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SAM and DynabyssFollow

#1 Mar 31 2011 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Do you think SAM will make its comeback here or do you think people will stick to their current trend for best lowman setups of 2-3 ppl.

Sam should jump back to top-end spot for pure dmg dealer. 5HIT along with the nice Ketio+2, extra haste and WAR sj over /DRG as the haste isn't needed anymore adds some nice DMG to the SAM of 75. If the SAM has Tachi: Fudo* then thats arguably the best WS outside of Abyssea.

Reasons why I see SAM still struggling if groups for Dynabyss are typically going to be 3-4 people after we settle into it will be those groups will still probably prefer NIN or MNK for tank to start with, WHM, 2nd mage, then 1 more. Things will be different as all kinds of issues will pop up - like SAM and WAR will be dealing large amounts of dmg, more than maybe mnk or nin can keep up with to hold hate so what happens then. Chances are the lowman population will just take 2 mnks or 2 nins and get to work. If something like that trends on and on, then pure DD's like SAM/DRG/DRK might never see the light again.

Edited, Apr 1st 2011 4:08am by Sandmasterr
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#2 Mar 31 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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You mean Fudo instead of Hi right? Anyways, I don't see Dynamis as being as popular as Abyssea. Maybe initially, but I think that will die down after a few months once people get the pieces they want. We still have to see how SE switches things around. They said they will make "drastic" changes in mob placement, and have said we can get some time extension. So to me it is unclear how they will be working statues. Previously, you would pull a statue and mobs would spawn. Mages handled crowd control and statues and melees tore up the mobs one by one. Will that be the case now? Will you still have massive pulls and require crowd control, or will it be possible to pull individual mobs? Will they change the mob difficulty?

To me the biggest question is whether you will need/want a BLM or not. Otherwise the best set up will probably be old school merit style with BRD (x2 or COR?), Healer, DDs, but you will probably want a THF in the mix too. I bet a lot of THF+RDM duo's will farm there regularly too.
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Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#3 Apr 01 2011 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah if it becomes a low-man coin farm / relic making then THF will be the No1 mob. With their Evasion too, MNK mobs wouldn't be a problem for them. If new R/Ex or dyna specific ways of upgrading to +2 equipment arn't implemented then dyna will just become a coin farm.

The way they have left CoP zones alone suggests to me that they will infact implement getting +2 AF2 gears - It would certainly mean CoP zones will be used as those -1 pieces would become quite valuable, and how ever they made +2 upgrades possible in their new dyna structure, it would certainly keep dyna alive and kicking for a long time. It would also demand some group work for the CoP zones and affectively keeps current LS's alive that don't have greedy leaders.

It just feels like theres more to this story that SE is yet to inform us of.
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#4 Apr 04 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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For Dynamis, I admit I preferred having several of the 2 handed big WS numbers melee to put down mobs fast, Without atmas its possible Sam could make something of a comeback for a little. Honestly if its a linkshell level event, meaning 12-18 people, I'd expcet to see the 2 handed weapon people make something of a comeback, but overall DD are the most common class of jobs, Its hard for 1 to pull ahead over the others, except when special circumstances come in, like Mnks back in Salvage and mnks in Abyssea, I think Pld may have a chance to tank again in Dynamis. I have been doing seaall <job>, and its running 120 each in mnks and ninjas, and 200 whms, 100 thf, when the population is only around 1200 online. roughly 1/2 the population is playing on one of those 4 jobs, the next runners up are blm and war. with most 2 handed jobs, drk, sam, drg in the 20-30 range. Pld at 20ish also. Really just a comeplete turn around from the old Colbri days.

#5 Apr 05 2011 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see the need for PLD in Dynamis unless SE ups the mob difficulty significantly. Going 75-90 should vastly reduce the damage everyone takes now, and DDs should have no issue holding hate.

Also, even without atmas, 6-hit non-Fudo SAM was beginning to lag behind other DDs at 80+. 5-hit SAM with Fudo is a different story. SAM may see a resurgence in Dynamis, but it will require some work to make it worthwhile.
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Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#6 Apr 06 2011 at 3:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Also, even without atmas, 6-hit non-Fudo SAM was beginning to lag behind other DDs at 80+. 5-hit SAM with Fudo is a different story. SAM may see a resurgence in Dynamis, but it will require some work to make it worthwhile.


Its more like 85+ for non-Fudo SAM's but yeah.

A 5-HIT Keito+2 SAM has great offensive power and is leaps and bounds ahead of 6-HIT'GK' SAM's. The new sam should have a 5HIT (becasue you don't need +2 gear for it) and maybe Keito+2 because the GKT is better than any of its counter parts until Fudo's, and its free/solo-able.

Fudo SAM should surpass any other DD in the game outside of abyssea as it is (simplified) high dmg with no dependance of criticals.
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#7 Apr 06 2011 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Quote:
Also, even without atmas, 6-hit non-Fudo SAM was beginning to lag behind other DDs at 80+. 5-hit SAM with Fudo is a different story. SAM may see a resurgence in Dynamis, but it will require some work to make it worthwhile.


Its more like 85+ for non-Fudo SAM's but yeah.

A 5-HIT Keito+2 SAM has great offensive power and is leaps and bounds ahead of 6-HIT'GK' SAM's. The new sam should have a 5HIT (becasue you don't need +2 gear for it) and maybe Keito+2 because the GKT is better than any of its counter parts until Fudo's, and its free/solo-able.

Fudo SAM should surpass any other DD in the game outside of abyssea as it is (simplified) high dmg with no dependance of criticals.


I agree with you man ^^

Right now outside abbysea. My samurai with 5 hit Keito+2. Is a beast. Really if a DRG. WAR. or DRK. Not is using a 5 hit as well. They hardly can keep up with my damage. (Talking only outside abbysea).

My LS keep doing old events so i can still enjoying a lot of my samurai!
#8 Apr 06 2011 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Even at 80 my 6-hit Hagun SAM (25% Haste /DRG, with decent but not epic gear) was lagging a little back of the DRKs in my old Limbus shell. On easy stuff like Limbus mobs, YGK didn't really benefit from the extra attack and accuracy we got from more skill like WS's like Guillotine did. Other jobs were improving, and SAM was kind of standing still. With 5-hit Hirad+2 Fudo, I took back over in damage over everyone except an ls mate with 85 Masa, outside Abyssea of course. At 90 though, what did it matter? We were obliterating everything regardless of what job we were DDing with. You can pretty much duo any chip zone now with a mage, and I bet SAM could duo Omega with a RDM, we just never did with less than 4.
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Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#9 Apr 07 2011 at 4:51 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah I noticed lag behind using hagun at 80, and using the same weapon to level to 85 after update, well, it wasn't good. But making a 5HIT Keito+2 shifted everything back into perspective. I'm mainly MNK for abyssea, and I cant go SAM anyway to things and go all out DD because I just get hate and ko. For me, /NIN just doesn't work, to many conflicts of interest sooo.

I've sid this before, but SAM out of all the DD's needs a crit ws the least. DRK NEEDS on, but SAM, no, unless they want to break the job.


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#10 Apr 07 2011 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I still wish they would give SAM a crit WS. Fudo is nice, and as mentioned it rocks relatively speaking outside Abyssea, but we can't really keep up with a lot of jobs in sheer damage output. I wish they would just turn Rana into a crit WS, which if they did the mods right would not break SAM. Rana is otherwise only useful for making darkness or killing really weak stuff. Its TP mod sucks too.

My LS knows I prefer SAM to other jobs, so they ask me to come SAM if we have all staggers and healing duties otherwise covered. It is pretty fun to go in and spam WS's after all staggers have been hit, but I do a lot of standing around. I do most of my play duoing with my wife in Abyssea, which means I live on NIN/THF/MNK most of the time. I think the only way SAM really sees a resurgence to its old bandwagon-like status is if SE makes the 90+ content stagger/atma free.
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Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#11 Apr 08 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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JaxReborn wrote:
I still wish they would give SAM a crit WS. Fudo is nice, and as mentioned it rocks relatively speaking outside Abyssea, but we can't really keep up with a lot of jobs in sheer damage output.

Masa sam is probably the 1# DD outside of abyssea only occasionally being on par with war and monk as they can be better at times but nothing outrageous that you should pick them over sam if you prefer sam.
JaxReborn wrote:
My LS knows I prefer SAM to other jobs, so they ask me to come SAM if we have all staggers and healing duties otherwise covered. It is pretty fun to go in and spam WS's after all staggers have been hit, but I do a lot of standing around.

Theres no reason you have to stand around really, you have: jinpu, koki, cyclone,seraph strike, seraph blade, red lotus, raiden thrust, and earth crusher. You have 8/13 for procs, thats more than half.
JaxReborn wrote:
I think the only way SAM really sees a resurgence to its old bandwagon-like status is if SE makes the 90+ content stagger/atma free.

Theres probably only 4 reasons for the bandwagon on sam pre-abyssea.
1: If you truely enjoyed the samurai style of things(ie culture,you play sam on other games, you did first before know anything else)
2: Gekko mechanics, basically on anything with a high defense, and no attack buffs, gekko sam was probably the better way to go
3: Polearm sam, lets face it, gekko sam outside of hnm def mobs couldnt keep up with drk, war, drg with attack buffs unless you went polearm. Everyone loved colibri exp camps, so everyone was king on plm sam at that camp.
4: Everyone was doing it, so you did it too(the real bandwagons) w/o a real good reason, outside of popularity. No one will hate you for it, but if you dont try to atleast understand the jobs mechanics and gear it decently properly, they might.

I personally fall into cat. 1 and 2.


*note* not attacking you honestly, just giving you another look on things, esp the procs that you could be contributing on sam.

Edited, Apr 8th 2011 8:45pm by hitoseijuro
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#12 Apr 13 2011 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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I'm aware of the proc's on SAM, but all you need to cover all red proc's is a NIN and a WAR, and we always have one of each at events. I mean, yeah, I can run in and do my thing and save us 15 seconds or whatever it would take the WAR or NIN to find the proc, and hey, if I have TP before the WAR or NIN I do it. I still can't proc grellow at all unless I'm /NIN (which I am usually not) and that is only a 1/8 chance. Also, procing blue is certainly possible given time of day, but not always. I mean, its kind of inevitable you stand around some.
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Jacs of Leviathan
SAM, MNK, THF, NIN, SCH, DRK, BLU 90
Woodworking 100+3, Synergy 57
#13 May 09 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
2: Gekko mechanics, basically on anything with a high defense, and no attack buffs, gekko sam was probably the better way to go


This big time. There was massive hate heaped upon SAM's and the words "over powered" kept being thrown around, only by people who didn't understand the mechanics involved. Gekko has a low fTP multiplier but is guaranteed to have capped ratio or damn near capped. On anything bigger then an XP mob a SAM had the equivalent of 800~1000+ attack without using berserk, this counts for alot seeing as high level NM's nerf you on LCF. The downside to this is that no amount of buffs will raise the damage output of Gekko. It's more or less capped no matter how ~leet~ your shell is on BRD's and COR's. Considering most of the players do not read the forums and do not participate is mega elite link-shells, the easiest way to kill big things was to throw SAM's at it. A WAR / DRK / DRG / ect.. could outperform a SAM if they were provided buffs and the target NM had Dia II / III on it (you'd be surprised the number of BLM's that would insist of throwing our Bio II on everything). So while SAM's had an advantage in that they didn't need attack buffs, they also had a disadvantage in that those attack buffs did almost nothing for them.
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Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#14 May 09 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah all we needed aside from the standard haste spell was 2x March and a Dancers Haste Samba.

The same still applies but where as other jobs have had huge buffs in all departments, all we've really gotten is a solid 5HIT and for non-masa sam's, and a Hagun+1.

The job can still be a beast though especially during our 2hour or times when a massive amount of dmg needs to be dealt in a very short amount of time. SAM will be wanted again if it playes some kind of vital part in weakness trigering for Voidwatch, and maybe it'll give ppl a chance to see also that its not as bad as everyone claims it to be.

I think BRD's usage gets highly underated in abyssea. Many T3's in Hero's zones have large amounts of HP, and can have very fast attack speed double and triple attacking. The difference a BRD can make throwing in 2xMarch or March+mambo and elegy is huge, but ppl would still rather forget about the job. When I'm on nin with haste and 2xMArch the attack speed with the doubles/triples/quad's is just to fast so my nin looks like its just spazzing out but the HP is falling off those big mobs at a nice rate.
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