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Summoner as Sub?Follow

#1 Jul 16 2009 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I keep hearing conflicting stories. If Summoner is sub, can you still summon?
#2 Jul 17 2009 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, but most of the bloodpacts would be worthless, and all of the avatars would be incredibly weak. The only ones you could use to any effect would be Aerial Armor and Healing Ruby.

99.9% of the time there is a better subjob than Summoner anyway. What job are you intending to use /smn for, and for what purpose?
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#3 Jul 17 2009 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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FartaruOnSeraph wrote:
Yes, but most of the bloodpacts would be worthless, and all of the avatars would be incredibly weak. The only ones you could use to any effect would be Aerial Armor and Healing Ruby.

99.9% of the time there is a better subjob than Summoner anyway. What job are you intending to use /smn for, and for what purpose?


99.9% is a large %... sometimes WHMs sub /SMN for carby pulls (limbus is only place i can think of this happening offhand, but it's late and i was drunk). i assume OP asking out of curiosity, as s/he obviously either a) hasn't unlocked SMN or b) hasn't done the subjob quest yet.

p.s. OP, whoever told you /SMN can't summon is probably someone you should never listen to ever.
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#4 Jul 17 2009 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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They might as well not be able to, since the pets won't hit anything.
#5 Jul 17 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I really wanted to sub Summoner for Paladin. I thought having summons help me solo would be really fun. I do have Paladin unlocked and up to 20 atm, and subbing Warrior is good for parties but its not all that helpful for soloing. Of course I've read that Red Mage is good for that, but Summoner seemed like a much more fun idea.
#6 Jul 17 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Jushiwolf wrote:
I really wanted to sub Summoner for Paladin. I thought having summons help me solo would be really fun. I do have Paladin unlocked and up to 20 atm, and subbing Warrior is good for parties but its not all that helpful for soloing. Of course I've read that Red Mage is good for that, but Summoner seemed like a much more fun idea.


afraid /SMN soloing will not work. /DNC is a great soloing sub for PLD though.
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#7 Jul 17 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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afraid /SMN soloing will not work. /DNC is a great soloing sub for PLD though.


I think in my late 30s/early 40s I went to Lufaise Meadows, pulled T Orc, put on drain samba and went to make a sandwich, occasionally checking to see if DS was still up or not.

PLD/DNC is that good at those levels.
#8 Jul 17 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Default
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I'm well aware of the traditional combinations for Paladin. I just wanted something different and fun. Since thats not possible, I'll just sub RDM.
#9 Jul 17 2009 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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Jushiwolf wrote:
I'm well aware of the traditional combinations for Paladin. I just wanted something different and fun. Since thats not possible, I'll just sub RDM.


if stuff that works is "not fun", why play the game in the first place?
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#10 Jul 18 2009 at 4:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Only reliable pet sub job you can have is beastmaster. That is if your beastmaster job is leveled to the same level as your main job.

Also, keep in mind that you will only be able to use charmed pets and they do uncharm so you can't go afk.

Also, avatars use up mp. So, even if you were able to sub summoner and use it to solo, you'd find yourself without a pet and mp fast.
#11 Jul 18 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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I'm well aware of the traditional combinations for Paladin. I just wanted something different and fun. Since thats not possible, I'll just sub RDM.


All of the possible combinations for every job and every sub have been used/tested.

There is nothing different and fun left.

Just the traditional.
#12 Jul 18 2009 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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There are many fun combos, the problem lies in that nobody has ever valued fun higher than efficiency.

MNK/RDM gets interesting enspell effects, but people will just say "Lol, did you read the brady's guide or something? That combo is useless!" because you are better off being MNK/WAR.
#13 Jul 18 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Mellowy wrote:
There are many fun combos, the problem lies in that nobody has ever valued fun higher than efficiency.

MNK/RDM gets interesting enspell effects, but people will just say "Lol, did you read the brady's guide or something? That combo is useless!" because you are better off being MNK/WAR.


and because of MP and skill and all that, but god forbid mellowy posts something that isn't misleading or wrong.

it's not the case at all that people avoid unconventional subs because they're "fun but not efficient". it's that most "fun" subs (say, anything/SMN so you can have a pet help you) don't work, and that's not fun.

as for valuing efficiency over fun for group activities, that's also not what's going on... it's valuing helping others over being selfish.
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#14 Jul 18 2009 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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Though Mostly /Smn is used for MP pool and pulling(and fun), I find it useful for self Skill Chaining when trying to break a weapon.
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#15 Jul 19 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Mellowy wrote:
There are many fun combos, the problem lies in that nobody has ever valued fun higher than efficiency.

MNK/RDM gets interesting enspell effects, but people will just say "Lol, did you read the brady's guide or something? That combo is useless!" because you are better off being MNK/WAR.

Your inefficient main/sub combo is not fun for me.
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#16 Jul 20 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Default
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i thought for a time PLD/DNC could replace /WAR in the thought that you still would have provoke from steps...

But you lack defender.

Other than that there really is no difference other than the fact that i think that dnc's animated flourish generates less enmity.

Your subs as PLD are pretty much DNC WAR NIN RDM and BLU.

DNC for samba's, curing waltzes, and flourishes
WAR for Defender and provoke
NIN for utsusemi and dual wield
RDM for Phalanx and Stoneskin
BLU for Cocoon and Stoneskin, and headbutt
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#17 Jul 20 2009 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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back in the day whm/smn was super popular due to whm's rotating and using gaurda's aoe blink in endgame tank parties. However now days with most tanks bieng pld/nin and most mages having some form of blink as is, its not as common.

I used whm/smn in xp sessions 50-70 for auto refresh. Its currently 70, if i ever finish it however il be going whm/sch.

For other jobs, /smn is not to good. Most jobs have a sub that is better then /smn in all aspects.
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#18 Jul 20 2009 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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jlejeune wrote:
Mellowy wrote:
There are many fun combos, the problem lies in that nobody has ever valued fun higher than efficiency.

MNK/RDM gets interesting enspell effects, but people will just say "Lol, did you read the brady's guide or something? That combo is useless!" because you are better off being MNK/WAR.

Your inefficient main/sub combo is not fun for me.


Considering I'm a SMN, not even my efficient main/sub combo is fun for you if you are making an exp party.
#19 Jul 22 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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Summoner as a sub job adds more INT than a blm sub and more MND than a whm sub. The stat boost are often over looked. Of course it also adds a larger mp pool than any other job as well as refresh.

I consider smn an excellent sub for mage jobs like BLM. Of course u lose the cure and other whm spells but if you are in an end game alliance with a healer, summoner as a sub job should be considered.
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#20 Jul 22 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Gangazjin wrote:
Summoner as a sub job adds more INT than a blm sub and more MND than a whm sub. The stat boost are often over looked. Of course it also adds a larger mp pool than any other job as well as refresh.

I consider smn an excellent sub for mage jobs like BLM. Of course u lose the cure and other whm spells but if you are in an end game alliance with a healer, summoner as a sub job should be considered.


If you were going to do that, you're better off with /SCH. /SMN is a nearly useless subjob. It's not even good for WHM anymore, /SCH beats that by a longshot, too.

/SMN wasn't very good at all before, it's even less now with /SCH.
#21 Jul 22 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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I thought this thread was about SMN/SMN, and dual wielding carbuncles.
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#22 Jul 22 2009 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Tarub wrote:
I thought this thread was about SMN/SMN, and dual wielding carbuncles.


You know what? That's EXACTLY what the jobs needs. If only SE had thought of this!

Also, Carbuncle Cannon.
#23 Jul 22 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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You know what? That's EXACTLY what the jobs needs. If only SE had thought of this!

Also, Carbuncle Cannon.


I can see it now, instead of skittering gleefully twoards a target, it launchs from a shoulder mounted cannon at break neck speeds. Then, when subbing Summoner as Summoner, carbuncle himself pulls out an identical, yet tinier shoulder cannon, and launches another, smaller carbuncle. The small one latches onto face as the big on lands and goes right for the ankles. Shrieks of terror and hilarious small meteors soon follow.
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