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Are 1 out of 4 CORs bad?Follow

#1 Jun 25 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/09/4.html

It seems like 25% or so had put merits into Phantom Roll Recast total

Another 10% did Random Recast total

Another 5% it seems or so put it into bust duration

Granted most of these CORs do not post here or maybe even read, when I see QD recast and QD accuracy I think of it like BLM only really should do ice and thunder potency 5/5..
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#2 Jun 25 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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It depends on your play style. If you do meripo only, you don't need QD accuracy at all (you should be able to stack enough agi on to land your QD 95% of the time anyways). Also, I know for meripos I usually save my QD for light shots, and I very rarely have an instance where my recast isn't up. So these types of COR who have little use for QD in their playing style have to put their merits where they think it'd be more valuable.

I personally did QD acc/recast 5/5, but there's no reason to knock others who have a different playing style with how they choose to use their merits (although......bust duration is a bit questionable.....but to each their own...)
#3 Jun 25 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Our merits are hard to decide. Each COR picks a different balance, depending on what they feel they will benefit from the most in the situations they use their COR the most for. If I'm the lone cor in an end-game shell and they have a lack of BRD's or something, if I've gotta be hopping parties a majority of the time at events...Then I'd probably think to myself, that phantom roll recast merit category is looking pretty good. However if I'm only in one party all the time like the BLM party then I'd want QD acc/recast and whatever other merits would help me be more cavalier or aggressive with rolls to get high numbers consistantly. For group 2 merits in the first situation hopping parties all the time, I'd probably just want to avoid busts as much as possible so I'd have more merits geared towards that.

If I don't really have any specific role I am constantly playing in, then it makes more sense to have a balance of merit placement. However, I fully agree random deal and bust duration merits are completely and utterly pointless wastes of merit points unless you fully upgrade them. Even fully upgraded, random deal recast sucks balls. I don't remember the bust upgrades time wise but who cares? Bust effect only lasts on you, not your party. You can still give them two buffs as normal, as long as you don't bust a second time.

Short answer: Yes, 1 out of 4 CORs are bad. I think if you asked other players though who don't have COR leveled, they'd say its higher like 2/4 or 3/4 CORs are bad, or atleast mediocre.
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#4 Jun 25 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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The OP seems to be implying that PR Recast is a bad thing.
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#5 Jun 25 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Good enough time as any to ask i suppose.

I'm a 75 COR and have thrown a few merits around so far... but im wondering where i should throw them all and if certain effects / merits are not as noticable as one would initially think...

Combat skills
gonna shoot for Marksmanship 8/8 (currently at 3/8)
I think im gonna save the rest for PUP or another 75 job. no doubt i could throw 8 more into sword / dagger but i think they will be better used on PUP

COR specific
Cat1
5/5 QD Recast
5/5 QD Acc

Cat2
5/5 Winning streak (i wanna get an extra 100s on my roll durations)
5/5 Snake Eye

I dont feel going for fold will really help me that much as if i bust usually there is a zone nearby otherwise i try not to take the chance. or more than likely ill just wait for bust to wear off. **** happens right?

Loaded deck just seems like a waste of merit points to me, yeah i guess +50% success rate is kinda nice but at teh cost of 100s longer phantom rolls Auto roll 1's or erasing a bad roll it doesnt compare. also its on a 10min cooldown, so unless you throw your cat 1 merits towards lolrandomDeal then its really not worth the effort.

You guys ahve any other opinions or suggestions for me, maybe not going 5/5 on everything?

I do have other jobs to consider when it comes to combat skill merits, do i really need 8/8 will taht but that much more than throwing say 8 merits towards pup's C+ H2H skill along with BST's axe skill...
i think the 8/8 on COR marksmanship is a good idea
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No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

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Cor should just be using dice rolls and helping with cures anyway

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#6 Jun 25 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Combat skills
gonna shoot for Marksmanship 8/8 (currently at 3/8)
I think im gonna save the rest for PUP or another 75 job. no doubt i could throw 8 more into sword / dagger but i think they will be better used on PUP

COR specific
Cat1
5/5 QD Recast
5/5 QD Acc

Cat2
5/5 Winning streak (i wanna get an extra 100s on my roll durations)
5/5 Snake Eye


If you are going to be using Joytoy then SWD merits are almost mandatory. If you are going to be using M Kris, other dagger or Shoot for TP you can be reasonably accurate without dagger merits (Basically full SWD merits gets you to B+ skill which is your native dagger skill)

Cat1 is what I'm doing.

Cat2
Get 1 into loaded deck. It basically assures an ability gets its timer reset if two or more are up. Huge boost to random deal
Snake eye 5/5 is standard
Winning streak vs Fold is dependent on playstyle and what you are doing. I prefer to be aggressive on rolls so I went with more into Fold. I use it nearly as often as Snake eye given my agressive rolling tendencies. I have no problem keeping up a roll rotation with current roll durations.
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#7BelenosSwiftWater, Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 10:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) *sigh* I am one of those people that suffered through that...
#8 Jun 25 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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So you're saying that because a COR put merit(s) into PR recast, RD recast, or Bust duration, they're a bad COR?

Do you know how these people play their COR? Do you know what they use their COR for? Do you know what they enjoy about COR?

I think you're being more naive than those you're accusing as such.
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#9 Jun 25 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
chewzer wrote:
Do you know how these people play their COR? Do you know what they use their COR for?


Look at the RDM Cat 1, everyone did convert, ice, wind, and a few, earth.

Do I know what those RDMs do? Do I know what those RDMs use their RDM for? Most SMNs did phsycial acc, atk, and magic attack as well, do I know what they use it for? Most SCHs all did Helix and Max sublimation over modus veritas duration and grimore recast. I do not know what those SCHs do, but few merited down their 1 minute JA to switch back and forth between arts. So on, and so on and so on.

Point being everyone had merits which made sense as to what works best in the most situations or for personal use, then you get to COR.
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#10 Jun 25 2009 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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i might do 4/5 into winning streak and 1/5 into fold just to be able to fold those double 6's i always seem to roll. i never roll double 6's in monopoly but always do on COR
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Armant wrote:
No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

Omegag wrote:
Cor should just be using dice rolls and helping with cures anyway

Dynamis Member while prepping for Dynamis Qufim wrote:
Is this where treasure hunter feet drop?

#11 Jun 25 2009 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
i might do 4/5 into winning streak and 1/5 into fold just to be able to fold those double 6's i always seem to roll. i never roll double 6's in monopoly but always do on COR


Still need to get one merit into Loaded Deck. Trust me on this. It makes a big difference in the functionality of Random deal.
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#12 Jun 25 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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PR recast/Winning streak are for people who fail at basic math.
Quote:
Are 1 out of 4 CORs bad?

I'd say 3 out of 4 are bad, but least of all for their merit choices.
#13 Jun 25 2009 at 7:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kerberoz wrote:
PR recast/Winning streak are for people who fail at basic math.

Feel free to share the "math" you have on QD accuracy merits.
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#14 Jun 25 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kerberoz wrote:
PR recast/Winning streak are for people who fail at basic math.
Not really, those merits let you handle more rolls at the same time, like for example in Einherjar where Cor buffs on DD's are quite powerful and absolutely obliterate a second bard in performance.

A cyborg Cor may handle 5 rolls at any given time under normal circumstances.
A human non-fail Cor can handle reasonably 4 before merits.

5/5 Winning Streak and PR recast let you handle 8(cyborg-mode) or 7(reasonably for any non-fail Cor)

My personal choice is:

Group 1 5/5 QD recast, 5/5 QD accuracy.
Group 2 5/5 Snake Eye(cuz is no brainer), 3/5 Winning Sreak(6 rolls at same time), 1 Fold for accidents and 1 Loaded Deck to improve Random Deal.

Quote:
Are 1 out of 4 CORs bad?

To be honest I think more like 9 out of 10, that statistic aside, most ppl have no clue on how to play the job, to begging with we can discard 99% of Japanese community.

Sincerely.

Ken.
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#15 Jun 25 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure how many CORs are "bad" but I'd guess it's a significant percentage. I've seen ones that almost never shoot, ones that don't use QD to enhance enfeebs properly, ones who don't double-up on 6. EVER! I've seen CORs who don't have /dnc or don't have /mage. Seen CORs who have /mage and use /mage but don't have any attempt at an MP build, therefore rendering their support heal capabilities almost non-existent.

Even our rolls, which are (aside from relic head) completely unrelated to gear, are vastly vastly improved by merit abilities. I know many CORs who aren't 20/20. If if you've got that, having some COR type combat skill merits (particularly marksmanship) can take our COR up a notch too.

And I haven't even talked about the difference between a COR who puts in a ton of effort at events to get strong gear vs. those who don't, can't or just rely on AH gear.

All those things make a huge difference in a COR's performance. A COR can impact a pt or event in so many different ways (knowledge of when to use which roll is another key aspect some don't have). My Nyzul group once defeated a Cerberus boss with white magic restricted lol. We thought we were screwed but I knew how much easier he is when the melees have Magus n MNK roll. Cerb didn't gain much tp and when he did, his fire-based stuff didn't do much damage at all. A lot of CORs don't even know that those are two of the most powerful rolls that we have.
#16BelenosSwiftWater, Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 11:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Then there is the post about the COR being too bothered to shoot and pull and buff at the same time. Yet it is such a bad unworthy question along with people who say "dats not nice, awwww" *sigh*
#17 Jun 28 2009 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not sure how many CORs are "bad" but I'd guess it's a significant percentage. I've seen ones that almost never shoot, ones that don't use QD to enhance enfeebs properly, ones who don't double-up on 6. EVER! I've seen CORs who don't have /dnc or don't have /mage. Seen CORs who have /mage and use /mage but don't have any attempt at an MP build, therefore rendering their support heal capabilities almost non-existent.

Even our rolls, which are (aside from relic head) completely unrelated to gear, are vastly vastly improved by merit abilities. I know many CORs who aren't 20/20. If if you've got that, having some COR type combat skill merits (particularly marksmanship) can take our COR up a notch too.

And I haven't even talked about the difference between a COR who puts in a ton of effort at events to get strong gear vs. those who don't, can't or just rely on AH gear.

All those things make a huge difference in a COR's performance. A COR can impact a pt or event in so many different ways (knowledge of when to use which roll is another key aspect some don't have). My Nyzul group once defeated a Cerberus boss with white magic restricted lol. We thought we were screwed but I knew how much easier he is when the melees have Magus n MNK roll. Cerb didn't gain much tp and when he did, his fire-based stuff didn't do much damage at all. A lot of CORs don't even know that those are two of the most powerful rolls that we have.


Quoted for truth. These are hella powerful and I have never seen corsairs use these. When they are used, people call you noob and laugh at you.

Corsair roll is good for merit party, even though sam or fighter roll adds more dot to a kill, this roll alone would beat those rolls in exp per hour as the mobs are cleared anyways.

Magus roll should be stacked when fighting heavy magic mobs and is a must when fighting AV or at least attempting to hold him as much as possible before finally dying.

Monk roll is good on salvage bosses, sandworm serket, cerberus, khimaria, the list goes on.

beast roll is deadly for summoners and garuda especially.

drachen roll is a ridiculous roll for an all dragoon party.

Warlocks roll is actually better then wizards roll on most HNMs. I don't see anyone ever using this roll on blms.

Sch roll: read warlocks roll. This is sometimes better in low man blm events where the blm needs as much MP per nuke that they can get along with a refresh roll which is a must.

The only ****** roll a cor has is the pld roll. the other rolls are godly and should never be laughed at for any reason. I do use the pld roll on plds that are being hit by a mob that is using hundred fists though then I change it out.

---------------

quickdraws.

Earth shot is very underrated. Anyone uses earth shot over thunder shot is considered a noob by many.
Earth shot adds extra slow % to the slow spell. I think its way better then thundershot.
#18 Jun 28 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Monk roll is good on salvage bosses, sandworm serket, cerberus, khimaria, the list goes on.
Subtle Blow caps out at 50. For Salvage Bosses, if you're running with 2-3 MNKs as the lone melee here (common occurence), Monks roll isn't so hot.

Monk naturally has Subtle Blow IV, which gives +20 subtle blow. Throw in Auspice from a WHM for +10 subtle blow, +5 subtle blow from Rajas, +4 subtle blow from Melee Gloves (or +5 from Usu hands), +5 subtle blow from Black Belt and Monks roll is less desireable in this particular situation. There are a couple other gear choices to cap out Subtle Blow, but those generally aren't worth the hit to DoT.

I know this is a bit specific, but so is the useage of MNKs roll. Just thought I'd mention it anyhow.
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#19 Jun 28 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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You should be praising a /Mage that does not use MP gear. Of course, if they shouldn't be /Mage to begin with, they fail from the get-go.

Even from a broad perspective of every event in the game, COR should almost never be using MP gear.


Kerb wrote:
I'd say 3 out of 4 are bad, but least of all for their merit choices.

You're being generous, lol.


Also yes, with Auspice, Monk's Roll has lost some of its luster. It hasn't personally changed for me though, as we often send DRK and SAM to tank Salvage MBs.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 4:33pm by Carrilei
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#20 Jun 28 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I merited Phantom Roll recast and I'm not going to make any apologies for it.

Quick Draw accuracy was a given, but I thought back to all the times when I was impatiently waiting for my Phantom Roll to be back so I could reroll after a bust or just get a buff up so I can focus on buffs or leading an event (which I do a lot) and compared it to how often 10 seconds would have made a difference on Quick Draw. The handful of times QD timer was more important didn't compare to how often I wished PR was ready, so I merited it and I'm happy with the results.
#21 Jun 28 2009 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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Couple notes:

I'm one of the CORs who will use warlock's roll when I feel it's more beneficial than wizards roll. Kirin for example. Unfortunately for me, I spent about 95% of my time vs. Kirin as a BLM lol. I know he resists pretty hard for the most part so on the few opportunities I got to go COR, I always handed out warlocks to the BLM pt.

As for MP gear or not, the way my salvage group runs, I find it to be more important than you'd think. We go with one one RDM (depending on the size of the group, 10+ ppl we'd take a 2nd healer, but 6-9 just the one). It's on me, the BRD usually to support heal. Another note is we often split runs if we have 12+ people and send 6 to one zone and 6 to the other. Rather than need 4 healers potentially to deal with the MBs, we only need 2 for the most part. Occasionally a SMN will be #2 healer but a lot of the time it's the RDM, myself (COR/WHM or /SCH) and the BRD. It's on me to paralyna and erase one of the melees on the MB plus toss out some c3s and take some pressure off the RDM. I also end up doing this on chariots, certain NMs and other situations (like the 7-minute gear room or the four-rampart pull and kill to pop Citadel Chelonian which can be hectic with just 6 ppl).

Don't get me wrong. I DO NOT sit in max MP gear the entire run, far from it. I have 6 eq sets that I rotate through as needed — max mp, melee tp with some MP permanently built in (I will never drop below 300 MP because of a gear switch and can do that with just 2 MP pieces on full time... note I have 5 MP merits cuz of my BLM), ranged tp with MP built in, slug, det and QD all with some MP always saved.

I spend most of my time in the melee tp set (assuming I get gear cells of course lol) and tbh that's another reason I'd argue for building a legit MP set. Let's say you have serket ring and loquac. to give yourself an MP boost to by more useful as a support healer (those are my 2 perma-equips as /mage).... then let's say that virga cells don't drop enough (a common problem in ZR where they only drop in one room). You're screwed, right? Not so. The max MP set (which tbh was mostly stuff I already owned on BLM or stuff like crimson hands, legs and feet plus walmart turban which I already used) as long as I get any gear cells at all, I'm fine on MP.

Anyway, i'll typically flip over to the full MP set for the MB to help cure. If i'm missing half my gear (as is sometimes the case in places like ZR and AR), shooting at the MB isn't going to get me very far.

On top of that, what if, say on the charm boss in SSR, for whatever reason, a bunch of charmed people don't hit their weapon switch macro in time and gang rape the RDM. I'll admit cure 3s aren't going to save the world, but I can sit on 527 MP without MP food. If the sh*t hits the fan, I'm about as well-equipped as a COR can be to keep things going. I am working on trying to get that shield Paintorn drops. All jobs can use, MP +20, some emnity - on it... best shield I've seen that a COR can use.

Anyway, those are my own personal myriad of reasons why actually putting some effort into having an MP build is well worth it if you go /mage to something like salvage. If you don't get asked to /mage much, no biggie or if your salvage group insists on RDMX2 for every run then you don't need to be /mage at all. For what we do though, it's well worth it.
#22 Jul 07 2009 at 8:14 AM Rating: Default
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BelenosSwiftWater wrote:

Point being everyone had merits which made sense as to what works best in the most situations or for personal use, then you get to COR.


You mean some jobs might have more or less useless merits than other jobs? Wow!
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