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#102 Oct 27 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Default
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Wow, I read this, and I say wow. Summoner's get an all around pt buff. Wow! Lol.

Now, while an entire-pt buff sounds really great, I have to definately agree with Mellowy. Yea, SMNs will become a bit more popular, but ONLY because of the buff. And let's face it, invites to anything but SMN burns at 70+, non-existant, unless, as Mellowy had already covered, it will be the "you give us that buff or gtfo" thing.
But on the lighter side, not every party will be like that, and for everything else, SMNs will still end up being third rate healers. As for endgame, SMNs will quite possibly shine, unless the "supressed power" simply turns out to be an aweful effect.

As for the reduced perpetuation, it will not be more than 1mp/tick. I am willing to bet an entire month's worth of paychecks on that. The buffs will not affect the avatar's themselves, and I am nearly willing to make a monstrous bet on that as well.

So, depending on exactly how "supressed" the avatar's power becomes, this ability might do nothing more than turn the SMNs even more into peoples' **** monkeys. On THAT upside, it will get SMNs a slightly larger PT invite rate, as I have said earlier.

*** rephrasing my first statement.
Wow, SMNs get an entire-pt 'aura' with summoned avatars! The fact alone that SMNs will have to keep their avatars summoned makes this incredible. While most SMNs most likely not get a choice, at least now they get to actually summon and KEEP OUT an avatar! (In PTs that is.)

Edited, Oct 27th 2009 12:10pm by FinalPlay

Edited, Oct 27th 2009 12:12pm by FinalPlay
#103 Oct 27 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Default
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FinalPlay wrote:
Wow, I read this, and I say wow. Summoner's get an all around pt buff. Wow! Lol.

Now, while an entire-pt buff sounds really great, I have to definately agree with Mellowy. Yea, SMNs will become a bit more popular, but ONLY because of the buff. And let's face it, invites to anything but SMN burns at 70+, non-existant, unless, as Mellowy had already covered, it will be the "you give us that buff or gtfo" thing.
But on the lighter side, not every party will be like that, and for everything else, SMNs will still end up being third rate healers. As for endgame, SMNs will quite possibly shine, unless the "supressed power" simply turns out to be an aweful effect.

As for the reduced perpetuation, it will not be more than 1mp/tick. I am willing to bet an entire month's worth of paychecks on that. The buffs will not affect the avatar's themselves, and I am nearly willing to make a monstrous bet on that as well.

So, depending on exactly how "supressed" the avatar's power becomes, this ability might do nothing more than turn the SMNs even more into peoples' **** monkeys. On THAT upside, it will get SMNs a slightly larger PT invite rate, as I have said earlier.

*** rephrasing my first statement.
Wow, SMNs get an entire-pt 'aura' with summoned avatars! The fact alone that SMNs will have to keep their avatars summoned makes this incredible. While most SMNs most likely not get a choice, at least now they get to actually summon and KEEP OUT an avatar! (In PTs that is.)


They likely could have greatly increased SMN party invites just by doubling the duration of Hastega to 3:00 the same as standard haste.
#104 Oct 28 2009 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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We have the ability to reach 3:00 duration already, and yet nobody seems to care. I wouldn't say so much as care I guess but people still don't think it's 3:00 cap and has a % the same as white mage. Which I can't get over since the information is out there. Increasing the duration of that to naturally be 3:00 would do nothing for us, we need to look at the bigger picture.

Boosts to certain pacts that use up TP & Prepet cost, both which, to me, go hand in hand. Without worrying about the avatar taking down our MP pool we can keep them out, they can gather TP and we will see a drastic difference in how our avatars perform. Of course this is all considering that the negative side of the JA to the avatar, if any, is too much for it's own good.

This update can do a lot for us, or it will just be a small boost that helps us when we're doing already what we're doing. Would be nice to be able to go into merit pt's but I don't think we'll be seeing us in those, gather some Tp and merit pact/70 pact while pt buffing and curing would be fun to do again.
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#105 Oct 28 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm really curious... why is restricting ourselves to a SINGLE avatar for the duration of it's ethereal life a good thing?

People seem to be focusing on the fact we have new buffs and not realising the sacrifices we need to make in order to gain them.

This update changes nothing with regards to our invite rate. We're still second-rate healers with a pet and these 'favor' effects simply aren't amazing enough to get excited about. Remember, at their absolute peak they only match a Cor's 'lucky roll', which for most buffs is just an average bonus. Cor's really shine most when they hit that coveted 11 and skills like their Refresh hit a whopping 5mp/tick.

Edited, Oct 28th 2009 2:32pm by Crystan
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#106 Oct 28 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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You shouldn't see it as restricting, because i'm sure the effect won't take very long at all to cap. You can always release and switch avatars for a ward or rage ability and then use favor again with your next avatar. 5 minutes is not a very long time if you consider that timing and rythym will be key to using this ability. If you cycle a rage and or ward > avatar's favor, use main avatar for 3-4 minutes > rebuff > repeat you shouldn't have a problem. There's also plenty of time for siphon and sublimation in between the time you buff and use favor.


I could ask the same question. Other than situations where you don't want to feed a mob tp and you need to conserve your mp, how is not having an avatar out a good thing? I have always been shocked at how the summoner community doesn't realize what a crippling disadvantage it is to not have an avatar out. Casting a summon is not quick, never has been, and in a situation when you need something done within 3 seconds you can't afford the hassle of summon/placement/pact. When you do that it takes 10-15 seconds to actually do something and that's far too long. When a sleep is asked for it's usually needed now! same thing with healing from spring water and healing ruby 2, the sooner the better. If you don't have any avatar out and get caught off guard you're disadvantaged because of the time it takes to summon.


The only places in the game i can think that having an avatar out would be a bad thing is sea (fake aggro) and dynamis (when hate on big pulls gets wonky and you want to avoid avatars waking a mob). Even in dynamis I can see places where full timing diabolos especially in a blm or tank party could be useful. On a big pull or link having diabolos out already can mean quick response on nightmare, instead of the usual pull him out to nightmare and it's already done by the time you finish summoning. I think with most situations in the game with summoner there is a main avatar that you use and then the others you use briefly for a buff they may have.

Other than the sacrifice of possibly weakening the avatar who's favor you use, I don't see any loss with this update, only gains.
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* **** please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#107 Oct 28 2009 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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shadowkind wrote:
Casting a summon is not quick, never has been, and in a situation when you need something done within 3 seconds you can't afford the hassle of summon/placement/pact. When you do that it takes 10-15 seconds to actually do something and that's far too long. When a sleep is asked for it's usually needed now! same thing with healing from spring water and healing ruby 2, the sooner the better. If you don't have any avatar out and get caught off guard you're disadvantaged because of the time it takes to summon.

Which is why I thought avatars should be switched to Job Abilities with Instant Cast, rather than spells with 10 second cast times, a long time ago.

Also always thought it would be interesting if SE gave us the ability to "set" spells for avatars, similar to Blu or Pup.
If we could choose our avatar of choice, based on their specific favor, and then set a certain amount of ward/rages to customize a single avatar to a specific event. Now I don't ever expect this to happen, due to our AF2 body/head and avatar specific pieces like Garuda Head, Levi Head, or Carby mitts, as well as merit BP's. I also know a large group of people would be against this idea, because it limits versatility in situations where you don't know what to expect. But it was a neat idea to consider when Pup and Blu where originally introduced.
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#108 Oct 29 2009 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Btw, it actually looks like we won't get any avatar after all.

So much for SE's 2006 comment "soon new avatars" and summer 2009 comment "just around the corner". At least it is awesome to work for SE. "You coming to work today?" "I'm just around the corner!" "Ok, see you in 9 months"
#109 Oct 29 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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If you're talking about finding new avatars in the datamining, then i would guess that if they were adding a new avatar or two they would not add the data in the pre-update. They keep avatar battle info for the day of, just like everything they want to build suspense for and keep a surprise until the update. They need to release some pretty good update notes next week before the update though, because outside of the job adjustments and shantoto mini scenario this update is looking pretty low carb.
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* **** please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#110 Oct 30 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes, it is usually on the day, but those were surprise avatars. This is 3 year old avatars we are talking about that the only surprise is that we aren't getting them.
#111 Oct 30 2009 at 8:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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When they pop an announcement about new avatar battles the day of the update everyone will be shocked and surprised, and all us summoners will be rolling out eyes at this pleasantly "unexpected surprise"
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* **** please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#112 Oct 30 2009 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Something about this update I didn't mention in the general forum topic; this update kinda threw a wrench into my merit plans for now. >_>

I was about to take out my 1 point in Heavenly Strike so I could proceed to merit Geocrush (already have Wind Blade 5/5). However, now I gotta wait and see if the favors the avatar hands out affects the avatar themselves as well. I doubt it will, but if it does...then Heavenly Strike just became our strongest merit BP.

Sitting on 8 merit points right now, gonna get to 10 points before the update and continue to sit on them.
#113 Nov 03 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The biggest fear I have about this 'adjustment' is not really the suppressed power in lieu of an avatar's favor, but the restriction imposed on summoner. What I mean is, it can potentially be taking away a SMN's freedom.

In dynamis for example, I would love to use Ramuh on a non-statue mob, Chaotic Striking them. Or use Titan on some random pulled statue that mages are getting ready to nuke. (Stun on either pact!). But I get this feeling that I will be put in a party and told that "you need to have this avatar out at all times for this one specific buff, nothing else." In which case I would probably attempt to do a rage pact or so anyway.

But what would be the point of it if you could not ever pick or choose your own pacts? Part of the beautiful thing I consider part of being a SMN is the ability to pick and choose pacts, even if it meant summoning different avatars in the process.

Then again, I (unfortunately) have a BLM, so I do not get to be SMN anyway. So I suppose being able to participate as SMN restricted to one single avatar for that one single buff is better than nothing. Either way, I would enjoy SMN nevertheless over constantly being a BLM.
#114 Nov 06 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Gerkin wrote:
Mellowy wrote:
Only thing making SMN better than WAR at healing is the amount of MP.

And AOE hastega
And AOE Stoneskin
And hMp gear
And Clear Mind 5
And Elemental Siphon

And YinYang Robe
And Auto Refresh
And...


I think many of those would actually count as "amount of MP"
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#115 Nov 06 2009 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
They likely could have greatly increased SMN party invites just by doubling the duration of Hastega to 3:00 the same as standard haste.


If you have your smn magic capped and a decent amount of smn magic, you can get 3 min haste.
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#116 Nov 09 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Saw in the update on BG we got an item that gives fenrir an acc bonus and shiva m.acc bonus. Anyone find anything else out there?
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#117 Nov 09 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I just found these at killingifrit.com :

Aega's Doublet
[Body] DEF:21 Pet: Accuracy+3
"Subtle Blow"+3
CanEquip, Rare
Lv 32 MNK, WHM, RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, RNG, DRG, SMN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

Morana Pigaches
[Feet] DEF:10 INT+1
Shiva: Enhances magic accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 72 SMN

Fenrir's Crown
[Head] DEF:10 MP+12
Fenrir: Enhances accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 70 SMN

Spurrer Beret
DEF:17 Accuracy+3 Haste+3%
Pet: Haste+5%
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 75 MNK, WHM, RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, DRG, SMN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

Fidelity Mantle
[Back] Pet: "Store TP"+3
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 30 All

Also, there is no mentioning of any penalty for using favor´s in the update notes, right? I hope its not wishfull thingking on my side.....

Edited, Nov 9th 2009 2:22pm by Mosel
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#118 Nov 09 2009 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, didn't even see the pet haste and store TP one. Thank you for posting that. You know the body for acc on the pet is fine, can it be put into FoV for a small MP boost maybe?
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#119 Nov 09 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
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Completely missed the Shiva one. That one is a must for my maxed out 75 BP.

The cape might be worth it too, since there are so few useful capes. (The ix.drg cape for skill or an augmented cape for some small Macc usually)

I like how SE remembered the low level SMNs for once and added a little accuracy to pets. Too bad they couldn't do more for them.

Quote:
Also, there is no mentioning of any penalty for using favor´s in the update notes, right? I hope its not wishfull thingking on my side.....


Still are in all but the English notes.
#120 Nov 09 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Typical for me /sigh, i´m german but read english update notes only! -.-

*edited for more (typical) things!:)



Edited, Nov 9th 2009 3:17pm by Mosel
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#121 Nov 09 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Mosel wrote:
Morana Pigaches
[Feet] DEF:10 INT+1
Shiva: Enhances magic accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 72 SMN

I wonder if I should change my merits based on this. I probably won't, but if this is a large bonus I'm going to feel weird not receiving it.

Quote:
Spurrer Beret
DEF:17 Accuracy+3 Haste+3%
Pet: Haste+5%
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 75 MNK, WHM, RDM, THF, PLD, BST, BRD, DRG, SMN, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC

This makes me feel even less like making the Selenian Cap for SMN now. And it has nice melee stats on it even!

I'm sure that "Channels the avatar's power towards a beneficial status effect" was meant to mean that the power is actually taken and turned into the buff. It was just a vague way of saying it.

Avatars are just around the corner.
#122 Nov 09 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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If it has to be a negative effect I think we will see more of a HP / DEF down because, if we take solo play now for smn with carby but could add in Diabolos free, with Phalanx on him melee'ing along side of him and have him survive as long as a normal avatar can now, as short as that may be, would be rather deadly. But if they would die much quicker, but keep their rage/ward as they are now, wouldn't hurt the party. But that's me.

I too was thinking of making my cap from the melee stats it has now to a SMN pet one, but after this update it lets me re-arrange the helm to a much needed job while I'll be collecting these SMN items.
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#123 Nov 09 2009 at 2:24 PM Rating: Default
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If I had made my hat into a pet only hat, I would have changed it now. But since it is a melee+pet hat, I feel like I'd lose on changing it to this new hat. 14 or whatever accuracy I get is very much needed for a melee build. 3 accuracy and 3 haste would have been awesome if my SMN had great accuracy to begin with.
#124 Nov 09 2009 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Gerkin wrote:
Mellowy wrote:
Only thing making SMN better than WAR at healing is the amount of MP.

And AOE hastega
And AOE Stoneskin
And hMp gear
And Clear Mind 5
And Elemental Siphon

And YinYang Robe
And Auto Refresh
And...


I think many of those would actually count as "amount of MP"


"Amount" of Mp
is not the same as
The ability to "Restore" Mp.

Give a War 1,000 MP and they still won't be able to heal the party for any duration of time that would matter in this game.
#125 Nov 12 2009 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Morana Pigaches
[Feet] DEF:10 INT+1
Shiva: Enhances magic accuracy
CanEquip, NoSale, Ex, Rare
Lv 72 SMN


Is this a joke or confirmed btw? It is still not on the wiki, and nobody seem to have talked about where it comes from. (Then again Fenrir's crown is on the wiki and people still don't know where it comes from)
#126 Nov 12 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Elemental Siphon +20 is in fact only 20mp base* not 20%.

Base* refers to the fact, that the +20 is applied before % bonuses.
Meaning that on matching day the total gain is actually 22mp.
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#127 Nov 16 2009 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Just as an aside, Carby's Favor is nice for offsetting Sublimation if you're charging before an event or traveling.
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