so I'm level one and want to be a blu....Follow

I think main subs these days for BLU are NIN, THF, RDM and DNC.
I also think your strategy is sound for starting out at level one. Just remember the subjob level cap is 45 right now and will be moving to 49, so 37 isn't where you need to stop.

My two biggest mains are drk and blu. As such, I feel compelled to ask what the hell you are smoking, and is it legal wherever you live? There is one thing that makes three minute last resort matter, and that is desperate blows, which /drk won't get. /War and berserk would like a word with you. AS for subjob-based souleater, you only get the first tier of stalwart soul at 90, and that means /drk will at that point give like 8% hp lost for 5% hp in damage, instead of 10% lost. It's still a pretty terrible exchange rate, given that drk mains were leery of souleater at 10%/10%. The other 'new' trait /drk gives is occult accumen. That doesn't count, because it only does anything if you're running around as a blu/drk using /drk elemental nukes. And if you are, I will personally come 'round to your house and slap you with a trout. So /war gets more attack (berserk) and double attack trait (saves set points if nothing else), /drk gets less attack (unmerited last resort) and gimp-as-sh*t souleater.

I'm also dubious of your claim that blu/drk, even with triumphant roar, gets more attack than a drk main, especially if said drk main wanted to build for attack as well. I tend to be sitting around the vicinity of maybe 400 attack on my blu, generally hitting more like 600ish on my drk with last resort, higher attack bonus traits, endark (does give an attack boost as well, if you didn't know). That's me hitting 600 attack without really trying. If I wanted to, I could /war and stack berserk with last resort, might well break 800 attack outside abyssea if I tried to get better gear at all. I think you're vastly underestimating the amount of attack drks get, and the difference in attack formulas between 1-handed and 2-handed weapons in particular.

Edit: I could also still merit last resort effect as well, haven't done that yet. Then last resort + berserk would be a full-on attack +50%

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 1:03pm by VonCrown

When I said you only get the first tier of stalwart soul at 90, I meant with drk as a subjob, i.e. blu/drk, at 90, gets stalwart soul 1, exactly as that says. So you're still losing more hp than you're dealing. Better than /drk was without it, but still not that impressive.

And even without /war on drk, I still call BS on blu with triumphant roar and last resort having more attack than even just a drk with un-merited last resort and endark up. Drk has a fair lead over blu in str, which can admittably be made up to varying degree in spells sets, but... Again, I think youre forgetting to take 2-handed attack calculations into effect here. A drk is gonna have 50% more base attack from str alone... And before you run off and misread that as you seem prone to doing, I mean that of the attack that comes from strength, drk will have 50% more because it's using 2-handed weapons. 3 points of attack for every 4 strength, instead of 2.

So drk has 50% more attack from strength, attack +60 from attack bonus traits, +1-50+ from endark, +15-25% from last resort, depending on merits.

Blu/drk has lower base attack from strength, attack +22 from attack bonus trait, +15% from last resort, and +15% from triumphant roar.

So yes, blu has more +% attack bonus, but that's being added onto a considerably lower base, and desperate blow effect merits close the gap in % bonus -considerably-

I really doubt, given roughly equal quality gear, that a blu/drk is gonna beat a drk main, in terms or raw attack number on the equipment screen, /war or not. If you start to factor in the gear the jobs actually get, it swings things even more in drk's favor in that regard.

Of course, this is then also overlookign a critical point- Unless you have an almace, epeening up your blu's attack isn't gonna do a ton for your damage, since attack does jack squat for spells anyways.
I can see your point on using souleater for multi-hit physicals, but I would argue that, especially with /drk's gimpy souleater, /thf will do more over time for your physical spells, especially if you toss on a decent 1-hit spell like vanity dive (which I usually have set for acc bonus anyways).

My point was, generally almace blu's focus more on their melee DoT, non-almace get more damage from their spells, which aren't affected by attack. Yes more attack is generally better for either, but for most blus the effect of lots of attack will be less pronounced than on a heavier DD job.

It shows your argument is weak when all you can fall back on is that souleater is good when you're brewing something. That's like arguing for what cleats are better for stomping on ants.
Obviously you don't /thf in and abyssea xp alliance, but what you do in one of those hardly matters, you're either one of the hordes of gimps who will vaguely contribute by being one of the thousand scratches that brings the target down, or you're remotely skilled/competent and will be tanking no matter what you do or sub. This is all losing sight of the point of the thread- Someone planning on starting out as a LEVEL 1 blu was asking advice for what subs would be most useful.

/drk, even if you can wring some inane situational use out of it, is not THE ONE TRUE SUB they should be leveling. IF they take only one sub, it should most likely be nin. /war can contribute to melee dot. /drk can contribute less to melee dot and boost some spells once every 6 minutes if you don't mind dying (again, exp parties pre-75, not in abyssea). /thf can be a viable boost to your spells in a normal old-school party situation. /dnc has dual wield for those allergic to /nin, and gives a little bit of party support if you don't already have once (and free acc bonus at 60). /rdm has fast cast, and, uh... stuff (don't use /rdm personally, I'm sure someone can argue for it better than I)

I'm not saying blu/drk has no reason to exist ever, though I don't see myself doing it (except maybe during a brew, that does sound funny). The only thing I'm arguing against is someone who is just starting out levelling with /drk as their only sub. And your claim that blu/drk can manage more attack than drk/whateverthehellitwants, because math seems to say otherwise.

''


Clown shoes>Cleats for ant stomping.

/WHM you can cast Haste.
BLU can cast AoE erase on our own.

Pro tip: /whm haste is not about hasting yourself, it's about hasting your party. Animating Wail is self only. Do you even play Blue Mage?

You're like the fountain of bad advice.

In before "diffusion" that is on a timer longer than the duration of wail.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 5:03pm by ItsAMyri

Seeing we have this debate EVERY week as people don't even look on page one. This is what people talked about 10 days ago. And every week someone ask the same question.




What is your level ?

What subs are effective will very much depend on Situation and level.

For example:

If you are lower level, and still levelling, /BST is great for solo outside Abyssea e.g. FOV. /WHM or /RDM is great choice for learning blue magic on lower level mobs, as you can spam dia on them to feed TP etc.

Assuming you are at level 90 and have all spells:

/NIN /DNC /WAR are the core and effective solo. With /THF being an added option for NMs for good burst damage. But you probably know this as you said you have been all over the net!

So, what you then need to decide is where and how you would like to play Blue mage. Your simple options are to play in the style of a Melee DD, focusing on Physical Magic, or a Mage DD focusing on Magical attacks, or a mix of both, or a support role. Would you prefer to solo or to be in groups? Abyssea is another major factor, as the Atmas can now make up for many things any support job is lacking, and changes your strategies completely again.

With that in mind, lets look at the other jobs:

I will assume all of the following on BLU90/Sub45; and that you are aware of the buffs/spells that BLU can provide itself, and have all BLU spells.

/SMN
- Pros: Auto-Refresh, Pet, Pet Buffs, Clear mind III, Max MP boost II.
- Cons: No Utsusemi, No dual wield, Weak pet, No buffs other than Pet buffs, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers.

/WHM
- Pros: Cures, Protect/Shell, Barspells, Auto-Regen, Higher MP pool than melee subs, Clear Mind II, Magic Defense Bonus II(MDB), Teleport Spells.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers. Enhancing Magic for buffs is limited to level of sub. "/whm 138 healing @ 45"
/RDM
- Pros: Cures, Protect/Shell, Barspells, Higher MP pool than melee subs, Fast Cast II, Magic Attack Bonus II(MAB), MDB II, Convert, Refresh, Phalanx, Enfeebling Magic, Elemental Magic.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers, Enhancing Magic for buffs is limited to level of sub, Enfeebling Magic is limited to level of sub, Elemental Magic is limited to level of sub. /rdm Healing @ 45 128. Dark Magic 114. Enhancing 132

/BLM
- Pros: Spikes, Elemental Magic, Higher MP pool than melee subs, Clear Mind III, MAB II, Magic Burst Bonus, Stun, Enfeebling magic, Warp I/II.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers, Enfeebling Magic is limited to level of sub, Elemental Magic is limited to level of sub.

/RNG
- Pros: Widescan IV, Accuracy Bonus II.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of damage modifiers.

/SAM
- Pros: Meditate capped @ 60% TP return on subs, Zanshin, Sekkanoki, Store TP II, Third Eye
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers, Hasso/Seigan bonus is limited to 2H weapons.

/COR
- Pros: Corsair Roll Buffs, limited to one buff as a sub job.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers other than the one buff you can choose.

/BRD
- Pros: Bard Songs, limited to one buff as a sub job.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers other than the one buff you can choose.

/MNK
- Pros: Max HP Boost, Subtle Blow III, Dodge, Focus, Boost, Counter, Counterstance.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield.

/BST
- Pros: Charm*, Vermin/Bird/Lizard/Amorph killer, Widescan III, Reward for pet cure.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers, no Jug pets, (*NB: There is speculation that for /BST to be effective at Charm you main BST must be as high as your current job. You cannot use Charm inside Abyssea.)

/DRK
- Pros: Arcana Killer, Attack Bonus II, Souleater, Stun, Elemental Magic, Enfeebling Magic, slightly higher MP pool than melee subs. Last resort 3 minute attack bonus. Occolt JA
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy modifiers, Enfeebling Magic is limited to level of sub, Elemental Magic is limited to level of sub.

/PLD
- Pros: Shield Bash, Sentinel, Cover, Auto-Refresh, Shield Mastery, Defense Bonus II, Protect, Cure, Flash, slightly higher MP pool than melee subs.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers, Shield Skill is limited to the level of the sub.

/DRG
- Pros: Dragon killer, Accuracy Bonus, Conserve TP.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of damage modifiers, no Wyvern!

/SCH
- Pros: Conserve MP, Max MP Boost, Clear Mind II, Stratagems, Weather effects from storms, Sublimation, Light/Dark Arts boost light/dark based spells.
- Cons: No shadows, No dual wield, No other support in terms of accuracy, or damage modifiers. Sch /healing and dark magic "300"

/PUP
- To be brutally honest, this is the only job I have never levelled, so cannot contribute anything constructive.

The major common factor we are missing is the lack of Utsusemi shadows and Dual Wield. While we have blink shadows from Occultation, they aren't 100% effective like Utsusemi - thus a drop in survivability for the solo BLU (though this can be overcome with various strategies, which can be very effective). Dual Wield is a personal choice, some prefer 2-swords, some players prefer Sword/[Genbu's] shield, but as the majority of our damage is from Spellcasting NOT sword swinging it is up to the individual.

Personally I am a big /NIN fan - with /DNC on occasions. While I have not tried BLU/SCH, I have heard good things and a more in depth guide to BLU/SCH can be found here.



So we don't have the same debate every week, people should lock thois subjob on the maoin board




Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 8:29pm by kimjongil76

This is why you fail.

My point was only that you could do it, and to blanket say I would never do something is fail.
Sure other jobs can do it but so what? So can you, along with a host of other things. To say I am BLU i only do these things is fail, we are the most multi use job in the game and should be open to anything.

Iam am not an advocate of /WHM being the best sub only saying it does have use, maybe you are the only mage? /Ghasp! Imagine that.

For reference I am BLU since ToA release so you can stick that burning comment somewhere :D

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 2:23pm by Quinildorff

ITT: Support jobs that offer status removal, haste, and more healing power are useless because some random guy (Who thinks /drk is a good idea) has plenty of WHMs at every event so why would you ever need any of that when you could just ask your WHM to cast it?

Protip: The entire point of 'support' subjobs is for times when you're lacking in support.

Next up: "You don't need a WS set just let the WARs do all the WSing you're here to cast BLUE MAGIC."

/facepalm

Correction there, it does do something. But only up to the soft cap.

Really it comes down to versatility in a low man, and the thing is, if you are low manning and don't have a whm (or /whm) already, /whm wins.

Edited, Jun 25th 2011 6:05pm by Tarub

I don't know if 8 healing magic skill compared to 0 would make a difference, but 175+ (or whatever /rdm and whm cap at) compared to 0 does for sure.

It's B+ for light arts. The difference is its a full B+, instead of your subbed A+ from /whm.

The bottom line on /sch is for everything it offers, another sub does it better. Healing in a low man, /whm wins. Nuking, /rdm or /blm wins. Solo/party- /nin event - /thf (sometimes - the staple is usually /nin, because- dem shadows.) /sch is a nice catch all for mage like activities, but arts only affects our curing spells, versus almost every other spell from another mage job when switching back and forth. You give up too much in return for very little. The only specific instance I can put /sch ahead is as a back up healer to a whm or duoing healing with a /whm. And the times you'll be asked to be in that spot as a BLU are few and far between.