to even be available to use again ( oh and I know you understand all this ,or so you say, but keep reading ) and on top of this rather slow form of buffing you are limited to you 8' range. Sure u have 15-30 Seconds in between rolls to buff the pt but Cmon you have a gun you have to position yourself to maximum DD range ( 4.7-7.5 I believe? ) Which might happen to be within all the Melee's but it might also might not. So now you compare this DD of your to a Rng. Who already has a A+ versus your B+ ( or -? ) a HUGE gap in gear choices and the Rolls of a Cor on them. The Rng doesn't move, a smart pt isnt making the Ranger pull, and if its a mission then even more reason the Ranger isnt moving much.

Cor isn't a big DD, but while playing Cor you should shoot and add to the PT to make everything go smoother, Because even if its only every 2 or 3 Battles, a 700 Damage slug always makes Colibri go down Faster.

On the Acp fight the Cor I was with was a master of his job, Excellent gear ( had just finished full Skadi ) and managed his rolls ( on the stairs of ACP ) like a champion. His damage was helpful much more so then a Brd in his spot would have been, but he never pulled hate off of my Rng.

Though you might only read the beginning of this and Have some Snobby remark about how we dont understand your question, Your wrong.
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#34 Jul 04 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
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I read the whole thing to the end (your inane blather included) and have gotten what I needed out of this topic since I got enough on-topic responses while wading through the riffraff of people concerned that DDing "doesn't take the focus" over buffing even if something as simple and basic as an understanding of if you're doing something other than shooting then you're not dealing damage was implied. I didn't have Pianissimo back when I leveled and played BRD and did everything without the distance plug-in and worked with the busy song / pull rotation of a merit bard (and that's neither hard nor impressive, but neither is a COR buff rotation as I have played my friend's COR before), so I know what I'm getting into with COR buffs (they take time but they're not going to occupy the entire timeslot until your next roll unlike a BRD's songs which are fired off and the BRD instantly runs off in search of the next mob). And 8' range isn't the limit anyway once you get that ring. Hell, I'd have liked to have been able to use something like double-up to hit someone who ran out of range with a bard song.

Anyway, I got the answers I was wanting from helpful posters (you were half-helpful), being RNG > COR ~ SAM/RNG give or take. Of course, the thread wasn't about beating RNG damage in the first place or even exp situations but rather asking what I could expect in situations like ACP so for @#%^'s sake why are you talking about exp situations if you understand my question. Why indeed.


Edited, Jul 4th 2009 4:17pm by NovaLevossida
#35 Jul 04 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Yay, more claims that COR can "hold their own" with dedicated DDs.

Personally, I'd like to see a parse of any COR, anywhere, outdamaging a RNG. Even a sh*tty RNG. Call it curiosity.
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#36 Jul 04 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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<player1> COR is awesome. sure, you sacrifice some personal DoT to increase everyone's performance, but it's still a fun and useful job that fits into any party.
<player2> NO FAGGOT COR IS THE HEAVIEST DD IN THE GAME LOL
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#37 Jul 04 2009 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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That parse is just brutal to look at. 55% melee acc and 40% ranged acc? Hot shot being used for any reason at all. And 4 landed slugs totaling.. 1490? /cry lol

I've yet to parse under 80% melee accuracy on COR (rarely get madrigal and ppl never want hunters, even if they should lol). I rarely shoot for TP unless I go into that mode full-time (Vulcan's/axe grip/pot au feu). And I'm guessing I beat 1490 on single slugs over a dozen times in my last pt.

This sorta thing is why I suggested in a diff thread that maybe just maybe the gap between great COR and blah COR is wider than the difference between great n blah on many other jobs.

As for outparsing a RNG, I don't believe it can be done... PROVIDED the RNG is getting the COR's buffs. If that's the case, there's no way. If not, well they are fair game lol.

I've done a lot of salvage on COR and particularly the Bhaflau Remnants ramparts. I'm always in the main pt and, on the occasions we've had a RNG, they've always been in the add pt. I always full-time chaos there because the mages are barely having to heal anyone and MP isn't an issue. Every time that situation has come up, my slugs have beaten the RNGs slugs. Every time. Also on gears, if i'm in the main pt and have chaos up, I win.

The last time I merited with a RNG, it was a really crazy RNGx2 COR DRG BRD RDM pt. No voke, but piercing dmg everywhere. Those 2 RNG were routinely doing 2500-3K sidewinders. I know I gave them chaos, don't recall what the BRD was doing but I'd think minuet would have been the choice with so few melees involved. Was pretty spectacular and made me feel quite gimp (though this was before I piled on STR and went /war) ... those 2 woul still beat me though
#38 Jul 04 2009 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
As for outparsing a RNG, I don't believe it can be done... PROVIDED the RNG is getting the COR's buffs. If that's the case, there's no way. If not, well they are fair game lol.

Aye it can't be unless the rng is really terrible or the cor isn't buffing them and only buffing himself.
#39 Jul 04 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I'd like to see a parse of any COR, anywhere, outdamaging a RNG. Even a sh*tty RNG. Call it curiosity.

SE has done a good job to make sure we can't. We will outparse the RNG only if the COR's damage is combined with the amount he adds to the other melee in the party. If we could outdo an average RNG with just our equipment and rolls then no reason to have a RNG.

But RNG gets velocity shot, More Ratt gear (less STR though), higher base skill, better bullets, snapshot merits, better guns, more RACC. Chaos/SAM roll isn't going to top that.
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#40 Jul 04 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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asking what I could expect in situations like ACP


Why fuss about damage in that fight? That fight is about hate control and a good PLD.

The best thing a COR and RNG can do in that fight is tone it down and keep the damage average and steady. A COR is great at that fight because of buffs and because it can damage from a distance. Doing great damage is the least of your concerns as there is plenty of time to plunk away at the crystal and still win.
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#41 Jul 05 2009 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
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So if we all agree that COR will not beat RNG (even a sh*tty one) as long as said RNG is receiving COR's rolls, and we all (presumably) agree that a sh*tty RNG is not going to beat other dedicated DDs, why do people continue to claim that a good COR can hold their own against other dedicated DDs (that are receiving COR's rolls)?
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#42 Jul 05 2009 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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I'm one of those people that believe Cor is a great job, though isn't a great DD. However a good cor can hold his own and will easily out damage mediocre DD's that one often finds in pickup parties. Asking for a Cor to out damage a Rng is a bit unfair since obviously a Rng is 100% a DD and Cor isn't. However I have partied with some very good Cors in the past. Here is a parse of a Bird camp meripo I had.

 
Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg 
Airami                  226609    24.13 %       99373           0           0      127236           0          0 
Mnk1                    229351    24.42 %      159831           0         765       68263           0        492 
Mnk2                    221035    23.54 %      149358           0        1640       69266           0        771 
Cor                     220842    23.52 %      104871           0         406      115565           0          0 
SC: Darkness              5922     0.63 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Distortion             669     0.07 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Fragmentation          487     0.05 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Fusion                1174     0.13 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Gravitation            171     0.02 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Light                   67     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Transfixion             62     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
Total                   939059   100.00 %      528030           0        2811      398307           0       1359 
 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
Airami                99373   43.85 %     965/67   93.51 %    47/173    93.76    103   134/242  180.13   10.67 % 
Mnk1                 159831   69.69 %   2111/471   81.76 %    33/142    64.76    381    86/178  125.47   18.05 % 
Mnk2                 149358   67.57 %   1994/337   85.54 %    26/122    65.90    295    65/176  126.77   14.79 % 
Cor                  104871   47.49 %   1771/279   86.39 %    17/101    53.87    177    67/140  107.36    9.99 % 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
Airami                     127236    56.15 %    195/14    93.30 %    263/1087   652.49 
 - Tachi: Gekko            103432    81.29 %    155/11    93.37 %    349/1087   667.30 
 - Tachi: Kasha             15508    12.19 %      23/1    95.83 %     528/938   674.26 
 - Tachi: Rana               2864     2.25 %       7/0   100.00 %     263/522   409.14 
 - Tachi: Yukikaze           5432     4.27 %      10/2    83.33 %     403/652   543.20 
Mnk1                        68263    29.76 %     103/0   100.00 %    155/1001   662.75 
 - Ascetic's Fury             456     0.67 %       1/0   100.00 %     456/456   456.00 
 - Asuran Fists             67807    99.33 %     102/0   100.00 %    155/1001   664.77 
Mnk2                        69266    31.34 %     110/0   100.00 %     301/982   629.69 
 - Asuran Fists             69266   100.00 %     110/0   100.00 %     301/982   629.69 
Cor                        115565    52.33 %     113/6    94.96 %    742/1488  1022.70 
 - Detonator                30018    25.97 %      28/1    96.55 %    742/1312  1072.07 
 - Slug Shot                85547    74.03 %      85/5    94.44 %    810/1488  1006.44 


And thats the parse. The 2 mnks were very good, some of the best I know. And the cor is very well geared as well. I was on sam, my gear is in my sig. The cor was meleeing full time with either mkris or joytoy I can't remember, but I think joytoy. The cor also forgot cards in their mog house so the huge portion of damage that quickdraw brings isn't even portrayed.

Now I know this isn't a Cor vs Rng parse but as you can see the cor barely lost in dmg after almost 3hrs of meriting, against 2 mnks and a sam. This was one of the best merit parties I've had since I began meriting. So the way I see it, is if your at a pierce weak camp, cor is capable of providing great damage, and even if your not at that kind of camp the damage is still far from terrible.

-also you might notice there is some damage missing from the parse, this is because at the very end of the party, another group showed up and my parser caught a little bit of there damage, but I edited them out.
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#43 Jul 05 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
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Airami wrote:
I'm one of those people that believe Cor is a great job, though isn't a great DD. However a good cor can hold his own and will easily out damage mediocre DD's that one often finds in pickup parties. Asking for a Cor to out damage a Rng is a bit unfair since obviously a Rng is 100% a DD and Cor isn't.

How about a mediocre RNG, then?

This is my point. I just want to see a parse of a COR outdamaging a RNG.
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#44 Jul 05 2009 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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my wakeup call to the gap in damage between rng and cor was in the mire at 60, we were fighting marsh murrs and we were both fully buffed, I landed a 1100 slug and though to myself "hot damn, that was sexy". then "rng uses sidewinder, the marsh murr takes 1600 damage".

I was pretty miffed about that.

along the way I've merited with a few rng here and there and could not beat a single one of them, not buffing them is counter productive so thats out of the question.

We can't stack up to a rng in damage, but sometimes our damage is what keeps the chain going in a mediocre pt making it a good pt.

I was once in a brd x2 as the second brd on birds, and they couldn't get past chain 10, switched to cor and chained to 100 before we disbanded.

Most of the rng I've merited with land sidewinder for 2k+ hardly any lower, my best is around 1800 or so with zerk up. but if we can beat a mediocre rng, I haven't seen it yet, but most that I've merited with had decent gear if not great gear.
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#45 Jul 05 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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Meh,

Not sure what the definition of a "sh*tty" RNG even is lol. Truth be told, CORs and RNGs don't seem to cross paths much, at least in my experience. The two I last PTed with (this musta been 4-5 months ago) were exceptional RNGs. i'd even say the were the best RNGs i've pted with (aside from a kclub RNG that was just destroying mire mobs in a pt i had more than a year ago).

The reason we think beating an RNG is so much tougher than say a MNK or WAR is that vs. a MNK or WAR, we're got the piercing bonus and in most cases they don't. that's 25% dmg right there. Now if a RNG had a lousy WS build (lacking STR and Racc.. which with all the gear they have access to, I'd find hard to believe), a COR might be able to. A RNG is one of the very jobs that SHOULD be able to beat a COR on avg WS dmg on birds. That's what personally sets me apart from every DD I merit with. They can't touch me WS wise.

As for TP gain, I've noticed on COR that any time I try to shoot for TP and i'm in a strong pt, I'm lucky to get 3 shots off per mob. TP gain at least SEEMS far slower to me with ranged attacks than meleeing. However, the RNG has velocity shot and can merit snapshot, has stronger guns an ammo then we do. If COR had snapshot to the extent an RNG has, I think shooting for TP on birds would be more viable.

Anyway, long story short:

1) the reason you see so many of us "claim" we can hang with avg DDs" is because... wait for it... WE'VE DONE IT! And have parses that show us we've done it. I've flat out won 2 parses on COR. One I know a friend (on SAM) was holdin tp to help a MNK friend break a latent weapon.. was more of a friendly LS pt than a legit merit pt). The other was a lvl 55 sync pt just last Monday.

COR, MNKx2, PLD, SAM, RDM all of us meleeing because the SAM had a WHM75 PL. Thanks to my merits, I had slug shot at 55. SAM doesn't get a major WS until 60. With /RNG and kukri and shooting for tp full time (this pt wasn't destroying birds in 20 seconds of course), I had enough racc to make up for the fact that most of my gear was gimped due to syncing. I don't recall how many of us were synced but obviously at least one of us was a legit lvl 55. I won that parse handily, by a clear 3% over anyone.

I've beaten plenty of WARs and MNKs in merits but I haven't seen a RNG in a merit pt I was in in ages. A good RNG should beat me, every time. They have advantages all over the place (better gun/ammo, velo shot, snapshot, higher native skill, attack rolls on full-time, don't ever have to go buff someone else, can have BOTH barrage and berserk if they choose).

Honestly, I think the right conclusion is if RNG should > COR and COR can = avg DD, then RNG > avg DD on birds.
#46 Jul 05 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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why do people continue to claim that a good COR can hold their own against other dedicated DDs (that are receiving COR's rolls)?

Because not all DDs have good gear, and not all DDs know wtf they are doing, not all DDs care what they are doing and just auto attack then afk. Any Dedicated good DD main will beat out a cor, you just don't find a lot of those in pick up merits that actually try.
#47 Jul 05 2009 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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TDGSW wrote:
Honestly, I think the right conclusion is if RNG should > COR and COR can = avg DD, then RNG > avg DD on birds.

Thank you. This is what I'm looking for.

The point that I am trying to get across is that if:

a) COR can compete with average DDs, and
b) COR cannot beat RNG (even a sorry RNG) ever

then, logically:

c) average DDs cannot beat RNG (even a sorry RNG) ever

As long as anyone who claims that COR can hang with average DDs is also willing to accept the corollary conclusion that average DDs cannot beat RNG ever, then I'm fine with it. But most people are unwilling to accept such a conclusion, because it's (deservedly) absurd on its face.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 6:51pm by redvenomweb
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#48 Jul 06 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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This is a silly argument, to me.

On the WAR forums, people discuss the effect that the movement speed decrease of dusk gloves will have on your DoT if you need to run to engage your next target, and the data gathered indicates that you lose pretty much the entire haste effect if you don't gear swap to run to the next mob in a meripo.

NOW, extrapolate that kind of DoT lost to when you stop attacking to roll and double up, nevermind running to the back line to buff your mages! That is the reason why COR won't (and shouldn't) be topping any parses. It's just part of the job.

Now, if SE wanted to let us pick the target of a roll and make it AoE around them, then we could be a significantly more capable DD'er by default, regardless of your choice of accumulating TP. (And man, if they ever gave the players an auto-shoot option... look out!)

Edit: grammar uber alles

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 11:17am by RadioGotEm
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#49 Jul 06 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Why does it matter who beats who on a parse. The most important outcome of a meripo is that you got good xp/hr and/or had fun doing it.

The only logical thing to say is a COR that DD's will outperform a COR that doesn't in both those factors. You have more tools to contribute damage so do so and tha party will flourish.
Whether you can outparse a DD or not isn't terribly relevant.
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#50 Jul 06 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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HAI GUYS!

I make topic then troll the responses!
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#51 Jul 28 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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/sigh with all the sucky cor i seen i dont blame you for
thinking cor cant dd. on a sidenote i done 1k reverberation on cor
edit: just got out of pt did 2.4k to a Greater colibri

Edited, Jul 29th 2009 2:07am by Areusknite
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