There are only two situations I can imagine that being the case:
1) you are partied with BRD/WHM
2) you are partied with THFs and NINs (jobs that will have Utsusemi regardless)
Every other job can see a substantial benefit by using another subjob.
I guess I'm just pretty used to the 2 bard setup. Its easier to find a relic brd/whm than another competent cor.
I only use COR/NIN in merit for pulling.
What would be the purpose of COR/NIN with M.Kris? Damage mitigation?
Damage mitigation and DoT. With /dnc I suppose you are alleviating a lot of the burden you place on the mage by helping with healing. TP gain with m. kris/joyeuse isn't that far behind tp gain with just m. kris. Joyeuse typically means enough of an acc cut that you are going to be using sushi. Joyeuse acc with sushi on /nin should be low 80s, and m. kris acc should be capped at 95%.
You have ~1.9 swings a round with m. kris at 95% acc and 1.45 swings around with joyeuse at ~82% acc, 4.8 base TP a swing which is 14.37 TP a round. Total delay is 332.8 so you end up at 2.59 TP/sec.
In your setup you were at 80% acc with just m. kris and 5.2 TP a hit. That gives 7.9 TP a round. Delay is 192, so your TP gain is 2.47. If you were /rng it would be 85% acc which is 2.62. I would say for all intents and purposes these numbers are roughly equal.
Edit: here I mean 2.62 ~ 2.59 as it differs by only 1%
DoT with kris/joy is 10.1 and DoT with just m. kris (giving you /rng for 85% acc) is 4.25 (I've also given you 2 swings a round average with m. kris opposed to my 1.9 just to be generous).
This does not take meat into consideration, obviously you will have higher damage. You probably have 350-360 base attack, with minuet IV thats 420 attack. Coeurl subs will be reaching their cap, but lets still just say they are adding 20% damage to everything you do (trying to round up for your sake).
Your melee damage was: 35,138
Boosting your acc from 80 to 85% brings it to: 37,334
That means without subs it would have been: 31,111
However with roughly equal attack joyeuse/kris combo should do ~ 2.35 the DoT which is: 73,110
This is a gain of 41,999 melee damage.
Now for weaponskills. I'm going to be extra generous here and say that you could weaponskill 15% more often if you were /rng because you wouldn't be using sambas (drain samba two lasts 90 second, so you shouldn't have to be doing it but after every third weaponskill or so). At this point I'm excluding barrage.
Now your total weaponskill damage was: 121933
Giving you 15% more weaponskills makes your ws damage: 140,222
The extra TP gain going from 80 to 85% acc brings your ws damage to: 148,985 (this is because you can ws more if you get tp faster)
However that is with subs, without subs you'd be at: 124,154
This is a loss of 24,831 damage for /nin. So on /nin you gain 41,999 from melee and lose 24,831 on weaponskills. Thats a bonus of 17,169 in favor of /nin.
Now there are two more issues to consider. First of all will barrage compensate for the 17,169 damage? It might along with the extra weaponskills. It does take about 7 seconds to fire off sharpshot/barrage so in truth you're probably only gaining half a weaponskill worth of tp since you could be meleeing during that time.
The bigger question for me is what your weaponskill accuracy is. In these numbers I'm assuming capped ws acc. If your accuracy is sitting down at 85% with with /rng using subs then the comparison isn't even close and /nin wins because it will be capped up at 95%. If you are up at 90%+ with meat (which I doubt) then it comes down to barrage. Even supposing barrage added on the 17,169 damage deficit that means best case scenario you are equal damage on /rng and are using more of the mage's mp.
Just to compare if your weaponskills were at 80% with /dnc and 85% with /rng. Then this increases your ws damage again to 158,296. On the other hand if you are at 80% on /dnc and 85% on /rng then /nin with sushi would be at 95%. This would bring the /nin ws damage to 147432. Making /nin only down by 10,864 damage in weaponskills and up 41,999 in melee.
Barrage would have to compensate for 31,135 damage. I am very skeptical that /rng can keep up with /nin based on the numbers you provide. The other option is using sushi on /rng but a lot of that ends up being wasted. Not only that but you'll lose by a lot more in the DoT department and the TP gain won't be THAT much faster.
Edit: I've had m. kris and joyeuse since before corsair came out. I've partied many times on /rng, on /war and on /nin. I've run the numbers every way I can and on colibri /nin just seems to come out on top. Its not to say the others are that far behind, but they also usually involve death. I know people have suddenly gained an aversion to believing /nin can be a DD sub (in part because of the 2 handed update), but in the right situation it can be and at the same time offer damage mitigation. I still like /rng for mamool because I don't get hate as much and my accuracy feel lousy even with sushi at times.
I really do look forward to trying out /dnc. I think with m. kris I could really help a lot in those parties that need a bit extra healing and I'll do my part to hold back and not get hate. But when that is not needed, unless someone can provide me numbers proving otherwise, /nin seems to offer the best option (assuming you have m. kris and joyeuse). Edited, Jan 8th 2009 4:27pm by Kwontos Edited, Jan 8th 2009 4:50pm by Kwontos