Potential DD COR with a DD question.Follow

I've never seen a single COR actually DD, so goddammit, I'm going to do it. I've only seen two /RNG, but neither of them used Barrage or shot except to "pull" with light shot, which amounted to the party running to the mob. I've been wanting to work COR for a while and after I finish up WAR, I'll be starting on it (with capped marksmanship for 75 WAR no less so syncing won't bother me for a long time). I plan to have the best gear, spare no expense on bullets, etc. I have a 75 BRD, so I know how to pull and buff at 2400km/h, but I'll run around with a search comment refusing to pull in favor of pure DD. They have just as much of a right to not invite me as I have to not pull, so I won't feel bad if they don't invite.

Anyway, what sort of damage can I expect from COR for something like the ACP final fight? I don't expect a COR to beat RNG or anything in damage (most of the time), but the buffs and ranged damage would justify its spot anyway (and I know how crazy COR can get with its abilities, subjob abilities, and 2 hour). How would it compare to SAM/RNG for something like that? I've already beaten the fight, but there's a lot of fights where I find that all 6 of my jobs at 75 are basically unwanted, and I'd rather be a stylish DD COR than a RNG or a bulletless COR or a bandwagon SAM any day. Rather, for those BCNM fights where every one orgasms for RNGs, how well does a COR do?

Buffing isn't hard.

You're making it out to be much harder than it is.

I was 2nd in dd to our rng. party was pld whm smn rng cor sam/rng.

If you gear for it, then just think of yourself as a rng who cant equip the uber rng gear.

sam/rng has nothing on a properly geared cor/rng, and can be blown out of the water by cor/war. sam/war will kick your ass in dmg tho lol(assuming they dont suck).

What am I being disagreeable about? You're calling my skill into question about being able to keep up a roll rotation. Jesus Christ man, it's not hard. I'm going to fulfill DD purposes after buffing purposes because I'm going be invited to buff first and foremost, and damage deal after buffing is taken care of. That said, your concern about my abilities and mindset to do something so simple as someone clocking in and out of work at the proper times is not only off-topic, but uncalled for.



Thanks for an on-topic response first of all. I was really lacking a ranged damage job, and I'd rather work something I like (COR) than something I don't (RNG, SAM). As far as any situation where a SAM/WAR can deal damage, I have WAR and MNK for that, so I'm not concerned about melee situations.

We're talking about situations like the final ACP fight in which meleeing is impractical.

While COR is not a zomgwtfbbq DD, but it is still a DD job. A good COR can hold his own in a merit party, dealing good DMG and still keeping rolls up 100% of the time.

The term 'DD COR' annoys me. It's redundant. I understand the use in saying, for example, "DD BRD," because that job normally does not deal damage. Not true for Corsair, so I don't get why the term 'DD COR' even exists. If you're a COR who doesn't deal damage, you've failed at the job class.

nah not 99%, I'd say more like 50/50, however it takes effort to DD decently where it takes little to none to sub a support like /whm or /brd.

Zero credibility? I guarantee you I have more experience on COR than 80% of the people here. There is literally no event or enemy I have not experienced on COR, except perhaps PW.

And please, where did I ever insult you or question your ability to play? I didn't once, you just threw a hissy-fit when I offered you advice. I hate throwing the N-word around but by getting uppity instead of taking advice from someone who knows better, you've proven yourself to be the perfect definition of a noob and destined yourself to be an embarassment to the job that we care about.

Yes, now I'm insulting.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 6:16pm by Filian

Well, for ACP final fight in particular, I'd say COR is one of the absolute best jobs you can have. Will the RNG out-dmg you? He better lol. But he can't improve anyone else's performance and certainly can't do anything to help the mages. I beat the final fight using my COR and the combo of buffs and ranged dmg is really tough to beat. (not to mention with luzaf's ring you can buff the PLD or tank much easier/safer than the brd can).

In general, a really good DD COR can outperform your average meritpo DDs. I've parsed about a dozen pts I've had on COR and I've never finished 4th. I've always beaten at least 1 DD if not two.

I don't mind the term DD COR myself because most CORs don't really seem to know how high their ceiling is. I don't know if I'd say that to be a DD COR (as opposed to a normal one) that you need to be /war for berserk or /rng for barrage but it's amazing how much dmg you get from berserk. I've only pted with one person in a parsed situation whos avg WS dmg was higher than mine is on COR. Ironically, I was on SAM for that pt and a mercy stroke THF was avging 1300+ per WS (though I still won the parse by 7% total dmg). My COR avgs somewhere between 1180-1200 on slugs with /war. If I refused to slug without berserk and chaos up (which would be really lame of me) but if I did... it'd jump closer to 1500. A COR will always get smoked on melee DoT but only samurais tend to beat me in overall WS dmg (due to the sheer # they can pump out).

In merits anyway, I'd say you need to full-time sushi and know how to protect it, have a pretty damn good acc tp set and have a slug set with high lvls of racc and str to be an above-avg COR DD-wise. In other situations, pot-au-feu is insane if melee acc isn't an issue.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2009 9:27pm by TDGSW

On the final fight do you use detonator or slugshot?

it's not fucking concentration, it's TIME. any DD with a brain would tell you that being locked up for a decent amount of time doing JAs is a HUGE hit to DoT. you are a joke; what filian is saying is spot on.

edit: and lol at you (whoever the @#%^ you are) talking about filian's "credibility".

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 2:03am by milich

Anyway, I partied with a COR last night with my WAR subbing NIN in a sync party and this it what it looked like:

Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg 
COR                       9334     5.72 %        5524        1612           0        2198           0          0 
DNC                      37947    23.25 %       24083           0           0       13864           0          0 
THF                      39701    24.32 %       23709          10           0       15982           0          0 
PLD                       8119     4.97 %        6709           0         198         648           0        564 
WAR                      67894    41.59 %       43217           0           0       24127           0        550 
SC: Detonation              80     0.05 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Liquefaction            10     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
SC: Reverberation          148     0.09 %           0           0           0           0           0          0 
Total                   163233   100.00 %      103242        1622         198       56819           0       1114 
 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
COR                 5524   59.18 %    601/455   56.91 %      0/36     8.37     40     15/30   20.68    6.66 % 
DNC                24083   63.46 %   1055/118   89.94 %      3/35    20.44     91     31/63   48.16    8.63 % 
THF                23709   59.72 %    996/355   73.72 %      2/27    16.63     97    27/260   90.32    9.74 % 
PLD                 6709   82.63 %    310/401   43.60 %      0/49    18.50     24     47/91   59.08    7.74 % 
WAR                43217   63.65 %     462/38   92.40 %    26/143    86.58     38   112/210  171.24    8.23 % 
 
 
Range Damage 
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
COR               1612   17.27 %      24/35   40.68 %     55/93    67.17      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 % 
THF                  10    0.03 %       1/36    2.70 %     10/10    10.00      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 % 
 
 
Other Magical Damage  (Additional Effects and Spikes) 
Player            M.AE Dmg  # M.AE  M.AE Avg   R.AE Dmg  # R.AE  R.AE Avg   Spk.Dmg  # Spike  Spk.Avg 
PLD                  0       0      0.00          0       0      0.00       564       44    12.82 
 
 
Other Physical Damage  (Counterattacks and Retaliations) 
Player            CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg 
WAR                0          0/0        0/0    0.00       550           6/0      68/119    91.67 
 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
COR               2198    23.55 %     11/17    39.29 %      84/410   199.82 
 - Hot Shot                   708    32.21 %      7/10    41.18 %      84/137   101.14 
 - Slug Shot                 1490    67.79 %       4/7    36.36 %     335/410   372.50 
DNC                      13864    36.54 %      32/0   100.00 %     240/563   433.25 
 - Dancing Edge             13864   100.00 %      32/0   100.00 %     240/563   433.25 
THF                     15982    40.26 %      36/0   100.00 %     307/612   443.94 
 - Dancing Edge             15982   100.00 %      36/0   100.00 %     307/612   443.94 
PLD                       648     7.98 %       5/0   100.00 %     105/150   129.60 
 - Spirits Within             648   100.00 %       5/0   100.00 %     105/150   129.60 
WAR                     24127    35.54 %      54/0   100.00 %     161/840   446.80 
 - Raging Rush              24127   100.00 %      54/0   100.00 %     161/840   446.80 
 
 
Ability Damage 
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg 
PLD                       198     2.44 %      11/0   100.00 %       18/18    18.00 
 - Shield Bash                198   100.00 %      11/0   100.00 %       18/18    18.00 
 
 
Skillchain Damage 
Skillchain          SC Dmg  # SC  SC.Low/Hi  SC.Avg 
SC: Detonation          80     3      13/40   26.67 
SC: Liquefaction        10     2        5/5    5.00 
SC: Reverberation      148     3     21/101   49.33 
 
 
 

Anyway, that's all I've ever seen from CORs and what prompted this topic. He couldn't keep up 3 rolls all the time, had 40% racc, and didn't even do 6% of the party's damage. I know there are CORs who can keep up 4 rolls, DD, and do an amazing job all around, but I've never ever seen them. So I figure I can do better than what I see here. The purpose of this topic was to give me an idea of what I could expect outside of exp purposes because I know my damage will not only be fine for exp, it'll blow away the expectations people have since this is all we ever see.

edit: And actually, 59 total ranged attacks divided by the total fights (41) = 1.43 ranged attacks per fight. About par for what I said earlier. I know it's a bad player, but I've never seen good ones playing COR.

Edited, Jul 4th 2009 7:41am by NovaLevossida

Just for one day I wish SE would make all the CORs who perform anywhere near that 'dissapear.' They could even blame it on another billing snafu!

Okay I lied, I'd want it to be for more than one day.

This thread is priceless, I dont have Cor 75, its only 36. I do however have Sam and Rng both 75 for a "Ranged" Aspect of DD'ing. I also have a few very well geared Cor buddy's ( Milch do you know "MeshMesh"? ) And have merited / done that ACP fight with these individuals.

Now at the beggining of the thread the topic of time needed to buff cutting into your time to DD was brought up and is I would say the most important aurgement about why Cor will never be Top notch DD by any standards. Brd Buffs are nothing close to Cor buffs, They cast quicker and you don't have a timer in between. You also have nifty tools like Pianissimo allowing you to not have to move around AS much if needed. Now cor, you have to double up sometimes 3+ times with some low rolls, then you need to wait for Phantom roll to even be available to use again ( oh and I know you understand all this ,or so you say, but keep reading ) and on top of this rather slow form of buffing you are limited to you 8' range. Sure u have 15-30 Seconds in between rolls to buff the pt but Cmon you have a gun you have to position yourself to maximum DD range ( 4.7-7.5 I believe? ) Which might happen to be within all the Melee's but it might also might not. So now you compare this DD of your to a Rng. Who already has a A+ versus your B+ ( or -? ) a HUGE gap in gear choices and the Rolls of a Cor on them. The Rng doesn't move, a smart pt isnt making the Ranger pull, and if its a mission then even more reason the Ranger isnt moving much.

Cor isn't a big DD, but while playing Cor you should shoot and add to the PT to make everything go smoother, Because even if its only every 2 or 3 Battles, a 700 Damage slug always makes Colibri go down Faster.

On the Acp fight the Cor I was with was a master of his job, Excellent gear ( had just finished full Skadi ) and managed his rolls ( on the stairs of ACP ) like a champion. His damage was helpful much more so then a Brd in his spot would have been, but he never pulled hate off of my Rng.

Though you might only read the beginning of this and Have some Snobby remark about how we dont understand your question, Your wrong.

Yay, more claims that COR can "hold their own" with dedicated DDs.

Personally, I'd like to see a parse of any COR, anywhere, outdamaging a RNG. Even a sh*tty RNG. Call it curiosity.

That parse is just brutal to look at. 55% melee acc and 40% ranged acc? Hot shot being used for any reason at all. And 4 landed slugs totaling.. 1490? /cry lol

I've yet to parse under 80% melee accuracy on COR (rarely get madrigal and ppl never want hunters, even if they should lol). I rarely shoot for TP unless I go into that mode full-time (Vulcan's/axe grip/pot au feu). And I'm guessing I beat 1490 on single slugs over a dozen times in my last pt.

This sorta thing is why I suggested in a diff thread that maybe just maybe the gap between great COR and blah COR is wider than the difference between great n blah on many other jobs.

As for outparsing a RNG, I don't believe it can be done... PROVIDED the RNG is getting the COR's buffs. If that's the case, there's no way. If not, well they are fair game lol.

I've done a lot of salvage on COR and particularly the Bhaflau Remnants ramparts. I'm always in the main pt and, on the occasions we've had a RNG, they've always been in the add pt. I always full-time chaos there because the mages are barely having to heal anyone and MP isn't an issue. Every time that situation has come up, my slugs have beaten the RNGs slugs. Every time. Also on gears, if i'm in the main pt and have chaos up, I win.

The last time I merited with a RNG, it was a really crazy RNGx2 COR DRG BRD RDM pt. No voke, but piercing dmg everywhere. Those 2 RNG were routinely doing 2500-3K sidewinders. I know I gave them chaos, don't recall what the BRD was doing but I'd think minuet would have been the choice with so few melees involved. Was pretty spectacular and made me feel quite gimp (though this was before I piled on STR and went /war) ... those 2 woul still beat me though

Personally, I'd like to see a parse of any COR, anywhere, outdamaging a RNG. Even a sh*tty RNG. Call it curiosity.

SE has done a good job to make sure we can't. We will outparse the RNG only if the COR's damage is combined with the amount he adds to the other melee in the party. If we could outdo an average RNG with just our equipment and rolls then no reason to have a RNG.

But RNG gets velocity shot, More Ratt gear (less STR though), higher base skill, better bullets, snapshot merits, better guns, more RACC. Chaos/SAM roll isn't going to top that.

So if we all agree that COR will not beat RNG (even a sh*tty one) as long as said RNG is receiving COR's rolls, and we all (presumably) agree that a sh*tty RNG is not going to beat other dedicated DDs, why do people continue to claim that a good COR can hold their own against other dedicated DDs (that are receiving COR's rolls)?

How about a mediocre RNG, then?

This is my point. I just want to see a parse of a COR outdamaging a RNG.

Meh,

Not sure what the definition of a "sh*tty" RNG even is lol. Truth be told, CORs and RNGs don't seem to cross paths much, at least in my experience. The two I last PTed with (this musta been 4-5 months ago) were exceptional RNGs. i'd even say the were the best RNGs i've pted with (aside from a kclub RNG that was just destroying mire mobs in a pt i had more than a year ago).

The reason we think beating an RNG is so much tougher than say a MNK or WAR is that vs. a MNK or WAR, we're got the piercing bonus and in most cases they don't. that's 25% dmg right there. Now if a RNG had a lousy WS build (lacking STR and Racc.. which with all the gear they have access to, I'd find hard to believe), a COR might be able to. A RNG is one of the very jobs that SHOULD be able to beat a COR on avg WS dmg on birds. That's what personally sets me apart from every DD I merit with. They can't touch me WS wise.

As for TP gain, I've noticed on COR that any time I try to shoot for TP and i'm in a strong pt, I'm lucky to get 3 shots off per mob. TP gain at least SEEMS far slower to me with ranged attacks than meleeing. However, the RNG has velocity shot and can merit snapshot, has stronger guns an ammo then we do. If COR had snapshot to the extent an RNG has, I think shooting for TP on birds would be more viable.

Anyway, long story short:

1) the reason you see so many of us "claim" we can hang with avg DDs" is because... wait for it... WE'VE DONE IT! And have parses that show us we've done it. I've flat out won 2 parses on COR. One I know a friend (on SAM) was holdin tp to help a MNK friend break a latent weapon.. was more of a friendly LS pt than a legit merit pt). The other was a lvl 55 sync pt just last Monday.

COR, MNKx2, PLD, SAM, RDM all of us meleeing because the SAM had a WHM75 PL. Thanks to my merits, I had slug shot at 55. SAM doesn't get a major WS until 60. With /RNG and kukri and shooting for tp full time (this pt wasn't destroying birds in 20 seconds of course), I had enough racc to make up for the fact that most of my gear was gimped due to syncing. I don't recall how many of us were synced but obviously at least one of us was a legit lvl 55. I won that parse handily, by a clear 3% over anyone.

I've beaten plenty of WARs and MNKs in merits but I haven't seen a RNG in a merit pt I was in in ages. A good RNG should beat me, every time. They have advantages all over the place (better gun/ammo, velo shot, snapshot, higher native skill, attack rolls on full-time, don't ever have to go buff someone else, can have BOTH barrage and berserk if they choose).

Honestly, I think the right conclusion is if RNG should > COR and COR can = avg DD, then RNG > avg DD on birds.

Thank you. This is what I'm looking for.

The point that I am trying to get across is that if:

a) COR can compete with average DDs, and
b) COR cannot beat RNG (even a sorry RNG) ever

then, logically:

c) average DDs cannot beat RNG (even a sorry RNG) ever

As long as anyone who claims that COR can hang with average DDs is also willing to accept the corollary conclusion that average DDs cannot beat RNG ever, then I'm fine with it. But most people are unwilling to accept such a conclusion, because it's (deservedly) absurd on its face.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 6:51pm by redvenomweb

Why does it matter who beats who on a parse. The most important outcome of a meripo is that you got good xp/hr and/or had fun doing it.

The only logical thing to say is a COR that DD's will outperform a COR that doesn't in both those factors. You have more tools to contribute damage so do so and tha party will flourish.
Whether you can outparse a DD or not isn't terribly relevant.

/sigh with all the sucky cor i seen i dont blame you for
thinking cor cant dd. on a sidenote i done 1k reverberation on cor
edit: just got out of pt did 2.4k to a Greater colibri

Edited, Jul 29th 2009 2:07am by Areusknite