New Avatars!Follow

Haha! I know pretty cool! We're so lame.. I can't believe I'm refreshing the Twitter page. :)

I kinda figured that if they gave us something as powerful as perfect Defense that it would be a 2 hour only, or have to have multiple summoners to even use him.

yeah, the avatar models have been there, the animations were there too, and the effects were even there!

they didnt have to make any effects or animation changes at all, it took them this long to just tie the two avatars to smn just to use, one of them every two hours, which basicly only help when your in an endgame event that *might* require those two hours.

That's...what I said. Unless there's something big in the new gear / synergy that increases duration of astral flow..I can see alexander being great. But..what about Odin on things like limbus? I don't think it should of been done over Astral flow, maybe on a new mini-2hr JA or something. BUT can't complain too much we'll just have to see how this plays out.

Grats guys! At least they came through.... well, sorta lol.

looks like fenrir might get something too when they announce the actual patch notes.

They showed fenrir without saying why.

Yeah, sounds really cool. aoe attk/aoe defense

I can't imagine the translations and info we got is right.

First off, if Odin and Alexander are only available during Astral Flow, then you need to summon random avatar, astral flow, then release, resummon these NEW ones, just to BP once or twice.

It almost have to be meant that "these abilities we just talked about are the 2 hour moves, not something you can use often, they'll do other things the other time".

Of course it is SE we are talking about, and they can make things worse than you could even dream of.

While it is a letdown, and it doesn't fix Summoner, there's no doubt that at the very least, Perfect Defense will see a ton of use. It's basically an AoE version of PLD's 2 hour, but better. Like someone said, you could keep an entire DD party up to attack as much as they want during Citadel Buster. A rotation of SMNs using this could be key to some of the most difficult fights in the game, like Pandemonium Warden, etc.

I mean it's really not a bad thing. Perfect defense can become something of a super-tank/zrg strategy similar to the way soul voice makes a lot of things possible.

The way it sounds makes me think that they initially had other avatars in mind and were working with them (when they had suggested that they'd be avatars that don't focus on using abilities like the current avatars do), but then that didn't work in one way or another and then had to scrap them.

They could end up acting like most mob's avatars do (except in Dynamis) where when they use Astral Flow their summon appears just to use their special ability and disappear. Based on the wording (which isn't very reliable anyway) of the notes, the part about how Astral Flow will end upon the Avatar's release, I'm thinking the situation where the avatar appears only momentarily to do the move.

This would be akin to giving us, in essence, two more 2hours. If you take it like invincible, benediction, or those other 'instant' 2hours, it appears to make some sense then. Think of Alexander being a party wide Invincible or perhaps Odin as being like a Majin Gakure (of course this is just an analogy).

The only case in which it might not be this is, if the avatar releases itself or we still release it. If we don't, then we can go on to say that perhaps there is something else they do, otherwise it can be assumed that they have one move, it is instant, and Astral Flow ends immediately upon their disappearance.

To me Alexander is more useful, as mentioned above, it can be strategically used with several summoners to make pretty good extensions of defense, which can be helpful in taking down high damaging NMs.

Odin seems more like an OH SHI- use, such as in a Dynamis zone where there are accidental links that might cause a wipe, where Odin can come in and take out a few of them to give a fighting chance.

well im glad you can be so positive about it, i dont see it as finally getting the avatars we've been wanting.

someone said that it seems SE had other ideas they were working as far as new avatars but just couldnt get it right, so they just eventually settled with what were getting, well i was thinking the exact same thing. we get two new 2hours, which i dont see Odins being used very often at all, at least alexander will be seen once in a while for major endgame.

Every avatar save Carbuncle we've got we had to fight to get, so it is pretty much a sure thing we'll be fighting these two. I'm certainly hoping, though, that it is just a fight that can be completed by a party and that getting the quests to start the fights won't be too difficult either.

Seconded.

They really need to set every blood pact on their own timers.

I like the direction they took with Alex and Odin. Like others have said, it may be good enough to the point where SMN now has 2 primary 2hrs instead of just 1.

Though my concerns also echo those of others:
- How effective will the abilities be (someone mentioned using Perfect Defense with Dynamis Lord)
- Will you need to complete ToAU and Einhenjar to be able to flag the quests.

Definitely very interested in seeing how things go.

The way I see it is this is SE's first showing of how they are trying to update jobs now being more endgame inclined. While our effectiveness as SMNs for most endgame things up at this point has been... moderate, if these 2hrs prove to be very powerful, it will ensure that whatever event we might do we may be asked to go along for just this purpose. It might feel like we're used for just one thing then, but think about most jobs, they're used for one thing. It might be a hard pill to swallow for SMNs who are used to being able to at least do everything to a degree, but I will be happy to know if an LS asks me to come along even if I'm only there for Alexander when the boss comes around.

I agree that these 2 new avatars do sound a bit restrictive. The potency of these 2 hours will have to be extremely strong to justify confining them to Astral Flow only. Honestly, I don't understand why we can't summon the 2 of them normally and have their 2 hours be just that, 2 hours. I know the development team mentioned wanting to maintain the strong image of the two avatars, but I think that could still have been achieved without making them Astral Flow only. Again, I'm withholding judgment until I see how strong they are.

I don't however agree with the "amount of seconds per hour I'll get any benefit from it." There are a few 2 hours in the game, Chainspell stun comes to mind, that are extremely powerful. You may not use it in your every day activities but it can be in high demand on certain difficult mobs. The ability to stun lock a monster for a minute is very useful. If any job could effectively do that, it would get invited to various fights on that merit alone.

You are correct in that a 2-hour is not going to effectively fix any problems a job may have because of its limited use. It can however make a job more attractive in certain situations. And in the case of chainspell, those situations aren't infrequent. Let's wait and see what they give us this time . . .

On a side note, I LOVE Odin's summoning animation!

Since they've also said there's definitely going to be new Bloodpacts for existing avatars, naturally I cannot help but ponder what they can do at this point. We've already got 70 pacts and merit pacts for our current highest tier physical and magical damage, while most of the highest wards are on Carbuncle, Fenrir, and Diabolos. Any thoughts/wishes about where they might go from here?

I wonder how hard it will be to get odin and alexander just to use them for the 2 hour... >.<

I still have the small amount of hope that Astral Flow will last longer than 3 minutes if you have these avatars out. I can't find it anywhere, but I remember reading that Astral Flow would only lose its effect after you release either Alexander or Odin if it became active when you summoned them.

Here's to hoping...!

That or they add evoliths or some type of gear that increases duration of your 2hr..that would be helpful..but maybe that's too powerful

A question: Is this (Odin & Alexander) what they've been working on and putting off time after time for a full year?

It seems strange because Odin & Alexander are being implemented in a very limited form (probably for story purposes since they are awake, not sleeping). It doesn't seem to jive with some of the interviews from 2009 that referenced the avatars unless there is a separate set in development that they are keeping quiet (like Caitsith, Atomos).


I'm wondering if they're still working on it. Or it could be someone's endless brainstorming project, an endless work in progress. Still, SMN needs some real avatars to make up for waiting 5 years, not "Okay, Zantetsuken! Now screw you guys, I'm going home. Hi ho, Sleipnir!".

It would be nice if they released a real expansion with real new lands (geographic lands, not parallel dimensions filled with giant crabs), and implement some new avatars through there (Magus Sisters, Asura, Kujata would be the most interesting, though Remora would be a humorous choice).