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The update is hereFollow

#1 Oct 21 2009 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
32 posts
and it is win

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11eu/detail/4978/detail.html



Summoner
A new ability will be added for summoners, and with it, a brand new way for these masters of forbidden magic to lend their powers to party battles.

Avatar's Favor (Lv.55 Recast Time: 5 minutes Duration: 2 hours)
Channels the avatar's power towards a beneficial status effect for party members within range. Reduces perpetuation cost while active.


Carbuncle's favor = Regen
Ifrit's favor = improved "Double Attack" rate
Shiva's Favor = enhanced magic attack
Garuda's favor = enhanced evasion
Titan's favor = enhanced defense
Ramuh's favor = improved critical hit rate
Leviathan's favor = enhanced magic accuracy
Fenrir's favor = enhanced magic evasion
Diabolos' favor = Refresh

By summoning an avatar while this ability is active, a corresponding beneficial effect from above table will be granted to all party members within range of the avatar. The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll.
While multiple favors of the same variety will not be stackable, a single party can benefit from as many types as there are summoners. Furthermore, enhancements received through this ability can be used in conjunction with those received via magic spells, songs, the Phantom Roll ability, and so forth.



Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:00am by theIronQuitter
#2 Oct 21 2009 at 4:58 AM Rating: Decent
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hmmmm i wonder if these effects will affect the avatars themselves..
double attack etc..
or Shiva using her own magic attk+ for heavenly strike

and would a diabolos with lowered perp cost and its own refresh make it, free?
(-perp gear allowing)

hmm HMMM i say!

oh lord and i just realised the effect of this in campaign hahahahaa
i'll be refreshing about 40 people at once.. or giving them all double attack >.<



Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:04am by Rostofff
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#3 Oct 21 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I'm just hoping they make it so the effects hit us lol
#4 Oct 21 2009 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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lol ya!
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75 SUMMONER....
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45 RANGER
37 WHITEMAGE
37 NINJA
37 SAMURAI
37 Dragoon
37 Thf
37 Warrior
O.o
SPQR
[IFRIT]
#5 Oct 21 2009 at 5:07 AM Rating: Decent
32 posts
i can't wait to see what the -perp cost is like and it's great there's no downside to using it like the ninja abilities last update


Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:08am by theIronQuitter
#6 Oct 21 2009 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Rostofff wrote:
hmmmm i wonder if these effects will affect the avatars themselves..
double attack etc..
or Shiva using her own magic attk+ for heavenly strike

and would a diabolos with lowered perp cost and its own refresh make it, free?
(-perp gear allowing)

hmm HMMM i say!

oh lord and i just realised the effect of this in campaign hahahahaa
i'll be refreshing about 40 people at once.. or giving them all double attack >.<



Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:04am by Rostofff


I had the exact same questions about Shiva/Leviathan and Diabolos. Additionally, it could have rather strange ramifications for merit parties.
#7 Oct 21 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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Rostofff wrote:

and would a diabolos with lowered perp cost and its own refresh make it, free?
(-perp gear allowing)
Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:04am by Rostofff



Most likely. At it's maximum potency, Diabolo's Refresh should be 3mp/tick. Outside of weather/day/location specific gear, the best you can do is get him down to 1mp/tick (unless you have Nirvana. This doesn't account for the reduced perp cost that the new ability gives. If the cost reduction is high enough, we may be able to have Refresh while he is out if we add on a Refresh body piece.

I REALLY hope these favors affect the avatars as well. It would finally give them the individualization I've wanted and really help out Shiva, Ramuh and Ifrit. It would also make Garuda an even better choice for soloing.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't a COR roll that enhances physical defense is there? I wonder how potent that will be.

I'm quite excited!


**Edit**
I just took a look at the Japanese POL site. Their description makes it sound as if the avatars will be weakened while this ability is up. I have to admit that I'm not surprised. We will have to wait and see if this is true and if so, how much are they weakened. It might force us to choose between support and DD and I can't think of too many situations where the former wouldn't be chosen.

Edited, Oct 21st 2009 8:02am by Sasaraixx
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#8 Oct 21 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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I hope they go to the avatar too. It would really make the avatar themselves "different", it all depends on how far these avatars perpet gets reduced, if it gets to the point where we can actually replace gear that has -perpet to gear that is useful to us.

I mean, Ifrit, 12% double attack..is nice, but you know, on something like Shiva, 10 MAB + fay weapon + expansion body alone, is a great boost to her merit pacts. I don't even see a magic accuracy boost for wiki, but I would be happy to have that in there for when we need to land some useful things like gravity, sleeps etc..

You know, Diabolos having him -perpet and - more perpet b/c of his 3 mp a tick refresh is most likely good enough to keep him out.

It now all depends on how far the perpet is reduced by, if it's by half? 1/3? as long as it lets us keep avatars out this update will be a big boost for us.

Either way, fun and great update, I cannot wait until it comes out so we can use it. I hope our new avatars, if we get them, have some nice favors to them as well. Store TP? something great and fun. Either way, as long as you have a great reduced perpet cost and we're nt suffering from the perpet, we're good.
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#9 Oct 21 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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It always annoys me when SE adds an ability with a short recast, a long duration, and a benefit that you'd be crazy not to full-time - because usually that sort of thing would be better-served as a job trait, not an ability you have to activate. The very fact that it isn't a trait suggests to me that "Avatar's Favor" will be susceptible to Dispel. I'm only speculating of course, but SE never adds a tremendous positive without there being a negative to keep it in balance.

Aside from that though, I'm excited about this update and can't wait to try out the ability. It's about **** time we were given a purpose in exp parties as an actual Summoner!

Edited, Oct 21st 2009 10:39am by Squintik
#10 Oct 21 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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I must admit this is rather neat, and it was a pretty well thought out way to get summoners more requested. I'm interested to see what exactly Fenrir's "Magic Evasion" will do personally.

I wonder if summoners are gunna get that new avatar this update though, and if it will also have a corresponding favor...
#11 Oct 21 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rostofff wrote:
oh lord and i just realised the effect of this in campaign hahahahaa
i'll be refreshing about 40 people at once.. or giving them all double attack >.<


If the ability works like Corsair rolls, this probably won't work in Campaign. It'll affect anyone you're directly partied with, but not everyone with allied tags.
#12 Oct 21 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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the update states that party members in range will receive these beneficial effects. i hope the range doesn't suck.
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#13 Oct 21 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll.


Will be interesting to see how long it takes for a favor to fully charge, if it remains activate if the summon is released and if so for how long. A free fighter's or rogue's roll could definitely give incentives for summoners to be included in melee heavy parties.

Shiva, Leviathan, and Diabolos look like they have pretty solid buffs, my only concern is if you need to be in proximity to the avatar then the avatars are the only ones going to be receiving the buff (since mages are generally not nearby).

I'm also very confused why this is a JA instead of a JT too... it doesn't really count as a stance if it should be and can be active without any penalties. Unless they're planning on adding some sort of JA to increase perp cost for a boost, this seems much, much more useful as a job trait so it can't be dispelled.
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#14 Oct 21 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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yay going to make diablos near mandatory to get, now i gotta stop slacking and get a group that can beat him lol.
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#15 Oct 21 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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Requim wrote:

I'm also very confused why this is a JA instead of a JT too... it doesn't really count as a stance if it should be and can be active without any penalties. Unless they're planning on adding some sort of JA to increase perp cost for a boost, this seems much, much more useful as a job trait so it can't be dispelled.


There are reports that other language websites (German, JP, etc) state the avatars will somehow be weakened while its active. Maybe this is why its a JA and not a JT, in case the negative effect is too harsh for some cases?
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#16 Oct 21 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Oct 21st 2009 4:42pm by Jinte
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#17 Oct 21 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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You know I think the recast timer on there is so you don't spam the favors. Think of it like this, you summon Titan for your PLD for say ultima, strait tanking and then you see the countdown begin. PLD switches gears, and you pull out new avatar Fenrir for his Magic Evasion favor, which to me if it acts like Death Blossom but on the flip side it will help with a lot with resists, then once it's over go back to Titan.

This way we're not restricted to summon, favor, release method because people will take a boost but only what they need, even if the magic evasion boost is small at first, it's something.

That's why I think there's a 5 min recast, and for 2hrs? well that's really not an issue, I mean SCH's arts are the same duration, and you will rarely notice it unless you're doing something that turns to be a lengthy process.

Still, if that's the drawback I say we won here. All I want to know is how much perpet is reduced, it would be nice for early summoners to use this ability and with it not have such large perpet restrictions so that you have to reach 75 gear just to be able to maintain the avatar.
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#18 Oct 21 2009 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not gonna jump to conclusions, but i think there's a part 3 they're planning to keep secret until later. The way this is set up right now just doesn't make any sense. I was expecting to see an opposite ability for increased perpetuation for a boost in dmg, attack speed, magic acc, magic attack, evasion, defense, magic resistance, etc.
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#19 Oct 21 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I can see summoners fitting nicely into a BLM party with this though.
Diabolos out for refresh.. AND dream shroud, and nether blast, depending on enemy.
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#20 Oct 21 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Admiral Jinte wrote:
Quote:
The effect's potency will gradually increase until the avatar is released, and at its peak, can be expected to reach levels equal to those granted by the corsair's lucky number roll.


Carbuncle's favor = Regen (11 Dancer's Roll: 14 hp/tick / 17 hp/tick (w/o dnc / w/ dnc))
Ifrit's favor = improved "Double Attack" rate (11 Fighter's Roll: 18%/24% (w/o war / w/ war))
Shiva's Favor = enhanced magic attack (11 Wizard's Roll: +12/+16 (w/o blm / w/ blm))
Garuda's favor = enhanced evasion (11 Ninja Roll: +50/+65 (w/o nin / w/ nin))
Titan's favor = enhanced defense (Best Guess, 11 Chaos Roll, applied to defense: +31%/+41% (w/o def job/ w/ def job))
Ramuh's favor = improved critical hit rate (11 Rogue's Roll: 18%/24% (w/o thf / w/ thf))
Leviathan's favor = enhanced magic accuracy (11 Warlock's Roll: No Numbers Available that I know of)
Fenrir's favor = enhanced magic evasion (Best Guess, 11 Warlock's Roll applied to Magic evasion: See above comment about Warlock's Roll)
Diabolos' favor = Refresh (11 Evoker's Roll: 4 mp/tick / 5 mp/tick (w/o smn / w/ smn))


XI is not the lucky number for COR. It gives the most powerful buff, but it is not the lucky number. Each roll has its own lucky number. Chaos Roll, for example, has IV as its lucky number. So all of the buffs you stated are more powerful than what I think you should be expecting.
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#21 Oct 21 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sasaraixx wrote:
I just took a look at the Japanese POL site. Their description makes it sound as if the avatars will be weakened while this ability is up.


I was wondering if that would be the case. If it is, and depending on how much avatars are weakened by, this may negate the party benefits. Parties love to have Corsairs and Bards for their rolls and songs, but those jobs usually fulfill other important roles in addition to buffing - namely pulling, sleeping links, and in the case of Corsair, some DD. Summoners aren't particularly effective at pulling (not in merit parties, anyway), and can't sleep links too well - so our only other purpose in a party would be DD and healing. If our avatars are weakened while "Avatar's Favor" is up, our DD capabilities will take a hit. And if we're keeping our avatars out to maintain the party effect, even with the perp reduction, we won't have the mp pool to effectively heal party members. So that means we probably still won't be as desirable in party situations, not when there are bards and corsairs available.

I'm guessing that if we are invited to parties, it'll still be as main healer. The only difference is that now, we'll be using "Avatar's Favor" + Carbuncle for party regen in addition to casting healing spells. Since Carby is free by 55 anyway and we can keep him out, the party regen bonus will have a chance to reach maximum effect.
#22 Oct 21 2009 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
It's a stance move like velocity shot/hasso/light arts, so I'm sure it has a negative effect like weakenening the avatar somehow. Let's just PRAY it isn't increased Blood Pact timers,although that would be balanced...

Edited, Oct 21st 2009 7:07am by TheHolyDragoonSeraphus
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#23 Oct 21 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
This update makes me very happy. I'm just a little sad that they didn't call it Junction, though.

You're an old Alla Smn poster if you get that.
#24 Oct 21 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Default
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composure for rdm has same duration and recast just hope this doesnt wear off when u zone hate that when campaign bouncing
#25 Oct 21 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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I would like to preface all of my future ramblings with the fact that I hate stances.

Admiral Jinte wrote:
As for perp cost, well, that's your deal, I wouldn't even know where to start. Have fun theory crafting until the update Smiley: lol

There's not much to theorycraft. Good SMNs can get Carby free, Fenrir and Garuda 2 MP perp, and the others 4 MP without relying on outside Refresh, Weather, or Day. Makes me doubt that the reduction will be more than a handful of MP, 2-4 probably. 4 would be great, because it makes everything free and you could potentially activate Yinyang Robe on more than just Carby. The avatars will undoubtedly get weakened under it, but it means is we're not spending more MP than the initial summon cost to give people Favors, so it's not taking away resources to do our active jobs.

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#26 Oct 21 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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Squintik wrote:


I was wondering if that would be the case. If it is, and depending on how much avatars are weakened by, this may negate the party benefits. Parties love to have Corsairs and Bards for their rolls and songs, but those jobs usually fulfill other important roles in addition to buffing - namely pulling, sleeping links, and in the case of Corsair, some DD. Summoners aren't particularly effective at pulling (not in merit parties, anyway), and can't sleep links too well - so our only other purpose in a party would be DD and healing. If our avatars are weakened while "Avatar's Favor" is up, our DD capabilities will take a hit. And if we're keeping our avatars out to maintain the party effect, even with the perp reduction, we won't have the mp pool to effectively heal party members. So that means we probably still won't be as desirable in party situations, not when there are bards and corsairs available.

I'm guessing that if we are invited to parties, it'll still be as main healer. The only difference is that now, we'll be using "Avatar's Favor" + Carbuncle for party regen in addition to casting healing spells. Since Carby is free by 55 anyway and we can keep him out, the party regen bonus will have a chance to reach maximum effect.


The exact text is, 召喚獣の力を抑える代わりに

I can't think of any other way to translate it other than "In exchange for supressing the avatars power."

We will have to wait and see 1) how large/what kind of a penalty the avatars receive and 2) how long it takes to max out the favors. It could be a reduction in Rage power or it may increase the Blood Pact timer or prevent use of Blood Pacts entirely!

The longer it takes to reach the max boost, the more discouraged you will be from releasing avatars. You also have to have the ability active when you summon the avatar so there's no getting in a BP and then activating the favor.

I don't forsee MP management being a problem though. You can already get the costs down to 2 or 4 depending on the avatar. If we're talking endgame events, you will have at least 1 form of refresh. Add that with the reduction in perp cost and I think we're almost guaranteed to have free avatars with some refresh left over.

Quote:

The very fact that it isn't a trait suggests to me that "Avatar's Favor" will be susceptible to Dispel.


I don't see how that would be possible. The description makes it sound as though you must be within the avatar's range in order to receive the bonus. So if you had Garuda meleeing the mob and you are as well, then you get the evasion bonus. Run to the back line and you loose it. Run back in again and you get it back. I'm not sure how you could dispel the effect off of a player as the real effect rests on the avatar. Now, if it is dispelable off of the avatars themselves then that would be a HUGE problem. However, the ability is on the Summoner herself, so I don't see how that would work. I wouldn't put it past SE though . . .

I'm just going to remain midly optimistic until the update when I can test it out for myself.
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