Dragoon Versus SummonerFollow

So, the title basically states my intent. I am just starting the game, but I want to get to know the classes and such first, before I actually start. Thus I have boiled down my main two choices of classes to either Dragoon or Summoner. So I wanted the boards opinions on which ones are better.

Some of these things interest me:
End Game Content
Soloing
Being able to get a group easily

But if you want to bring up points about either one then anything you can do to help is appreciate.

Thank you

(Note: Post was put onto both boards, Summoner and Dragoon in order to get the best results.)

So. Dragoons are gimped because of a nerf that was corrected that happened 6 years ago?

DRGs just tend to get picked for a DD spot fairly low until you reach bird camps, when their piercing bonus really takes over.

Neither job will find it easy to get invites, but at least DRG does get easier to find parties starting around level 55.

End game....you will find a lot more chances on SMN than DRG, which has virtually no end game use. Although even SMNs end game popularity has reduced over the years as stuff like zerging has becoming more popular.

Soloing....both are actually good solo jobs, but they solo completely different things normally.

A DRG so may be unfair to answer this, but on the other hand I have the invite experience to answer it. The stigma is pretty much dead. DRG, of all my classes except for BRD gets the most invites. Further more, since the introduction of both level sync and Colibri in East Ronfaure [S], the level at which DRGs(and polearm wielding SAMs) start getting easy invites is actually 35. I still, at 75, get really quick invites to East Ron unless I put {Level Sync} {No thanks.}, and even then I still get a random one here and there.

Problem there is you may find yourself in 35-38 level parties from 35-55, then it will be a toss up between 35-38 and 55-58 until middle 60s, then it adds 63-66 to that list until 75. You'll find occasional parties that level at different ranges(Mire @68+ etc) but the fast invites will be at those ranges.

This, of course, causes you to have severely underleveled skills, weapon, evade, etc. You either need to find a skill up party, force yourself to wait for a party that is your level, or solo skill ups(what I do).


This is the only thing that really hurts our invites nowadays. Alot of people have been leveling SAM and DRG as well, so you'll find competition even among the generally most wanted classes.

Dragoon is a great DD and my guess is the -60 you will get more invites as a DRG. The other day I had 2 DRG 2 BLU A BLM and a DRK in my pt (With a amazing PL) and the Dragons were dishing out quite a bit of damage at level 17-21. This being said I like SMN more just because it's good at endgame and a fun unique job to play. But despite my love for SMN I'd definetly get DRG to 50 before starting SMN because it will up the game experience that really helps with SMN as well as getting you time to get well connected. It's up to you.

If you already decided for these two jobs, I suggest you start by DRG, It's easy to start by, because on Summoner, sooner or later you'll need a level 75 job, if you want to get all the avatars (Fenrir & Diabolos)



Now if you will level X job because of End game...

I suggest you think twice, because you might end up throwing all your effort, just because the job is not suited to your play style.


Edited, Apr 24th 2009 1:56pm by Reaven

and of course Tiamat, Cerb, Khimmy, Vrtra, Odin.....

and please tell me you are not dying 10+ times to these and not using melee...

As zerging become more popular you find more and more use for drg. Well not use but need for DRG. Excluding drk zerging, every zerg benefits immensely from angon. And even with drk zerg you will still have other DDs hacking away.

Well....if your LS is thinking BLMs > SMNs on Tiamat, I think that kinda speaks enough on the strategies and job choices of your linkshell.


I mean obviously a mob with a high magic defense and average physical resist, and horrible AoE TP moves, my job of choice would be the BLMs spamming spells and TP... [/sarcasm]


I believe I posted on here the example before that the only job that could even touch me on a early morning with me as the only SMN was 2 top geared DRKs. http://www.dakpluto.net/tiamat110107.html One was a K.club DRK, other Merc. Kris. I came within 6000 total damage of the Merc. Kris DRK. BLMs did a whopping 3%-5% more than the tanks....

Only reason you should ever use BLMs on Tiamat is if you are doing the sleep on land -> nuke in air method, which you should only do that if really short on people or just really like taking twice as long to do a Tiamat.

Cerb...eh, Melee can do better, but are just stupid to have to heal through it, and TP gain on Cerb can get really bad at times. Still best to have SMNs doing the bulk of the damage and have melee as SAM or /SAM and rotate in for WS damage only.

Khim, see same as above with Cerb. Melee = stupid. They should only be coming in for WS only. Between Dreadstorm, Mist, Thunderstrike, etc you should never be building TP on him. Melee should only come in for WS only. And even then your melee of choice should be BLU. If a moron showed up DRK to our Khim I'd tell him to warp his ass back home and switch to a job that will actually be of use to us. So again, your best DoT....SMN. BLMs are stun only as Khim's magical defense is completely stupid, and even worse if you haven't broken the wings. Fortunally Fulmy isn't as stupid as Gates, so can normally get by with 2 Stunners.

Sandworm: yeah, wouldn't bring a SMN within 100 feet of it. It is a pretty crappy job for it. All the inside mobs are really best done with an old fashioned SC -> Massive MB method. (Well, kinda exception with Lambton, but can still be done if careful.) Obviously with Lamton, a bad timed P.claws can pretty much make you cry as you watch it heal the worm for 10-15%.

Ixion: yeah, plenty of TP mobs, weak in the rear...SMN is "ok" damage, but really best replaced with /THF DD.

Vrtra: well, right now the best strat is....well...ignore it (unless they finally un-ninja the stupid draw-in change) If they haven't fixed it, then really unkillable anyways as you can't kite or even straight tank the bitch anymore. Good job SE....

Fafhogg: I'll make the claim right now. You got RR with Magic Attack, capped Magic Attack merits, and capped Wind Blade or Thunderstorm, you are now the best DD there. Between a stupid low resist rate on Merit BPs on them, great damage, and MBing, we now own. BLMs have to back off because of hate...we don't. And no BLM is going to touch an average of 1400-1800/min damage with no stop. However...the only reason why I balk at bringing a ton of SMNs to DA now.....god we suck at claiming...seriously we need something better than Dia for claiming :\



I still find plenty of uses for SMN in Limbus (more Temenos than Appolyon though.)

Now, without a doubt there is places where SMN is worthless (but lots of jobs suffer that.) But if your LS is completely ignoring SMN now, they are making sh*t a lot harder than it needs to be.

Could be fun to parse myself sometime just to see how I fair compared to their BLM and SAM tossing. What are good/easy/not too memory consuming parsers?

My shell uses a similar mix of jobs as Mellowy's. I always get annoyed seeing a ton of blms and me as usually the only summoner at Tiamat because they are less effective on him, yet they feel no shame complaining about me coming as smn to most things. These are pimped out geared blms and they have a huge resist rate on Tiamat. Most of their spells land for 100-600 damage while my typical grand fall with no astral pot was hitting 500 damage pre-update (haven't been online for last 3 tiamats. I think the reason for this though is that people who love playing blm generally hate playing smn for some reason, so even when summoner is called for those people will do anything to not have to drag smn gear out of storage and play it. I found 5/5 merit pacts on Tinnin to have a much lower resist rate than blm nukes and same damage, but I still go pup to that.



I think a lot of people are underestimating the speed with which drg has risen through the ranks as a melee DD over the past 3 years. Angon endgame is a large benefit to any zerg, Drg is a solid DD in almost any event or enemy (just not wyrms and dragons how ironic). A lot of events I show up to summoner I get asked to switch to drg because they want more DD. Einherjar, Dynamis, Salvage, Limbus, Zergs, etc i'm usually asked to show up as drg. For most HNM's in endgame summoner is very effective at doing damage to large enemies, and its a great job for nearly any mission across any expansion. I haven't experienced any drg negative stigma in over 2 years. On my server drg burns are extremely popular for meriting and I get merit invites while anon or not seeking on drg just as often as you would on brd (I don't walk around on drg anymore without anon up. So sick of meriting). If you want to have an easy road leveling up i suggest drg because not only is it a powerhouse DD for exp parties, you can solo at any level as drg/mage. Drg solo is far superior in speed and simplicity to smn soloing on anything that does not explode or 1 shot you.


Summoner can be somewhat difficult to level up because its kind of awkward in exp parties. Generally you will be a healer in parties, but ocassionally get to be support role. Summoner is strange in that what it does in parties is not what it does in end game at all. I almost never cure anyone at endgame events, and i'm not expected to. I think you should take Dak's advice on summoner though and consider it as a second job after you've gained game experience and have a lvl75 job to help you gather the things required for summoner. Summoner can be slow and difficult to level if you're unlucky, but I can garuntee you that Drg will level VERY fast and you can pick up smn right after you're done.


I leveled drg 1-75 in 2 weeks 4 years ago, you can probably do it even faster now. The key is to solo for exp in between party invites. And actually a 75drg/mage can solo any of the 6 basic avatars in the protocrystals, so I would personally recommend drg to 75 then smn to 75.

Kind of funny that I will be the only SMN in 95% of the cases so there won't be a problem.

I assume it is easy to find in google, or are there many trojans around?

It is indeed apples to oranges, but in the end you still get juice. It just tastes a little different.

If this person is just starting the game, he's probably trying to decide which job he should take to 75 first. Most players choose an advanced job as their first because they're a little more exotic than the basic jobs. These being 2 very opposite ends of the spectrum will also depict which advanced jobs he should start with. I think it's a good question honestly.

BTW... DRG CAN control their pets, you just gotta know how. *Hint: the answer lies in the subjob*

That is because they have the same intelligence as your NPC fellow.