When are you expected to have all summons?Follow

I've been playing just a couple months, but I have really wanted to level SMN.

I unlocked the job, but I let it sit for a bit because I kept being told that I should have some thing other than Carby before I level.

A few weeks ago, I got a pity invite to a Garuda fight since it was a group of friends with an open spot and no one else wanted to go. I was a level 52 COR at the time. I was killed, but they won the fight and I got Garuda as a result.

Since then, I have been unable to score any other avatars. The few times that I have seen friends going to do one, there was already a wait to get into the group. I now have a level 60 COR, but since I need to take a break and level something else for a bit, I was thinking about SMN again.

What is expected out of SMN, and when is it that they are expected to have all summons? Are Fenrir and Diabolos mandatory as well, because Fenrir could take a while, and I haven't gotten much done in CoP yet.

You can get all avatars (minus diabolos and fenrir) at lvl20smn from the solo fights. No reason why you technically shouldnt have them by then imo.

Fenrir and Diabolos, I think people are obviously more lenient on. Alot of first time 75s dont get diabolos til well after 75. Fenrir is slightly easier, it isnt hard getting all the whispers, you should have all those down uber early on your smn especially if you have a higher lvl'd job already. Winning the fenrir fight it would probably help if you had a 75 job or really good buddies that can assure you a win.

Either way, most likely if you pt on smn nobody would notice if you were missing avatars as they probably just want you to main heal and nobody would notice even more if you solo'd. But you should definitely have the lvl20 fight avatars for sure.





Edited, May 23rd 2009 10:18pm by Glddaisy

20 for the main 6, 54 for Fenrir, endgame for Diabolos.

I still think SE screwed up with making level 1 summons level 70+ fights.

It is sort of like making ballad drop from AV. Sorry Bards, you need to level another job to 75 first, kill AV, then learn the scrolls on your BRD. Hope you do not level past 25 and play gimp!

I was lucky. I had every avatar from level 1.

sure it sounds cool and its fun to break them out in the dunes for a bit of showing off or whatever but it's not actually as great as it sounds in terms of using them.

practically speaking even though i had em all i didnt really start using them up until the mid 20s. it was nice letting shiva do the odd blizzard 2 or something in the dunes but just doing that once was often enough to eat nearly half of my mp.

when i got to quifim i starts using fenrirs crescent fang which seemed to be rather effective on the worms/crabs in qufim and its para effect can be really strong, not exactly sure how it works theres rumours but moon phase affecting para potency and all sorts. i think maybe 25 is when the elemental avatars really start to come into play. it's nice but not a huge problem if you dont have fenrir yet.

from a party buff point of view i did use diabolos's noctoshield quite frequently in the 50s and again fenrir. i found noctoshield and epileptic howl where my main wards up until about the early 60s. i found noctoshield + regen was a big form of stress relief in partys where i was the main healer.

coming into the 60s i found my role changing into a more offensive one. with my primary focus being using avatars tier4 nukes to burst skillchains. something which seems forgotten today and when eclipse bite arrives at 65 you can really start to put out the damage. from 65-70 fenrir was pretty much the only avatar to have. epilietic grow/howl and eclipsebite pretty much the way forward up to level 70. where the big pacts spinning dive predator claws all come into play. 70-75 is the most fun part for a smn. all those "loldesperationforhealerinvites" just dont seem to matter anymore.

anyway based on all this. i would say you can live with carby until 20 easily. having the others is nice but you wont use em so much cos of mp.
at 20 then you really want to be looking at having the other 6 (or at a minimum ramuh,titan and ifrit getting the other 3 by about level 25)
then i'd aim for getting fenrir/diabolos at about 50. people will be wanting epilectic howl at 54 so you really should have it. and while noctoshield isnt vital it can really have an impact on the number of cures your throwing out if your the main healer. but it's not required on the same level that fenrir is and even without noctoshield earthen ward can cut a big chunk out of ya cures. together they work really well.

if you dont have diabolos till 75 then its not a huge problem. and not something i imagine youd get turned down a part for. but i'd definately advise obtaining him before you think to much about endgame. his dreamshroud and nether blast really start to shine in many endgame situations.

so 1-20 = carby only, 20 = ramuh titan ifrit 25 = leviathan garuda shiva if not got at 20, 54 = fenrir, 75 = diabolos (49 can be usefull but not essential)


Edited, May 25th 2009 8:22am by Dzian

They have the right to expect whatever they want but they may be more disappointed the higher they set their expectations. Here's the absolute bare minimum (honestly all by the time you unlock the job is preferable to be done with avatars):

-Lv 20 all celestials
-Lv 50 Fenrir/Diabolos

This is giving extreme leniency, but expecting more than this (more by earlier) will have a significantly higher chance of being disappointed.

The "advanced jobs" are available by Lv 30 so yes you can play them and do them that way but I think they were originally designed so that yes you CAN get everything and do them from Lv 30 but if you have another capped job already, you have an advantage when leveling them over someone who only started at Lv 30. This is a proper trade-off and makes sense to me.

*Edit* I finished the post after running some errands and other posts had been made.

Edited, May 25th 2009 8:50am by Hapernack

Truthfully you're never "expected" to have all the avatars until they have an ability you need to use. The real must-haves in terms of avatar ability I'll list briefly below. If you can organise teams to help you with Fenrir and Diabolos (though, Diabolos is never really considered a must have, even if with Noctoshield), then all the better.

Avatar		Ability			Level 
-------------------------------------------------- 
Ramuh		Thunderspark (*)	Level 19 
Garuda		Aerial Armor		Level 25 
Ifrit		Double Punch (*)	Level 30 
Fenrir		Lunar Roar		Level 32 
Titan		Earthen Ward		Level 46 
Leviathan	Spring Water		Level 47 
Diabolos	Noctoshield		Level 49 
Shiva		Double Slap (*)		Level 50

Items marked with an asterisk (*) are attacks. They are listed here because they are the some of the strongest avatar abilities you will have at the level you receive them. This list is also not exhaustive. I've only listed the first required ability or the first one which strongly benefits Summoner as a job. You might want to have the elemental avatars available before level 10 for the potential magic bursts (Each avatar has a tier 2 spell of their element at 10+), but since magic bursting is both difficult and players rarely skillchain, I've overlooked that when considering their useful abilities.

Edit: Another note that veterans might mention is the exclusion of Shiva's Sleepga (Level 39). This is because the time it takes to summon shiva and use her ability makes it nearly useless for decent crowd control. You would have to have Shiva out already and access to her Wards to make good use of Sleepga. It's accuracy also varies quite wildly at earlier levels.

Edited, May 25th 2009 11:34am by Crystan

All Celestials get Tier II magic at level 10.

I endorse this product and/or service.

You can get the main 6 at 20 in Solo battles with a few meds and skill/luck.

you should easily have the majority of these much before level 50. 6 of the 8 scrolls are rediculously cheap (500g-2k each last time i checked) admittedly light n dark are a bit more expensive but theres almost no reason at all to not have 6/8 at level 50. least youll have the right spirit 75% of the time with 6/8

light and dark are more expensive cos theyre usually better at various endgame. for example bumping siphon with light spirit in temenos will out perform any other spirit regardless of day. the same with dark spirit in apollyon and dynamis.

This: if you don't have a 75 yet.
60 COR could maybe get away with being support for a group of SMNs doing Fenrir, but you are so out of luck for Diabolos.

It's not just whether or not you have a 75, but whether or not you have the -right- 75. Setting up a Fenrir run without a SMN or a Diabolos without a BLM is a lot more difficult than having that job. No one runs pickups for those that aren't burns anymore. And convincing friends to do something in this game is like pulling teeth.

Not saying it's not possible, just saying it's unnecessarily hard to set up because the game's general population has a burn-only mentality for these things.

Considering the fact you can buff pets as a cor, just ask 1 or 2 pup to solo/duo Diabolos for you. I personaly duo'ed him with a pup friend to get my Diabolos earring.