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#1 Apr 22 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Default
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Hi guys, my SAM is only 48 but the job is a TON of fun and I'm looking ahead at my gear options. I have enough money for a Hauby+1 OR a Hagun, and I'm wondering which one I should go for, or at least which I should go for first? Obviously I can wear the Hauby+1 first, but I'm not sure if I should drop the gil on it because I'm not sure if I'll have the gil for a Hagun when I reach 72. If SAM was the only job I had to gear for I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm planning on getting a few expensive pieces for my other jobs as well. On my Server, Hagun is 1.5M, Hauby+1 is 2.3M. My gut says prioritize the Hagun and put the Hauby on the waiting list, but I wondered what more experienced SAMs had to say.

Bear in mind my situation: Limbus is the only endgame I do, I have Shura pants and no current plans to get kitty's, and no plans for a Bushi or GK merits.
#2 Apr 22 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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Probably get the Hauby +1. If Limbus is the only real endgame you would do on it you could live with an Onimaru for a while and grab an Engetsuto. Work on a Tomoe and save for Hagun later.

Sorry I always end up forgetting something. Try and get Byakko's if you really enjoy the job. I mentioned the polearms because I use them more than my Hagun these days.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 2:43am by marleytiva
#3 Apr 22 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
2acc 1dex 2atk 1 STR from +1 to haub is fairly minor compared to gain from hagun, especially if you're going to be doing more sky for kitty pants I would definitely get hagun.
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#4 Apr 22 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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OyamaBlu wrote:
Hi guys, my SAM is only 48 but the job is a TON of fun and I'm looking ahead at my gear options. I have enough money for a Hauby+1 OR a Hagun, and I'm wondering which one I should go for, or at least which I should go for first? Obviously I can wear the Hauby+1 first, but I'm not sure if I should drop the gil on it because I'm not sure if I'll have the gil for a Hagun when I reach 72. If SAM was the only job I had to gear for I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm planning on getting a few expensive pieces for my other jobs as well. On my Server, Hagun is 1.5M, Hauby+1 is 2.3M. My gut says prioritize the Hagun and put the Hauby on the waiting list, but I wondered what more experienced SAMs had to say.

Bear in mind my situation: Limbus is the only endgame I do, I have Shura pants and no current plans to get kitty's, and no plans for a Bushi or GK merits.


It's a matter of opportunity cost really. Yes, a Samurai can get by using Onimaru, but you really have to look at what the trade off is to buying each over the other.

Hagun
-+19% Weapon skill damage over Onimaru

Hauby +1
-+2 acc
-+2 att
-+1 STR
-+1 DEX
= +2.75 acc
+2.75 att

For the purposes of this next part, we'll assume a SAM using NQ Haub and Onimaru, and assume the SAM has a 60-40 WS to TP damage ratio and has a 80% hit rate vs. a hypothetical mob.


Upgrade to Haub +1
+2.75 acc will increase your overall accuracy by about 1.5% (rounding here for simplicity). This means that your overall damage will increase because of the more accurate hits

(.60 + .40) * (81.5/80) = 1.01875 or a 1.875% increase in your overall damage.

Upgrade to Hagun
Saying that Samurai has a a 60-40 WS to Normal Attack damage ratio, that means that 60% of your damage will be boosted by Hagun's WS damage mod. We must also take into account the 5 accuracy that we lose from not using Onimaru, which leads to a loss of 2.5% off your hit rate

(.60 * 1.19) + .4 = 1.114
1.114 * (77.5/80) = 1.0791875 or a 7.91% damage increase



Obviously as you can see 7.91% > 1.875%. Haub+1 is really considered a later addition to a Samurai's gear set, while Hagun is a must-get as soon as you can afford/wear it. In addition, you must look at the prices on the gear:

Buying Hagun = 1.5M (Price of Hagun) - 45K (Price of Onimaru) = 1.455M
Buying Haub+1 = 2.3M (Price of Haub+1) - 90K (Price of Haub) = 2.21M

So to complete, these are your two scenarios:

Hagun: +7.91% damage, 755K
Haub+1: +1.87% damage

Hagun not only beats the Haub+1 for damage increase, but also puts a nice 755K into your pocket that you can use to save up for more gear, or even as a bankroll to eventually pay for that Haub+1.

tl:dr? Buy Hagun. Period.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 11:42am by FartaruOnSeraph

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 5:18pm by FartaruOnSeraph
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#5 Apr 22 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Ahmmm Oyama, what are those other jobs you speak of? Are they melee jobs that can wear Hauby, by any chance? ;)

Cuz like... Reading what you wrote, and taking some other stuff from the air, seems you barely ever would see yourself in a situation in which you'd be using (or needing) that Hagun.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 12:45pm by sbrubles
#6 Apr 22 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
+2.75 acc will increase your overall accuracy by about 1.5% (rounding here for simplicity).
Actual hit rate increase is less than 1% after accounting for Zanshin.


Haub+1 is a complete luxury piece for any job, Hagun is a necessity if you plan on doing anything above merits on SAM.


Also: People have been severely overvaluing polearm recently, your pDIF and acc need to be very high before you should consider switching for non-piercing mobs. Most players I see using polearm in merits even would be better off w/ Hagun, polearm needs proper support and gear or you will start sucking very fast, GK is more or less idiot proof especially if you're not willing to sink real gear/merits into SAM. The acc/ratio bonuses to YGK are too massive to ignore.

AlsoAlso: Even if you have to find a merc LS you should get kitty pants. They are a much bigger upgrade than haub+1 or Hagun.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 2:49pm by shintasama
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#7 Apr 22 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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256 posts
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
+2.75 acc will increase your overall accuracy by about 1.5% (rounding here for simplicity).
Actual hit rate increase is less than 1% after accounting for Zanshin.


/bow Professor Shinta, I was sure I forgot something somewhere and I thought that was the Onimaru latent accuracy.
____________________________
Paskil, @#%^ing DRK wrote:
WAR/WHM. Bradygames are @#%^ing prophets.

Turin the Malevolent wrote:
Why don't you read up on my nuts?
#8 Apr 22 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Default
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20 posts
Thanks guys, I'm gonna go with Hagun. My other jobs are BLU75 and MNK75, next up after SAM is gonna be SCH, COR or PLD (most likely SCH).

About the kitty pants:

[rant]

I don't care. Yes I know they are the last word in awesomeness, I don't have any arguments otherwise, but I might get them at some point, I might not. I have no intentions of joining a sky shell or actively seeking to merc them. Whatever, I honestly don't care. I almost never, ever join merit parties on any of my jobs, and I doubt I will on SAM. Merit parties make me want to vomit. I'm good at making gil and I like the things I do to make it, so I'm happy with AH gear, and I enjoy the game most by leveling different jobs and getting good gear for them with as little hassle as possible. I'm not aiming for absolute top of the line in everything, otherwise I'd do more endgame stuff. I still have some HQ staves to get, some more BLU gear, and more leveling to do. For my time and gil, Kitty pants are low on my list of things to do.

[/rant]

Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it. ^_^ I figured the Hauby+1 was more of a luxury item, but thought I'd get some other opinions.

#9 Apr 22 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
Can you at least grab ASA pants with Haste+acc or would it make more sense to use them for BLU/MNK?
____________________________
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
#10 Apr 22 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
20 posts
Hmm, that's a good question. I didn't buy any of the 3 mini-expansions, though I'm going to at some point soon. Though I consider BLU my main, I'm going after Homam so I probably won't need ASA legs for it, and my Monk is mostly retired so I'd probably prioritize SAM. I'll have to look into it, but that's certainly a viable option.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 6:36pm by OyamaBlu
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