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#177 May 30 2008 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
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Okay I was trying to figure something out.

As Drg/Sam is the pole strap > mythril grip +1?

I just don't see the adding 2% chance to double attack to myself would add more than +2 str/vit/acc.

Not sure though so that's why I'm going to ask here and see what the opinion is.
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#178 May 30 2008 at 7:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pole Strap is pretty much the best grip available at the present time - the exception being if you're using a multi-hit weapon (e.g. Soboro).
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#179 May 30 2008 at 7:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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SINisterWyvern wrote:
Okay I was trying to figure something out.

As Drg/Sam is the pole strap > mythril grip +1?

I just don't see the adding 2% chance to double attack to myself would add more than +2 str/vit/acc.

Not sure though so that's why I'm going to ask here and see what the opinion is.


homework: what exactly does mythril grip+1 do, and what exactly does pole strap do? answer in terms of % DoT increase. if you can't answer, peruse the DRG and SAM forums until you can. once you know the answer, post it, and you'll have answered your own question.

edit: this is not a question of opinion. if "what's better in terms of overall DoT increase?" is the question, there is exactly 1 right answer. don't think of it in terms of "opinions". we know enough about this game to answer this question with complete certainty (p.s. the answer is "pole strap is better", so if you don't come to that, try again).

Edited, May 30th 2008 11:46pm by milich
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#180 Jun 01 2008 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Milich instead of helping me you found a gentleman's way of being a douchebag.


Edit: Ty Solrain for actually answering me.

Edited, Jun 1st 2008 4:55pm by SINisterWyvern
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#181 Jun 01 2008 at 6:01 PM Rating: Good
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SINisterWyvern,

i love trying to help people and being insulted for it. how about this: fuck you. expect about the same if you come asking for people to do more work for you, dick.

edit: alla put a quote by darkani instead of SINisterWyvern when i originally posted this. i'm not sure how, considering there aren't any posts by darkani on this page according to the quick ctrl+f i just did (so i can't see how it could have been my mistake as i first assumed), but meh. this edit cuts some of the punchiness of my initial reply, so let me reiterate that SINisterWyvern can fuck off.

as an aside, i suspect this jackass thinks simply saying "pole strap is better" is "really answering" and "more helpful" than trying to get him/her to understand what STR, ACC, VIT, and double attack do. in case anyone else agrees, i want to point out that you are wrong. if you would like me to prove this point, watch this: brass grip is better.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2008 1:39am by milich
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#182 Jun 02 2008 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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It wasn't the answer it was the way you answered it. Sorry I don't pay allah's to search the forums and came up with no answers on my own. In logical fashion I saw Str = WS's and dmg, Acc = everything, and Vit = jumps vs. an extra swing every 50 swings statistically.

I do appreciate the answer but I don't appreciate the
    assumptions
you made about me looking for it. Sorry for being a newer player with a real question.

On the note of doing any work did you do all the number crunching to come to your conclusion?
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#183 Jun 02 2008 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

On the note of doing any work did you do all the number crunching to come to your conclusion?


as a matter of fact, yes i did.
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#184 Jun 02 2008 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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I've got a couple questions about my gear as well. I'm pretty much an AH dragoon, as I grind far too often, and am still rank 5, and on Promy 2-5. Right now my gear is as follows:

weapon - Thalassocrat
sub - Pole Strap
ammo - Smart Grenade
head - Walahra Turban (TP) and Wyvern Helm (if i remember to swap for WS)
neck - Chivalrous Chain
ears - Assault/Coral
body - Assault Jerkin
hands - Tarasque Mitts
rings - 2x Woodsman
back - Amemet Mantle +1
waist - Potent Belt
legs - Barone Coscialles
feet - Amir Boots

Right now I have 5 Polearm Merits and 1 Merit in Angon. So far I'm pretty happy with my setup, as I just exited a decent Merit PT at Mamool Ja Staging point contributing 40% of the damage from me, and 7% more from Kagero. However, my accuracy (only 4 polearm merits at the time) was only 82.9% while eating meat. I realize that Mamool are very evasive, but I the higher damage output from Coeurl Subs made up for the 4-5% loss from using Sole Sushi. However, as I'm slightly elitist, I'm looking for upgrades to my setup. I've been thinking about swapping out the Tarasque Mitts for Dusk Gloves, but I'm not sure if the 5%>8% difference is worth 400k. Other than that, I'm not really sure what I should be looking for, and I think i'll stick with the amount of accuracy I have until i have capped Polearm skill, and then go from there.

Any tips, comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Neona
#185 Jun 03 2008 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
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well heres mine i guess, don't know if it matters for my lvl though, feel free to tip me in on what would be better but not for rich people >.>

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?185928]

yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR
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#186 Jun 03 2008 at 3:59 AM Rating: Good
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Korokedo wrote:
yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR


Ya, I'd say a bit more acc gear, although it depends what you're eating. I'm more of a fan of accuracy gear (in as many slots as I can get it) and meat as opposed to mixed attack/accuracy gear and sushi.

I just went through your lvls with this stuff (Brigandine>Peti, Brass+1>Mythril+1, Battle Gloves>SFG, Beelte+1>Spike, Swordbelt+1/Tilt Belt>Life Belt/Swift Belt[I don't use Swift just yet but it's there]) and only parsed 80%-85% accuracy with meat and usually one Madrigal which to me is frustrating. I pretty much keep the same stuff in for Penta - maybe throw the Swordbelt+1 in when I feel lucky (read: feel like missing 2-3 hits XD).

So take it from me who just went through your level range. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy and meat!

Gear critiques welcome, btw.



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Second, that's not how spell animations work. We wrap our arms around our faces and magic beetle shadows and sh*t fly at the targets.
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#187 Jun 03 2008 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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I thought this thread was all about helping people with gear questions...not tearing them a new one for asking a gear question. The guy had a legitimate question and can't use the search function. I could understand if he was one of those "You dont need to tell me how to better gear my job" guys, but from what I could see, he just wanted some clarification on something. Smiley: twocents
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#188 Jun 03 2008 at 7:10 AM Rating: Default
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I got a Love Halberd last night^^

Haven't had the chance to try it out on colibri yet.


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#189 Jun 03 2008 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Solrain wrote:
Korokedo wrote:
yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR


Ya, I'd say a bit more acc gear, although it depends what you're eating. I'm more of a fan of accuracy gear (in as many slots as I can get it) and meat as opposed to mixed attack/accuracy gear and sushi.

I just went through your lvls with this stuff (Brigandine>Peti, Brass+1>Mythril+1, Battle Gloves>SFG, Beelte+1>Spike, Swordbelt+1/Tilt Belt>Life Belt/Swift Belt[I don't use Swift just yet but it's there]) and only parsed 80%-85% accuracy with meat and usually one Madrigal which to me is frustrating. I pretty much keep the same stuff in for Penta - maybe throw the Swordbelt+1 in when I feel lucky (read: feel like missing 2-3 hits XD).

So take it from me who just went through your level range. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy and meat!

Gear critiques welcome, btw.



lol also i just remembered at lv49 i get penta thrust so imma need more acc to land my hits anyways so more acc it is! (ding hit lv47 a few mins ago)
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#190 Jun 03 2008 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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i'm satisfied with my party gear (see above), but i would like some input on a solo setup. i dont have much solo experience, and just recently i have been getting into soloing sea puks by the mamool staging point with blu sub. here's what i've been working with, and my ideas for solo upgrades in parenthesis.

weap: iron ram lance
sub: pole strap
range: mamoolbane
head: drachen helm
neck: chiv chain
earring: fowling/storm loop (insomnia earring?)
body: SH (hydra mail?)
hands: carapace gauntlets (hydra finger gauntlets?)
rings: woodsmans or rubys (unyielding ring?)
back: amemit +1
waist: warwolf or life belt
legs: drachen brais
feet: amir

i also have a chanoix's gorget, so i will look at macroing that in soon. i used this setup last night and solo'd 18k lp. hydra mail looks nice, and that would bring my dmg reduction up to -13% with some nice dex, agi and def over the SH. hydra hands look nice too with the added vit, acc and eva (look nice for party use too). i'm thinking of unyielding for the str and agi. i really want to lessen the number of crits i take, they're a major annoyance. and then insomnia for +hp/mp...the storm loop is only there to replace my assault earring with it's -def and -eva. is there any elusive rare/ex gear that is great for solo?
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#191 Jun 03 2008 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Zisaa, Mercenary Major wrote:
I thought this thread was all about helping people with gear questions...not tearing them a new one for asking a gear question. The guy had a legitimate question and can't use the search function. I could understand if he was one of those "You dont need to tell me how to better gear my job" guys, but from what I could see, he just wanted some clarification on something. Smiley: twocents


since i don't have my free premium anymore, i use a barbaric search function called a scroll bar and my eyes.

honestly, i didn't feel like explaining base damage and accuracy for the thousandth time. i'd be shocked if i haven't provided math answering this person's question in at least 3 threads on the first page. and really, looking around for various explanations in different threads IS HELPFUL. i directed him/her to a good place to look (DRG and SAM forums, probably could have mentioned the "calculating melee damage" article by VZX on the wiki). i didn't think that was acting like a douchebag, and i think anyone who can't see why i was offended by the response is pretty thick.

if it makes you happy, here's the mythril grip+1 vs pole strap math:

pole strap increases total melee damage by 2%, for reasons which should be pretty obvious.

for mythril grip+1,
2STR = 50% chance of raising base dmg
with an 81 dmg lance + your fSTR, base dmg will be somewhere between 85 and 90.
1/90 = 1.11% increase in dmg from the 2STR, 50% of the time (the other 50% of the time it's 0% increase in dmg, so average of .555% bonus)

2ACC raises ACC% by 1. assuming 85%ACC, that's a 1.17% increase in total melee damage.

1.0117 * 1.0111 = 2.3% bonus best case,
1.17% bonus worst case,
average bonus: 1.7%

if ACC is capped, this bonus drops to 1.1% half of the time, 0% the other half.

so, for melee damage:
mythril grip+1: average bonus = 1.7%
pole strap: average bonus = 2%.


(incidentally, add in /WAR, going from 15% DA to 17% DA represents a 1.7% damage increase. to illustrate double attack's mildly decreasing returns:

100 rounds w/ 0% DA = 100 swings, 0% increase
100 rounds w/ 2% DA = 102 swings, 2% increase over 0% DA
100 rounds w/ 15% DA = 115 swings, 15% increase over 0% DA
100 rounds w/ 17% DA = 117 swings, 1.73% increase over 15% DA

notably, mythril grip+1's bonus goes down as you level up, because a) your ACC should be higher, and b) your base damage definitely will start higher, meaning you'll get about a .95% increase half of the time from the 2STR, and of course a 0% increase the other half of the time, for an average dmg/hit increase of .47%)

the 2VIT will raise jump by about .9%, or by 0%, depending on your current VIT. add in the 2ACC and you get about a 2.6% jump damage bonus when fSTR doesn't go up (assuming the VIT multiplier impacts your dmg, the chances of happening of which are pretty good). the other 50% of the time (when fSTR is raised), it's about 3.6% damage increase.

so, for jump damage: mythril grip+1 will almost always beat pole strap's 2% increase. shame swapping pole strap to mythril grip+1 erases TP (though on the topic of TP, you'll get overall a slight bit more of it from pole strap DAs than you will from mythril grip+1's ACC; the chances of this perceptibly influencing anything are rather low though). if ACC is capped, of course, pole strap pulls ahead (at least 50% of the time).

the 2 STR has the same 50% chance of raising fSTR, and about a 30% chance of raising WSC on penta thrust.
base dmg will start out around 120
so, 35% of the time: 0% bonus bonus, (fSTR up 0, WSC up 0)
15% of the time: .83% bonus, (fSTR up 0, WSC up 1)
35% of the time: .83% bonus, (fSTR up 1, WSC up 0)
15% of the time: 1.66% bonus, (fSTR up 1, WSC up 1)
average bonus: .66%

since the fTP of all hits of penta thrust is 1.0, 2% DA will provide a flat 2% total WS dmg increase, and thus wins for penta thrust.

for wheeling thrust, again 50% of the fSTR goes up, 50% of the time it doesn't. WSC will go up around 90% of the time, so for ease let's just say half the time base dmg goes up by 1, half the time it goes up by 2. your base dmg will start higher because of the 50% STR mod, say around 130 (90STR). so,
50% of the time: .77% bonus
50% of the time: 1.5%
average bonus: 1.13%

wheeling thrust's fTP is 1.75, so the first hit is 75% stronger than the double attack. so, pole strap will only provide around a 1.14% damage increase for wheeling thrust.
(1/1.75 * 2 = 1.14~)

so for WS dmg: pole strap wins soundly for penta thrust, and is about even for wheeling thrust (if the ACC matters for wheeling, mythril grip +1 would win slightly, but for reasons i don't want to go into, it probably won't matter).

conclusion: if most of your damage came from jump, mythril grip+1 would win. however, most of your damage comes from melee and WS, where pole strap does more.

----

side comment about this discussion: the number crunching wasn't entirely necessary, if you look up and get a feel for how damage works. pole strap obviously increases damage by 2% or slightly less. if you know your base dmg is around 100, and that 2STR raises fSTR 50% of the time, you know that you're getting around an average dmg bonus of .5% from the STR, and 1% from the ACC. 1.01 * 1.005 < 1.02, and we're done. but yes, i can and often do crunch the numbers, and i don't appreciate being insulted for trying to urge someone on to learning about it themselves.

i post things like this because i had to learn all the math myself, since back in the day the people who knew it (with the exception of VZX) never made any effort to share or explain their knowledge. i've tried to change this, and have been (along with many other people doing the same thing on KI, here, and BG) largely successful. calling it "acting like a douchebag" makes me think twice about helping people. what do i care if you blindly buy **** off the AH and take any asshole on a forum's word for gear decisions (and yes, i have verified for myself in game all the equations i use)? am i an *** for requesting people take 10 minutes to find and read 1 of the other 200 posts i spent over an hour each writing on the topic they're looking for? you're not the first jerk to ask about pole strap you know. so again, fuck you.
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#192 Jun 03 2008 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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korokodo wrote:
well heres mine i guess, don't know if it matters for my lvl though, feel free to tip me in on what would be better but not for rich people >.>

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?185928]

yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR


you miss more than you think you do at that level; your ACC isn't capped unless you're fighting like even match mobs exclusively. your 2 STR rings raise your dmg by about 2%, while 2 woodsmans would raise it by about 7%, which is a significant improvement. and, as you seem to have already noticed, you'll need to get the ACC rings eventually to avoid gimpness (i would never re-invite someone if they showed up to a party TPing in STR rings by the way; it's a big nono). so, may as well get them now.

the tilt belt, and even moreso life belt at 48, is better than swordbelt, but keep the swordbelt. if you find yourself in a high ACC situation (maybe getting madrigal, or soloing something DC/EM, or in a party fighting T/VT) you may want to switch to swordbelt. it's a nice situational piece of equipment. though, if you only wear 1 belt for the next several levels, making it life belt would be the right choice.

---

neonaa,

while dusk gloves are indeed an upgrade, i wouldn't bother with them until you get swift belt and maybe some homam/barbarossa (though you may as well wait on homam hands in that case, like i did). if you regularly use hasso, dusk gloves will be a bigger increase, though dusk pants would be nice as well or instead, at least before you build up a haste setup. also, in the 80-85% ACC situation you described, wearing ohat over turban would probably be a good idea, especially if you're not using hasso or getting march and/or haste.

tiphia sting is slightly better than smart grenade if you have some gil lying around. everything else i wouldn't change until you start getting haste gear.

---

daimen,

congrats.

---

gamalielwise,

i'm not the world's greatest soloer, so i'd get some other opinions here, but i'm not convinced that the huge DoT increase you absorb by using iron ram lance is justified by its -10% dmg taken or HP/MP. i know the dps is comparable to thalassocrat, but you still do jumps and WSs. i'm thinking you'd do maybe 15%-20% more DoT with thalassocrat, ie the mob would die about that much quicker. maybe it's situational, dependent on how hard the mob hits and how much you end up simply outlasting things?

i agree with the hydra upgrades. as for elusive r/ex gear, wyrm armet of course, and homam for haste and HP/MP. i think swift belt would ultimate help as well, as would turban or ohat for when you're not doing healing breath (i'm lazy and wear AF+1 head while TPing solo). if you do limbus but for some reason don't get homam, AF+1 legs are very nice.

i can't think of anything else, but like i said before, i'm a pretty bad soloer.
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#193 Jun 03 2008 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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milich wrote:
korokodo wrote:
well heres mine i guess, don't know if it matters for my lvl though, feel free to tip me in on what would be better but not for rich people >.>

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?185928]

yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR


daimen,

congrats.



Well thanks for another great math post.

Will they ever learn?
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#194 Jun 03 2008 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks very much Milich ^^
#195 Jun 04 2008 at 2:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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GamalielWise;

Definitly go for thalassocrat as milich mention. And since you already soloed in your current setup, you don't realy need to go out of your way for specific solo gear. I solo in my PT gear setup except for head gear, where I use homam instead of turban for the DEF. Hydra mail is still a good upgrade over SH, and you can still use it in PTs, though it cost a lot. The carapace gauntlets are nice since latent tricker fast in solo. Fowling / storm is also fine, but what you should look into for solo is to macro in +HP gear so you can tricker HB earlier. Do 1 macro for HB / wyvern HP gear and then hit your HB tricker. Here is some usefull gear;

ammo: happy egg (if you want to use tiphia sting or smart granade for TP)
neck: chanoix's gorget
earring: insomnia earring (if you already have it) / physical earring
rings: bomb queen ring
back: gigant mantle
waist: ocean sash (if you are hume)
feet: marine m boots (if you are hume)

Most of the high +HP gear cost a lot though :-/ I personaly haven't gotten gigant mantle or ocean sash yet and sold marine m boots again. When you hit your HP gear macro you don't have to wait till your HP bar changes. You can just hit your HB tricker macro right after.

Saurian helm also helps a lot on HB if you don't have wyrm armet and should be your 1st priority.
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#196 Jun 04 2008 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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After some levels and merits I feel like I'm not getting enough bang for my buck with my gear. I'm an Elvaan M, 4 merits into Polearm (6 now), 1 into Crit. Can somebody please critique my set up for TP/Penta?

This is my TP/Penta set up...

Thal
Pole Strap
O. Hat (Walahra, Wyvern Helm avail.)
Smart Grenade (Is the Tiphia Stinger any better?)
Chiv Chain
Assault Earring
Fowling Earring
Barone Corazza
Sfg's
Woodsman x2
Amemet +1
Life/Warwolf/Sword +1
Conte Cosciales
Baron Gambieras

Aside from some haste items I'm farming for, and CoP/Sky being out of the question, is this the best I can do? Are there things that I just don't need in my set up? I'm hoping for both opinions and maybe some math. I'll appreciate any help I get, though.
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#197 Jun 04 2008 at 1:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is a pretty decent TP set until you can get some haste gear. You should parse at about 85% accuracy more or less on greater colibri, higher on imps/flies/jnun, lower on mamools which are the 3 common targets at 75. If you can get some decent haste equipment (some of it ra/ex) you might be able to switch some of this equipment out although it will lower your accuracy a bit.

For tp some pieces I would recommend you get to counter the accuracy you are going to loose with common haste pieces would be Assault for Amir boots and Pahluwan Seraweels (SE hates us, that is why they put both of these items in the same assault). that will allow you to safely take out 10 accuracy elsewhere in your tp set without hurting your accuracy percentage. Yes, Tiphia Sting is going to be better for you than smart grenade. -2 atk for +2 accuracy will make a big difference in the long run. Getting those last 2 polearm merits will give you another 3.6 acc and 4 atk too, so don't neglect those.

If you haven't started already, start camping the Assault Jerkin, +3 acc +18 atk will be good for your build for 2 reasons. One it is better than Barone corazza (except for maybe soloing, 2 hp Regen, and +2tp per Jump). Two it will allow you to sell that Barone Corazza so you can afford some of that haste gear you are talking about.

Sadly, without Sea/Sky your options for improvement are pretty limited. Maybe you can do salvage/nyzul isle assault and go for some ares/askar gear, but you are pretty tapped out as far as AH, easy NM gear you can get.

FYI, with your current gear, I would tp and WS in the same gear, full accuracy.
#198 Jun 04 2008 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Thats basically what I do at the moment. Never swap out anything. It saddens me that I really am lacking in the dmg potency dept, but you're helping me steer myself in the right direction.

Thanks.
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#199 Jun 04 2008 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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DaimenKain wrote:
milich wrote:
korokodo wrote:
well heres mine i guess, don't know if it matters for my lvl though, feel free to tip me in on what would be better but not for rich people >.>

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?185928]

yeah your prolly gonna tell me that i could use more acc gear but i dont miss too much so i sacrificed my tilt belt for the sword belt and my DEX rings for STR


daimen,

congrats.



Well thanks for another great math post.

Will they ever learn?
i quoted this one because its smaller but

like i said i remembered i get(got) pentas thrust so i bought me a life belt for 20k and i switched out my str rings for dex rings becasue like i said, im broke and 90k-200k rings are too much for me at the time because im saving for my scorp harness in 7 lvls, but i will get some of something sooner or later
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#200 Jun 05 2008 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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192 posts
thanks for the comments on my solo gear. i need to work on a few things and see what works out best for me. i am a hume male so i can get the hp+ gear. i had marine boots...but theyre soo expensive i decided to sell them! i plan to replace them with rutters for wheeling.
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FFXIV
Aeneas Owen / Trabia / Ul'dah / 18+ LNC
FFXI
Aeneas / Leviathan / Bastok / 75 DRG, WAR
#201 Jun 05 2008 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
Really just about to get 75, but gear on my profile. Drachen Greaves FTW! Gonna get better, but I dont have 10 hours to play every day. Quit playing for almost a year, gave Everything away, got back end of February this year @ 60 and started over gear wise, only a full set of AF, including polearm for a few days LOL >.<. Im not doin too bad considering I gave away about 4 mil in gear/gil last time. Up to about 2.5 mil just on drg... Not bad ha ha ha, better equiped than most drg I see, have few different peices I use for /whm or /sam, next up Blue Mage, sub job #4.

Actually, I would like a second opinion for a lvl 60 polearm, seems like easy choice for me, but for advice not taken...
For Galka
Schwarz Lance (8.93dps)
or
Grand Knight's Lance (9.76dps)

Does the stats on the Schwarz make up in jumps ect. the dps and a galka w/ close to no acc gear, how much more of a gap in dps should be expected from extra misses ect.

(For alot more gil...) Dark Mezraq +1 (10.29dps - 9.88dps reg.)

Have to figure out how to link items to page still >.>.

Edited, Jun 5th 2008 1:17pm by JackDanielsDrg
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