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New Avatars!Follow

#1 Feb 28 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Alexander and Odin have just been announced at Fanfest!
Wow...
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#2 Feb 28 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Haha! I know pretty cool! We're so lame.. I can't believe I'm refreshing the Twitter page. :)
#3 Feb 28 2010 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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im not really happy with what theyre doing with the new avatars though, the twitter translations say that odin and alexander will only be used for the their one each astral flows, kinda boring and situational.

part of the fun of being a SMN is having fun controlling your avatar, odin and aledander are basicly just once every two hour spells.
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#4 Feb 28 2010 at 3:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I kinda figured that if they gave us something as powerful as perfect Defense that it would be a 2 hour only, or have to have multiple summoners to even use him.
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#5 Feb 28 2010 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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Hahahahahahaha. Are they telling me it took 3 years to add 2 new avatars that can only use Astral Flow? The models where there 4 years ago, so I guess all that work was to make the 2 abilities.
#6 Feb 28 2010 at 4:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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yeah, the avatar models have been there, the animations were there too, and the effects were even there!

they didnt have to make any effects or animation changes at all, it took them this long to just tie the two avatars to smn just to use, one of them every two hours, which basicly only help when your in an endgame event that *might* require those two hours.
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#7 Feb 28 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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And again SMN is left out of the fun.
Come on se! I grow tired of Lame excuses for helping smn. I had hoped for another light based avatar that was usful to us.
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#8 Feb 28 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Hahahahahahaha. Are they telling me it took 3 years to add 2 new avatars that can only use Astral Flow? The models where there 4 years ago, so I guess all that work was to make the 2 abilities.


That's...what I said. Unless there's something big in the new gear / synergy that increases duration of astral flow..I can see alexander being great. But..what about Odin on things like limbus? I don't think it should of been done over Astral flow, maybe on a new mini-2hr JA or something. BUT can't complain too much we'll just have to see how this plays out.
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#9 Feb 28 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's hope in the possible new lv76+ Blood Pacts.. I guess.

Sucks.
#10 Feb 28 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Grats guys! At least they came through.... well, sorta lol.
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#11 Feb 28 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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so.... suddenly i'm seing a reason to want to get the full set of ebur gear for smn. Hopefull increased synergy skill will allow for etching any type of slot on this gear. That way i can try for a total of Astral flow recast -15 so i can use them more often. I wonder if you can keep them out indefinitely after summoning them as long as they are not defeated or released.

Also, I wonder if even these avatars will have their own, very unique favors that can be used with them out. regain on Odin and something like a strong MDB on Alexander could be useful.

And even still. I wonder if they will have decent melee damage on their own and cast spells or use abilities in addition to attacking without using the bloodpact command... lots of things in this update will have to be seen to be understood it seems.




edit: OH! I also hope a few jobs get a useful item or two from the avatar battles obtaining these two will require. I'd love a new light based attachment for my pup ripped out of alexander's motherboard.

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 3:31pm by shadowkind
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#12 Feb 28 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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looks like fenrir might get something too when they announce the actual patch notes.

They showed fenrir without saying why.
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#13 Feb 28 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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SE had said they werent going to be normal avatars like garuda or fenrir, so I'm not surprised.

And we don't even have them yet, so don't write it off just yet.

A taru with 1400 mp may do ridiculous damage with zantetsuken on a notorious monster. No way to tell yet.

And perfect defense may be awesome for NMS like ultima (absorbing some citadel buster so you can zerg it down) and dynamis lord (damage and debuffs)
#14 Feb 28 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, sounds really cool. aoe attk/aoe defense
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#15 Feb 28 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still pondering the mechanics of how these Avatars might work. According to the description it says both Perfect Defense and Zantetsuken are more effective depending on remaining MP. Yet if they are active during Astral Flow, you could have max MP the whole duration. Perhaps this is implying that Alexander and Odin have other abilities?

Well, I don't know, it's just conjecture. Perhaps I'm hoping for something that isn't there...

Edit: Thinking about it differently, apparently the strength of the two abilities depends on when you use it. Such as if you use them while your MP is full they're more powerful, but if you use them while most of your MP is already gone they are weaker. That'll make when to use them a bit more strategic. Perhaps they won't be as effective as a last ditch effort to save yourself.

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 5:26pm by Altreer
#16 Feb 28 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't imagine the translations and info we got is right.

First off, if Odin and Alexander are only available during Astral Flow, then you need to summon random avatar, astral flow, then release, resummon these NEW ones, just to BP once or twice.

It almost have to be meant that "these abilities we just talked about are the 2 hour moves, not something you can use often, they'll do other things the other time".

Of course it is SE we are talking about, and they can make things worse than you could even dream of.
#17 Feb 28 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mellowy wrote:
I can't imagine the translations and info we got is right.

First off, if Odin and Alexander are only available during Astral Flow, then you need to summon random avatar, astral flow, then release, resummon these NEW ones, just to BP once or twice.

It almost have to be meant that "these abilities we just talked about are the 2 hour moves, not something you can use often, they'll do other things the other time".

Of course it is SE we are talking about, and they can make things worse than you could even dream of.


SE already said that by summoning Alex & Odin you will automatically cause Astral Flow to become active through the act of simply summoning them.

They also said that Astral Flow will now be able to be activated without an avatar out. It's all on the Vanafest 2010 site.
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#18 Feb 28 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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While it is a letdown, and it doesn't fix Summoner, there's no doubt that at the very least, Perfect Defense will see a ton of use. It's basically an AoE version of PLD's 2 hour, but better. Like someone said, you could keep an entire DD party up to attack as much as they want during Citadel Buster. A rotation of SMNs using this could be key to some of the most difficult fights in the game, like Pandemonium Warden, etc.
#19 Feb 28 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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Like SE said, they're going to focus now on making jobs more capable at endgame. This is obvious of this, and just like JingWoo stated Alexander might see a lot of use in endgame events. Any further hope of SMN getting adjustments so that it fits into a party better is probably not going to happen at this point.
#20 Feb 28 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I mean it's really not a bad thing. Perfect defense can become something of a super-tank/zrg strategy similar to the way soul voice makes a lot of things possible.
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#21 Feb 28 2010 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Jimie wrote:
Mellowy wrote:
I can't imagine the translations and info we got is right.

First off, if Odin and Alexander are only available during Astral Flow, then you need to summon random avatar, astral flow, then release, resummon these NEW ones, just to BP once or twice.

It almost have to be meant that "these abilities we just talked about are the 2 hour moves, not something you can use often, they'll do other things the other time".

Of course it is SE we are talking about, and they can make things worse than you could even dream of.


SE already said that by summoning Alex & Odin you will automatically cause Astral Flow to become active through the act of simply summoning them.

They also said that Astral Flow will now be able to be activated without an avatar out. It's all on the Vanafest 2010 site.


Oh, hadn't noticed it was posted there yet. Was just reading a twitter.

But I feel completely lied to now. The 3 year old promise was "New AvatarS that work in a completely different way without relying on the BP timer".

This really rivals the 5 year old delay to fix out of range on BPs and ward range.
#22 Feb 28 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
pixelpop wrote:
yeah, the avatar models have been there, the animations were there too, and the effects were even there!

they didnt have to make any effects or animation changes at all, it took them this long to just tie the two avatars to smn just to use, one of them every two hours, which basicly only help when your in an endgame event that *might* require those two hours.


The way it sounds makes me think that they initially had other avatars in mind and were working with them (when they had suggested that they'd be avatars that don't focus on using abilities like the current avatars do), but then that didn't work in one way or another and then had to scrap them.
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#23 Feb 28 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah, the avatar models have been there, the animations were there too, and the effects were even there!

they didnt have to make any effects or animation changes at all, it took them this long to just tie the two avatars to smn just to use, one of them every two hours, which basicly only help when your in an endgame event that *might* require those two hours.


The way it sounds makes me think that they initially had other avatars in mind and were working with them (when they had suggested that they'd be avatars that don't focus on using abilities like the current avatars do), but then that didn't work in one way or another and then had to scrap them.


Sadly, I think this is exactly what SE meant. Alexander and Odin won't have their own bloodpacts, they won't be used in general combat, so effectively, we won't be using them like the rest of our avatars.
#24 Feb 28 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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They could end up acting like most mob's avatars do (except in Dynamis) where when they use Astral Flow their summon appears just to use their special ability and disappear. Based on the wording (which isn't very reliable anyway) of the notes, the part about how Astral Flow will end upon the Avatar's release, I'm thinking the situation where the avatar appears only momentarily to do the move.

This would be akin to giving us, in essence, two more 2hours. If you take it like invincible, benediction, or those other 'instant' 2hours, it appears to make some sense then. Think of Alexander being a party wide Invincible or perhaps Odin as being like a Majin Gakure (of course this is just an analogy).

The only case in which it might not be this is, if the avatar releases itself or we still release it. If we don't, then we can go on to say that perhaps there is something else they do, otherwise it can be assumed that they have one move, it is instant, and Astral Flow ends immediately upon their disappearance.
#25 Feb 28 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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I don't see the point in Odin at all. Unless it does some kind of tremendous damage, similar to melee DD 2hour (100 fists, Mighty Strikes, EES, etc) against NMs, it'll be useless.

Alexander looks interesting though.
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#26 Feb 28 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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To me Alexander is more useful, as mentioned above, it can be strategically used with several summoners to make pretty good extensions of defense, which can be helpful in taking down high damaging NMs.

Odin seems more like an OH SHI- use, such as in a Dynamis zone where there are accidental links that might cause a wipe, where Odin can come in and take out a few of them to give a fighting chance.
#27 Feb 28 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Either way, I'm stoked. This is bringing XI back for me, no doubt at all. Think about it guys. We're finally getting the avatars we wanted for so long. And for me at least, that's the real joy: shiny new toys.

That said, how can anyone really have an opinion on the ability? We really don't know how Odin or Alex will work exactly. If perfect defense is just a 50% damage reduction for a couple minutes, then I'll be underwhelmed. If it can reach 100%, then we're in for a treat.

Odin is going to be really interesting. I don't want them to fudge it up like they did with Diabolos' 2hr (random percentage?) and the initial release of the merit pacts.

Simply put, make it POWERFUL and ACCURATE. It's our 2 hr ability, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be at the top of the spike dmg chain. Summoner has historically been known for the "big shot," make this it! If, against NMs, it's even somewhat comparable to the other avatars AF abilities, then I will be sorely disappointed.

#28 Mar 01 2010 at 6:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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"Either way, I'm stoked. This is bringing XI back for me, no doubt at all. Think about it guys. We're finally getting the avatars we wanted for so long. And for me at least, that's the real joy: shiny new toys.

That said, how can anyone really have an opinion on the ability? We really don't know how Odin or Alex will work exactly. If perfect defense is just a 50% damage reduction for a couple minutes, then I'll be underwhelmed. If it can reach 100%, then we're in for a treat.

Odin is going to be really interesting. I don't want them to fudge it up like they did with Diabolos' 2hr (random percentage?) and the initial release of the merit pacts.

Simply put, make it POWERFUL and ACCURATE. It's our 2 hr ability, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be at the top of the spike dmg chain. Summoner has historically been known for the "big shot," make this it! If, against NMs, it's even somewhat comparable to the other avatars AF abilities, then I will be sorely disappointed. "


well im glad you can be so positive about it, i dont see it as finally getting the avatars we've been wanting.

someone said that it seems SE had other ideas they were working as far as new avatars but just couldnt get it right, so they just eventually settled with what were getting, well i was thinking the exact same thing. we get two new 2hours, which i dont see Odins being used very often at all, at least alexander will be seen once in a while for major endgame.
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#29 Mar 01 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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OK yeah so definitely a bit of a let down, these are not exactly "new avatars." But the bright side of things is that AF is mostly useless for damage at 75, just a way of irking out some extra MP in a pinch. This will effectively give us two different (useful) two hour abilities, something no other job has. And I am willing to bet that the effects will be pretty **** good. I just better not have to beat Einherjar to get it.

Edited, Mar 1st 2010 8:07am by theronmoore
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#30 Mar 01 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Every avatar save Carbuncle we've got we had to fight to get, so it is pretty much a sure thing we'll be fighting these two. I'm certainly hoping, though, that it is just a fight that can be completed by a party and that getting the quests to start the fights won't be too difficult either.
#31 Mar 01 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Tsolamogola wrote:
I don't see the point in Odin at all. Unless it does some kind of tremendous damage, similar to melee DD 2hour (100 fists, Mighty Strikes, EES, etc) against NMs, it'll be useless.


SMN burn, easy way.

Or, most likely, enough MISS messages to log you out of the game.
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#32 Mar 01 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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theronmoore wrote:
I just better not have to beat Einherjar to get it.


Seconded.
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#33 Mar 01 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6r1O0IA9I&feature=channel

Part showing Alexander and Odin starts around 7:20.

It appears that the two avatars control themselves when they appear, using their special right away. A few things remain interesting to me. The first is the two specials don't consume any MP, so after you use them you can keep fighting. The summoner still apparantly releases the avatars (at least for Odin, the summoner was hidden behind Alexander). Lastly, at least Odin doesn't fight back when attacked, as shown by the imp hitting him but he didn't flinch until he was released.

Thoughts?
#34 Mar 01 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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They really need to set every blood pact on their own timers.
#35 Mar 02 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Wonder if Odin, when summoned will use his ability multiple times.
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#36 Mar 02 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
I like the direction they took with Alex and Odin. Like others have said, it may be good enough to the point where SMN now has 2 primary 2hrs instead of just 1.

Though my concerns also echo those of others:
- How effective will the abilities be (someone mentioned using Perfect Defense with Dynamis Lord)
- Will you need to complete ToAU and Einhenjar to be able to flag the quests.

Definitely very interested in seeing how things go.
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#37 Mar 02 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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While it is nice to be the job with the most useful 2 hours, the fact that you can only use one of them each 2 hours is as I've always said, too restrictive.

That is really how I view most updates of most things. Amount of seconds per hour I'll get any benefit from it. These give me about half a second per hour of action (though somewhat longer duration on the result of the buff). And a big reason behind why I tend to complain often.
#38 Mar 02 2010 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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The way I see it is this is SE's first showing of how they are trying to update jobs now being more endgame inclined. While our effectiveness as SMNs for most endgame things up at this point has been... moderate, if these 2hrs prove to be very powerful, it will ensure that whatever event we might do we may be asked to go along for just this purpose. It might feel like we're used for just one thing then, but think about most jobs, they're used for one thing. It might be a hard pill to swallow for SMNs who are used to being able to at least do everything to a degree, but I will be happy to know if an LS asks me to come along even if I'm only there for Alexander when the boss comes around.
#39 Mar 03 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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OR our lv99 merits will see Odin and Alexander's other BP.
Lvl7599 BP all over again!
#40 Mar 03 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
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Mellowy wrote:
While it is nice to be the job with the most useful 2 hours, the fact that you can only use one of them each 2 hours is as I've always said, too restrictive.

That is really how I view most updates of most things. Amount of seconds per hour I'll get any benefit from it. These give me about half a second per hour of action (though somewhat longer duration on the result of the buff). And a big reason behind why I tend to complain often.


I agree that these 2 new avatars do sound a bit restrictive. The potency of these 2 hours will have to be extremely strong to justify confining them to Astral Flow only. Honestly, I don't understand why we can't summon the 2 of them normally and have their 2 hours be just that, 2 hours. I know the development team mentioned wanting to maintain the strong image of the two avatars, but I think that could still have been achieved without making them Astral Flow only. Again, I'm withholding judgment until I see how strong they are.

I don't however agree with the "amount of seconds per hour I'll get any benefit from it." There are a few 2 hours in the game, Chainspell stun comes to mind, that are extremely powerful. You may not use it in your every day activities but it can be in high demand on certain difficult mobs. The ability to stun lock a monster for a minute is very useful. If any job could effectively do that, it would get invited to various fights on that merit alone.

You are correct in that a 2-hour is not going to effectively fix any problems a job may have because of its limited use. It can however make a job more attractive in certain situations. And in the case of chainspell, those situations aren't infrequent. Let's wait and see what they give us this time . . .

On a side note, I LOVE Odin's summoning animation!
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#41 Mar 03 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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I don't however agree with the "amount of seconds per hour I'll get any benefit from it." There are a few 2 hours in the game, Chainspell stun comes to mind, that are extremely powerful. You may not use it in your every day activities but it can be in high demand on certain difficult mobs. The ability to stun lock a monster for a minute is very useful. If any job could effectively do that, it would get invited to various fights on that merit alone.


Yes, but assume RDM didn't have convert, refresh, gravity, phalanx etc and were just considered poor healers... would SE adding chainspell 6 years into the game be something you'd cheer for, or would you have rather had convert or gravity added as something you could use more often?

I like PLAYING the game, so additions like "This 2 hour will make people want you to climb up all the way to the top of delfkuts tower, then 2 hour, and watch as the melee zerg the boss down" feel boring and pointless.

I'd honestly rather have job specific emotions than these new avatars from the view of what fun it will bring me per hour.
#42 Mar 03 2010 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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Since they've also said there's definitely going to be new Bloodpacts for existing avatars, naturally I cannot help but ponder what they can do at this point. We've already got 70 pacts and merit pacts for our current highest tier physical and magical damage, while most of the highest wards are on Carbuncle, Fenrir, and Diabolos. Any thoughts/wishes about where they might go from here?
#43 Mar 03 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mellowy wrote:

Yes, but assume RDM didn't have convert, refresh, gravity, phalanx etc and were just considered poor healers... would SE adding chainspell 6 years into the game be something you'd cheer for, or would you have rather had convert or gravity added as something you could use more often?

I like PLAYING the game, so additions like "This 2 hour will make people want you to climb up all the way to the top of delfkuts tower, then 2 hour, and watch as the melee zerg the boss down" feel boring and pointless.

I'd honestly rather have job specific emotions than these new avatars from the view of what fun it will bring me per hour.


That is an entirely different point you are arguing here then what you mentioned in the post I responded to. In fact, I conceded in my response that a 2 hour, no matter how awesome it is, cannot fix a job that is broken.

And unless benefit = fun in your usage, that is also a different matter. I was merely commenting that a 2hr can be incredibly beneficial, even though it will not get much use per hour of game play. That is the only point I was making.
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#44 Mar 04 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder how hard it will be to get odin and alexander just to use them for the 2 hour... >.<
#45 Mar 04 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Because of their nature as being only 2hr usable, I would certainly cry foul if they made it a difficult fight or require being at or near the end of the ToAU storyline just for their use. Of course I would wish for something more fun, like how unlocking the job itself was fun by finding all the weather. Though this is SE we're talking about...

They're probably going to make Odin's Pact a Rare/Ex .5% drop from Odin in Einherjar, and Alexander requiring beating ToAU, then fighting him again in a much more difficult mode.
#46 Mar 04 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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I still have the small amount of hope that Astral Flow will last longer than 3 minutes if you have these avatars out. I can't find it anywhere, but I remember reading that Astral Flow would only lose its effect after you release either Alexander or Odin if it became active when you summoned them.

Here's to hoping...!
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#47 Mar 04 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Although the video shows them using one ability, and automatically, I would still hope that they can do more than that.
#48 Mar 04 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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That or they add evoliths or some type of gear that increases duration of your 2hr..that would be helpful..but maybe that's too powerful
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#49 Mar 04 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
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They already have evoliths that lower the recast of 2hrs, but like a measly few minutes. Perhaps they'll get better ones that'll lower it substantially?
#50 Mar 04 2010 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
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Hahahahahahaha. Are they telling me it took 3 years to add 2 new avatars that can only use Astral Flow? The models where there 4 years ago, so I guess all that work was to make the 2 abilities.


A question: Is this (Odin & Alexander) what they've been working on and putting off time after time for a full year?

It seems strange because Odin & Alexander are being implemented in a very limited form (probably for story purposes since they are awake, not sleeping). It doesn't seem to jive with some of the interviews from 2009 that referenced the avatars unless there is a separate set in development that they are keeping quiet (like Caitsith, Atomos).

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The way it sounds makes me think that they initially had other avatars in mind and were working with them (when they had suggested that they'd be avatars that don't focus on using abilities like the current avatars do), but then that didn't work in one way or another and then had to scrap them.

I'm wondering if they're still working on it. Or it could be someone's endless brainstorming project, an endless work in progress. Still, SMN needs some real avatars to make up for waiting 5 years, not "Okay, Zantetsuken! Now ***** you guys, I'm going home. Hi ho, Sleipnir!".

It would be nice if they released a real expansion with real new lands (geographic lands, not parallel dimensions filled with giant crabs), and implement some new avatars through there (Magus Sisters, Asura, Kujata would be the most interesting, though Remora would be a humorous choice).


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#51 Mar 05 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
It seems strange because Odin & Alexander are being implemented in a very limited form (probably for story purposes since they are awake, not sleeping). It doesn't seem to jive with some of the interviews from 2009 that referenced the avatars unless there is a separate set in development that they are keeping quiet (like Caitsith, Atomos).


The ironic part is that Alexander as a boss works exactly like a none movable avatar... Kind of like SE thought Alexander could replace carbuncle and decided that they didn't want us to stop using carby so they butchered Alex instead.
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