{Jump}ing through hoopsFollow

I would prioritize Drakesbane first since you already have runic key and with a WS partner this can be done in no time. It is extremely powerful (not sure what WS gear you have but the better your WS gear gets the better this WS gets compared to penta).

Second I would try to get level 80. This will do more for you then any merits.

Third depends on what you do, but I would unlock angon and deep breathing (just unlock it for now). They are nice to have in a pinch.

Fourth would be cap polearm merits (or get as many as you want to get). The extra attack/acc is nice.

I honestly wouldnt even bother with Impulse Drive. I have the spear of trials unlocked but havent turned it in because I cant think of a single time I would use the WS. Can do light with Drakesbane (and it is more powerful), and then use Sonic Thrust or Wheeling Thrust if mob defense/evasion starts going up beyond Drakesbanes comfort zone. If anyone can tell me a reason for Impulse Drive then maybe I'll get it but I havent heard anything so I wouldnt bother wasting your time.

After polearm merits I would go for a longer angon for sure. Other than that it depends a little on playstyle. If you solo a lot then Deep Breathing may be the way to go (this is the route I plan to go). Empathy seems pretty meh to me, but someone may have more insight on it. Giving a random buff just seems not worth it to me. I would rather go 5/5 angon/deep breathing.

Well, the main reason I'm getting Impulse Drive is because I'm a completionist like that, and also because part of the deal of my brother helping me by opening Light for my Wheeling Thrust to close for Drakesbane points is that I'm helping him with his Magian Trial (he has to kill worms with his DNC's dagger), so after I unlock Drakesbane I'm going to be there anyway until the trial is done, so I might as well get WS points while I do it.

After I turn in the spear, I'll just go solo Water Leaper sometime when I'm bored on RDM; I'm certainly not going to put off leveling just to kill a WSNM for a WS that isn't even good.

So you wouldn't stop even to get one merit trait/ability? If so, I'll just hop right back into Abyssea once I get Drakesbane.

Regarding my WS gear, you'd know better than I would how good it is for DB:

Skystrider¹/Rose Strap/Tiphia Sting
Askar Zucchetto/Chivalrous Chain/Assault Earring/Brutal Earring
Scorpion Harness/Tarasque Mitts²/Ruby Ring/Rajas Ring
Forager's Mantle/Warwolf Belt/Barone Cosciales/Marine M Boots

¹I should have enough for a Thalassocrat sometime this weekend, so I'll be selling back Skystrider soon since I don't have Supremacy Earring.
²Will buy Tarasque +1 once my Spiked Finger Gauntlets sell, I have 1/2 a Byakko pop so it's only a matter of time before I get Heca, as long as I'm lucky

Personally, as long as you were carrying your weight in an abyssea pt, I wouldn't mind if you unlocked drakesbane while leveling there. The weapon isn't very weak compared to thal. Might as well use it to get weaponskill points on your way up to 80.

Edit: So I would say
2a Level 80
2b Unlock Drakesbane while doing 2a.

Edited, Jul 30th 2010 3:01pm by Meldi

Thanks everyone for the help. My LS does Abyssea XP marathons every Saturday, so ideally I'll be 80 or close to it by tomorrow night (since I won't be spending any time in Merit mode instead of leveling), and I should be able to unlock Drakesbane tonight easily.

And yeah, I have 70,000 cruor at the moment, so I'll be Confluxing to the entrance and buying 5/5 Perle the moment I ding 78.

I've already got mine macro'd and ready to go, and I just hit 75 today...

I can't comment on this too much. The only endgame I used to do was Limbus and some Dynamis, that was about it. Depending on the Dynamis and size, it wasn't difficult to keep my wyvern alive without Empathy. Limbus, it was usually a non-issue; on some floors--like the slimes floor in Temenos and Apollyon--your wyvern is going to die no matter how many Empathy buffs you copy over and how often you Spirit Link.

Anything stronger than that and Pro/Shell won't stop the inevitable--a dead wyvern.


How does this relate to Empathy? Any DRG can do that without merits in it.


If anything, I was suggesting that Spirit Link was at its most useful for EP soloing... Not sure why you thought I was downplaying it.


When do you solo anything considered "hard" that doesn't require HB spam? It's very polarized. Either you fight EP-DC mobs that are severely nerfed by Signet/Sigil bonuses, or you fight EM-T targets which will still leave you recasting a few seconds later, no matter how strong your HB setup is. Greater Colibri are about the easiest "hard" solo I can think of; at 75, your wyvern won't have time to build a meaningful store of TP. I haven't bothered fighting them at 80 but considering that Sanction doesn't have the DEF/EVA bonus Signet and Sigil have, I imagine it's still the same situation.

Again, though, this is an issue independent of Empathy.


Actually, I can count the number of times I've joined an EXP party as /sam on one hand. I've also /maged a fair bit in Limbus. I've led 28-30k/hr parties as drg/whm (or /blu usually, I play aggressively and end up tanking often); my HB set is fully maxed ('sides that new Lancer's Torque). I'm just as crazy about /whm as you are. Outside of Nyzul, Empathy is useless to me; whatever is going to kill my wyvern is going to kill it, no matter what Protect or Shell I copy over. There's an argument for haste but considering that the process is randomized, you'll probably snag Hasso, Pro/Shell, or whatever other buffs you might have on you.

Again... the Spirit Link TP transfer is independent of Empathy.


Agreed on all points! Except the Empathy sentiment.*

Edit: Typos. And clarifying my feelings about Empathy. *cough*

Edited, Jul 30th 2010 9:42pm by jprvoices

I'd also agree with unlocking Drakesbane first, then putting at least one merit into Angon - for most of the "big" stuff you fight, Angon is the reason that you're on DRG in the first place, although DRG is even more of a beast since the 80-cap, with CTP, Spirit Link TP transfer, Spirit Jump etc.



I think what Byx is getting at is that Spirit Link cannot be used if your Wvern is at 100% HP, which is quite often if you aren't fighting mobs with AoE (although I get around this by macroing in Wyvern HP+ gear when I use Spirit Link, but I guess with Empathy you don't have to worry about the delay).

A bit touchy, aren't we?

In any case, cool, I didn't know that. Thank you both for pointing that out. I think I will keep my Empathy merit, in that case.

Actually, I got Drakesbane last night, yay me.

And no, I don't use /p Jump macros. Or any /p macros at all, other than Convert (which is reasonable to have a /p macro for).

Empathy HELPS. But the question is not if it does anything or not, (obviously it does something). The question is does it do MORE than other merits.

5/5 angon=given. Its like 5/5 feint on thf. Just hands down the best choice for 99% of situations you would be on drg for.

Other 5:
Empathy vs Deep breathing Vs strafe.

Strafe is collectively known to be garbage. Deep breathing does the job of boosting wyvern breaths overall damage (probably more so) while not being wasted when you are /mage.

Leaves us with deep breathing vs empathy.

Unlock Deep breathing at LEAST. Its a 1point wonder.

4 left. Empathy gets better the more you have (transfering 4 buffs will actually get you the stuff you want on your wyvern without spamming every 3 min for 9 min to get past pro/shell/hasso to DD buffs). It is NOT a 1 point wonder in that sense.

At this point it personal prefecence, but for me, I went deep breathing 5/5 because its not situational at all. Drg/DD you just spam every 5 min for free damage like wars charge on a 5min timer for ~3-400 more damage than a normal breath. /mage has obvious uses. Its always good in any situation and doesnt require cure spam just to use the ability and waste mage MP on me. I solo /blu so there is nothing to transfer when i solo since wyvern wont get any useful buffs...yay cocoon when wyvern never gets hit >_>. In group scenarios, i hate sponging more MP to keep haste/songs on a wyvern for a slight DD output (ie spamming link when wyvern isnt taking damage just for buff transfer). Deep breathing boosts damage output and costs me nothing. This leaves the ONLY use for me that I would ever consider empathy for is purely for wyvern survival. Between my AF+1 helm spirit link and a 20 min call timer....you really DO have to be fighting some mobs that spam AOEs (slimes in ein, -ga casting mage mobs etc) that do more damage than i can heal and kill it with a long time remaining on call wyvern. If were fighting mobs like that, i think mages have bigger things to worry about than another cure 4-5 every 3 min because i want to keep my wyvern alive. I just let it die. Short version, if my wyvern is going to die, i dont struggle to keep it alive wasting more MP on a lost cause. Sure shell may have let it live through 1 more aoe, but either way its breaths will suck because it is fluctuating in HP anyway so its not really going to help much even if it IS alive.

There is nothing situational about a 5min timer divine seal/elemental seal combo for wyvern breaths. There isnt anything situational about 1:30 duration angon. There is a lot of situational when you transfer buffs you may or may not have that may or may not be useful (hasso, cocoon when soloing, pro/shell when its not taking damage etc). I far prefer consistent abilities than stuff i only use sometimes. Thus my preference for deep breathing over strafe (strafe does jack /mage) and for similar reasoning why i chose DB over empathy.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 12:03pm by Banalaty

I'm not done pleading my case for empathy o_o. For the record, I'm 5/5 angon, 3/5 empathy, 2/5 deep breathing.

Point 1: At 75 with max HP, max XP bonus and wyrm armet, a wyvern will do 255 unresisted breaths. With Deep breathing, it will do 510 breaths. Not quite 300-400 more damage. I can't say I've done anything at 80 /sam because of sync and /whm so I don't actually know how much that will do. o_o;

Point 2: Drachen armet +1 adds 15 hp to spirit link... I tested this personally on these forums, but I can't for the life of me remember what thread it's under.

Point 3: A wyvern that has lost HP will do less and less damage with his breaths reducing the benefit of deep breathing. One could comment that having a happy living wyvern with max or near max HP could be considered a situation. >.> One could also comment that needing to recover 927hp (DB/MaxXP) instead of 569 and having the lack of urgency in that need that you can delay the process with the use a job ability that adds another second~ to the process. Unless you're a Galka I guess. o_o; Things need to live for 90 seconds for adding 60 seconds to angon to matter. Bad ass monster = situation.

Anyways, personal preference, blah blah blah, medispiritlinkitate, blah blah blah, max wyvern HP spirit links for free tp removes some of the situationalitynot a real word from empathy. And I'll stop argueing now.


Edited, Aug 2nd 2010 3:30pm by Byxfluzba

I would say my wyvern generally does 25% more damage than the wyvern of others, and I can chalk this up to two things: previously, superior TP gear (not anymore, THANKS perle!) means more wyvern breaths in general, plus Deep Breathing and Wyrm Armet swap after WS.

What does that mean in terms of MY overall contribution to party damage? Maybe just 1 or 2%. But there are few other merits that will give you such an increase on their own, anyway.

Finally, just one point in Deep Breathing means you do about 300-400 more damage at the start of a zerg; as most things you zerg will be of sufficiently high level that your breath would have been greatly resisted.

Banalaty your random interchanging of HB and DB makes that really confusing to read.