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75 Summoner, now what?Follow

#1 Jul 01 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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No I did not summoner burn.

I have a few ideas of what I'd like to do with my first 75 (summoner) and have been reading a few guides.

After reading through the "Spirit guide by Spira" on the FFXI wiki it made me very interested in the possibilities of spirits. I have come to these conclusions without extensive testing:

Thunder Spirit and Fire Spirit are the only spirits worth using as pure DD.

Each has 3 spells it will cast at 75:

Thunder Spirit: Burst, Shock, Thunder IV

Fire Spirit: Flare, Burn, Fire IV

From what I've seen my spirits pretty much always cast the DoT first. Then they proceed into casting ancient magic. Then after that they cast the DoT again.

Has anyone followed his guide and tested spirits true powers with the 17 sec cast time/ higher perp vs 25 second cast time / lower perp setups?

Where can I read a guide about merits for summoner?

Thanks!

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#2 Jul 01 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Now what? Well I'll tell you.

That's it. Your done. Congratulations! Next job! :) lol
#3 Jul 01 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
If you want to play with spirits, i have found that thunder spirit casts ancient magic more than any other spirit. This may not be true for you, but it is for me. Here is something you can test out.

go smn/blm, and head to some weak mobs. Target one with thunder spirit out. cast shock on it and watch the fun.
It is known, that spirits won't cast a DOT, if the mob has it on allready. It is also known, that the spell timer is reduced when you get aggro. casting magic on a mob works the same way. It comes after you, and your spirit attacks, with a nice timer reduction. It will most likely cast burst on the first shot. Have fun watching lil bunnies go boom.
#4 Jul 01 2009 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
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hmm..

If you get agroo from a mob, Or you attack it / cast on it, your spirit Will Cast a spell on it to take agroo from you, My spirits always casted AM spells at first,then start hitting it and quickly casting DOT spells then backto thunder,water etc. Sometimes i keep my light spirit out at party's So it can help buff & Cure.

Making your spirit Attack resets its spell timer, making them cast lil later in the fight.

i been 75 summoner for a long time,and have full merits. If your into the whole spirits fun, getting your spirit merits can be really useful,and what i found out can be a life saver!

getting 75 summoner doesent mean your finished with it, same to every job. Getting your merits full, getting the good pieces of armour, getting afv2.Do that and yourealy have finished summoner like me:),summoners are an amazing job. DD, Healing, Buffing, Support Attack From Avatar.

Edited, Jul 1st 2009 9:20pm by Strifepierce
#5 Jul 02 2009 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Spirit Summoner should merit the following:

8 summoning magic skill
5 spirit perpetuation down

You won't really get any good results without it. In my opinion they end up situationally useful WITH the merits, and even less useful without.


The choice between casting time and perpetuation is also up to the user. I don't like resting so I attempt to balance out perpetuation against siphon return. 300 MP return would cover 3 MP per tick.
#6 Jul 02 2009 at 4:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd consider Mellowy to be one of the bigger authorities for Spirits and Spirit-related questions.

As for the "what now?", the answer is start meriting.

You're only halfway there when you get to 75.
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#7 Jul 02 2009 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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xariol wrote:
Now what? Well I'll tell you.

That's it. Your done. Congratulations! Next job! :) lol

This kind of attitude is what's wrong with FFXI these days. It's why people have 10 jobs levelled and mope whenever you ask them to bring a specific one instead of whatever they feel like. It's why people have their good gear spread across 6 different jobs with no single job having amazing gear, and need 3 drops from every single event in the game. If people instead focused more on job completion and not "well that's one more 75, time to start the next" then there would magically be more loot for everyone.
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#8 Jul 02 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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your 75 now. You need to get merits... No questions asked. Merit the Group 1 and 2 merits then you can say you're done.

Also i was told that the higher your smn skill the more likely your spirits will use an Ancient magic spell.

Anyway, fight the good fight. Btw, don't merit merit smn skill unless you know for sure that smn will be your main job... forever.... forever... forever...
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#9 Jul 02 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
This kind of attitude is what's wrong with FFXI these days. It's why people have 10 jobs levelled and mope whenever you ask them to bring a specific one instead of whatever they feel like. It's why people have their good gear spread across 6 different jobs with no single job having amazing gear, and need 3 drops from every single event in the game. If people instead focused more on job completion and not "well that's one more 75, time to start the next" then there would magically be more loot for everyone.


I think xariol's suggestion was only half-serious, but your little rant is unfair and stupid.

People like to try out and play different jobs.

One day, you might want to play healer, the next a melee... the next day you might want to nuke or sing songs.

Part of makes FFXI so special in comparison to other MMORPGs is the job change system and being able to level up and play so many different jobs; not limiting yourself to just one profession as you've suggested.

In an end-game Linkshell it's usually going to come down to points anyway.
If a member wants gear for multiple jobs them they need to work to get the points for each specific item just like everyone else.

I don't see how players having less jobs = MOAR DROPS FOR EVERYONE.
Just seems like a Linkshell can be less effective because a player can't hop into different roles as necessary.

but continue being butthurt

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 2:06pm by Poubelle
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#10 Jul 02 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
Pergatory wrote:
This kind of attitude is what's wrong with FFXI these days. It's why people have 10 jobs levelled and mope whenever you ask them to bring a specific one instead of whatever they feel like. It's why people have their good gear spread across 6 different jobs with no single job having amazing gear, and need 3 drops from every single event in the game. If people instead focused more on job completion and not "well that's one more 75, time to start the next" then there would magically be more loot for everyone.


I think xariol's suggestion was only half-serious, but your little rant is unfair and stupid.

People like to try out and play different jobs.

One day, you might want to play healer, the next a melee... the next day you might want to nuke or sing songs.

Part of makes FFXI so special in comparison to other MMORPGs is the job change system and being able to level up and play so many different jobs; not limiting yourself to just one profession as you've suggested.

In an end-game Linkshell it's usually going to come down to points anyway.
If a member wants gear for multiple jobs them they need to work to get the points for each specific item just like everyone else.

I don't see how players having less jobs = MOAR DROPS FOR EVERYONE.
Just seems like a Linkshell can be less effective because a player can't hop into different roles as necessary.

but continue being butthurt


What you failed to pick up on was that Pergatory's underlining message was not to half-ass something.

No endgame linkshell worth it's mettle will take a player with 5 jobs if he is unmeritted and under-geared. My linkshell is nothing special, but we regularly turn down players because they never bothered to merit common sense things before leveling a second job.

If you can't be effective, it doesn't matter how many jobs you can switch to.

But, please, contine being the butthurt pot calling the butthurt kettle black.
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actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

MNK ~ SMN ~ SCH
#11 Jul 02 2009 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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So what's next after 75 summoner?

1. Merits trial: this is where you want to look at everything you can merit as summoner and decide what you can and can't merit because of other jobs. Based on the events you do, or want to do in game you should probably hang out with fully merited summoners for a while and ask them their merits, watch them play and note the difference in your performance vs theirs based on merits. You may have to place and drop a few merits trying them out. I don't know any serious summoner that didn't end up changing something about their merits after they were done.


2. Merits final: Once you get an idea what you want you just have to merit merit merit, until your brains fall out. Once you're done meriting you can really bring your playstyle into its own.


3. Master the job: At this point you should try to bring summoner to as many events as you can where its viable to do so. The key to mastering any job is actually using it. This is where you can test if your merits are actually benefiting what you're doing or if you need to change them up a bit. Playing around one or two other summoners helps as you can once again compare yourself to them. This step 1-3 is a cycle for a main summoner.

Gear

As far as gear you should be looking to get anything that enhances the avatars, with mp gear being a secondary stat to look for. You should put together mainly a perpetuation gear set and an hmp gear set to prevent and minimize resting time. Level Sch sub it's a very useful sub when you're not expected to do any erase or anything like that. Drain and aspir help out a lot and with some magic acc gear and dark arts they are very reliable. I won't completely go into gear, but remember to spam crimson, amber, and ivory keys in ACP for pet bonus augmented items which can't be found anywhere else in the game. There is a summoner gear guide in the sticky if I remember correctly.




Spirits

As for spirits the game has changed a lot since I did my initial tests and experimenting 4 years ago. Its in a really old thread on KI summoner forum called "Project Spirits". I'm wanted to do a series of updated trials with all the new pet magic acc and magic attk gear that has been added into the game. Spirits generally have a casting cycle and my theory for a long time has been that the cycle is based on the resistance of the monster and the summoning skill of the player. I often notice a spirit casting something like WaterIV > Flood > WaterIV > Drown or Posion 2. This may be due to the recasts of the damage spells preventing them from chain casting their tier IV spell back to back. they are good for gaining mp back while doing damage if you have the correct perpetuation gear and merits, but without those two things i think they'd be unusable except for the light spirit which has been the easiest one to figure out.
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#12 Jul 02 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What you failed to pick up on was that Pergatory's underlining message was not to half-ass something.

No endgame linkshell worth it's mettle will take a player with 5 jobs if he is unmeritted and under-geared. My linkshell is nothing special, but we regularly turn down players because they never bothered to merit common sense things before leveling a second job.

If you can't be effective, it doesn't matter how many jobs you can switch to.

But, please, contine being the butthurt pot calling the butthurt kettle black.

Funny, but the OP never said anything about becoming involved in endgame and the fact of the matter is that many endgame linkshells appreciate having the flexibility to change to a more valuable job that may be needed, sometimes even more than having a fully merited job (depending on the current state of the shell and it's members of course).

It looks like the best answers have been given already. Either Merit or level a different job. Thanks to the job change system, you can do both.

Edit: Any endgame shell that expects you to not be somewhat undergeared when you apply are being unrealistic or elitist. Also, the OP is already looking for merit information.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 2:18pm by sixgauge
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#13 Jul 02 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think its elitist nor unrealistic to expect fully merited and well geared jobs from players who want to join. There are plenty of shells that will take you without asking about your gear or merits, but always keep in mind that a shell's quality becomes that of the members that it accepts. So anyone setting up an endgame shell where you take any and every person without examining their playskill, gear, or merits is setting the shell up to be either weak or mediocre.


I'm glad the shell i'm in now has very strict gear and merit requirements as well as wanting multiple jobs. Most players don't get into top notch endgame shells right off the bat anyway. You work your way up to them after gearing yourself through limbus, dynamis, and other stand-alone activities and lesser NM's. After you get all that stuff and your merits then you go for the big time shells.
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* **** please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#14 Jul 02 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle wrote:
Part of makes FFXI so special in comparison to other MMORPGs is the job change system and being able to level up and play so many different jobs; not limiting yourself to just one profession as you've suggested.

I never said limiting yourself to just one profession. Look at my sig, I have 3 jobs levelled. However, aside from the recent project (DRK), both WHM & SMN are world-class equipped and I assure you I excel at playing both. Not just from levelling them to 75, or even from dumping merits into them, but from playing the job through just about every endgame event there is and fine-tuning its performance to get it just right before moving on to the next job. That is what I'm suggesting. Not level 1 job and stick with it until you quit, although I'm sure that straw man helps boost your argument so more power to you.

Poubelle wrote:
I don't see how players having less jobs = MOAR DROPS FOR EVERYONE.

It's actually quite simple. If you have 18 players with 2 jobs each, that's 36 jobs needing endgame equipment. If you have 18 players with 5 jobs each, that's 90 jobs needing endgame equipment. Sure there will be some overlap where one equipment benefits multiple jobs, but there are even more pieces of equipment that are specialized for one job. In the former example, you'll see majority of the WHM drops going to people who *gasp* actually bring WHM to linkshell events frequently.

It's mathematically more efficient to have specialized jobs, because one player can only contribute to one event using one job at a time. Sure there is benefit to versatility too, hence levelling a couple jobs and not just one. However, to think that this doesn't come at a VERY large cost is extremely naive. Or selfish, as is the case for quite a few Maat's Cap holders on my server who think they should be able to lot every single item that hits the loot pool.

Again, since we have many folks on this forum who enjoy the art of selective reading, I will bold this: I'm not saying don't level more than one job, and I'm not saying versatility doesn't have its benefits. I'm just saying the costs are often overlooked these days by players who just want as many 75's as they can get without realizing the harm they are inflicting on those that they do endgame events with.
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#15 Jul 02 2009 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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...and I'm saying plenty of people enjoy playing many different jobs, and it shouldn't be a crime for them to do so?

And, I think that a player with many jobs at 75 and just "decent" gear for all of them is more useful to any LS than a pimped out WHM75/SMN75.
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#16 Jul 02 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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Here's my take on this, as I "used" to have a whored out support job that will no longer be mentioned, as it is retired my friends, retired. (Although many dont believe in the concept of a 'retired job', but that's a dead horse to most people anyway, and an argument for another time/thread/whatever)

This is how I Play, I list the jobs that I would like to play. The current jobs "I like playing" are right now, THF, MNK and SAM. I have others, but I would not like to play those at this time.

With that said, I will not lot gear for jobs that the aforementioned three can use in an endgame scenario. Seeing as how the convo shifted into endgame for some reason O_o, there's my comment on that, and this one too. -> Sure there's the scenario of: "well I want to gear the jobs I'm currently not playing so they can be playable." but again, an argument for another time.

In the job area, I have 6 jobs 75, but only play 3 of them often, sometimes i touch a 4th and 5th when "they're needed" (i.e. not REALLY needed, people just want the perks from said (support)job and could care less if the job is any fun to me in X event O_o). As such those jobs are not mentioned in any new shells/friends/whatnot that I have met over the past two years.

Quote:
Or selfish, as is the case for quite a few Maat's Cap holders on my server who think they should be able to lot every single item that hits the loot pool.


well for the purpose of upgrading said 75 jobs... but then again there's the aspect of the "lootwhore" that gets a few onlookers with bitter tastes in their mouths for seeing a good drop go to someone who "probably isnt gonna use/make the most out of the drop anyway" So that territory there is a 50/50 gamble and you can swing it either way.

Per whatever rules are in play, I myself will lot what I believe will benefit the jobs i use the most often, plain and simple, and what jobs you are aware about that I hold in my possession at 75 through MY mouth will be available to you and your group.

What it all boils down to is similar to why Boston Lager has so many types of beer...

It's because people like variety.

The only exception to that is, I would like to be the one that decides what I want to drink tonight.

Quote:
And, I think that a player with many jobs at 75 and just "decent" gear for all of them is more useful to any LS than a pimped out WHM75/SMN75.


THF is pimped out, SAM and MNK are "decent geared" although not many believe so. Finally someone understands where I'm coming from :)

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 10:12pm by KazumeSR

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 10:13pm by KazumeSR
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The last thing I consider myself in this game is a TH-whore, period. I'd rather solo 30,000xp than be invited to an XP because TH2 was cool to have around. I've spent far too much time doing my best to become adept at playing/gearing THF only to be pigeon-holed by a passive trait that's often used as a scapegoat when random luck screws other players out of what they think the game owes them. :/
#17 Jul 03 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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Spirits generally have a casting cycle and my theory for a long time has been that the cycle is based on the resistance of the monster and the summoning skill of the player.


Sadly it is just plain random.

For example I had orange HP and gotten shell IV over cure V. I've had 8 shocks in a row (when only about 3 of them were resisted). I've had an Earth spirit not cast a single slow, but a lot of rasp and stone IV in campaign.

Additional info about the shocks run is that I only got about 1 or 2 resists (50%) during like an hour of using it. So it probably doesn't matter if your nukes would be resisted or not.

Again, just plain random.
#18 Jul 03 2009 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen randomness, but not complete and absolute randomness like that. I hardy ever see them cast enfeebles more than once before doing three offensive spells. But that's the whole reason I wanted to do another series of field testing with them. It may be true that they are random, but they seem to be running in patterns for many people for some reason. A pattern of uselessness is still a pattern lol.
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This resulted in a backlash from the PLD. "He saved u lot from dying by using his 2hour!" *eyeroll* **** please. I'm a mother-@#%^ing-DRAGOON. -Kellinda (Live Journal)
#19 Jul 03 2009 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Yep I was mostly joking. I leveled smn to 75 a long time ago and it was my main job for about 5 years. This year I took blue mage to 75 too for a bit of a change.

I experimented with spirits for quite some time. My favorite is still light spirit. In an emergency it's the one I cast before I start running.

Sometimes when my alliance/party was in trouble and I was weakened and had very little MP I'd pop out light spirit and use my 2hr. Light spirit has this knack of firing off high lvl cure spells when people are in red. :)

I have a bunch of random merits that I can't recall for smn. I never meritted much on smn because my LS schedule made it so I mostly just kept enough of a buffer to stay 75 for the majority of the time. :) I did get most of smn afv2 early on though because I was one of 3 people in my LS that had smn levelled and one of them had other more desired jobs.

Fire spirit is my favorite one to get to cast ancient magic though!
Go out somewhere that the target won't kill you too fast to test this. Put the spirit out and wait until 100-200 mp is drained and then cast a spell on something so your spirit auto attacks it. In my experience the vast majority of the time an ancient magic spell gets cast.

To give you an idea of how often I messed around with spirits >.> On approximately 10 separate occasions (give or take) I managed to magic burst an ancient magic spell from a spirit. It was mostly by just watching people announce their TP in fights and a tonne of luck. :D lol


It does, sadly, mostly come down to points as to determine what gear you get. Also, depending on race, there's almost nothing in a large portion of the end game activities for smn. I'm looking at you sky and ground hnms!




oooh: a side note of elementals not recasting spells. light spirit still loves to cast regen on you even if you already put it on yourself.

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