Why do you have to tell people these things...Follow

Polearm for SAM on birds.

Why can't we keep this a secret?

I'm sick of partying with SAM/NINs like this:



With melee stats like this:

Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
Damiero               19782   61.45 %    252/204   55.26 %    23/125    72.28     19   115/203  154.74    7.54 %

And penta stats like this:

Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
Damiero                     12411    38.55 %      45/0   100.00 %      61/551   275.80 
 - Penta Thrust             12411   100.00 %      45/0   100.00 %      61/551   275.80

It hurts my soul.





Edited, Mar 10th 2010 5:53pm by bsphil

Eh, just imagine how bad it would have been with a, most likely, Shinsoku or something terrible like that.

Probably better. Even with soboro I could average way more WS damage than that.

I'm trying to figure out if that's a TP or WS set (god forbid, it's probably full-timed)

Such a waste of some good gear either way. At least... he has... arrows...?

Remember when I said "I'd rather see people stick with GK vs birds than do polearm wrong"?

yeah?



yeah.

i was wondering y askar body was looked down upon so much. i currently use it on sam/war with polearm with crab sushi (cuz in another post bout my penta build i was told sushi would be best with my setup). askar body gives my 5 hit 2% extra DA putting it at 19% in tp gear, and my acc sits around 90-92%, is that extra acc from hauby +1 really worth dropping 5 hit?

Accounting for zanshin, if you can get more than ~2.5% acc (93.5%->95%) you should go with acc.

Umm using Askar over Hauby .. but using Cuch over Foragers?

Try the rose stap option, looking at your gear you shouldn't ever have to worry about 1~2 hit penta's.

And this (OP) is why I am always cautioning people about using PLM. Without the proper gear it fails to GKT, even something like Oni. Of course once you got the bling bling gears, then rock it.

That melee accuracy (well, the lack of it) kinda takes the breath away. Not even crab sushi can fix that much of a deficit...

Did this SAM have capped polearm for Lv.74? I hate it when people use merit/exp parties to skill up or unlock WS latent weapons. /sigh

soniamdisappoint.jpg

Well, there is less Accuracy gear available in the 40s that is of comparable power with options in the 60s.

not only does sushi get more powerful as you level (since hit rate is not ACC / EVA but rather something closer to ACC - EVA [with some other subtraction thrown in]), but the game just naturally scales so that VT EVAs are lower relative to your ACC than earlier in the game. why? i don't know. but that's obviously why hit rate is always like 50% in the dunes. will it stay true at level 99? no one can answer that.

The problem with non A rank weapons and accuracy is that after 60 the difference between them gets bigger and bigger. Prior to 6 its 3 points per level, after 60 its 6 points per level. The game is balanced at 75 through gear and the fact we seem to prefer fighting weak-a$$ birds. But I can almost guarantee SE won't be creating another series of monsters higher up that are as weak as colibri, possibly something with low def/evd but some sort of nasty attack to counter it. The difference between A and B at 99 is over 60 points. B- has it even worse.

Working backwards (and assuming he wasn't using food):

He's 40% below cap, so 80 acc below ~400, or about 320.

He has 49 acc in gear (assuming Headlong Belt since no Rajas), so 271 base.

Assuming human (race not specified) gives 69+12 dex, for +60 acc. Now down to 211 base.

211 base acc would be ~212 skill. 212 skill is cap for level 66. Yay.


Here, have a happy sam/drg parse (with recent gear revisions I reached a true 5-hit, and wanted to play around with it; no polearm merits), along with my own encounter with pain (osode/relic pants mnk):

Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
*mnk/nin              23425   75.69 %    354/235   60.10 %     21/82    57.68     55    83/144  112.33   15.54 % 
Motenten              28280   33.09 %     231/16   93.52 %    55/155   112.73     22   166/270  214.55    9.52 % 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
*mnk/nin                     7419    23.97 %      16/0   100.00 %     229/683   463.69 
 - Asuran Fists              2867    38.64 %       7/0   100.00 %     229/636   409.57 
 - Howling Fist              4552    61.36 %       9/0   100.00 %     294/683   505.78 
Motenten                    51738    60.54 %      71/0   100.00 %     90/1014   728.70 
 - Penta Thrust             51738   100.00 %      71/0   100.00 %     90/1014   728.70 

@BiggHowie's gear:

TP gear is:

tomoe/pole/x/tiphia
askar/PCA/minuet/brutal
askar/dusk/iota/rajas
cuch/swift/byakko/usu

Acc:
Assuming no merits
236 @skill
5+2+10+3+3+5+4+7=39
dex @hume sam/war=68
+4+3+5+4+15=99 == 74 acc
Total: 349

Crab sushi: +13% = +45
Total: 394

Hit rate = 93%/88%

Store TP: 25+10+5+1+5+7 = 53 == 19.8 TP/hit

Sufficient for fake 5-hit. 5-hit lost on any Feather Tickle.

DA rate: 10% + 5% + 2% + 2% = 19%

Vs 81s:
Hits per round:
.81 * 93% + (.81 * 7% * 45% * 95%) = 0.77753925
2 * .19 * 93% = 0.3534
Total: 1.13093925 hits / round


Vs 82s:
Hits per round:
.81 * 88% + (.81 * 12% * 45% * 95%) = 0.754353
2 * .19 * 88% = 0.3344
Total: 1.088753 hits / round


Avg hits per round: 1.1098



Replace pole + askar with rose + hauby+1:


Acc:
Assuming no merits
236 @skill
5+2+10+3+3+5+4+7+12=51
dex @hume sam/war=68
+4+3+5+4+15+6=105 == 78 acc
Total: 365

Crab sushi: +13% = +47
Total: 412

In excess by 5. Swap PCA to CC to keep same total Store TP and gain 3 str.

Hit rate = 95%/95%

Store TP: 25+10+4+1+1+5+7 = 53 == 19.8 TP/hit

Sufficient for fake 5-hit. 5-hit lost on any Feather Tickle.

DA rate: 10% + 5% = 15%

Vs 81s & 82s:
Hits per round:
.85 * 95% + (.85 * 5% * 45% * 95%) = 0.82566875
2 * .15 * 95% = 0.285
Total: 1.1107 hits / round


Edit: Made a mistake and forgot one of the Zanshin factors. Hauby is ahead by 0.08% (ie: essentially tied).


Given a 33/67 melee/weaponskill split, the extra 4 str gains about 0.6% total damage. Swapping Cuch for Foragers instead of PCC for CC ends up with Hauby build being about 1.5% ahead.

Using Pole Grip with Hauby instead of Rose Grip means you need 5/5 hits from Penta to keep fake 5-hit. The instances where those miss will almost certainly end up with it being worse overall than Rose Grip.


Edited, Mar 17th 2010 3:58am by Kinematics

Based on most recent growth rate, @99 GK & Pole should be 79 skill apart (~35.5% acc, currently 36 skill/16%acc), whether that's a impossible to make up for difference or not is up to devs. +Acc might be completely worthless for A+ weapons at 99, making B- reasonable/attractive to use, or they could just completely change the rate of skill gain for the next 24 levels.
@#%^ing over 5 other people doing something that he should take care of on his own time is whats sad.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 1:39pm by shintasama

5x the price for 115 more delay doesnt make sense to anyone trying to skill up. i agree that engetsuto is a better polearm and does more dmg, but that wasn't what this guy was trying to accomplish with his gear set. he was trying to get skillups, plain and simple.

they should have just kicked him out of the party or told him to use a gkatana but instead bsphil decided to make a blanket statement about any sam using a polearm and everyone immediately jumped to "omg what a noob! look at those enkidu hands, this guy is an idiot! lol at his penta thrust, thats just pathetic"

what gear do you use to skill up? how high are your weaponskills while you are doing it?


btw on my server IRlance is 15-20k while engetsuto is 180-200k.

but thats just it, he wasnt gearing properly for a polearm build because he was gearing for skilling up. think of it this way: once he gets his polearm capped he would probably wear appropriate gear, but until then acc all the way.

And /WAR will get aggressor, should soften a bit more the impact of the skill difference at that level when using PLM. Of course, there's always the possibility that GKT will get a WS so über that SAMs won't use PLM anymore tho.

I did. I wasn't the party leader. He d/c'd. Then the other DD d/c'd, so it was just me and that SAM, so I left.

Not sure I've got this logic figured out, seems to me like you're saying if someone is fully skilled up and has some appropriate gear but has made mistakes, we should mock them and feel good about ourselves.

But, if they're totally and completely gimp as @#%^ to the point of being nearly 10 levels behind in skill it's unfair and childish to mock them?

Since when did a str ring and swift belt count as good skill up gear btw? You can be the white knight if you want but the truth is that guy is being disrespectful to the other 5 members of his pt and deserved mocking, the only person who gives a sh*t if he's skilling up seems to be you. I'm sure most of us figured out that's what he's doing, we just don't care, gimp in a party is gimp. Most people don't expect relics when we party but skilling up with a sub par weapon is out of order.

Honestly... it's common knowledge that the phrase "merit party" is a generic term for the typical merit party model in the 72~75 level range. Whether or not people are actually acquiring merit points in said party, or even capable thereof, is completely irrelevant.

You guys have it easy. I once partied with a SAM skilling up polearm with an unlocked gondo and using double thrust. I swear to Jesus, I'm not even kidding. I left the party in about .3 seconds after the second double thrust.

Lots of sh*tty SAMs out there, no doubt. But even the sh*tty ones sometimes try. This is just plain lazy.

Sorry, I meant locked* gondo. Since I confronted him about it and everything before leaving. No clue why I said unlocked.

SAM's tend to do most of their damage through WS, this goes double for PLM builds that rely on high Penta-spam numbers. For SAM you want the highest damage PLM you can possibly get your hands on.

maybe blackout his name or something.
you could be ruining the guy's ffxi life.